Summicron 50mm F/2 , Price??

wburgund · 09-21-2005

I have an opportunity to buy this lens in a 10+ condition at $1200. Can you please tell me if that is a good price. Thanks, Bill

rover · 09-22-2005

Tooo much.

New they can be bought for under $1000.

What version is it? Sounds like there is some collectors value built up in that price.

From Cameraquest.com

50/2 Summicron Many variations, so it can get confusing. Many consider the 50 Summicron best of all 50 mm lenses, by any manufacturer. It's the standard that other 50's are judged by.

First version 1954-1957 Collapsible chrome. A good lens, but not as good as the later lenses. EXTREMELY likely to be found with lens scratches. It has a VERY soft front coating. Likely to be encountered fogged from original owner, see Fogging. Not collapsible on M5 or CL due to meter constrictions. 7 elements, focused to 40"
Second version 1956-68 Rigid chrome, although a few were made in black by special order. Aesthetically a very handsome lens, sought after by shooters and collectors. This lens was tested to have the highest resolution (at the expense of some contrast) of any 50 Summicron several years ago by a Japanese photography magazine. Again, very prone to front lens scratches. For many years thought to be the same optical formula as the collapsible, recently it has been confirmed to be slightly different. Likely to be encountered fogged from original owner, see Fogging. 7 elements, focused to 40"
Third version 1956-1968 Dual Range Summicron, chrome. This is a special close focusing version of # 2 above. The 50/2 Duel Range Summicron had the highest tested resolution of any lens ever tested by the great and sadly departed American photography magazine, Modern Photography. It has the closest RF coupled focusing of any M lens. 7 elements. Most "experts" say the optical formula is the same as the rigid, but many experienced DR users claim they get different results and so believe they must be different formulas. With a flat platform for the "eyes" on the top of it's focusing barrel, the DR is not as pleasing aesthetically as the rigid. Nevertheless, the DR is very sought after by shooters. Again, very prone to front lens scratches and also fogging if bought from the original owner, see Fogging. for Pics
The 50/2 DR will probably work fine on the M6, but you must remember to mount and dismount the lens focused at infinity. When focused near it's closest regular focusing distance, the lens will be difficult to mount OR unmount. I have reports of the DR not functioning in close up range on a M6. I am frankly unsure if these reports are due to variations with the bodies and the DR, or are the result of user error. More research will till. It seems prudent to try a DR on your M6 before you buy it.

Howard Cummer in Hong Kong reports difficulty using a 2nd series DR in close-up range on a M6 .85 # 2296539. While he could mount the lens, if it was not focused at it's closest regular focusing distance, the close up range was inoperative due to some sort of internal body restrictions. Whether this is true of all late M6's in general, or of just the .85 model is not clear at this time. In any case, it's a good idea to try it out to be sure on your own body/lens combination.

The 50/2 DR will NOT work on a Minolta CLE in my experience. Although the lens will mount, it will bind with the body just slightly from the infinity marking.

The DR lens has two focusing ranges, thus the brilliant name "Dual Range." The DR can ONLY be mounted on the camera without it's "eyes." The "eyes" are a detachable viewfinder which clips onto the top of the lens and in front of the camera's rangefinder/viewfinder. They look pretty much like the viewer built into the 135/2.8 or the M3 versions of the 35/2 and 2.8. Once mounted, the closer focusing range is attained by turning the lens to it's closest normal focusing point. Then attach the "eyes" which clip onto the lens. ONLY at this focus point can the eyes be attached and the closest focusing range attained. THEN pull the focusing barrel out slightly, and the lens barrel can be swung over farther to the left, to get into the close focusing range. It sounds more complicated than it really is in practice.

It is worth noting that many experienced used find the DR Summicron not only their favorite 50, but their favorite lens, period. It has a combination of higher resolution and lower contrast and superb out of focus images.

The Earlier version of the DR focuses to 19" and is marked in either feet or meters, but not both. It is also marked in reproduction rations from 1:15 to 1:.75. The "eyes" for these have the "condenser" trademark, inside of which is "E.
Leitz Wetzlar."

The Later version of the DR focuses to 20" and is marked in BOTH feet and meters, without the repro ratios. The "eyes" for this version are marked "Leitz Wetzlar" without the condenser trademark. The second version also has wider and deeper knurling on the focusing ring than the previous version. I have noticed a "warmer" color of lens coating on these later DR's, but am not sure if it extends to ALL of this variety. The lens head and glass appears to be identical to the earlier version and to the rigid version, at least from the outside. The second version also has a smaller ball bearing mount for the eyes, which means the later eyes will not fit the earlier lenses, though the older eyes will fit the later lenses.

Fourth version 1969-1979 Black lens with no "50" on barrel, No focusing lock or lever. Generally reputed to be a notch below either of the Summicron versions before or after it. 6 elements. This and later versions focused to 28, the closest focusing RF coupled 50 after the DR."
Fifth version 1980-95 Black lens with "50" on barrel, reintroduced focusing lever, without built in hood. In my opinion this is a better choice in terms of handling than the built in hood version which followed it. I am a fan of both the focusing lever and the larger attachable hood. Nice lightweight lens at only 195 grams 6 elements, recomputed. Earlier lenses are Made in Canada, later Made in Germany.
Sixth version 1995-date Black or chrome lens with "50" on barrel and built in hood. No focusing lever. Same optical design as previous version. Weighs more at 240 grams in black. The chrome version weighs much more at 333 grams, so I would avoid it. Same optical formula as previous version.
In December 2001, Leica announced 500 50/2 Titanium lenses would be made to match their newly introduced limited edition .72 M6 TTL Titanium body.

Flyfisher Tom · 09-22-2005

First of all, its impossible to be in "10+" condition, for obvious reasons, unless it has the "leica glow" ;-) Kind of like the disturbing trend of students now sporting 4.3 GPAs when 4.0 used to be the max.

That price is way too high. Mint used 50/crons can be had for 600-700 USD if you look for them. I'd recommend you bargain down or wait for a good deal. good luck.

ywenz · 09-22-2005

Actually, new it's for $1400 at bhphotovideo.com

Where did you see it for under $1000 new?

rover · 09-22-2005

Popflash has them for $1050, so I do stand corrected. Like Tom says though, used you can often find the current version in mint condition for $600 to $700 and occationally less. Actually, filipe has a version IV currently available here for around $750. When I was shopping for my 50 Summicron I was very surprised to find that dealers actually are asking more for the version IV lenses than the current ones.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ad.php?t=11234

felipe · 09-22-2005

Rover, actually I'm selling it at $570 US greenbacks, (~670 in $CAD). (Ex. Shipping, that is..)

You're right about the tabbed ones going for more than the current version though. Maybe they are more sought after since they're lighter, smaller (without hood) and easier to focus (tab).
Having handled both the current version feels and looks alot bulkier on the camera than the older version, and they hande quite a bit different.

Bill, unless you're a collector I'd look for a used one. You might be able to get a virtually mint model for half of the $1200 you'd pay for a new one, complete with boxes and papers, just keep your eyes open.
Those are after all very solid and high quality so they hold up very well..

Cheers,
Phil

rover · 09-22-2005

I did buy the same version Phil is selling. It is exceptional, and that is a great price.

DerekF · 09-22-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by rover

Popflash has them for $1050, so I do stand corrected.

Actually, that 1050 USD is for a "like new" version, which I presume is one that has been used/opened. A new one goes for 1395 USD, which I believe is the MSRP that Leica is forcing all of its dealers to sell it at. Prior to the price hikes of a couple of months ago, I think the MSRP of that lens was around 1100 USD.

BTW, speaking of Popflash (and a bit off-topic), I can't say enough good things about Tony Rose. Very nice and helpful guy!

Flyfisher Tom · 09-22-2005

If you are looking for NEW ... I don't know how the exchange rates are playing out, but try Poon at www.hksupplies.com ... he frequently has Leica stuff (all new) that is below the B&H prices. Quite reliable chap.

ywenz · 09-22-2005

http://www.popflash.com/list.cfm?Pag...=2&classid=All

The site clearly says a used 50mm Summicron is $1021, while a BRAND NEW lens is $1395. So no, you can't get a new one for less than $1395.. so take that into your consideration when you buy a used lens.

Ben Z · 09-23-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by rover

1969-1979 Black lens with no "50" on barrel, No focusing lock or lever. Generally reputed to be a notch below either of the Summicron versions before or after it.

Actually that version (11817) is hotly debated (among Leica fanciers more interested in lens testing than taking pictures) as against the current version, there is no "general reputed" about it. But thanks to a segment of Leica buyers who rely on unproven internet hearsay rather than personal use, to make their purchase decisions, the 11817 tends to sell below the "mythologized" versions that pre- and super-ceded it. I sold my current version, kept the 11817 because I found the difference to be of conversational value only. I put the money I got from the current version toward something that could give me a palpable advantage in actual picture-taking, i.e. another focal length.

rover · 09-23-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Z

Actually that version (11817) is hotly debated (among Leica fanciers more interested in lens testing than taking pictures) as against the current version, there is no "general reputed" about it. But thanks to a segment of Leica buyers who rely on unproven internet hearsay rather than personal use, to make their purchase decisions, the 11817 tends to sell below the "mythologized" versions that pre- and super-ceded it. I sold my current version, kept the 11817 because I found the difference to be of conversational value only. I put the money I got from the current version toward something that could give me a palpable advantage in actual picture-taking, i.e. another focal length.

Ben, that is a quote from Stephen Gandy's Cameraquest site. I have no idea if he has used that lens or not, I have not, yet. I agree that the performance of all Summicrons is exceptional. I think the point related to the original post is that paying $1200 for a used Summicron is not wise. Even if they can't be bought for much less from a dealer, they are regularly available in private sales for much much less.

ywenz · 09-23-2005

still, I believe bill would benefit from an accurate statement regarding the cost of a NEW 'cron 50mm

rover · 09-23-2005

ywenz, you are right, in the US a 50 Summicron new is going to run $1300+. But if bought grey market the story is different.

They are listed here for $700

http://www.accphoto.com/Pages/Shopping.htm

I personally wouldn't buy anything from Accphoto, but HK Supplies or Dr. You (sp?) in Hong Kong are reputable and a new lens most likely can be bought for less from them. Shopping is prudent when spending this much money.

peter_n · 09-23-2005

Bill, don't you already have a 50mm Summilux?

dcsang · 09-23-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by felipe

Rover, actually I'm selling it at $570 US greenbacks, (~670 in $CAD). (Ex. Shipping, that is..)

You're right about the tabbed ones going for more than the current version though. Maybe they are more sought after since they're lighter, smaller (without hood) and easier to focus (tab).
Having handled both the current version feels and looks alot bulkier on the camera than the older version, and they hande quite a bit different.

Bill, unless you're a collector I'd look for a used one. You might be able to get a virtually mint model for half of the $1200 you'd pay for a new one, complete with boxes and papers, just keep your eyes open.
Those are after all very solid and high quality so they hold up very well..

Cheers,
Phil

SHUSH. that one is SPOKEN for remember !!!

Dave

skipc · 09-23-2005

Recently sold a Cron 50/2;0 Latest Black E++ for $595 US incl shipping...skip

rover · 09-23-2005

Here is another excellent and less expensive option to a $1200 50 Summicron.

http://cgi.ebay.com/KONICA-50MM-F2-M...QQcmdZViewItem

35mmdelux · 02-15-2006

Unless new or asph, a 50mmcron should not cost more than $500, ever. I've bought several and see them all the time for $450. Just sold one the other day.

A lux, well, now we're talking more benjis. Tony Rose was selling brand new 50mm Luxes for $1200 and then for $1300. He sold out. I considered picking 1 up, but went for a 35mm Lux instead. Buyer beware.

Rangeman133 · 10-24-2011

bumping this thread. was on google, looking for current prices of the lens (50mm summicron, f/2 ver. 4 - with the tiger claw, w/o the built in hood)

i came across this thread, and it seems to me, that over the past 5 years, the prices of lenses have in some cases doubled.

as for the lens i'm looking for, buying the NEW version is 2,000 USD. does anybody know what the price for the ver. 4, of course used, price would be?

I've been browsing around on ebay, and it seems to be rated at about 1,500 USD. this is obviously overpriced, right?

rxmd · 10-24-2011

Well there is a used v3 in the classifieds for $1100, so "doubled" seems pretty accurate. Still overpriced, though.

Rangeman133 · 10-24-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by rxmd

Well there is a used v3 in the classifieds for $1100, so "doubled" seems pretty accurate. Still overpriced, though.

yeah, i saw that just a second ago. is there a shortage of new leica lenses? b&h are pretty much out of stock, so do you think that is what's driving up prices in the used market for the leica lenses?

Rangeman133 · 10-24-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by dogberryjr

"Unless new or asph, a 50mmcron should not cost more than $500, ever. I've bought several and see them all the time for $450."

Wow.

where could i find one at such a price? i've searched keh, ebay, b&h used stores, etc... any there suggestions as to where to find one from? thanks...

Rowse · 10-24-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangeman133

where could i find one at such a price? i've searched keh, ebay, b&h used stores, etc... any there suggestions as to where to find one from? thanks...

Don't forget that these prior replies were are from 2005. So in 6 years the prices have easily doubled.

nobbylon · 10-24-2011

jump in a time machine and head back to feb 2006 as that was when the post was from