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Digital Leica M8 / M8.2 / M9 / M-E /Mono / M10 aka "M" Discussions about the Leica M8 /M 8.2 / M9 / M9-P/ M-E / M Monochrom / M10 aka "M": Leica digital M mount rangefinder cameras. Naming the new digital M the "Leica M" is VERY unfortunate as it will only confuse newbies with other Leica M cameras of the the past. Happily there is room for confusion with only the past 59 years of Leica M production ... since Leica introduced the Leica M system in 1953. All Hail for the Leica Marketing Department learning Leica M history!

View Poll Results: Which sensor would you like to see in the M10?
Kodak CCD 159 37.32%
Japanese CMOS (canon/sony) 142 33.33%
Foveon X3 (sigma/kodak) 109 25.59%
Japanese Nikon/Sony 16 3.76%
Voters: 426. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-21-2011   #76
gavinlg
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Quote:
Have a look at some of these sd1 photographs in the links below (full size images so are BIG) and try to tell me the foveon has the worst color...

1

2

3

4

5

6

Hmmm no one has anything to say about these? Current technical issues aside, I'd love to see this sort of low ISO IQ from a leica digital body!

Last edited by gavinlg : 09-26-2011 at 03:52.
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Old 09-27-2011   #77
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I'm sorry, but to my eyes the color of these examples is not even close to the colors obtainable with a good CCD sensor. Quite apart from the fact that a Foveon has too small an acceptance angle, this would not be what I am looking for in my M.
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Old 09-28-2011   #78
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Anything that would give decent image quality but allow them to sell the camera for $3-4K.

It's so ironic that wealthy amateurs can afford the current M9 but very few professionals can.

I said it was ironic, not making any judgment beyond that.
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Old 10-02-2011   #79
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Kodak definitely - I need a film maker company to make a film maker sensor at best.
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Old 10-04-2011   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablito View Post

It's so ironic that wealthy amateurs can afford the current M9 but very few professionals can.

I said it was ironic, not making any judgment beyond that.
The wealthy can always afford what they want. Others (e.g., me) need to affix prices on need and want. Even so, lots of pros would not want to use an M9 even if it were cheaper.
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Old 10-28-2011   #81
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It's so ironic that wealthy amateurs can afford the current M9 but very few professionals can.
Perhaps those amatuers skimp on other things in order to afford an M9, such as a house, a car, expensive clothing, etc? The only thing of real value that I have is my M9 and my life.
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Old 10-28-2011   #82
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Perhaps those amatuers skimp on other things in order to afford an M9, such as a house, a car, expensive clothing, etc? The only thing of real value that I have is my M9 and my life.
Hehe... I'm a working photographer and this crosses my mind from time to time. So romantic - just you, your leica, and the world.
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Old 11-01-2011   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Perhaps those amatuers skimp on other things in order to afford an M9, such as a house, a car, expensive clothing, etc? The only thing of real value that I have is my M9 and my life.

And all your organs I hope!
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Old 11-02-2011   #84
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And all your organs I hope!
Well, yeah... but that goes along with life for me.
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Old 11-02-2011   #85
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On this topic has everyone seen the interview with Stefan Daniel? He talks a bit about the future of M-mount cameras, and it sounds like CMOS is on the cards.

http://www.megapixel.co.il/english/archive/23834

Q: Do you see any demand from your M line users for video in their cameras and is there a chance we shall see a move from CCD to CMOS in the M10?

A: Offering additional functions such as video and live view would extend the usability of the M camera significantly. CMOS is a prerequisite for it, therefore it will be the technology of the future.

Q: If you look at the DXOMARK results of the M9 you can see that the ISO marks are considerably lower than other full frame cameras. Do you see this as one of the major things you would like to improve in the next M version?


A:
The reason why this is lower lies in the special circumstances of the M-System. It is quite complicated, but I will try to make it short: M-lenses hit the sensor in a flat angle, therefore they are the most compact on the market and older lenses are compatible with M8 and M9. This flat angle will not allow us to use interference IR cut coating on the sensor cover glass, as this would cause uncontrollable color fringes. Instead of, we use an absorption filter, which is not sensible to different light angles, but does filter much more of the visible light as interference filters, and therefore the signal from the sensor needs to be amplified much more which results in a lower light sensitivity. Of course, having a higher sensitivity of the sensor is an issue and we put a significant amount of effort in improving this.”
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Old 11-03-2011   #86
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It sounds like the M10 will not be a M camera as we have known it. Perhaps the end of an era.
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Old 11-03-2011   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
It sounds like the M10 will not be a M camera as we have known it. Perhaps the end of an era.
sad but true, I must take care of my "poor" ccd-based M9...
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Old 11-03-2011   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
It sounds like the M10 will not be a M camera as we have known it. Perhaps the end of an era.
Why, because the next M camera might have a video function?

When the M6 came out, people probably said that it was an end of an era because the new camera had a meter.

When the M7 came out, people probably said that it was an end of an era because the new camera had an Aperture Priority mode.

When the M8 came out, people probably said that it was an end of an era because Leica finally went digital (with the M bodies, at least).

Leica needs to keep up with the times in order to survive.

As long as the cameras continue to use the M Mount, look similar, and function similarly to the previous bodies, I don't see much of a problem.


... Unless I missed something in the article (which may very well be the case - I've been busy with work so my attention span is dwindling).
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Old 11-04-2011   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeicaFan View Post
Why, because the next M camera might have a video function?
Partly, yes. However, I just don't even think it'll look like a M camera anymore. It's JUST an opinion.

Quote:
When the M6 came out, people probably said that it was an end of an era because the new camera had a meter.

When the M7 came out, people probably said that it was an end of an era because the new camera had an Aperture Priority mode.
I doubt it...they were still undeniably M cameras. Perhaps the M5.

Quote:
When the M8 came out, people probably said that it was an end of an era because Leica finally went digital (with the M bodies, at least).
Probably true.

Quote:
Leica needs to keep up with the times in order to survive.

As long as the cameras continue to use the M Mount, look similar, and function similarly to the previous bodies, I don't see much of a problem.
I agree... but for some reason, I just feel like the M10 won't resemble the M camera as we currently know it.
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Old 11-04-2011   #90
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I don't know if Leica will change the look of it. What is the incentive? What is there to gain?

Leica has kept the M bodies very similar for 60 years. It is very easy to recognize a Leica because of that. Changing the design now would undo everything.

Just my opinion...
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Old 11-07-2011   #91
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Well, Kodak doesn't make sensors anymore, so it ain't gonna be a Kodak.
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Old 11-07-2011   #92
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Partly, yes. However, I just don't even think it'll look like a M camera anymore. It's JUST an opinion.



I doubt it...they were still undeniably M cameras. Perhaps the M5.



Probably true.



I agree... but for some reason, I just feel like the M10 won't resemble the M camera as we currently know it.


Maybe they do need to break a little with tradition ... but if they offend their loyal followers with something that doesn't shout 'Leica' from fifty feet away all hell could break loose!
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Old 11-07-2011   #93
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If/when the M10 debuts (Leica sell all the M9s they can produce, so there's not a hurry on their part to devalue a lot of folks' $7-8k investment), it will be a CMOS sensor. Similar megapixels, better high-ISO performance.
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Old 11-17-2011   #94
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Maybe not, since kodak has now sold their sensor division.. I think kodak will still be used..
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Old 11-17-2011   #95
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Maybe not, since kodak has now sold their sensor division.. I think kodak will still be used..
Leica has said CMOS is the future... it's in a interview available on the internet somewhere.
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Old 11-17-2011   #96
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Leica has said CMOS is the future... it's in a interview available on the internet somewhere.
It's linked in post #86 in this thread.
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Old 11-19-2011   #97
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CMOS, Gimmee the ISO!
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Old 11-19-2011   #98
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Why can't I vote for T-max, Leica make no distinction between it's digital and film in it's model numbering scheme, so the M10 could in theory a film model before the Digital M11.
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Old 11-19-2011   #99
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CMOS, Gimmee the ISO!
Hmm, I rather prefer the image quality at base ISO
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Old 11-21-2011   #100
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The Fujifilm "LX" rumors have it using organic sensor technology, which seems ideal for a top end rangefinder camera. The buzz now is that Leica wants in on the act. Assuming that the Kodak spinoff is out and that everyone has a Sony sensor, Fuji does make sense. A 60Mpix full frame organic sensor is possible, but don't know about the timeline. Of course, like any new technology, the reality is always less than the promise.
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