Best Build Quality Medium Format Rangefinder

[ChrisP]

Like the title says, whats the best build quality medium format rangefinder with normal lens under approx 2 grand (preferably alot under that). I hear the Mamiya 7 is a fantastic camera but the build sucks. so whats better? I'm fine with a camera the size of an E-3/d300/7d so as long as its not huge thats fine, but whats going to feel fantastic in my hands.

Thanks in advance,
Chris

[Frank Version Two]

For a modern camera, the Fuji GW690III is completely solid and quite rugged, with nothing rattling or gimmicky... it is a metal body sheathed in engineered plastic, I'd say the build quality is more or less on par with a Nikon D300 body. The image quality is arguably the best possible in the format, very sharp, contrasty, and I found even the bokeh to be pleasing. I bought near mint ones for $700, but beware of the heavily used ones on eBay.

They are noticeably more solid that the Mamiya rangefinders, which I think are really poorly designed, regardless of plastic/metal issues. They don't break down so much as irritate....

Otherwise, that new Fuji-Voightlander 6x7 folder seems to be the class leader but it pushes your budget.

Older German folders can be very nice too but I'll defer to experts. I think the front struts are the weak points for most of them.

Frankly, none of these are close to being Leica quality build-wise. I guess if they were we could never afford them. But they are very utilitarian and quite practical picture making machines and a 6x7 or 6x9 negative blows anything smaller away.

[keytarjunkie]

Maybe a Koni-Omega? I've never held one to be honest, but they look like you could smack someone over the head with it.

I think the Mamiya 7 will be more than durable enough to suit your needs though.

[richardvanle]

You should really try or rent a Mamiya 7 before saying things like "the build sucks." Those are tough cameras that feel good in the hand and give you excellent results.

[rpsawin]

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro

That's the internet for ya

The Mamiya 7/7ii uses plastic for the shutter speed dial, shutter button, on/off switch and other external parts (just like lots of manufacturers ) so feels a bit plasticky but it has a plastic coated metal body. Unless you beat the crap out of your gear, its plenty tough IMO. The only weak spot is the "light shield curtain closing lever handle" on the base.

Yep...great camera and top flight lenses.

Bob

[inSIGHT]

I just got my bronica rf645 in the mail tonight and it feels pretty solid to me. I take it pretty easy on my gear though. I'll see how it holds up.

[raid]

I experienced spacing problems with my Koni-Omega. I could have been my incorrect film loading practices though. The Fuji G690BL is built like a rock. Yes, its lenses are awesome.

[mbohara]

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro

That's the internet for ya

The Mamiya 7/7ii uses plastic for the shutter speed dial, shutter button, on/off switch and other external parts (just like lots of manufacturers ) so feels a bit plasticky but it has a plastic coated metal body. Unless you beat the crap out of your gear, its plenty tough IMO. The only weak spot is the "light shield curtain closing lever handle" on the base.

I sort of have to disagree here...

Yes, the 7 is adequate, and if you treat it like any sane human being it'll do fine for a very very long time. Regardless of this, it's leagues below any M camera, or even a modern DSLR. Would I want it built sturdier though? Probably not. It's about having a compact, fairly lightweight 6x7.

Should any of this banter decide whether or not you actually purchase one? Absolutely not. The fact that it's brilliant in all other regards should.

They don't fare well being dropped, though what camera does? Ask me how I know...

[Steve M.]

Rolleiflex or Hasselblad come to mind. Great build quality, great lenses. Not rangefinders, but maybe the best in terms of quality. I never liked the feel or the IQ of the Japanese MF rangefinders compared to these two. When you start toting a MF camera around daily, you'll form a new appreciation for some of the better old folders.

[KoNickon]

I would agree about the Koni-Omegas and the older Fujis like the BL690. (Raid, maybe your Koni back just needed a CLA -- send it to Greg Weber.) A Super Ikonta folder is a wonderful thing also.

[eleskin]

The Mamiya Universal Press is built like a tank! If I did not know it was Japanese, I would swear it was a collaborative effort between German's and Russian's! You could clock someone over the head with the body and it probably would not show any damage! This camera is a beast, plain and simple! Heavy but a beast!

[Frank Version Two]

The Mamiya Universal Press is built kind of like a Soviet Tank. I don't know if that means quality really, but it is a good weapon.

I'm sorry for offending all the Mamiya 7 owners ;-p

Build Quality can mean different things. A Hasselblad or Rolleiflex can be very finely made compared to a Fuji or even the Mamiya tank, but a few grains of sand can seize them in seconds.... I think the Mamiya Press might pulverize the sand and dent any concrete it gets dropped on. But it is still a crudely built camera in comparison to the finer German models.

Which is the better design depends on your needs and taste....

[JamesFromSydney]

Linhof 6x9 Technika is within your budget and... it's a Linhof.

[Phil_F_NM]

Another vote for the Fuji G690BL or the GM670 which is basically the same camera but shoots a 2cm smaller frame width-wise. The Fujinon lenses for the older Fuji RFs are amazing. The 65mm lenses are just as good as the Schneider Super Angulons in any format. I owned the 65mm f/8 and falloff was less prevalent than the Leica 21mm Super Angulon at f/8. The 100mm is an awesome normal. The longer lenses are a git harder to find but just as good. considering that they have excellent Fuji coatings and were top of the line at their time, they still can usually run circles around anything in a smaller format regardless of brand.
The RF mechanism is quite accurate and has a very wide baselength with a big finder. It's easy to take off the top plate and give the internals a cleaning. Considering the camera body is simply a box with a rangefinder on it, one can fix many issues oneself if handy with some camera repair.
My G690BL was way quieter than any Leica I've ever owned. Just the click of the leaf shutter.

And they make good flails on the end of a sturdy strap. A formidable weapon.

Phil Forrest

[CK Dexter Haven]

Originally Posted by richardvanle

You should really try or rent a Mamiya 7 before saying things like "the build sucks." Those are tough cameras that feel good in the hand and give you excellent results.

Seriously.
............

[CK Dexter Haven]

Originally Posted by inSIGHT

I just got my bronica rf645 in the mail tonight and it feels pretty solid to me. I take it pretty easy on my gear though. I'll see how it holds up.

I had a Brf645 for a short bit. It did feel solid. I liked it. But, the rangefinder needed to be calibrated almost immediately. And, then the electronics crapped out. It started draining the batteries to zero while it was switched off. I sent it back to the vendor (KEH). They didn't/couldn't fix it. They sent it on to Tamron, and Tamron either couldn't fix it or they lost it. Either way, i never saw it again.

I'm ridiculously "easy on my gear" and ran fewer than five rolls through it the entire time i owned it. Sad thing. I almost bought one again, so i'm not assuming my issues are the rule, but i have read at least one or two rf645 'electronics-related' stories in this forum... and that seems like a lot for a camera not that 'widely held.'

[sanmich]

Originally Posted by raid

I experienced spacing problems with my Koni-Omega. I could have been my incorrect film loading practices though. The Fuji G690BL is built like a rock. Yes, its lenses are awesome.

The KO is heavy, but I doubt it qualifies as a supremely well-built camera.
One important design flaw on these is that you can partially actuate the advance, and the camera won't record it.
This will yield a large gap between frames, but more important, a last frame that is out of the film...

For me, the only really well built MF camera I know, in the sense Leica is well built, would be the Hassie...

[Texsport]

Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM

Another vote for the Fuji G690BL or the GM670 which is basically the same camera but shoots a 2cm smaller frame width-wise. The Fujinon lenses for the older Fuji RFs are amazing. The 65mm lenses are just as good as the Schneider Super Angulons in any format. I owned the 65mm f/8 and falloff was less prevalent than the Leica 21mm Super Angulon at f/8. The 100mm is an awesome normal. The longer lenses are a git harder to find but just as good. considering that they have excellent Fuji coatings and were top of the line at their time, they still can usually run circles around anything in a smaller format regardless of brand.
The RF mechanism is quite accurate and has a very wide baselength with a big finder. It's easy to take off the top plate and give the internals a cleaning. Considering the camera body is simply a box with a rangefinder on it, one can fix many issues oneself if handy with some camera repair.
My G690BL was way quieter than any Leica I've ever owned. Just the click of the leaf shutter.

And they make good flails on the end of a sturdy strap. A formidable weapon.

Phil Forrest

+1 for the Fujica interchangeable lens cameras.

Texsport

[JohnTF]

Fuji also has made a number of 645 RF's, including two AF/AE models. I've used most of them, if you are looking for a smaller size to carry, image quality is very good.

The GSW690 is a tough camera, it looks like plastic, but it is much tougher. Excellent image quality.

I have had the folder in my pocket when I would normally not have had a MF camera, and when the opportunity presented itself in Paris, I had what I needed.

The large Fuji, is not too heavy, except the interchangeable lens version, but it is large. "Texas Leica"

Regards, John

[HoodedOne]

+1 for the Mamiya Universal / Polaroid GOOSE (600SE)

Heavy, sturdy, build like a tank. And the faces of the people, when they see what you are carrying around are awesome.
And the Mamiya Press system has probably the best rollfilm backs ever.

[mrisney]

Definitely not the Mamiya 6, I dropped mine from slightly above waste high onto concrete
and Mamiya charged $530 to rebuild, at least they did.

For durability. my vote is the Fuji 645S.
Bomber -metal body, with a fricking' lens bar/guard around it, I mean c'mon ...

[DamenS]

Any of the older rangefinders if "feel" is most important. Personally I'm happy with a Fuji GW690III, but you may not like its plastic exterior, so (in approx. descending size order):

Linhof Technika 70
Crown (Century) 23 Graphic (several different models)
Mamiya Universal/Polaroid 600se
Koni-Omega
Fuji G690, GL690, G670, GM670
Converted Polaroid such as 110b/Numerous Folders
Bronica rf645

[Abbazz]

Originally Posted by Texsport

+1 for the Fujica interchangeable lens cameras.

Yep, sturdy machines, I would say.

Those big Fujis are so basic that they are almost indestructible. There is no electronics (no battery) and almost no moving part inside the camera body, because the leaf shutter is located inside the lens. If it fails, you just mount another lens while you have the shutter repaired -- an easy task since the shutter is a pretty standard Seiko 0. Inside the body, the most fail-prone part is the darkslide but, if it fails, it won't prevent you from taking pictures, only from changing the lens with the camera loaded.

These cameras have been used for years by professional photographers in Japan to make portraits and souvenir pictures at most tourists spots. The Fujis had to wthstand taking thousands of pictures in all kind of weather, all year long. And they are still in great shape today!

Cheers!

Abbazz

[thegman]

I used to have a Mamiya 7, and my brother used to have GF670. The GF670 is a much nicer build IMHO, akin to a Zeiss Ikon I'd say. The Mamiya, well not sure what I'd compare it to, but it would probably not be flattering.

The results from the Mamiya are stunning though, as they are from the GF670. The GF670 lens a tad soft wide open, but many would prefer that.

For flexibility, of course it's the Mamiya, as it's got interchangeable lenses. For build/looks and general sexiness, easily the GF670. I think it's a testament to Cosina and Fujifilm that a medium format folder got made these days, and kind of telling how usable and light it is compared to "modern" cameras, not to mention the technical image quality.

[Roger Hicks]

Linhof, no question, preferably Tech 70; but that only goes to show that build quality ain't everything.

Cheers,

R.