let's talk about improvement...

[back alley]

...of our photo skills.

we talk alot about gear and that's ok.
we post lots of images and that is pretty wonderful.

we ask lots of questions, good questions...lots of who, what, where etc. regarding certain images we like and maybe would like to copy.

i propose we start talking more about how we can improve our skills.
just HOW that would look i have to leave for the smart ones out there in rf land.

it might look like mini tutorials, maybe a how to or how i did this shot.
perhaps the reason you took a certain shot and how you chose the vantage point used.

if you agree then nod your head and start thinking, shooting and writing.
let's keep it all here in this thread for now and perhaps with some luck and time it will grow into it's own forum segment.

...just a thought...

[jayhopkins2001]

As a noob back into film, I wholeheartedly support this effort as I will be a primary consumer.

To all, please show your expertise so I may improve.

Jay

P.S. Recently acquired a Yashica 35 GT which is great, an Olympus XA from GW for $2.99 that I'm now testing and (Sunday) a Kodak 1a Special - need to mod this for 120 though and get bigger pockets.

[Roger Hicks]

LOOK at your pictures. Try to put it into words why they work (or not). Words are imperfect, but they're better than "Duh, I like it," or "Duh, I don't like it."

Try to divide your critique into content (or even passion), composition and technique. The three need to be balanced to some extent. Do not neglect the possibility that you may mark a picture down because you don't think it's a 'proper' or 'appropriate' subject.

Listen to the opinions of others, but then, reflect upon your opinion of their opinions (as it were). Are their opinions worth more than your own? If so, why? If not, why not?

Cheers,

R.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by PKR

Spend a lot of time looking at paintings and learn to draw.

If you want to look at photos, there are lots here:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ad.php?t=95325

Possibly. That's how I got accepted for art school. But I've never been convinced that it's really that much use for a photographer. On the other hand, because I've already done it, I am as poorly qualified to judge as someone who has never done it... You can't run controls on this one.

Cheers,

R.

[ferider]

I have to figure out first why I photograph and what I want to photograph.

Then how to improve showing what I want to show.

That's what I've concluded. And I hope I'm making progress. At least it makes me happier.

[jayhopkins2001]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

LOOK at your pictures. .....

Try to divide your critique into content (or even passion), composition and technique. The three need to be balanced to some extent. Do not neglect the possibility that you may mark a picture down because you don't think it's a 'proper' or 'appropriate' subject.

Thanks for this advice Roger. I have spent hours on your site attempting to grok all the information there. There seems to be a gap for me between vision and final image. I understand the mechanics/science of what needs to be done but my final image never seems to live up to my vision. Maybe it's my evaluation of the scene, my choice of settings/framing/etc, my expectations. That's where I'm hoping to learn from the people here.

Jay

[SimonSawSunlight]

shoot more, think more - not just about how you take photos, but also about what you photograph, the places you photograph in.

[nikon_sam]

I have said this in other threads and I believe it to be true...
I shoot B&W and develop both the film and prints at home...I find that developing the film helps me to expose it better in camera...and printing helps me to fine tune my film developing...
It doesn't really matter what film camera you use, subject or composition if you're not able to pull a decent print from your negs...

[Mackinaw]

For me, I got a lot better at photography (at least to me) when I trashed the old and embraced something new. For 30+ years I took mainly landscapes and scenics which, after awhile, all started to look alike. I decided I needed to re-boot myself and changed to street and people photography. Instead of hiding behind rocks, trees and barns, I was forced to confront people, establish a photo-relationship, and take a picture. What a thrill! No more comfort zone! It's been about seven years now and I haven't looked back.

Jim B.

[SciAggie]

Joe, I think this is a good idea. I think there is a great deal of potential in this thread idea. I have a few photos from my recent trip that I was not happy with; my pics didn't match my vision. I also had several that as I looked closely at the images, I saw something new I wish I had captured.

I think it will be good to share pictures and have open discussions about how to improve our work. I would put something up now if I had time - I need to be grading papers but I'm procrastinating...

I will definitely be checking back after a while.

[charjohncarter]

Some of my weak points are; composition, post exposure processing, and exposure determination. Even though I meter most scenes that I care about I still think I have something missing. Tutorials would be great. I could care less about gear, but any knowledge on technique would be great.

An example is Bob Micheals recent photo of long tone TriX; he just used 'Sunny 16' and got a great photo. The big question is why, does he have a better sense than the rest of us or is he better at seeing what can go wrong with a scene?

Maybe you or me should ask him, I couldn't find his post. I'll look further, and edit tomorrow. Right now I have to go cook Hamburgers.

[Keith]

I think the instant you're totally satisfied with your own output, you're a gonner! The complacency will show in your photographs eventually and you may as well move to another form of self expression.

Just my opinion of course.

[charjohncarter]

Originally Posted by Keith

I think the instant you're totally satisfied with your own output, you're a gonner! The complacency will show in your photographs eventually and you may as well move to another form of self expression.

Just my opinion of course.

I just clicked back and saw your post. Complacency is really a problem. I have never done anything that I didn't think I could improve on. BUT even trying to improve is a very frustrating process.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by charjohncarter

I just clicked back and saw your post. Complacency is really a problem. I have never done anything that I didn't think I could improve on. BUT even trying to improve is a very frustrating process.

And if you're not frustrated (to a point) you're not trying hard enough IMO.

I tend to enter the complaceny phase slightly with my paid work occasionally ... and I see it the instant I download that storage card onto my computer!

[nikon_sam]

Originally Posted by Keith

I think the instant you're totally satisfied with your own output, you're a gonner! The complacency will show in your photographs eventually and you may as well move to another form of self expression.

Just my opinion of course.

True...I find that I'm always trying to improve on many levels when it comes to my photography...never satisfied with where I am...

[gilpen123]

The learning never stops. if you come to a point where you are not challenged anymore, then it's time to do painting

[zauhar]

Can I kick this off with a real elementary example?

Lynn (lynnb) left a comment about one of my gallery photos - he said it was overexposed:



I exposed for the shadows, and the sun was really strong that day - I was not sure how to best handle it. Exposure was (I think) f4 @ 1/250 (Tri-X)

Would could I do to improve that? Stop the lens down more? Change development strategy? (I developed in Rodinal according to the chart.)

UPDATE: I've had additional criticism that I was too far away. Who says that the RFF forum is all sweetness and light!? ("Good capture!") That remark stings - I am well aware that I do not get close enough, and using the 21mm lens at the march only made that worse.


Randy

[paulfish4570]

this is a good idea, joe. i might suggest that, as a start, anyone who posts a week's best photo from the gallery should say why it was chosen.

[SciAggie]

Originally Posted by zauhar

Can I kick this off with a real elementary example?

Lynn (lynnb) left a comment about one of my gallery photos - he said it was overexposed:



I exposed for the shadows, and the sun was really strong that day - I was not sure how to best handle it. Exposure was (I think) f4 @ 1/250 (Tri-X)

Would could I do to improve that? Stop the lens down more? Change development strategy? (I developed in Rodinal according to the chart.)

UPDATE: I've had additional criticism that I was too far away. Who says that the RFF forum is all sweetness and light!? ("Good capture!") That remark stings - I am well aware that I do not get close enough, and using the 21mm lens at the march only made that worse.


Randy

I was not there, so I don't know the details of the circumstances you were facing. I find myself wondering if you would have been better off shooting from the opposite side of the street? Then you would have been shooting into the shadow of the building at your back, Could that have eliminated the high contrast background?

This is certainly the type of considerations I face regularly - I find a flaw in an image that often I did not recognize at the time of the exposure. I have to chalk it up to experience for the next time.

[SciAggie]

Originally Posted by paulfish4570

this is a good idea, joe. i might suggest that, as a start, anyone who posts a week's best photo from the gallery should say why it was chosen.

Paul, that's a good idea.

I sometimes post an image that I like that gets very little interest. I think we all have had that experience as well. We could post samples like that and give our reasons why we like the image and state our intended goal. It might be enlightening to hear the contrasting opinions of why it isn't interesting to others.

[SciAggie]

Here is an example of an image that was effectively ignored. I was driving through South Texas and was heartbroken at the condition of the rangeland in this particular area. I stopped and took this image. I only had a 50mm focal length and couldn't get everything in the frame I wanted, so I took two frames and later stitched them together in CS4.

I suspect I may have been better off depicting the dry conditions with several seperate images in a series. They could have shown more detail. #1 I didn't think of that at the time. #2 I didn't have access to the private property. ( I was shooting over a fence) #3 I was traveling on business, and couldn't devote time for more invloved reportage. That's my story - what do you say?

[SciAggie]

Joe, I may be asking more for a critique. If this isn't what you had in mind, speak up. I'm just trying to participate.

For a tutorial, I want to know where Simon got his mojo lately.

[f16sunshine]

Originally Posted by SciAggie

Here is an example of an image that was effectively ignored. I was driving through South Texas and was heartbroken at the condition of the rangeland in this particular area. I stopped and took this image. I only had a 50mm focal length and couldn't get everything in the frame I wanted, so I took two frames and later stitched them together in CS4.

I suspect I may have been better off depicting the dry conditions with several seperate images in a series. They could have shown more detail. #1 I didn't think of that at the time. #2 I didn't have access to the private property. ( I was shooting over a fence) #3 I was traveling on business, and couldn't devote time for more invloved reportage. That's my story - what do you say?

Gary thanks for posting this. It brings my thought to the surface.
This post brings up what I find to be my greatest weakness or better put greatest opportunity in photography.
How to separate what I see with my own eyes as a worthwhile subject from what I create with my own eyes and kit into a expressive photo.
There is a separation. One I can not always come to grips with and therefore come away with an image (or several) that make little impact to a viewer who was not present during the take.
I think many of the greats know who to strip down a scene to bring back an image that expresses something rather than one that simply records something.
I choose Ralph Gibson as an example.

[defektive]

This is a terrific idea for a relative beginner such as I. Not only to get advice on my own shots but also to see how those more advanced are trying to improve. I look forward to participating in whatever form is decided.

Sam

[SciAggie]

Originally Posted by f16sunshine

I think many of the greats know who to strip down a scene to bring back an image that expresses something rather than one that simply records something.

That is a pearl of wisdom. It reminds me of what I tell students when I give an assignment, "There is a difference between answering a question and putting down an answer". It is clear I simply recorded the scene. I may carry some emotion with the image, but that isn't conveyed through the image.