Cheap LTM Lenses

agour · 02-09-2012

Hey,

I recently bought a canon IIF, and its now at the repair shop getting a service. I'm basically wondering what sort of cheap lenses people would recommend?

Budget is tight right now, so I'm looking to get a 50mm to give the camera some use. My budget is >£100.

Im going to be shooting black and white film through it, so something with reasonable contrast would be nice.

I'm also confused by all this L39, LTM and M39 talk. I've read that some of the earlier canon RF's were not compatible with the L39 lenses, as the thread pitch was slightly different. But then I've also read that LTM and L39 are the same thing, and that M39 and L39 are also the same thing.. So yeah, whats actually the difference between the threads (if any), and what 50mm lens would you recommend.

Thanks in advance,
-agour

ray*j*gun · 02-09-2012

I61 FSU for 50 and a J12 35mm. J8's are nice also.

ampguy · 02-09-2012

within your budget are also canon 50/1.8s, a couple are in classifieds, here, or on other sites, that look like great user lens.

agour · 02-09-2012

the industar looks like it could be worth the price! A few have sold on ebay for around £15 recently, same as a few rolls of film..

Yeah the jupiter 8's look like a good bet for the money too. Im going to steer away from 35mms for a while, as the IIF doesnt have a viewfinder option for that focal length.

The only canon 50mm 1.8s I found on the classifieds had fungus/element seperation in them. On ebay UK, the only ones are priced at £350... Preferably I would stick with canon as their quality control should have been a whole load better than the FSU lenses. However I dont want to buy an already faulty lens, or one that costs 5x the price of the camera body!

Thanks for all the replies so far though

Brian Legge · 02-09-2012

Jupiter 8 are actually 50mm lenses. The Jupiter 12 is the 35mm lens in that line.

Personally, either a Jupiter 8 or Industar lens you know is calibrated for your camera is probably the cheapest solid option. The trick is finding a good one.

The Canon 50mm 1.8s don't come up for sale constantly but nice decent ones tend to sell for about $120-200 USD regularly. You might want to wait for one or post a willing to buy ad here.

That said, the russian lenses can be excellent if you find a good one. That can be the hard part.

batterytypehah! · 02-09-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by agour

I'm also confused by all this L39, LTM and M39 talk. I've read that some of the earlier canon RF's were not compatible with the L39 lenses, as the thread pitch was slightly different. But then I've also read that LTM and L39 are the same thing, and that M39 and L39 are also the same thing.. So yeah, whats actually the difference between the threads (if any), and what 50mm lens would you recommend.

Good advice given already. Do watch for shipping cost if you must buy from FSU sellers on ebay. Personally, I don't, as I can't stand the wait, the almost inevitable language issues, and the hordes of dishonest sellers you find there. I'd rather pay more from a reputable source such as fedka.com (incidentally also an excellent source of information).

LTM, M39, and whatnot -- indeed all refers to the same, today. Leica invented this standard but gave it a little twist to discourage copies. It's metric in diameter (39mm, duh) but the thread pitch is inch-based. They used 26 threads per inch which is almost, but not quite, 1mm. Took the competition a little time to figure that one out. So there are some historical cameras and lenses with a 39x1mm thread that are not compatible.

However, not every lens with that 39mm x 26 tpi thread is a rangefinder lens for full frame (24x36). This thread was also used for early Zenith SLR lenses (which can't be used on RF cameras, even though they will physically fit), and is very common for enlarger lenses. Which takes us back to dishonest sellers on ebay. I've seen plenty of auctions for "M39" or "Leica thread" lenses where the seller conveniently "forgot" to mention that it's an enlarger lens. The worst are those that hawk the Industar-69 lens as a wide angle for Leicas. In fact, that's a normal angle lens for a Russian half-frame camera, the Chaika. It will not cover the full frame on 24x36. But, because it unscrews (for use as an enlarger lens), and the Chaika is cheap and plentiful in Mother Russia, you see a lot of them for sale. You have been warned.

rbiemer · 02-09-2012

If a Canon 50/f1.8 is out of your budget, I would then suggest either an Industar-50 or Industar-22 collapsible lens.
they are not fast lenses at f3.5 as their max aperture, but they are good, basic, normal lenses. And fairly inexpensive. And, with the f3.5 max aperture, they will probably work well on your Canon.
Another lens you might look for is a Canon 50/f1.9 collapsible lens. Though I really don't know if those would be within your budget.

The Jupiter-8 and Industar-61 lenses that have been suggested already are potentially great lenses. The trouble is to find one that will work well on your camera. And that is a matter of trial and error.

If I were in your position, I would email FEDKA and OLEG and ask them about a good 50mm FSU lens that has been adjusted to Leica standard already. If you PM me, I can give you their email addfresses.

Good hunting!
Rob

xayraa33 · 02-09-2012

I have an I-22 lens on my Canon IIS2 nearly 90% of the time and I got a slew of Canon or Nikkor LTM lenses to choose from but that I-22 lens fits the Canon bottomloader type camera just right for some reason.

Dez · 02-09-2012

That is a really nice camera. that's one of the ones with the shutter you can set with or without cocking it, right?

The Canon 50/1.8 is really a fine lens, although some sellers have a horribly inflated idea of their value. I agree that with a bit of patience you should be able to find one in good condition for under $200. If you shop for one of these, note that they are notorious for internal fog, which can sometimes not be cleaned. This is a problem with the newer, black barreled ones, although I have very occasionally seen the same problem with an older chrome one.

But it sounds like you are anxious to start playing with your cool new camera, so I would go for a J8, myself. They are excellent lenses and quite cheap, although the shimming often needs to be adjusted to make the lens focus correctly at large apertures. This is a very easy job, but to do it you need a LTM camera with an openable back. The factory apparently thought that final assembly quality control was an evil imperialist invention, and therefore to be avoided.

I have tended to have very good luck with many Russian or Ukranian vendors on ebay. The trick is to ask all the questions to make sure you are getting what you need. For example, they usually have cleaning marks, which can be a problem, or have gummed up focusing, which can lower the price, but is quite easy to set right. If the vendor doesn't answer or pleads ignorance, get another vendor.

If that is not practical, I would for sure go for an Industar 22 or 50. They are slow, but very sharp, and dirt cheap. Again, make sure you are certain that the one you are buying has good glass, and all the mechanical bits work smoothly. I don't know if these were better made or it just didn't matter since they were so slow, but I never heard of anyone needing to adjust their focus.

Cheers,
Dez

gb hill · 02-09-2012

+1 on the J8. It's a very inexpensive 50/2 lens. Good performer too.

David Murphy · 02-09-2012

The silver Canon 50mm F1.8 is within your budget. It's one of the last relatively economical LTM lenses that's well made. The J-12 can be good for the money, but I've also had some examples literally come apart in my hand - that's how the FSU gear was sometimes - QC issues.

ruby.monkey · 02-09-2012

I have a Jupiter-3 in need of a good home. 't'is adjusted for use on a Leica-like, and in reasonably good condition. You're welcome to it.

awslee · 02-09-2012

The Steinheil from Germany is also very good.

OurManInTangier · 02-10-2012

Okay I'm intrigued now on two points.

1. Will you take Ruby up on the generous offer
2. Where are all the sub $200 Canon 50 1.8?

I don't wish to hijack but having owned and foolishly given away my old, and much loved, Canon 50mm 1.8 I recently started to look for a Canon 50 1.4 but prices are way too high on those now. So I switched to looking for another 1.8 but prices on those are crazy now. In the UK a decent example will be around £350 and anything around their usual value will be in pretty poor condition.

If you do hold on for a Canon 1.8 and manage to get a well priced example in good condition....don't give it away!

Brian Legge · 02-10-2012

If a J3 adjusted for the leica standard mount is on the table under your budget, go for it.

There are 4 Canon 50mm 1.8s on ebay.com under $100 right now. Obviously the price will go up and non are buy-it-now, but looking at recent completed sales almost all have gone for well under $200.

umcelinho · 02-11-2012

canon 50/1.8 chrome, as many others said, a bit above the budget usually but it's a VERY good lens.

stevebrot · 02-11-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by OurManInTangier

2. Where are all the sub $200 Canon 50 1.8?

My question as well. I have been shooting a J-8 and J-12 on my Canon P, but would love to have a Canon 50/1.8 instead. Although a dialed in J-3 might be nice too

Steve

nandemofoto · 02-12-2012

I have two of these for sale in Classifieds now...
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...tle/ltm-lenses

agour · 02-13-2012

the general consensus seems to be preferably a canon lens, with a jupiter or industar as a secondary one if budget is too tight. I've took ruby up on his very generous offer, so I should be the happy new owner of a jupiter 3!

Dez, im pretty sure the shutter can only be set after winding. I dont have the camera with me to check, but iirc if you set the dial before cocking, it would end up at a different position after cocking.

also double thanks for clearing up the thread issue batterytypehah!

cheers for all the help!