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Kodak Shares Drop 25%
Old 09-26-2011   #1
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Kodak Shares Drop 25%

After Cash Call
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Old 09-26-2011   #2
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This is getting grim.
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Old 09-26-2011   #3
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"Kodak, synonymous with film photography for more than one hundred years, has struggled to adapt to the digital age and has not made a profit since 2007."

Doesn't Kodak still provide digital sensors for most digital cameras? Where are Canon and Nikon going to get sensors for their bodies if Kodak stops making them? Is it remotely possible that the wise analysts that claimed the only way Kodak could survive in the "digital age" was to pursue digital imaging technology were talking out their ass?
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Old 09-26-2011   #4
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Whose stock hasn't been slammed the last few days? I wonder how much of the hit has been everyone cutting risk at once.

At least the price of silver is way down. If that correction holds, its good for film users in general.
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Old 09-26-2011   #5
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Sell off the sensor devision.
Focus on core business. Make film.
Innovate new films for the digital age.
Make cheap films for Holga's
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Old 09-26-2011   #6
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Quote:
Kodak looked to play down the fears over its cash flow, pointing to the fact that it had $957 in cash on its books at the end of June.
Apparently, inflation has not caught up at Kodak yet.
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Old 09-26-2011   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogier View Post
Sell off the sensor devision.
Focus on core business. Make film.
Innovate new films for the digital age.
Make cheap films for Holga's
Actually, the shareholders would do better to sell the whole company knowing the only piece an aquifers wants is the sensor group. that would leave e remaining dirty work of killing and piecing out the rest of the company to the new owner.
As for analysts, they are only paid to look at $$, and right now the pond is shrinking for Kodak.
A sad story. Just more evidence that the days of film are extremely numbered.
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Old 09-26-2011   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekF View Post
Apparently, inflation has not caught up at Kodak yet.
I believe that part of the article is wrong, due to the fact that the wording seems weird and because the kodak representative talks about how they certainly didn't blow through 957 MILLION dollars in june.
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Old 09-26-2011   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
Doesn't Kodak still provide digital sensors for most digital cameras? Where are Canon and Nikon going to get sensors for their bodies if Kodak stops making them? Is it remotely possible that the wise analysts that claimed the only way Kodak could survive in the "digital age" was to pursue digital imaging technology were talking out their ass?
Canon makes their own sensors. Nikon sensors are made by Sony and some by Nikon. Kodak only make sensors for a few specialist manufacturers, but they do get royalties on their patents from all the manufacturers. The main concern if Kodak went bust would be where Leica would source their sensors for the M9.

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Old 09-26-2011   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
Doesn't Kodak still provide digital sensors for most digital cameras? Where are Canon and Nikon going to get sensors for their bodies if Kodak stops making them?
They don't. If Kodak made sensors for Canon and Nikon, they would be doing pretty well. Leica must be considering other sensor suppliers in the event that Kodak goes bust.
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Old 09-26-2011   #11
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So Leica is making a bit of money right now. They should buy the sensor division... In a perfect world they'd buy the film division too.

And in a perfect world I'd have a 1967 275 GTB Ferrari.
But now I ride a bike and take the subway...

Sad times. I'm buying up 5222 Kodak XX in preparation!

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Old 09-26-2011   #12
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Someone at some point will liberate the film from all this digital R&D. It's a very respectable global business that is not unprofitable on its own; it's not huge however and growth prospects are minimal. It's definitely something for a small company to do, not a giant multinational.

I believe btw that SONY makes many of Nikon's sensors. Canon I don't know.
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Old 09-26-2011   #13
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Yeah right, if Leica would buy the film devision a roll of Leica Tr-X would cost $25........


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
So Leica is making a bit of money right now. They should buy the sensor division... In a perfect world they'd buy the film division too.

And in a perfect world I'd have a 1967 275 GTB Ferrari.
But now I ride a bike and take the subway...

Sad times. I'm buying up 5222 Kodak XX in preparation!

Phil Forrest
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Old 09-27-2011   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrow6224 View Post
Someone at some point will liberate the film from all this digital R&D. It's a very respectable global business that is not unprofitable on its own; it's not huge however and growth prospects are minimal. It's definitely something for a small company to do, not a giant multinational.

I believe btw that SONY makes many of Nikon's sensors. Canon I don't know.
Very sensible words spoken here, Sir! Someone willing to restructure this part of Kodak into a smaller company would have nice income from it, especially if those future Leica&Tri-X purists decide to stick with it.

And if not, Efke and Foma will take Kodaks seat happily. They are that smaller company already.
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Old 09-27-2011   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
Doesn't Kodak still provide digital sensors for most digital cameras? Where are Canon and Nikon going to get sensors for their bodies if Kodak stops making them? Is it remotely possible that the wise analysts that claimed the only way Kodak could survive in the "digital age" was to pursue digital imaging technology were talking out their ass?

Sony makes all of Nikon's sensors (with additional design input from Nikon, but even the d3s is actually primarily designed and fabbed by Sony). Canon make their own sensors. Panasonic make the Micro 4/3rds sensors (and sell them to Olympus). Pentax use Sony sensors. Only Leica and a couple of Medium Format manufacturers seem to use Kodak sensors. Sony would be the largest sensor designer manufacturer and Leica would be looking to use them even if Kodak didn't "go under" for their great High ISO, Live View capabilities (including potential EVF) and cheaper costings.
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Old 09-27-2011   #16
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Kodak has not really earned any income in recent years in the traditional sense, yet they have received a fair amount of cash flow through patents an litigation. Though Kodak was slow to embrace digital technology outright, they do have patents on a lot of basic digital technology used by many other manufacturers.

As for the stock devaluation, everyone got hit hard last week. Look for a little improvement in a day or two when the market swings the other way.
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Old 09-27-2011   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamenS View Post
Sony makes all of Nikon's sensors (with additional design input from Nikon, but even the d3s is actually primarily designed and fabbed by Sony). Canon make their own sensors. Panasonic make the Micro 4/3rds sensors (and sell them to Olympus). Pentax use Sony sensors. Only Leica and a couple of Medium Format manufacturers seem to use Kodak sensors. Sony would be the largest sensor designer manufacturer and Leica would be looking to use them even if Kodak didn't "go under" for their great High ISO, Live View capabilities (including potential EVF) and cheaper costings.
Nikon probably sells the steppers to Sony that Sony uses to make sensors for Nikon. Weird world innit
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Old 09-27-2011   #18
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Just more evidence that the days of film are extremely numbered.
All our days are numbered. I don't think Kodak's problems tell us very much about the health of the film market at all. You need to delve deeper to understand what has gone wrong at Kodak.
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Old 09-27-2011   #19
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I do not feel qualified to comment the possible strategies but just hink that in the last weeks most of shares of many companies drop their values very much. Of course this does not solve the Kodak problems and I understand that the shareholders desire a profit.
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Old 09-27-2011   #20
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Most share movements reflect partially-witted hysteria by the financially overprivileged who haven't the faintest idea of what they're investing in.

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Old 09-27-2011   #21
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All our days are numbered. I don't think Kodak's problems tell us very much about the health of the film market at all. You need to delve deeper to understand what has gone wrong at Kodak.
Failing to appoint Carl Kohrt as CEO in about 1999-2000 was arguably the turning point. Instead of a scientist/engineer, they appointed a salesman, with more salesmen afterwards.

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Old 09-27-2011   #22
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Failing to appoint Carl Kohrt as CEO in about 1999-2000 was arguably the turning point. Instead of a scientist/engineer, they appointed a salesman, with more salesmen afterwards.

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Old 09-27-2011   #23
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Yeah right, if Leica would buy the film devision a roll of Leica Tr-X would cost $25........
You mean, for 12exp roll?
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Old 09-27-2011   #24
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Yeah right, if Leica would buy the film devision a roll of Leica Tr-X would cost $25........
But then again, it would come with a shiny red dot
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Old 09-27-2011   #25
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I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the film division of Kodak was the one division that was going best, i.e. loosing the least amount of money.

It was the digital imaging division that was the biggest black hole for the once huge company.

Feel free to check it up, I'm over my ears at work.
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Old 10-03-2011   #26
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Give it a couple of more months, they will go bankrupt.
The writings on the wall.
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Old 10-03-2011   #27
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the problem with making sensors is that it's highly dependent on semiconductor expertise....which is all in taiwan and korea at the moment. Probably headed to Shenzhen give or take 5 years.

A strategic partnership with Intel and their 22 nanometer chip fabs expertise (the only significant American expertise left - I think AMD is struggling in this respect) would be really nice for developing new CMOS/CCD chips that are competitive with Asia. Could they also compete with photographic displays?

How does their film line look like? Maybe worthwhile to streamline Apple style into just Tri-X, Portra, and a slide film, and make the developer process easy for the chemistry-challenged. I agree this should be self sustaining some how.

I think they really need someone who is both good in management AND engineering, where most people are either good in one and not the other.

Why couldn't this be good news for once, i.e. "used summilux prices drop 25%"? :/
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