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Tom Abrahamsson of RapidWinder.com It is almost never that an inventor improves on a Leica product so that it is better than the original Leica product. Tom holds that distinction with his RapidWinder for Leica M rangefinders -- a bottom mounting baseplate trigger advance. In addition Tom manufacturers other Leica accessories such as his very popular Soft Release and MiniSoftRelease shutter releases. Tom is well known as one of the true Leica rangefinder experts, even by Leica. IMPORTANT READ THIS: CWE Forum hosts have moderation powers within their forum. Please observe copyright laws by not copying and posting their material elsewhere without permission.

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Old 10-02-2011   #51
Nigel Meaby
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That is still the old stuff, cut from stored master rolls, marketed by the company that was the old AgfaPhoto marketing department and trademarks.

Adox and Inoviscoat are restarting APX400 production. However Inoviscoat, as a management buyout of the latest Agfa production line at the time of insolvency, don't own the old Agfa b&w plant, but have a much more modern factory than ever used for APX, and a five year hiatus thrown in - so they cannot simply continue were Agfa left off.

Harman, who went on directly with the Ilford plants, products and staff, had a much smoother transition after Ilford went bankrupt.
I think your comments about these AGFA films are incorrect. The same films here. It states Brand New dated 2013. APX400 is in development and may be available by late 2011, http://www.silverprint.co.uk/Product...asp?PrGrp=2271

I'm also aware of the new Adox films such as Adox Pan 400 http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/adox-pan-400-303-c.asp

But anyway it shows that there are companies prepared to continue making and developing B&W films, at the very least, well into the future at affordable prices.
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Old 10-02-2011   #52
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AgfaPhoto is not the same as Agfa. They've been hawking all kinds of crap under this name (Ferrania, anyone?).

I'm sure Sevo will fill in more details.

My point is this: Of course the trademarks would still be around, and based on the Agfa experience, so would fresh retail stock cut from frozen master rolls, at reasonable prices. However don't assume the same Tri-X will still be available after that.

I think the clock would tick down much faster for color films (E6 in particular), as well as Kodak chemicals.
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Old 10-02-2011   #53
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Well this thread inspired me to print on Ilford paper when my printer to comes to do my part to make sure my favourite film company sticks around forever (or at least until I'm too old to focus manually)
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Old 10-02-2011   #54
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Concerning the APX-stuff:
There is no APX produced right now, stock of Agfa is being sold (as APX itself and Rollei Retro)! Adox hasn't updated their PAN 400 page since december 2010, back that time, they published this text:
"Wir versuchen den ADOX PAN 400 so schnell wie möglich zur Großserienreife zu bringen. Derzeit befinden wir uns im zweiten „scale up“- Stadium in der Forschung. Leider können wir keinen verbindlichen Erscheinungstermin bekannt geben, da dieser maßgeblich vom Fortgang der Forschungsanstrengungen abhängig ist.",
translated into English, this is:
"We try to bring the ADOX PAN 400 as soon as possible to maturity phase. Right now we are at the second "scale-up"-stadium in research. Unfortunately we can't give a bindingly relaese-date, because this is heavily connected to the ongoing research-process."
To me (!) that doesn't sound too good. And they haven't even started to work on the PAN 100!

Another question: Which companies are producing film right now?

Fuji
Kodak
Ilford
Efke
Lucky
Foma

These are the ones, I know, which ones did I forget?
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Old 10-02-2011   #55
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The death of Kodak and demise of film is in fact good for photography and its future.
The death of Kodak means one less option on how to shoot pictures and one more additive to the boring-ness of the photographic look.
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Old 10-02-2011   #56
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if kodak dies...

I vote for Nigel Farage to conduct the funeral! He did a great job with the Euro funeral

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAH3hpCdthw
This is not a funny topic!
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Old 10-02-2011   #57
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This is not a funny topic!
Well to be fair, neither is the death of the Euro

The simple solution is of course to buy and shoot lots of Tri-X! If there's the demand, it will be profitable for Kodak (or some other entity) to produce the supply. Limited or no demand, and well we know how that will end...
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Old 10-02-2011   #58
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Most probably the 'professional' film division will survive or will be spun off to a new entity. Sales of Tri-X, Tmax and developers have more or less stabilized and are enough to sustain a smaller company, but nowhere near the historical size of Kodak. Ilford has off-loaded their b&w film to a smaller new company, and they seem to be doing well (although it appears to be a private company and we do not have their financial data).

In the worst outcome, the technology will be sold to the likes of Efke, Adox or Foma. Still, rights for Tri-X are an asset not to be trifled with, but it may prove difficult for them to reproduce it with consistent quality. Ilford and Fuji will get a better market share in that case.

Anyway, the result will be higher prices, and probably no new analogue R&D to speak of (there probably is none left in Kodak's pipeline anyway), so no new exciting films or chemistry. But we sort of expect that anyway.

Let's face it -- our demand for film is pretty inelastic, as far as most of us here are concerned there is no substitute for it yet. So the die-hard film photographers are a relatively small niche market, but as a whole we are prepared to stay for a while and pay a little more for film and paper. Moreover, I think our numbers have stabilized, and it is even possible that more photographers may convert to film in future.

Personally, I will miss Tri-X if it disappears, but expect that my general need for film will be filled for many years to come with Ilford, Fuji, Adox and Efke products. I do not have the hard evidence to prove it, but still think that the prospects of smaller dedicated producers are good enough to last them a while.

My harder question is: who can produce a good substitute for the late Neopan 1600? Nothing comes close.
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Old 10-02-2011   #59
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Well to be fair, neither is the death of the Euro

The simple solution is of course to buy and shoot lots of Tri-X! If there's the demand, it will be profitable for Kodak (or some other entity) to produce the supply. Limited or no demand, and well we know how that will end...
To my knowledge, > 90% of the demand for Kodak film comes from the movie industry now since surveillance, research and medical imaging has gone digital step-by-step. The few of us still using film won`t buy enough of it to keep the large-scale production lines of Kodak or Fuji busy.

BTW, does anybody know if Fuji still produces any BW film or are they just selling off their stock ?
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Old 10-02-2011   #60
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To my knowledge, > 90% of the demand for Kodak film comes from the movie industry now since surveillance, research and medical imaging has gone digital step-by-step. The few of us still using film won`t buy enough of it to keep the large-scale production lines of Kodak or Fuji […]
This is why I always said (also in this thread) why it'd be good, if give some of our money to Ilford, because they don't produce for an industry, but for us, the photographers. Maybe T-Max is a little finer then Delta and Tri-X more famous than HP5+, but they are comparable and Ilford has something for everyone.
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Old 10-02-2011   #61
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TBH, I've never liked any of Ilford's films. If that's all we had left, I wouldn't care much about film anymore.
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Old 10-02-2011   #62
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TBH, I've never liked any of Ilford's films. If that's all we had left, I wouldn't care much about film anymore.
What about Efke and Foma?
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Old 10-03-2011   #63
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Another question: Which companies are producing film right now?

Fuji
Kodak
Ilford
Efke
Lucky
Foma

These are the ones, I know, which ones did I forget?
Positively Agfa Gevaert (their main non-consumer business never went bankrupt), Filmotec (former Orwo) and Inoviscoat (former Agfa). None of these currently cast a film targeted at the consumer market in production quantity, but they do aerial, technical, x-ray, archiving and other special purpose films - and some of these get rebranded for the enthusiast market, in Germany mostly by Mahn ("Maco" and "Rollei") and Fotoimpex ("Adox"), but there might be more vendors abroad.

Wephota, the former Tura, still seem to be casting micrography emulsions on glass plates. They even have or had a film or two in recent years, but according to some sources that might be cast by Filmotec.

All of the above, and some more, have paper coating facilities - with most luxury inkjet papers essentially being fibre/baryta papers with a silver-free coat, that technology has a second market independent of film photography.

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Old 10-03-2011   #64
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Thanks for the info!
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Old 10-03-2011   #65
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I think your comments about these AGFA films are incorrect. The same films here. It states Brand New dated 2013. APX400 is in development and may be available by late 2011, http://www.silverprint.co.uk/Product...asp?PrGrp=2271
Different things. The film marketed as AgfaPhoto are old APX leftovers from Agfa (I hope so - given that they aren't exactly honest in the expiry dating, they might as well be dishonest altogether, packing something else that they found in their attic). There is no "brand new" APX 100, and there won't be that soon - Adox/Inoviscoat are working on a APX 400 successor (to be marketed under the Adox brand), and have often stated that they will not even begin tackling APX 100 until the market is cleared of the Agfa remains. There is no point in introducing a new premium film as long as a cheap reseller is still trading the faded remains of its predecessor at bargain prices...

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Old 10-03-2011   #66
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I really hope Kodak comes through this, maybe with the film division as a separate entity from the rest of Kodak. If their existence depended on film, then maybe we'd see some more interesting developments. Having said that, in the theoretical event of Kodak going completely bankrupt, and never making film again, Ilford, Fujifilm and the rest would surely see a huge upturn in sales, which may mean interesting times ahead.

Like I say, I hope Kodak makes it past this, for me, they're the all-round best film producer (for me!), especially in colour. For B&W I think alternatives are easy to come by, but for Portra and Ektar, less so.
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Old 10-03-2011   #67
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Hi Sevo
It seems you have some knowledge on this so I'm not doubting the accuracy of what you say. It seems then what these websites are stating is misleading then? Stating that Agfa Photo are developing APX400 which may be available late 2011 implies to me it's not old APX leftovers. That is the way I interpret that line. Or do they have a deal with Adox to re-brand the film they are developing under the Agfa photo name also? If not what is it Agfa Photo are developing?
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Old 10-03-2011   #68
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Hi Sevo
It seems you have some knowledge on this so I'm not doubting the accuracy of what you say. It seems then what these websites are stating is misleading then? Stating that Agfa Photo are developing APX400
AgfaPhoto/Lupus aren't developing or producing anything, except maybe marketing campaigns for the contents of their warehouses and whatever cheap merchandise they currently are buying in - the company that got hold of AgfaPhoto's name after the insolvency is a management buyout of its (consumer) marketing department.

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which may be available late 2011 implies to me it's not old APX leftovers. That is the way I interpret that line. Or do they have a deal with Adox to re-brand the film they are developing under the Agfa photo name also?
Not that I am aware of. It is far more likely that the dealer or importer does not know the difference, or tries to cash in on the hype around the Adox APX revival by misrepresenting the remains of the AgfaPhoto attic as that (not yet available except in test quantities) film...

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Old 10-03-2011   #69
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AgfaPhoto aren't developing or producing anything, except maybe marketing campaigns for the contents of their warehouses and whatever cheap merchandise they currently are buying in - the company that got hold of AgfaPhoto's name after the insolvency is a management buyout of its (consumer) marketing department.



Not that I am aware of. It is far more likely that the dealer or importer does not know the difference, or tries to cash in on the hype around the Adox APX revival by misrepresenting the remains of the AgfaPhoto attic as that (not yet available except in test quantities) film...
I doubt this very much as Silverprint and Ag Photographic are two of the most reputable and knowledgeable dealers in the UK and usually know what they are talking about. I think I will drop them both an email and see what they say.
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Old 10-03-2011   #70
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Another question: Which companies are producing film right now?

Fuji
Kodak
Ilford
Efke
Lucky
Foma

These are the ones, I know, which ones did I forget?
Oh, you have forgotten one of the biggest:
Agfa-Gevaert (Antwerpen, Belgium; www.agfa.com)
They coat about 1 million m² of film products every day! They recently had an official announcement concerning this.
They are producing films for the movie industry, microfilms (e.g. the famous Agfa Copex Rapid and HDP 13 = Adox CMS 20), aerial films, surveillance films and PCB films.
By the way, they are also producing color films, therefore there are not only Kodak, Fuji, Ilford Suisse and Lucky in the color game.

Furthermore there are
Filmotec (Germany)
Shanghai (China)
Tasma (Russia)
Ilford Suisse (Ilford Micrographic color film).

And I really doubt that Kodak will stop film production.
They are profitable.
Due to official Kodak statements the demand for photo film is slowly beginning to stabilize.
Some market segments show even strong growth, e.g. the toy camera movement.
LSI has growth rates of 30 - 100% p.a., they are doubling their film sales this year.
Already more than 1 million lomographers worldwide, and the number is rapidly increasing. Lomo and all the toy camera movement is a mass market now.
In Singapore for example there is a toy camera movement called 'Lomotion' with own forum and more than 7000 participants.
In December the LSI will open a Lomography Gallery Store in Singapore.
Next week they open another one in Santa Monica, some weeks later one in San Francisco and one in Austin, this year an additional one in Sao Paulo, Manchester (UK) and Cologne, Germany.
Next year further big gallery stores will be opened in Chicago, Miami, Mexico City, Edinburgh, Munich, Istanbul, Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, Jakarta, Manila and Seoul.

By the way, 95% of the lomographers are using color film, and 50% of them slide film (especially for cross processing).

The data is against all this color film doom and gloom.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 10-03-2011   #71
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I knew, I forgot some, that's why I asked . I'm a big fan of CoRa myself.
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Old 10-03-2011   #72
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I doubt this very much as Silverprint and Ag Photographic are two of the most reputable and knowledgeable dealers in the UK and usually know what they are talking about. I think I will drop them both an email and see what they say.
Sevo is right.
All currently sold AgfaPhoto APX 100 is still old stock from the last production run in Leverkusen in 2005.

The new production at InovisCoat (emulsion making and coating) and Adox (cutting and spooling) is not working so far.
That is official by Mirko Boedekker from Adox.

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Old 10-03-2011   #73
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I doubt this very much as Silverprint and Ag Photographic are two of the most reputable and knowledgeable dealers in the UK and usually know what they are talking about.
Well, they obviously are wrong in this case. It is very likely AgfaPhoto a.k.a. Lupus Imaging are misrepresenting their film - they aren't exactly into honesty in marketing - and in this case, their marketing drivel did not get filtered out down the line.

At any rate, AgfaPhoto APX100 in this packaging is (and has been, for years) all over Germany - the only readily available black and white film in the neighbourhood drugstore now that its faster brother APX400 is out of stock, and a nice film even given its age, even more so as it often is sold cheaper than Efke or Foma films. But "brand new" it isn't - the last casting was at least seven years ago. The "new APX 100" is not even in the test stage yet, and whenever it will appear, it will not be called Agfa APX 100, but Adox AP100 (just like the "new APX 400" is Adox AP400).
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Old 10-03-2011   #74
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As far, as I remember the "new" PAN 100 won't really be "new", but they want to get as close to the old APX 100 as possible - different to the PAN 400 which shell be competitive and is newly developed, as normal APX 400 today isn't up to the standards.
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Old 10-03-2011   #75
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Ok I've had a reply back from one of the dealers. He has asked me not to quote him or copy and paste his reply onto a forum so I will paraphrase.

The APX100 is original Agfa stock with an expiry date of Dec 2012 which has been nicely packaged by Lupus Imaging who have the rights to use the AGFA Photo brand.

APX 400 and a new APX 100 are currently under development and will probably re-appear next year. They will be made under contract by a third party for Lupus. A 120 version may well see the light of day too.

The Colour films, Precisa and Vista, are made under contract in Japan by Fujifilm for Agfa Photo.
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