light metering

FrankS · 09-17-2005

This topic has been in the back of my mind this morning and I'm going to try to present it in words.

Much has been said about the liberating experience of using a hand held light meter as opposed to the camera's built-in meter, and I totally agree with that. Photogs who have never used an external meter often use their cameras' meters incorrectly, assuming that each time they frame a new image, the aperture or shutter speed dial needs to be adjsuted so that the camera's meter is satisfied. They end up fiddling for 30 sec. or so before each exposure, CHASING THE NEEDLE OF THE METER. By not understanding the nature of reflected light reading, they are often rewarded with incorrect exposures for their trouble. (when the frame contains an unequal mix of light and dark elements especially near the center where the light metering pattern is commonly more sensitive.)

Once you break away from that, and using a handheld meter is a great way of doing so, you will probably realize the problem with this practice. Using (especially an incident type) hand held meter, one begins to better understand the nature of light and the concept of light metering.

Once this understanding is reached and one can use a camera's built in meter correctly without chasing the needle, a built-in meter is more convenient than a separate hand held meter IMO. A hand held meter is an extra object to carry and manipulate. A very small meter that lips onto the camer's hotshoe is a pretty good alternative to both a hand held meter and a built in meter because it allows you to adjust the camera's setting without raising the camera to your eye to see the built in meter. The problem with these meters however, is that even though they are fairly small they do add bulk and they occupy the hotshoe which may be needed for an accessory finder.

Anyway, having used hand held meters extensively, I believe that I can now use a camera's built-in meter effectively and prefer such cameras. My M6 cannot be beat!

(No, my M2, M3, and IIa are not for sale.)

stet · 09-17-2005

Thanks, Frank. I'm soaking in these words now, and rethinking about how I meter. This week I bought a handheld meter (incident and reflected). I haven't gotten a chance to see results yet, but I've been comparing readings between the two modes and the CdS meter on my Canon 7s. It roughly matches the reflected mode on the handheld, but the TTL meter on my Minolta XG-M reads way, way different. I'd like to force myself to use only the handheld for all my cameras for the next few weeks, although carrying the extra gadget for one body, one lens street shots doesn't really appeal to me. I have to learn though.

richard_l · 09-17-2005

An incident mode reading should be the same as a reflected mode reading of an 18% grey area under the same lighting. This is a good way to learn what sort of things one can use to get an accurate reading for a scene using an onboard meter.

A meter is also good for practicing Sunny 16, whether or not you are in the mood to take pictures. Practice guessing exposure using Sunny 16 and check it with an incident reading.

A handheld meter can actually be less obtrusive for street photography, since it allows you to preset exposure before bringing the camera up to your eye. Sunny 16 is the least obtrusive, however.

Richard

FrankS · 09-17-2005

A handheld meter can actually be less obtrusive for street photography, since it allows you to preset exposure before bringing the camera up to your eye.

I've been doing this (preset exposure) using the camera's built-in meter. This is what I've been talking about, rather than "chasing the needle" for each picture.

back alley · 09-17-2005

i sold my leica m4-p and lens cause it did NOT have a meter built in.

i could/would not get used to handheld.

that was a long time ago.

and now, it's hard to imagine using a camera WITH a meter built in.

joe

RJBender · 09-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankS

This topic has been in the back of my mind this morning and I'm going to try to present it in words.

Much has been said about the liberating experience of using a hand held light meter as opposed to the camera's built-in meter, and I totally agree with that. Photogs who have never used an external meter often use their cameras' meters incorrectly, assuming that each time they frame a new image, the aperture or shutter speed dial needs to be adjsuted so that the camera's meter is satisfied. They end up fiddling for 30 sec. or so before each exposure, CHASING THE NEEDLE OF THE METER. By not understanding the nature of reflected light reading, they are often rewarded with incorrect exposures for their trouble. (when the frame contains an unequal mix of light and dark elements especially near the center where the light metering pattern is commonly more sensitive.)

Once you break away from that, and using a handheld meter is a great way of doing so, you will probably realize the problem with this practice. Using (especially an incident type) hand held meter, one begins to better understand the nature of light and the concept of light metering.

Once this understanding is reached and one can use a camera's built in meter correctly without chasing the needle, a built-in meter is more convenient than a separate hand held meter IMO. A hand held meter is an extra object to carry and manipulate. A very small meter that lips onto the camer's hotshoe is a pretty good alternative to both a hand held meter and a built in meter because it allows you to adjust the camera's setting without raising the camera to your eye to see the built in meter. The problem with these meters however, is that even though they are fairly small they do add bulk and they occupy the hotshoe which may be needed for an accessory finder.

Anyway, having used hand held meters extensively, I believe that I can now use a camera's built-in meter effectively and prefer such cameras. My M6 cannot be beat!

(No, my M2, M3, and IIa are not for sale.)

Hi Frank,

You can meter off a gray card with the camera's meter. I've used a gray lens cleaning cloth with a reflective meter in tricky lighting situations.

There's some good information here on using gray cards:
http://www.acecam.com/magazine/gray-card.html

I'd like to train myself to see EV values:
http://www.pinkheadedbug.com/techniques/exposure.html
http://home.pcisys.net/~rlsnpjs/mino...0lv%20asa.html

R.J.

FrankS · 09-17-2005

We don't NEED no fricken' gray card! It's easy to find a medium gray tone in or near the scene. The pavement, a lawn, an open shadow. No problem.

richard_l · 09-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankS

A handheld meter can actually be less obtrusive for street photography, since it allows you to preset exposure before bringing the camera up to your eye.

I've been doing this (preset exposure) using the camera's built-in meter. This is what I've been talking about, rather than "chasing the needle" for each picture.

Right. I only meant that a handheld can be less obtrusive than using an onboard meter (the way most people do: needle chasing).

richard_l · 09-17-2005

A grey card works just as well as incident metering, but it is still one more thing to mess with, cancelling one of the advantages of using an onboard meter instead of a handheld.

FrankS · 09-17-2005

I agree. I would not be caught dead metering off a grey card. Nothing screams "photo student" louder. I"m not quibbling the fact that it works, there're just way easier ways, eg. incident meter.

richard_l · 09-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankS

I agree. I would not be caught dead metering off a grey card. Nothing screams "photo student" louder.

Yes, it's like using training wheels with a bicycle.

Still, it's a a big step in the right direction beyond crude, inaccurate "needle chasing." Maybe R.J. is just not concerned about keeping up appearances.

FrankS · 09-17-2005

Yes, it's like using training wheels with a bicycle. Still, it's a a big step in the right direction beyond crude, inaccurate "needle chasing."

Agreed! But using a gray card is only a step along the way of learning light metering, not an end point. Using a gray card for meering is like training wheels on a bike, something one hopes to get beyond. Once competent in light metering, it is certainly no longer necessary. Not something I would use after 30 years experience in photography.

RJBender · 09-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankS

We don't NEED no fricken' gray card! It's easy to find a medium gray tone in or near the scene. The pavement, a lawn, an open shadow. No problem.

Hey Frank,

You're not afraid to ask a total stranger on the street to hold a gray card for you, are you?

After I posted, I read your second post indicating that you wanted to apply these techniques to street photography. Sorry, I thought we were discussing metering theory in general.

R.J.

FrankS · 09-17-2005

Who knows? It could make a funny series of images. Street people of various kinds, holding up grey cards!

Interesting unifying theme.

Hektor · 09-17-2005

What about a spotmeter (pentax) ? I had to shoot a white car on a green lawn last weekend in strong sunlight. HP5 film was already in the camera. M2, 35 Summaron. I used perceptol.

Hmmm, wish I'd used XP2.

FrankS · 09-17-2005

Easy. Strong sunlight = f16.

Hektor · 09-17-2005

perceptol - f11.

there's too much contrast in the scene, only a spotmeter or a lot of experience will tell you that.

it is a pain having to use a separate meter though.

Toby · 09-17-2005

I have to say that the ability to understand and use an incident handheld meter is a cornerstone to becoming a really good photographer. I know spending $$$ on a light meter is not as appealing as buying a new lens but I think I would still rather have a good light meter and a cheap slr than an M6 and no way of reading incident light if I was shooting colour slide. I know some people don't get on with them but it is the only way to really learn about exposure (coupled with exhaustive testing and its application in the field). A spot meter still depends on reflected light ( although I do own one they are most useful as a measure of contrast).

P.S.
My only qualification to this statement is buy a recognised brand and buy it new. If not new get it calibrated before you use it if you are not 100% confident in your meter it is a waste of time (this statement copyright the bitter experience school of photography)

P.P.S Remember when using incident meters they do not compensate of any effective change in f-stop that comes at closest focus like TTL. For example I own a Pentax 67 165mm lens that loses 1/3 stop at closest focus compared to infinity (also (c) bitter experience school of photography)

Roman · 09-17-2005

Couldn't agree more - nothing beats incident metering when it comes to max. accuracy & min. effort (except in very few difficult light situations).

Roman

Hektor · 09-18-2005

The best thing about a lightmeter is when you really know how to use it ......
you don't need it anymore !

Film dino · 09-18-2005

It would be interesting to know how people on the forum meter scenes with a handheld- for example do you take reflected readings from both shadow areas & highlights or do you habitually only take an incident reading on your main subject?

IMO taking 2-3 readings at the beginning of a session- whether using built in or handheld meter, is usually good enough if one knows the brightness range.

Dave H · 09-18-2005

Using an incident meter has led me into a phobia about using the Aperture Priority on my cameras, so much so that now I only use it in emergency situations.

back alley · 09-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Film dino

It would be interesting to know how people on the forum meter scenes with a handheld- for example do you take reflected readings from both shadow areas & highlights or do you habitually only take an incident reading on your main subject?

IMO taking 2-3 readings at the beginning of a session- whether using built in or handheld meter, is usually good enough if one knows the brightness range.

i mostly take relective readings but sometimes incident too if the mood strikes.

my main method is to meter in all directions but my final readings are with the meter pointed downwards, usually at the pavement and i go with those readings.

joe

FrankS · 09-18-2005

my readings are with the meter pointed downwards, usually at the pavement and i go with those readings.

That's how I do it, too!

richard_l · 09-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave H

Using an incident meter has led me into a phobia about using the Aperture Priority on my cameras, so much so that now I only use it in emergency situations.

AP is a deterrent to accurate exposure unless one centers an appropriate area in the finder, sets the exposure lock, then recomposes the scene before firing the shutter, all of which just amounts to setting the exposure manually. However, thanks to center-weighted averaging and the wide lattitude of most film, AP can often determine an acceptable exposure even when used naively.