Testing rf wide angles on the a7
Old 10-19-2013   #1
GaryLH
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Testing rf wide angles on the a7

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/1...tion-answered/

For those who maybe interested... He is going to start testing some of the wide angle lenses on the a7 that were known to cause issue in the past.

Is anyone else's blog doing this? If so how about posting the info here? Or if u are getting one, please post your info about it.

Thanks
Gary
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Old 10-19-2013   #2
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I'm sure you must have seen this, but I think it is appropriate to post again in this thread, which might become a reference. Very soon, we will have a much larger data base from which to draw conclusions.

Quoted directly from LUF:
"I put my Zeiss ZM 21mm /2.8 on the A7r we have here [Luke works at Imaging-Resource Ed.]. I'm sad to report that color shifts were severe and covered most of the frame. There was also severe darkening of the image away from the center, way too much to simply call vignetting. I chose this lens carefully, based on the experience of other users, to avoid this problem with my early NEX cameras."
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Old 10-19-2013   #3
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Steve also wrote that when he had the prerelease copy in his hands that Sony didn't let him use a card. He won't be able to test lenses on it until he receives the camera after it is released.
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Old 10-19-2013   #4
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http://www.ronscheffler.com/techtalk/?p=224

A7 + RF lenses doesn't look good.
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Old 10-19-2013   #5
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I am guessing my f/4 superangulon would basically not produce acceptable images? It is reported to be unusable even with an M9, as it comes too close to the sensor.

Given that there are problems with the newer Leica 21mm ...

;-(

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Old 10-19-2013   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post
http://www.ronscheffler.com/techtalk/?p=224

A7 + RF lenses doesn't look good.
Lets hope that A7R will do better in that department.
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Old 10-19-2013   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post
http://www.ronscheffler.com/techtalk/?p=224

A7 + RF lenses doesn't look good.
http://briansmith.com/sony-a7r-field-test/

Brian Smith tested the A7r with the Zeiss 18mm f/4 M Mount, he states that he had to use CornerFix, but his results look pretty darn good.
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Old 10-19-2013   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregoyle View Post
http://briansmith.com/sony-a7r-field-test/

Brian Smith tested the A7r with the Zeiss 18mm f/4 M Mount, he states that he had to use CornerFix, but his results look pretty darn good.
The 18mm is a Distagon.
I guess we will see the Biogons perform poorly without correction (or maybe even with).
Hopefully the 35biogon(s) will be good.
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Old 10-19-2013   #9
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Does anyone know for certain

if the A7 and A7r have the same

or different micro prisms in the sensor ?

Stephen
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Old 10-19-2013   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
Hopefully the 35biogon(s) will be good.
In the samples in the link above the 35/2.8 Biogon is one of the worst offenders.
The 35/1.2 Nokton on the other hand looks pretty usable.
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Old 10-19-2013   #11
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I personally would like to c how the following lenses behave
- Leica
-- 24f2.8, 35f2, 40f2, 50f2, 90f2.8
- CV
-- 40f1.4 and 50f1.5
- Canon
-- 50f1.2
- Konica
-- 21/35 (dual - Konica answer to tri-elmar) and 50f2

Right now I am presuming that the lenses from 40mm on up should not be an issue.

My most used lens on the Ricoh gxr is the 35f2.. It is actually almost permanently on the camera. The 40 would be what I would use the most if I ever went back to ff..

Anyway, for me for legacy rf lenses, the gxr is what I use. My most used lenses on it are 24/35/50. W/ the 35 being as I said semi-permanent...

Gary
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Old 10-19-2013   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

In the samples in the link above the 35/2.8 Biogon is one of the worst offenders.
The 35/1.2 Nokton on the other hand looks pretty usable.
Bummer to hear...
I can't open the link from my phone atm.
Was the Zm Biogon 28 tested ?
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Old 10-19-2013   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CameraQuest View Post
Does anyone know for certain

if the A7 and A7r have the same

or different micro prisms in the sensor ?

Stephen
Didn't the a7r have a different design? But given the higher pixel density not sure if it will help.

Gary
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Old 10-19-2013   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
Bummer to hear...
I can't open the link from my phone atm.
Was the Zm Biogon 28 tested ?
No, but the 28 Cron is there and doesn't look good: color shift + smearing. Same for the Contax G 28 (from another test). The ZM 28 is very similar to the G 28. The back element of the ZM stays a little bit further from the sensor (2mm or sth) but I wouldn't hold my breath.

The most surprising result is that most 50mm lenses (and even the 90mm Summarit) tested need to be closed down to f4 for border sharpness. The Planar ZM is the one exception.

Maybe the A7r will do a bit better due to the lack of AA filter.
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Old 10-19-2013   #15
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Isn't Steve Huff like a sponsored Ken Rockwell on happy pills? Would you really trust their judgement on anything?
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Old 10-19-2013   #16
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Quote:
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Isn't Steve Huff like a sponsored Ken Rockwell on happy pills? Would you really trust their judgement on anything?
No he is not.

Huff works his butt off to get out accurate gear information in a timely manner to people who want to KNOW the subject matter ASAP.

I do trust his judgement -- though of course he is no more perfect than anyone else. For instance Huff was the first that reviewer that I know of to point out the 7R's loud shutter.

He is not like you since I allowed you to return to RFF -- seemingly intent upon creating a dark cloud of worthless content.

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Old 10-19-2013   #17
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Could it be true that the new Sony camera cannot handle wide angles well? I would like to know.
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Old 10-19-2013   #18
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Sad news about the 28 cron. And who knows about adapters?
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Old 10-19-2013   #19
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Hoping for better news for A7r and 28 cron.
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Old 10-19-2013   #20
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These are very very different cameras: a7 v a7r.

a7 is not expected to be great with RF glass.
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Old 10-19-2013   #21
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I predict that some M lenses will work fine, and others not. ]:-)

That's why I collected Leica R lenses for adaptation. M lenses mostly stay on the M9.

G
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Old 10-19-2013   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
These are very very different cameras: a7 v a7r.

a7 is not expected to be great with RF glass.
uh oh uhoh7. !!
I hope you're not disappointed with performance of your summi28 on the A7/R.

A lot of emotional energy going into M mount expectations around here.
Fact may well be that the native lenses for this system will be the "best" performers overall (Zeiss and all why not?).

Other than a ZM Biogon 28mm. I'm only hoping for a digital FF platform for a couple M Hexanons I have here.
If this is not it the wait continues
Sounds like Sony made every effort to get it right.
Hopefully this early poor report is just that.... Early and poor.
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Old 10-19-2013   #23
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http://www.ronscheffler.com/techtalk/?p=224 Just downloaded his files.

The 21 lux looks fine when stopped down. From experience I could care less about wide open corner performance, they'll be blurry with a lens that fast and wide anyways.

The 50s and 35s look fantastic, great news for most of us here who would no doubt use these focal ranges the most. Personally I'd buy an A7 even if it performed horribly with lenses wider than 35mm, since 35,50 and 90 cover about 85% of my daily shooting.
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Old 10-19-2013   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Petronio View Post
Isn't Steve Huff like a sponsored Ken Rockwell on happy pills? Would you really trust their judgement on anything?
I like Steve Huff, he seems like a nice guy, but trust his judgement? No, generally I think the only person you can trust the judgement of is yourself, or people you know very well. Even then, I know my own judgement is pretty ropey at times.
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Old 10-20-2013   #25
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I have read somewhere that it is onle the A7r that has special microprisms on pixels which improve light gathering for off axis rays.
I am very curious to see how the A7r behaves with the same lenses.
I never considered the A7. And as said elsewhere will probably wait for a more advanced A9
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Old 10-20-2013   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zauhar View Post
I am guessing my f/4 superangulon would basically not produce acceptable images? It is reported to be unusable even with an M9, as it comes too close to the sensor.

Given that there are problems with the newer Leica 21mm ...

;-(

Randy
Well the R version seems to work fine on Nex 6...guess the crop is cutting off the nasty bits!
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Old 10-20-2013   #27
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Here is a CNET quote from their initial review...

Quote:
Both new sensors have redesigned microlens arrays. While most modern sensors use gapless microlenses, these also required some tweaking on the edges near the lens mount to prevent vignetting, since the sensor's such a tight fit in the mount opening.
CNET

RE: A9 & A9r

The A7 is a prosumer camera. You have to wonder what the '9' series will bring. Maybe full weather sealing, fast autofocus, global shutter, fast frame rate and 4K video...
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Old 10-20-2013   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistach View Post
I have read somewhere that it is onle the A7r that has special microprisms on pixels which improve light gathering for off axis rays.
I am very curious to see how the A7r behaves with the same lenses.
I never considered the A7. And as said elsewhere will probably wait for a more advanced A9
the sky is falling OMG

1) you are right. the A7r sensor is gapless and offset. The A7 results are meaningless for A7r

2) results are not as bad even for the plain A7 as Ron implies.

Not worried yet.

But we will know for sure within a few weeks.

Glee at prospect new sonys can't do M from some is comical.
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Old 10-20-2013   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegman View Post
I like Steve Huff, he seems like a nice guy, but trust his judgement? No, generally I think the only person you can trust the judgement of is yourself, or people you know very well. Even then, I know my own judgement is pretty ropey at times.
LOL! You said almost exactly what I was going to write. ;-)

Steve Huff does a good job of what he does, with lots of energy and as much accuracy as a single individual can muster. But he's still just one guy reviewing gear and giving his opinion.

When it comes to what I like, what feels useful to me, etc, the only person who can make that evaluation is me. And sometimes I even get it wrong ... for me.

Anyway, I fully expect that for the most part the best lenses to use on these new wunderkameras are going to the ones that Sony (Zeiss) makes specifically for them. And I'm sure that won't stop people from trying out their existing lenses on them too, and complaining bitterly when they aren't exactly what they wanted them to be.

For me, the Sonys pose an interesting possibility for the future. I'm not all that enthusiastic about Sony's body ergonomics and such, though, whereas I have always been extremely pleased with what Olympus does in that regard on their pro grade cameras. The big sensor is nice, I'm sure it will perform well. A friend has pre-ordered one, I'll be getting the low down on it through his eyes for a while to come.

(Steve,

The A7 and A7r use two entirely different sensors.

The A7 sensor is lower density with larger photosite pitch and has PDAF sensors embedded in it. The A7r sensor has smaller photosites and no AA filter. The microlens array has to be completely different between them.

I expect their behavior with various RF lenses will also differ, possibly radically, particularly with short focal length, near-symmetric designs like the Biogons and Color Skopars. The only way to know what works well and what doesn't will be to have production units in hand and test them carefully.)

G
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Old 10-20-2013   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
Well the R version seems to work fine on Nex 6...guess the crop is cutting off the nasty bits!
You mean an SLR lens? I guess that would sit far from the sensor, and should work without incident.

My 21mm SA worked fine on the Ricoh GXR, but of course that is with crop.

I need to get my student at the Sony store to let me try it for myself on the A7r!! - unfortunately they don't have one in yet.

Randy
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Old 10-20-2013   #31
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I think that Sony knows that many will start with the idea that their legacy lenses will work with their new camera. They also know that many of the same people have a utopian quest for just the perfect optics /ergonomics. That explains why I have multiple Zeiss lenses in the same focal lengths for various camera mounts.
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Thanks Cameraquest and lensrental
Old 10-26-2013   #32
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Thanks Cameraquest and lensrental

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/1...-a7r-and-rx10/

So the Sony media event is ext week in Nashvile and Steve is going to be their w/ a bunch of lenses loaned to him courtesy of Cameraquest and lensrental.

Way to go... Thanks..Stephen

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Voitlander 28f2 and 35f1.4
Old 10-29-2013   #33
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Voitlander 28f2 and 35f1.4

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2013/1...-in-nashville/

Well Steve Huff is at the Sony event. He has posted shots from the Voitlander 28f2 and 35f1.2 as well as the Sony 55f1.8. Just ooc jpgs.

Night time at the bars... And the bands
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Old 10-29-2013   #34
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Looks damn good to me.
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Old 10-29-2013   #35
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Wow, I'm shocked at how much the output from this camera looks like a camera. I expected it to look like god shat diamond encrusted dreams onto my screen.
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Old 10-29-2013   #36
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Quote:
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Wow, I'm shocked at how much the output from this camera looks like a camera. I expected it to look like god shat diamond encrusted dreams onto my screen.
Would you know what that looked like if you saw it?
Maybe that's what we're looking at

Looks good so far with the 1.2/35mm.
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Old 10-29-2013   #37
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Would you know what that looked like if you saw it?
Maybe that's what we're looking at .
Good point.
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Old 10-29-2013   #38
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Quote:
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Wow, I'm shocked at how much the output from this camera looks like a camera. I expected it to look like god shat diamond encrusted dreams onto my screen.
Here is a diamond-encrusted dream from our gallery (kudos to 'Rangefinder 35'):



I believe the FF sensor in use was something called 'Velvia 100'

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Old 10-29-2013   #39
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Here is a diamond-encrusted dream from our gallery (kudos to 'Rangefinder 35'):
I believe the FF sensor in use was something called 'Velvia 100'

Randy
One thing for sure: the Sony A7s are some serious troll bait.

I shoot film also, but I don't bang on doors to convert the world back to film. Nor do I pollute threads about shooting film with smug diatribes about digital.
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Old 10-29-2013   #40
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Firstly, I am very impressed by the number of people attempting to adapt non-native lenses to a this camera. I understand the attraction. I shot a number of Nikon F mount lenses like my beloved 85 mm f/1.4 and 20 mm f/4.0 on DX cameras because that was really my only option.

A recent article posted by the Lens Rental blog was quite telling:
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013...-lens-adapters

It seems to me that maybe we are dreaming of sticking a square peg in a circle hole here. Everyone wants this to be the poor man's full frame M body, but maybe the Sony engineers had very different goals. I mean they are designing a camera around the FE mount with an ability to adapt A-mount lenses. M mount lenses are designed around the innate parameters of the M mount. Leica itself has had to innovate just make its own lenses work with a modern FF body.

The native Zeiss lenses seem awesome so far (I've loved what I have seen with the FE 35 mm f/2.8). There is not a wide angle yet, but you know they have the expertise and the proprietary knowledge for each body to make an optimized wide angle.

If it were me and I were seriously considering a Sony A7/R I would seriously be most concerned with the native lens performance, and practice patience while I wait for the native WA lenses to come. If M mount lenses show imperfections on the M mount camera maybe its just something we will have to live with in the digital world.
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