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Is there much difference between M4-2 and M4-P
Old 03-30-2016   #1
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Is there much difference between M4-2 and M4-P

Sorry if this has been asked before or indeed is to 'simple' to be asked, 'is there any difference in build quality, reliability etc' between the M4-2 and M4-P, thanks in advance for any help
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Differences between M4-2 and M4-P
Old 03-30-2016   #2
Tom R
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Differences between M4-2 and M4-P

From my understanding (and I've used M4-Ps for many years), these were inexpensive units built in Canada (for the most part) to serve people who were not interested in "collectable" cameras, but needed a dependable workhorse for daily use.

I believe that the only difference between these two models is the finder in the P model includes 28mm, whereas the 4-2 did not ... but, perhaps someone else can confirm this ---again, I only used (and continue to use) the M4-P.

I recently had one of my M4-Ps CLA'ed and the feedback, after a decade of use. The only issues, other than wear and tear was it needed a new brake and some of the shudder speeds were slightly off. Now that's pretty good, considering that these are affordable and allow me to use a range of Leica glass that I have acquired over these so many years ...

TR
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Old 03-30-2016   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom R View Post
From my understanding (and I've used M4-Ps for many years), these were inexpensive units built in Canada (for the most part) to serve people who were not interested in "collectable" cameras, but needed a dependable workhorse for daily use.

I believe that the only difference between these two models is the finder in the P model includes 28mm, whereas the 4-2 did not ... but, perhaps someone else can confirm this ---again, I only used (and continue to use) the M4-P.

I recently had one of my M4-Ps CLA'ed and the feedback, after a decade of use. The only issues, other than wear and tear was it needed a new brake and some of the shudder speeds were slightly off. Now that's pretty good, considering that these are affordable and allow me to use a range of Leica glass that I have acquired over these so many years ...

TR

many thanks for the very informative reply, can l ask, 'do you find the finder frame lines cluttered'?
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Old 03-30-2016   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helenhill View Post
I Love M4-2's ... nevee had any issues
even though People love to carry on about cheaper parts, blah, blah,blah

The Big Diferrence is in the Framelines...
I like BIG, Clear Framelines, not shared
like they do on the M4-P and M6 which share 28/90, 35/135, 50/75
The M4-2 has BIG 35 and 50 Framelines
because it does not have 28mm & 75mm
many thanks helen, looks like l will have to keep an eye out for a M4-2
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Old 03-30-2016   #5
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Another difference I think (easily checked by looking at the outside of the main viewfinder window - is that the top of the M4-P was zinc (like the M6) while most of the M4-2's were brass., If the glass of the viewfinder is flush with the top - it's zinc, if recessed - brass.
Even though I use an M6 - yes I find the viewfinder cluttered with 28 and 75mm framelines - much prefer the M4-2, M4 and M2 finders
All that said - the ever-helpful and knowledgeable Tom A will fill you in I'm sure
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Old 03-30-2016   #6
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Where are many old stories, but by now the only practical difference to consider in actual use is VF difference.
Where is also difference how camera looks if you compare them side by side and by holding in hands and looking closely.
To me it is: "Want 28mm lens without external VF - M4-P. Like 50mm and black primes - M4-2."
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Old 03-30-2016   #7
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I have both... and enjoy using them.

The M4-2 is a nice, utilitarian camera. It's a stripped down Leica M4 according to some (and look for a weird thread about the M4-2 in this forum, full of information that debunks some myths about this camera). The M4-P was supposed to be "professional" (hence the P), and it's just about the same thing with only two additions: 28mm framelines and a red dot on the front. Other than that... they're both excellent cameras that can be had for very reasonable prices.

There you go!

EDIT: I typed my reply without reading the previous comments... and they're all right about the top plates material, recessed VF windows, and framelines being less cluttered in the M4-2. But then, again, you can ignore the additional framelines or use them to your advantage.
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Old 03-30-2016   #8
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The M4-2 has the following viewfinder frame lines: 35mm, 50mm, 90mm and 135mm. Later models of the M4-2 added 28mm and 75mm lines. The M4-2 production bodies were made in black chrome only; a few were made in silver chrome with matching silver chrome lenses. Only a few were made with the circular red Leitz logo.

The M4-P has 28mm through 135mm frame lines. Black chrome was the standard finish, but a fair number were made with the silver chrome finish. The M4-P has the red Leitz logo as a standard marking in both black and silver versions.

Neither camera has a self timer feature or an internal light meter. They are very similar mechanically with the M4-P being a more refined and updated version of the basic M4 camera.
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Old 03-30-2016   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shac View Post
Another difference I think (easily checked by looking at the outside of the main viewfinder window - is that the top of the M4-P was zinc (like the M6) while most of the M4-2's were brass., If the glass of the viewfinder is flush with the top - it's zinc, if recessed - brass.
Even though I use an M6 - yes I find the viewfinder cluttered with 28 and 75mm framelines - much prefer the M4-2, M4 and M2 finders
All that said - the ever-helpful and knowledgeable Tom A will fill you in I'm sure

many thanks, did not know that about the leica tops
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Old 03-30-2016   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shac View Post
Another difference I think (easily checked by looking at the outside of the main viewfinder window - is that the top of the M4-P was zinc (like the M6) while most of the M4-2's were brass., If the glass of the viewfinder is flush with the top - it's zinc, if recessed - brass.
Even though I use an M6 - yes I find the viewfinder cluttered with 28 and 75mm framelines - much prefer the M4-2, M4 and M2 finders
All that said - the ever-helpful and knowledgeable Tom A will fill you in I'm sure
Early M4-P models were brass tops as well, these brass top M4-P also shared the larger 50mm frame lines with the earlier M4-2 models compared to the M6. Of course brass M4-2 and M4-P are black chromed and will wear to silver not brass of the black painted brass models.

(previous owner of an early serial M4-P and had the opportunity to compare the 50mm frames with a M6).
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Old 03-30-2016   #11
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many M4-P were brass, only the latest production units were zinc. I have a brass top right in front of my keyboard at the moment.
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Old 03-30-2016   #12
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There are many threads about these cameras. Do a google search:

"M4-2 vs M4-P site:rangefinderforum.com"
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Old 03-31-2016   #13
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thanks et al for being so helpful....GAS attack...the hunt begins for a M4-2
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Old 03-31-2016   #14
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You may want to look at Mr. Gandy's write-up. Page down to the M4-2 and M4-P sections:

https://cameraquest.com/mguide.htm

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Old 03-31-2016   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shac View Post
Another difference I think (easily checked by looking at the outside of the main viewfinder window - is that the top of the M4-P was zinc (like the M6) while most of the M4-2's were brass., If the glass of the viewfinder is flush with the top - it's zinc, if recessed - brass.
Even though I use an M6 - yes I find the viewfinder cluttered with 28 and 75mm framelines - much prefer the M4-2, M4 and M2 finders
All that said - the ever-helpful and knowledgeable Tom A will fill you in I'm sure
It's my understanding the M4-P's with 2 PC sockets and recessed VF window are Brass

The addition of the 28&75 framelines were the major difference.
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