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Digital Leica M8 / M8.2 / M9 / M-E /Mono / M10 aka "M" Discussions about the Leica M8 /M 8.2 / M9 / M9-P/ M-E / M Monochrom / M10 aka "M": Leica digital M mount rangefinder cameras. Naming the new digital M the "Leica M" is VERY unfortunate as it will only confuse newbies with other Leica M cameras of the the past. Happily there is room for confusion with only the past 59 years of Leica M production ... since Leica introduced the Leica M system in 1953. All Hail for the Leica Marketing Department learning Leica M history!

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Old 08-16-2011   #26
jaapv
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I'm a bit confused about this out of warranty affair. Each serious repair brings its own certificate for a year's guaranty on the whole camera, and Leica offers the purchase of an extended guaranty.
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Old 08-17-2011   #27
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I'm a bit confused about this out of warranty affair. Each serious repair brings its own certificate for a year's guaranty on the whole camera, and Leica offers the purchase of an extended guaranty.
Hmm well then Leica owes me two years warranty, my camera has been back now 2 times and is going back for a 3rd time to finish repairs that have taken months and months to do, Leica Solms is a mess in my opinion - a bunch of unprofessional very confused people, they had my camera for over 2 months and did nothing with it and Leica NJ has had it now again and will get it back to repair things that they didn't take care of in the first place.

My 11 year old M6 works better and is way more dependable, though sadly most of my clients want digital, b/c it's faster for them

Tom
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Old 08-17-2011   #28
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If the M9 and M8 do not satisfy you, then I'd get shot of them. I think 99% of the reason we buy Leicas and the like is the feeling they give us. If you're not getting that feeling, then I'd trade them in, get something like a 5D, and use the change to travel and stock up on film for the M4.

Alternatively, maybe tell Leica of your feelings and maybe rather than make you wait for a repair, they could give you a replacement right away, at least on loan.
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Old 08-17-2011   #29
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Doesn't the m9 come with adobe lightroom? If so, lightroom removes them automatically. Every digital camera I've ever owned has has stuck or dead pixels. It's normal. Just either run a pixel map in-camera (if you shoot jpegs) or use lightroom and never see it every again - it's hardly a camera problem...
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Old 08-17-2011   #30
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Come on, if my D90 can make flawless images time after time after time why would Leica be unable to achieve such competence?

I love my Barnacks and my M2 but I don't even consider the 8's or 9's.
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Old 08-17-2011   #31
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Originally Posted by ray*j*gun View Post
Come on, if my D90 can make flawless images time after time after time why would Leica be unable to achieve such competence?

I love my Barnacks and my M2 but I don't even consider the 8's or 9's.
A hotpixel does not prevent you from taking flawless images. I bet there are enough D90 out there with hotpixels but the image software takes good care of that so most users never know they have this problem.
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Old 08-17-2011   #32
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Originally Posted by ray*j*gun View Post
Come on, if my D90 can make flawless images time after time after time why would Leica be unable to achieve such competence?

I love my Barnacks and my M2 but I don't even consider the 8's or 9's.
Bet any money your d90 has hot pixel/s. If you shoot raw you wouldn't notice them anyway - they get sampled out in the conversion by most software.
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Old 08-17-2011   #33
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...and kind of sick of digital as a result.
So far, the cameras are glorious disappointments in reliability. They
are fantastic implementations of some kind of ideal but when the rubber
meets the road they don't work reliably. Leica has dropped the ball and
while I love them and their products, they may have lost me for future
new purchases due to their equipment failures.
I totally agree with you. One of my M8s had to have the rear screen reattached at the cost of about $1200USD, One year on and now the rear dial has stopped working so I need to send it in again to have that fixed.

My other M8 needs to be sent in to repair a dead pixel line.

So basically another few thousand to get them both up to speed.

My canons, however, have never missed a beat. In fact for the repair costs of the M8s I could buy another canon body.
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Old 08-17-2011   #34
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Bet any money your d90 has hot pixel/s. If you shoot raw you wouldn't notice them anyway - they get sampled out in the conversion by most software.
The issue is one of reliability rather than a specific fault. Nikons are very reliable and digital Leicas are not. There was a survey here maybe a year ago of the type problems/no problems with your M9? I believe the idea was to achieve a large enough pool of responses to give statistical significance to the result. Last time I saw it the fault rate was about 25%, which to me as an amateur photographer is way too much of a risk. I'd love to buy an M9 and I have the glass for it but I'm not prepared to put up with the aggravation.

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Old 08-17-2011   #35
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Sorry for your frustration, Phil.

If you think dSLRs don't need hot pixel remapping, think again. Every one of the Canon dSLRs I've owned got a re-map job at some point, except for the 1D III I'm using now, probably because I haven't used it much.

Digital capture entails its own set of issues and requirements. Any brand or make. And Leica dRFs are, imvho, beset by a fair share. They are a special breed, nothing like the pro brick-like dSLRs that are the alternative small format digi equipment of choice if you want a more rugged reliable camera. The M8/9 problems frankly have to be accepted and worked through if you want to shoot digital with RF gear. We just have to put up with it, or return to film capture, or shoot a tough dSLR.

There is a clear reason why pros shooting digital leicas are in such a minority. An M8 or M9 is relatively delicate and needs service more than most working photographers would put up with. Amateurs and hobbyists, well, they've got time to spare compared to a pro and, necessarily in the case of Leica gear, money to burn on their avocation.

Me, I really like the output, especially in print, from the M8/9 with the glass I have. That's the upshot. An M8/9 is expensive to acquire and expensive to repair and maintain. At this point, I'm reconciled to those facts. The pictures make it worth it to me.
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Old 08-17-2011   #36
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The issue is one of reliability rather than a specific fault. Nikons are very reliable and digital Leicas are not. There was a survey here maybe a year ago of the type problems/no problems with your M9? I believe the idea was to achieve a large enough pool of responses to give statistical significance to the result. Last time I saw it the fault rate was about 25%, which to me as an amateur photographer is way too much of a risk. I'd love to buy an M9 and I have the glass for it but I'm not prepared to put up with the aggravation.
I understand what you're saying, I would agree that the Japanese DSLRs are very reliable - my 5ds have been flogged and never a fault, but I don't consider a hot pixel on a digital camera to be a problem. It happens to all of them.
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Lenses baby! For me I could not care less about the camera!!!
Old 08-17-2011   #37
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Lenses baby! For me I could not care less about the camera!!!

I have 2 M8 cameras which have been fine, but there may always be a lemon at an expensive price. I have tested the m9 3 times and the result for me was to buy a second M8 (the M9 and M8 are too close in performance to justify the cost).

I am much more likely to buy the new Nex 7 for $1,200. Sensor is close to the M8 in size, 23 or so MP and superior high ISO. I will use the extra cash savings for more glorious M lenses!!!!!
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Old 08-17-2011   #38
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Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post

Every person I know who has owned an M8 and or an M9 has had an issue with it.

Phil
I've had my M8 for four years and it has never been back. So far no issues at all.

Hope yours get resolved.
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Old 08-17-2011   #39
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First, have you signed up with Leica as a Pro user (assuming that you are a full-time Pro)? I've found Solms' pro service to exceed any other manufacturers although I've only used it once.

Secondly, much as I like Leica M digitals, I could not make a living by using just RF cameras (I'm apparently the only Pro using dMs that my Leica dealer knows) so I have dSLRs too. Unless you are extremely specialised I would assume that you too have a dSLR system (which can be used as a backup?).

Thirdly, I have had one issue with my 2 M8s - a line at 640ISO dealt with under warranty within a week including international shipping so it does sound as if you have been unfortunate to me, and dSLRs have issues too I'm afraid.

Sign up to Leica's Pro service and persevere and you might just be surprised.
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Old 08-17-2011   #40
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When I was using my M8 to shoot gallery openings I often had to clone out the odd hot pixel in post ... which I didn't mind to much. The crappy high ISO performance bothered me far more!

I've also noticed the odd hot pixel in my D700 ... however, they seem disappear in the transition to tif.
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Old 08-17-2011   #41
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Good luck, Phil. My M8 needed a new sensor (under warranty luckily) but the M9 has been great so far.

I think of hot pixels as the dust of the digital world. Definitely map 'em out in LR! But ultimately you need to feel confident in your cameras, and if you can't, then you gotta move on.
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Old 08-17-2011   #42
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Sign up to Leica's Pro service and persevere and you might just be surprised.
I have been waiting for about 7 months for my application to be processed. But hey, the year isn‘t out yet.
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Old 08-17-2011   #43
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Forget the D2X.

The D200/300/700/D3 all work well with manual focus lenses. The D2X sensor is inferior to all but the D200. However the D2X is a tank. So if you need a really tough body I guess it's worth it. A few years ago I met a pro who shot sports 6 or 7 days a week all year long. He had a suitcase full (literally) of surplus D2X bodies wrapped in towels. All of them had exceeded the MTBF shutter rating. All of them worked and he was selling them for a song.

A nice D300 is about $900-$1000 (US). The D700 handles manual focus better than the D300. However it is noticeably larger and louder too.

Of course DSLRs are heavy and loud compared to the M9 (but you already know that). I have owned two, D200s, a D300 and two D700s. None of them has had a problem. Needless to say you will find many people who experienced reliability problems with any camera system.
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Old 08-17-2011   #44
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A brass Leica lens on a brass body feels about the same weight as my Fuji S5. Yes the Fuji is a bit bigger but then I think the M9 is a bit bigger and fatter than an MP. There really isn't that much difference.




Quote:
Originally Posted by MCTuomey View Post
Me, I really like the output, especially in print, from the M8/9 with the glass I have. That's the upshot. An M8/9 is expensive to acquire and expensive to repair and maintain. At this point, I'm reconciled to those facts. The pictures make it worth it to me.
I really like the pictures from the M9 too Mike and I'd much rather use a rangefinder than a dSLR but until Leica gets the M9 sorted I'll wait, and my blood pressure will stay normal. In maybe 2-3 years?

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Old 08-17-2011   #45
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I really like the pictures from the M9 too Mike and I'd much rather use a rangefinder than a dSLR but until Leica gets the M9 sorted I'll wait, and my blood pressure will stay normal. In maybe 2-3 years?
As one who's M9 has been back to Leica (one of the small batch with the cracked sensor problem) I appreciate both sides of the argument. I wish it hadn't had the problem, but it still remains the best tool for the job as far as I'm concerened, and that outweighs everything else. I also know that the relative few cameras that have suffered problems get reported time after time on the internet which makes the situation look far worse than it is.

So consider all the many thousands of people who are using an M9 without any problems and take that as a true state of affairs.

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Sick of it
Old 08-17-2011   #46
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Sick of it

Hey Phil, sorry to hear about your troubles! Sell em both! ;-) Pick up a late serial M4-2 (clean for $850.00) and you're back in biz!

Regards.

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Old 08-17-2011   #47
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It's just the nature of digital sensors' problems. Using negatives have it's issues (scratch, dust, bad batch of emulsion etc) and digital have it's, you just got to live with it, i.e send it back AGAIN (even if it's for the 10th time) and c'est la vie, bad luck, mal chance.
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Old 08-17-2011   #48
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Could it be that the digital Leicas are boutique items and not intended for pro use? I use my M8 for newspaper work and, so far, it's been fine. But I also use Canon D1 and D20 cameras and they, too, have been fine and at a much lower cost than the Leicas. I still shoot black and white film for some assignments - and I can get away with that - but if I know I'm going to have to depend on digital, I'll go with the Canons. It's too bad, but that's how life is right now out here in the country.
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Old 08-17-2011   #49
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I'd keep the film Leicas and buy a Nikon D700 for digital. OK, you'll need a complete set of Nikon lenses, but you can buy old MF lenses for peanuts.
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Old 08-17-2011   #50
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c'moan its digital, what did you expect?
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