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Digital Leica M8 / M8.2 / M9 / M-E /Mono / M10 aka "M" Discussions about the Leica M8 /M 8.2 / M9 / M9-P/ M-E / M Monochrom / M10 aka "M": Leica digital M mount rangefinder cameras. Naming the new digital M the "Leica M" is VERY unfortunate as it will only confuse newbies with other Leica M cameras of the the past. Happily there is room for confusion with only the past 59 years of Leica M production ... since Leica introduced the Leica M system in 1953. All Hail for the Leica Marketing Department learning Leica M history!

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Old 02-20-2012   #51
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People need to remember that I spent two and a half years with an M8 and really liked the camera aside from the crop factor and the IR problem. I'm quite comfortable with the idea of a digital M
And you have the money for the M9. Just buy one.
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Old 02-21-2012   #52
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The one thing that bothers me about this line of thought is that you've basically projecting expectations into camera after camera. Now it's the M9 and it sounds a bit like it's just another iteration. It doesn't help that RFFers as a whole are always ready to support this line of thought.

It would be sad to see you get an M9, only to then post here how you're not really happy with this one either, like what happened with the X100.
'Camera after camera' I'm mystified by that comment!

In the last two years I've bought one major photography item and that was my D700 and a couple of lenses ... which I'm totally satisfied with in the way it performs in the environment it was bought for. (work)

The X100 was a gift from this forum and when I realised it didn't really suit my style of shooting it was passed on to Paulfish with the agreement of RFF members that it was the correct thing to do. I had always said that if the camera didn't suit me this would be the scenario.

I've been really struggling for money over the last two or three years and have had to sell alot of photography gear to survive financially. Six months ago my father passed away and I was left a small sum of money of which I have spent very little so far ... I did get an F6 because it was a camera I've always wanted to own but even that is getting little use because of the lack of time to use film these days. I can afford the M9 if I choose to go that way and that is a privilege I never expected to experience ... thanks for attempting to make me feel guilty about it!

The people in this thread (as I expected) have offered balanced and sound advice IMO ... so I don't really see what your problem is there either.
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Old 02-21-2012   #53
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Hi Keith,

Given your collection of lenses and desire for the FFE (Full Frame Experience!), I'd suggest that the M9 would suit you handsomely. $5500 might be a lot of money. Of course it is. And yet I shelled out AUD$9300 to get one near the beginning of 2010. I remember that blisteringly hot summer's day when I placed the M9 on the car seat for what seemed an interminably long drive back home!

Now I look back on that, I am still a bit perturbed that I spent that much on a camera body! But the images I have been able to take with it please me endlessly. I went to Japan with the M9 for three weeks and took scandalous numbers of photos, many of which I treasure. I use it almost every day and often have it stowed in my shoulder bag, even if it's just a day at the office.

I love the look of film, but I find the immediacy and ease of digital to be far above that of film. If you don't have the time to develop and scan your work, and that fear is cutting into your personal shooting, an M9 just might be the ticket for you. BUT you must allow yourself a 'digital only' time for a good several months, or at least keep your film usage down as much as possible. This is to balance the amount of money you'd spend on a M9 with what you would have spent on film.

The M10 is an unknown. Who knows what bugaboos lie in its as-yet unrevealed depths? I seem to recall a Leica rep saying that the M10 is going to be a more of an evolutionary step, than revolutionary. I would not expect much more than better high ISO and improved functions. And the price will be bananas. I have no plans whatsoever to buy a M10. I am very happy with my M9 and will continue to be for a good many years. I know its strengths and weaknesses and I'm satisfied with the current package.

If I could go back in time and buy a gently used M9 for $5500 I would absolutely jump at it.
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Old 02-21-2012   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
'Camera after camera' I'm mystified by that comment!

In the last two years I've bought one major photography item and that was my D700 and a couple of lenses ... which I'm totally satisfied with in the way it performs in the environment it was bought for. (work)

The X100 was a gift from this forum and when I realised it didn't really suit my style of shooting it was passed on to Paulfish with the agreement of RFF members that it was the correct thing to do. I had always said that if the camera didn't suit me this would be the scenario.

I've been really struggling for money over the last two or three years and have had to sell alot of photography gear to survive financially. Six months ago my father passed away and I was left a small sum of money of which I have spent very little so far ... I did get an F6 because it was a camera I've always wanted to own but even that is getting little use because of the lack of time to use film these days. I can afford the M9 if I choose to go that way and that is a privilege I never expected to experience ... thanks for attempting to make me feel guilty about it!

The people in this thread (as I expected) have offered balanced and sound advice IMO ... so I don't really see what your problem is there either.
The "camera after camera" comment refers to the quoted bit, together with how you spoke about your former M8 in this thread, some comments you made elsewhere on your F6 purchase, and the comments about the X100 that started the support drive here on RFF in which I participated. You sound like you are searching for something in cameras and haven't really found it.

Searching for the right camera is fine with me and maybe you'll find it with the M9. But maybe you won't. I think you take fine pictures already and I would be sad to have you find out that that one isn't the thing either. But I do think it's a bit inappropriate after all to accuse me of trying to make you feel guilty. I certainly didn't mean to offend you, but why are you so easily offended by a simple thing like that?
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Old 02-21-2012   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rxmd View Post
The "camera after camera" comment refers to the quoted bit, together with how you spoke about your former M8 in this thread, some comments you made elsewhere on your F6 purchase, and the comments about the X100 that started the support drive here on RFF in which I participated. You sound like you are searching for something in cameras and haven't really found it.

Searching for the right camera is fine with me and maybe you'll find it with the M9. But maybe you won't. I think you take fine pictures already and I would be sad to have you find out that that one isn't the thing either. But I do think it's a bit inappropriate after all to accuse me of trying to make you feel guilty. I certainly didn't mean to offend you, but why are you so easily offended by a simple thing like that?
I aplogise for over reacting to that ... I guess I'm a little sensitive at benefiting from the death of my father in the form of a camera or any luxury item. My problem not yours!

I may or may not fit with the M9 as you say ... I do know I generally produce better output with a small uncomplicated camera and I'm quite comfortable with going digital until such time as I can organise my time a little better. That could be a year or two away at the moment though!

And I sincerely appreciated your support regarding the X100 ... it's a pity it didn't really work out for me.
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Old 02-21-2012   #56
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Wow Keith, I think a lot of us are struggling with this (OK, I am). Recently I checked out the Pentax K-5 (gasp) as it is a very robust system, water resistant and has some really cool small primes as well as WR lenses. Could I be in love? With the demise of local labs and my 15 year absence from the darkroom, it pains me to even consider walking away (or selling off my M mounts and/or Nikkor manuals) from my stuff. Since I can not afford considering the M9 (I was downsized last December). I am okay with auto focus (I did not think I would be) but not focus peaking and the like for manual.
Go with the K-5 and it's subculture or stay with my film bodies and my Ricoh GX200? I know I will probably stay as is, so the beat goes on.....
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Old 02-21-2012   #57
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I was in this position last year. I decided to go for the M9 and I've never regretted it one bit. In fact, it is nice to just always be content with your camera body... knowing you got the camera that really want to use day in, day out. That said, it was crazy $ and I may not ever do it again. Luckily, Fuji seems to be a great back-up plan.
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Old 02-21-2012   #58
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I was in this position last year. I decided to go for the M9 and I've never regretted it one bit. In fact, it is nice to just always be content with your camera body... knowing you got the camera that really want to use day in, day out. That said, it was crazy $ and I may not ever do it again. Luckily, Fuji seems to be a great back-up plan.

M9 desire aside ... thanks for your thoughts/words and to Akiva as well.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds themselves in this dilemma ... it's tough because I truly love using film ... but I also like taking photographs and a change of medium is just that ... not the end of photography!
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Old 02-21-2012   #59
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Keith,

Its your life and your money. Do what will make you happy
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Old 02-21-2012   #60
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Keith, strictly for what it's worth, our personal connection to the camera makes a difference; it's not just some object of utility only. It is a tool, and we love our tools. The connection of user to tool is important in producing the result. And, the result is two-fold, it's both the images and the experience.

If the M9 is revving your engine, then go for it.

Not for everyone. Not for me, for example, but if it's for you, then go for it.

Of course, make sure it will work for you in all respects, but you obviously know how to work that through.
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Old 02-23-2012   #61
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Get the M9. You will enjoy using it. Instead of developing film, you'll be "developing" your digital photography skills.
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Get the 5N
Old 02-23-2012   #62
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Get the 5N

The obvious answer is the Sony NEX 5N. I got one with the Hawk's factory M-mount converter. Shoot all of your M glass on it and get the NEX 16mm F2.8 for those wide shots. So tiny, you just wear it on your belt with a carabiner clip and you'll take it with you everywhere. Shoot it Rolleiflex style or get the viewfinder and shoot rangefinder style.


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Old 02-23-2012   #63
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I'm not sure an EVF, even a really good one like this, can be called rangefinder style. You are still looking at a miniature TV screen.
Like watching the telly is not looking out of the window.
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Old 02-23-2012   #64
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$$$ vs compromises?

Keith: There is only one digital RF worth the switch from film.

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Old 02-24-2012   #65
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Boy that does sounds easy...now for the price tag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gid View Post
This is not difficult.

You have M mount lenses that you like to use; you prefer the DoF from full frame; you like using RFs; you don't have time for film; you don't want to lug a large camera around.

There is only one camera that fits the bill - the M9. You can afford it, so just do it and start enjoying your recreational photography again. I look forward to seeing images from your m9 in the near future
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Old 02-24-2012   #66
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I for one, am willing to pay $5k-6k for something that brings me so much pleasure in my life.
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Old 02-24-2012   #67
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The obvious answer is the Sony NEX 5N.
Obvious? I'm not so sure about that.
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Old 02-24-2012   #68
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The decision matrix for this pursuit is easy:

Quote:
Want full frame digital? Yes.
Want rangefinder focus and compose? Yes.
Want a camera that can mount your existing M lenses? Yes.

-> Leica M9
Or...

Quote:
Want full frame digital? Maybe.
Want rangefinder focus and compose? Maybe. Open to electronic finders? Maybe.
Want a camera that can mount your existing M lenses? Yes.

-> Leica M9 (the only full frame alternative)
-> Maybe, just maybe, another maker comes out with a FF camera that can take M lenses but may not be rangefinder focused.

Crop choices:
-> Leica M8
-> Sony NEX, with reservations with respect to certain lenses
-> Ricoh GXR with M Mount camera module, with no lens choice reservations at all
-> Fuji XPro-1, with TBA M mount adapter from Fuji (no details yet), may have no reservations but so far it unknown how wide angle M lenses will fare on this camera. Worth watching.
-> Any other short back focal length camera (< 28mm) that has available adapters for M-??? mount, details to be discussed.
Or look at things another way:

Quote:
Want a camera that can mount your M mount RF lenses? Yes.
Want to be able to mount other lenses? Yes.
Want to be able to accurately focus any lens from macro to extreme telephoto? Yes.

-> Practically speaking, no Leica | Zeiss | CV M camera film or digital
-> But many and various other cameras, so far only crop cameras, fit the bill today.
Or maybe some other motivation drives you?

Quote:
Want a M lens compatible camera to support video? Yes.

-> No M camera
-> Many others.
There are so many way of slicing and dicing to come up with permutations but if full frame *and* M lens compatibility, today, is important to you then there is only one choice. M9. Or stick with film.

Making a move to digital is like Keith says, embracing a new medium. Maybe embracing a
crop camera isn't too tough a pill to swallow. There are some benefits to the live view / electronic finder cameras.

Personally I'm in the "use what is necessary and sufficient camp" while I wait for the potential for a compact full frame M lens compatible digital camera to arrive on the scene.

It will happen. I think. Hopefully. Probably. Given the trends in Japan it seems likely at least.

What is less certain is whether the available choices in FF compacts allow me to mount my M lenses natively or via adapters? That isn't a given but there is reason to hope for this outcome.

In the meantime the Ricoh GXR allows me to use my M lenses, now, on a worth digital camera. That they have different effective fields of view on the 1.5 crop isn't troubling me much at all. If I really need the ZM18 to be an 18mm lens I can always shoot a roll of film to satisfy that itch.
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Old 02-24-2012   #69
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"Willing" and "able" are indeed very far apart at times.

As a full-time graduate student, the M9 is prohibitive. And to be honest, even if I could afford it, I would be conscious of the price tag all the time. Every nick, scratch or bump would concern me; every time I take it out to shoot after dark, in unsavory neighborhoods, or anywhere for that matter, I would be reminded that I am holding thousands of dollars of equipment. I fear I'd leave it at home rather than risk losing my investment...

Maybe I'm strange, but nobody else has raised this point that I have seen.

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I for one, am willing to pay $5k-6k for something that brings me so much pleasure in my life.
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Old 02-24-2012   #70
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Keith, I think you'll like the M9. It's everything a camera should be minus whatever you do to it to make an image… if that makes sense. Very little gets in the M9's way of making an image, unlike so many of these baby plastic wanna-be cameras.

I too have a D700, love the thing but honestly prefer the M9. And that's saying a lot. While the lowlight ability of the D700 is good, the M9 files are just fine. If anything we have gotten lazy with the aid of high ISO's. Personally I prefer the color of the M9, maybe not out of the camera but adjusted, yes. I've taken the M9 and D700 out to shoot at the same time but for some reason prefer the Leica images and I'm using Nikon's good glass (24/1.4 G, 35/1.4 G, 50/1.4 G and 108/1.8 AIS).

If you are patient I'd wait for this Fall to see what Leica throws us. M9 prices should decrease accordingly. Given your itch, ignore all the "me", "my" and "I" comments here and run with what your heart says.

Got the monetary means today? Go for it. You live once.
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Old 02-24-2012   #71
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chasing the digital IQ, I'd go with N/C FX and keep shooting some films on M7/P
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Old 02-24-2012   #72
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Keith....if photography is your passion and the D700 doesn't enhance that passion in your personal photography just get the M9.

I know you love film, but shooting film probably feels like a burden on you at the moment because you are time poor, so just get the M9.

What's the worse that can happen?

Yeah it's a lot of money blah, blah, blah...but if you have the means at the moment and it gets you out shooting and more importantly, enjoying your shooting, it's worth every cent imo.

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Old 02-24-2012   #73
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And if you don't like it, sell it on. There's still a market for them. And if you do like it and Leica do put out an M10, it won't make the M9 a bad camera all of a sudden.
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Old 02-25-2012   #74
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What Ezzie said.

Keith, if you don't, you'll wish you did.
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Old 02-26-2012   #75
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I'm pretty keen I have to say ... I am taking my time here though and trying not to be impulsive!

There seems to be a few low milage examples cropping up on Oz eBay ... I would prefer not to buy from OS due to the risks of postage etc. A local purchase has more appeal for me.

This looked OK and I was quite tempted for a while.
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