Leica M3/M4 or Zeiss?

[vegard_dino]

Hello all.

I am new here and hope, no need, some help.

I am using a Pentax SLR from -67, and I like it.
The look and feel of an vintage camera is something that makes me smile.

So, now I have started to think about more cameras, a rangefinder is on my mind.
But, witch model, maker to go for? Leica, Zeiss?
How about service on these, have been told some models needs lots of adjusting, so...maybe not for an amateur like me.(?)

All help/tip is welcome.

A good afternoon all.

[kanzlr]

What do you want to do?

Auto Exposure cameras like the Zeiss Ikon or Hexar RF are convenient. IF you want a light meter built in, I would get one of these two. If not, a Leica M4.

but again, what do you want to do?

[lam]

Which Zeiss? Zeiss Ikon? I know people who swear by them.
Some people, don't like the sound they produce (louder than M's)

Zeiss Ikon Pros:
- Larger viewfinder
- Aperture Priority metering (AE mode)
- Faster maximum shutter speed 1/2000th vs 1/1000th of Leica M's
- Newer build

Both shouldn't need that much maintenance given that it was taken care of to begin with.
Both can be adjusted and serviced in the same time frame and relatively the same cost.

Leica M advantages:
- Quieter operation
- It's a Leica?
- Older, more vintage look * cause it is vintage

If you're talking Contax Rangefinders with Zeiss glass, that's a different story and that's something I haven't got much experience with. Also Nikon Rangefinder systems too.

[mfogiel]

There are a few things that need to be said:
- Leica factor
Leicas have that special tactile feel, which makes them lovable. If you want to really bond with your camera, get a Leica, if you only want a very good rangefinder, there are more choices
- Rangefinder scope
The rangefinders, to be quite frank, excel between 28 and 50mm - for wider lenses the fast and easy framing becomes a problem, for longer lenses, seeing the subject becomes a problem, to sum up: do you want to shoot in this range?
- AE yes or not
While there are fanatics of meterless cameras, or cameras with uncoupled lightmeter, if you want a rangefinder to get the best out of street, you should really look for an AE model, i.e M7, Zeiss Ikon, Bessa RxA or Hexar RF.
- Repairs and maintenence
If you want a camera for longer haul, get a Leica - I am pretty sure they will still be serviced a long time from today

[thegman]

There are a few reasons to prefer a Leica to a Zeiss and vice versa, but for me, the big difference is aperture priority. If you want to shoot with a modern meter for stuff like slide film, Zeiss Ikon is excellent.

Whilst the Ikon is a beautiful camera, I don't think it's quite up there with Leica M3 style beauty, so if that matters to use, then the M3 is of course well worth a look.

For other considerations. Bear in mind the widest lens frame lines the M3 has is 50mm. For a 50mm lens, the M3 is great, any wider, I'd look elsewhere. For Ikon, it's best lines are the 35mm I'd say.

I'd just ask yourself, how much modern stuff do you want? If you want the creature comforts of AE, easy film loading, sparkling huge finder, the ability to see what film is loaded, then I'd get an Ikon. Otherwise, the classic appeal of a Leica would snare me.

[Monochrom]

Hi, i´d suggest you a bessa r type, it´s not expensive, it has AE there are those with wide angles viewfinders and with more normal viewfinders.
It doesn´t have the built quality of the leicas but´s well done!!!

As you asked the leicas are great cameras the m3 has two versions, one with double action advance lever and another "newer" with single action advance lever, both have framelines for 50, 90 and 135 mm lenses...

Then M2 onwards have 35mm framlines built in....from m6 on it´s added the 28mm FL...

Hexar is fantastic but´s a brick, it has lot´s of thing to make the experience very comfortable but´s too heavy for my needs.

Zeiss Ikon ZI is superb, expensive and not so well made...anyway it´has the best viewfinder out there...it´s lightweight...

Welcome to RF world you´ll suffer from syndrome quite soon...

Cheers!

[vegard_dino]

Hello and thank you all for the information.

First, what I want to do,
- To use the camera for landscape, nature photos.
- Some groupe photos.
- Just for fun, to take a photo of something I like.

Modern things, easy film loading and so, no, I like to try without as much I can.

[Joakim Målare]

If you wear glasses, you would be the most comfortable with a Zeiss Ikon. I have non-flexible glasses and I can't use my M3 for 50, so it became my 90 mm camera. But it's really not with me, it just sits in the closet. The Zeiss is that good! Especially when you get over the Leica-myth...

[thegman]

Originally Posted by vegard_dino

Hello and thank you all for the information.

First, what I want to do,
- To use the camera for landscape, nature photos.
- Some groupe photos.
- Just for fun, to take a photo of something I like.

Modern things, easy film loading and so, no, I like to try without as much I can.

Sounds like a Leica will do you just fine, just think about what lens(es) you will want, and base your decision on that. Want a 35mm lens? Maybe a Leica M2 is for you, want 28mm? Maybe something else. 50mm only? M3 is great.

Take a look at the screw mount Leicas too, cheaper, very pretty, and smaller too.

[SolaresLarrave]

Leica and easy film loading? Don't go together. There's a learning curve about getting used to follow the manufacturer's directions about how to load film in a Leica. Our minds play games, we want to make sure it's done correctly... and we screw up. At least that was my case. I had to learn to follow clearly written directions and tell my brain to shut up. Also, I had to practice.

I think a Zeiss Ikon is the best match for your needs. Or a Bessa (don't know which model would be). Best of luck!

[vegard_dino]

Thanks for the reply`s.

Joakim Målare, can I ask what Zeiss Ikon you have?
Oh, I do not wear glasses..Yet.....

What lens, well thinking of a 50mm.

Thanks for helping.

[Joakim Målare]

Originally Posted by vegard_dino

...can I ask what Zeiss Ikon you have?

Sorry about the late reply.

Most people talking about the Zeiss Ikon and it's great viewfinder refer to the latest Ikon produced. The naming of the camera is a little unfortunate (clumsy) as there are many Zeiss Ikons from the past already. The new one is therefore precised as the "ZI", with "ZM" lenses if you wan't the Zeiss brand mounted. Any M-mount lens will do of course, or LTM/LSM (thread/screw mount) with adapter. There is also the ZI SW (super wide), but it doesn't have a viewfinder. You use external viewfinders for each lens on that one. This is probably old info for you - I'm not sure what you asked for or how familiar you are with the ZI, so I typed it all out to make sure.

Anyway, I have the exact same setup as the first picture on this page:
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...er/zeiss-.html

That's an excellent review. Everything you read there is true.

Good luck!

[jonmanjiro]

Originally Posted by vegard_dino

The look and feel of an vintage camera is something that makes me smile.

So, now I have started to think about more cameras, a rangefinder is on my mind.
But, witch model, maker to go for? Leica, Zeiss?

With regard to Leica, the Leica M3 has a fantastic finder for a 50mm lens.

With regard to Zeiss...

Originally Posted by vegard_dino

Modern things, easy film loading and so, no,
I like to try without as much I can.

And reading this comment as meaning you don't want modern conveniences...

I think this one will make you smile...


Much more than this one.

[Frontman]

You might as well get a Leica. If you do get a Zeiss or a Bessa, you will only want an M even more, so save yourself the trouble and jump in with both feet.

[Roger Hicks]

My wife prefers the ZI; I prefer an M. It's pretty intensely personal.

Cheers,

R.

[irishimage]

Testimony to a Leica.
Has just finished servicing a 1937 Leica IIIa.
Still in Excellent working order both mechanics and optics in perfect condition considering its 76 years age.
All speeds inc slow speed range in good working order & reasonably accurate.
Camera has signs of very heavy use,was not a collectors or left on the shelf somewhere.

M3-DS early version double stroke 1954/5 would recommend to you as has the same quality of mechanics and build as the thread mount Barnacks.

Noel

[mfogiel]

"First, what I want to do,
- To use the camera for landscape, nature photos.
- Some groupe photos.
- Just for fun, to take a photo of something I like."

You want a camera, with 28, 35 and 50mm framelines, and without a meter. Leica M4P is the best bet for you.