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Old 08-07-2011   #26
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Seems like Leica and the M9 are taking it on the chin for something the Sandisk Extreme Pro SD card is doing or not. A quick google seems to indicate people are having trouble with the Extreme Pro, SD and CF cards, in a few different camera makes.

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Old 08-07-2011   #27
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I have requested an RMA from Sandisk and sent them an Email with the steps taken to attempt to use their card. Either they have a design problem, or a counterfeit problem.

I will report the results back. If they send a replacement card, it will be direct from SanDisk and i will give it the same test. That would rule out Counterfeit.

So what set me off with this "Hammer"- one person losing some files from his M9 and immediately assuming it was the fault of the M9.
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Old 08-07-2011   #28
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Brian, your card sounds like a lemon.

On the other hand, although these cards are supposed to work on all systems, my protocol for camera cards is this:
- Format in the camera that will use it
- Camera is the only device I let write to the card
- Computer only reads; don't even try to write files to card, erase files, etc.
- Then, when ready, reformat card in camera

I use this conservative protocol in the hope of avoiding problems.
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Old 08-07-2011   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColSebastianMoran View Post
Brian, your card sounds like a lemon.

On the other hand, although these cards are supposed to work on all systems, my protocol for camera cards is this:
- Format in the camera that will use it
- Camera is the only device I let write to the card
- Computer only reads; don't even try to write files to card, erase files, etc.
- Then, when ready, reformat card in camera

I use this conservative protocol in the hope of avoiding problems.
This is exactly the same as my own approach.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 08-07-2011   #30
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That is typically what I do, in this case the exception was to test if formatting the card using WIN7 Pro would allow the card to mount in the HP Pavillion. The latter was the first indication that the card had problems. It is the only card used that the HP was not able to detect, even after rebooting the computer.
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check compatibility first
Old 08-07-2011   #31
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check compatibility first

newer SD cards aren't necessarily downwards compatible with prior devices, or card readers, check here:

https://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/sdxc/using_sdxc

For example, if you stick an SDHC non UHS-1 interface card into an original Epson RD-1, it won't work.

If you upgrade the RD-1 firmware, a non UHS-1 (e.g. Class 2,4,6, or Class 10) card will work.

But, that card will not necessarily be readable by computer unless it has also been upgraded with a card reader compatible with the interface spec, and formatting method that the device utilized on the card.

I still have several devices that are SD only - readers, computers, cameras, card readers. SDHC and SDXC devices will not work in them, although they physically fit just fine.

For camera use, I would stick with SDHC non UHS-1 cards (class 6, and class 10), unless I had a Nikon D7000 that explicitly utilized that interface, and I had the supporting card reader(s) and OS support.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/con...=7-11133-11187


Quote:
Originally Posted by ColSebastianMoran View Post
Brian, your card sounds like a lemon.

On the other hand, although these cards are supposed to work on all systems, my protocol for camera cards is this:
- Format in the camera that will use it
- Camera is the only device I let write to the card
- Computer only reads; don't even try to write files to card, erase files, etc.
- Then, when ready, reformat card in camera

I use this conservative protocol in the hope of avoiding problems.
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Old 08-07-2011   #32
Gabriel M.A.
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If you post a rambling comment on Microsoft's site and Facebook page that they are are at fault, and yell down anybody who tries to reason with you, you just might get enough traffic to your blog. If you have a blog. I mean, how else can you be taken seriously. Anybody who will point out that this may be an issue with the super-reputable can't-be-at-fault-Ever SanDisk brand is clearly a Microsoft apologist.

Shame On Leica!




Oh, wait, you're a reasonable person who won't go down screaming down the Intertoobes that this must clearly (and without a single doubt) be Microsoft's and Leica's fault.
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Old 08-07-2011   #33
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You know, I have not tried the card with my CP/M computer.

I wrote my own disk driver for it. Did all up my I/O using direct writes to the sectors on the disk. It was much faster than the operating system. At this point, those 5.25" disks are much faster than THIS Sandisk card.

Sandisk screwed this card up royally. I will post back the results after getting the RMA for it.
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Old 08-07-2011   #34
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https://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/sdhc/

This card is an SDHC UHS-I card, and according to the SDCARD.ORG, is a FAT-32 format disk. That is what WIN7 reports. SDXC cards us exFAT format.

So: this card should work as a FAT-32 disk, and was originally formatted that way.
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Old 08-07-2011   #35
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I will find out soon enough: I supplied the alpha-numeric product code from the back of the card. The card had to be held at an angle to read it.

The package contained a code for a 1-year trial of a utility reader/recovery program. I am not going to try it, though.

If it is counterfeit, then Beach Camera and Amazon will be next on my list to contact.
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Old 08-07-2011   #36
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First thing out of the box, The card did work in the M8, no files lost. I formatted the card using the M8. The SD card would not mount in the HP Pavillion G7, but did in the Dell., after using with the M8.



The problems started After formatting in the WIN7 Pro machine. After that, looks like the sector mapping was lost.
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Old 08-07-2011   #37
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I checked the Sandisk list of trusted resellers: Beach Camera is on the list. I would be surprised if this card is counterfeit. The trial period voucher for the file recovery program was in the box, but you never know.

We'll see what Sandisk does for the RMA.
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Old 08-07-2011   #38
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Good work done, Brian. I am still with Sandisk 4GB cards on the EP-2.
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Hi Brian
Old 08-07-2011   #39
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Hi Brian

I am aware that is what Sandisk says, but there are some reports of win7 users only being provided an exFAT format options when an SDHC (> 2GB) UHS-1 interface card, is detected. The usual error message is that the card can't be read, and do you want to format it, and if you proceed, it will format in exFAT mode.

But there are too many variables going on to determine what is wrong. Here is what I'd recommend you do:

1. Swap the card. Beach camera is known for selling refurbs as new, and open box stuff. Since your card is obviously not working as a proper SDHC FAT32 card with just your M8, the card is broken. (Takes and stores photos, but then needs battery ejected and card removed?) You do have the latest M8 firmware, right?

2. When you get a known good Sandisk card, checkout your 3 machines: a) your HP card port does support SD, SDHC, and SDXC, - not sure about your Dell and XP machine, check - I can link you to utils if you need to.

3. Check the firmware for your computer, supporting the USB to SD cart interface. Some need updating to support SDHC and/or SDXC. Again, utils can show this.

4. Check your interface when using an external reader. Just because your reader is made by Sandisk, it might not be compatible with your particular Sandisk card. I have a Sandisk card reader that won't even read SDHC cards, it's just an old one.

5. Your XP machine will likely need some patches to read this card, even when your firmware and hardware are up and running.

6. If you do any benchmarking with the card, please, use a USB3 card reader, or > USB2 reader that supports the USH-1 mode of your SDHC card.

You might want to create 2 threads - 1. The M9 and Sandisk cards, and 2. Sandisk SDHC/XC UHS-1 card performance in general.

Good luck, and again, of all the variables, the Beach Camera one stands out the most to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney View Post
https://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/sdhc/

This card is an SDHC UHS-I card, and according to the SDCARD.ORG, is a FAT-32 format disk. That is what WIN7 reports. SDXC cards us exFAT format.


So: this card should work as a FAT-32 disk, and was originally formatted that way.
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Old 08-08-2011   #40
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The Sandisk reader is new, and supports the SDHC and SDXC standard.

I tried the format program with WIN7 and from SDCARD.ORG.

Two of the computers are less than 6 months old, bought after buying the M9.

I will try a new card when in.

If it were a DC line balance problem, it would have been obvious to me.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=JG0...page&q&f=false

Last edited by Brian Sweeney : 08-08-2011 at 01:36.
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Old 08-08-2011   #41
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Dear Brian,

No fair! You know what you're talking about! Are you SURE that the Internet is the right place for you?

As a matter of idle interest, do you get any extra recognition from the government for assigned patents? Kodak had a lovely custom of a silver dollar for every patent assigned to them by employees.

Cheers,

R.
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Last edited by Roger Hicks : 08-08-2011 at 01:45.
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Old 08-08-2011   #42
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The Internet... It was very different in the 1980s. Having custom chips made for my Network Interface Card was fun. That was the 1990s for me. Working in a research Lab for over 30 years has its pluses. Some of the work that I did was incorporated into the RFC's that define IP.

15 years ago I would have written a custom device driver to test the SD card, if I needed it for a project. This is what you get for using software that you did not even write yourself. These days, just wanted to see if the M9 was at fault, or if the Sandisk card had a problem. Since the card was never in my Leica M9, and it is supposed to work with WIN7 and XP computers but does not, I'm thinking the card is the problem.

Last edited by Brian Sweeney : 08-08-2011 at 10:45.
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Old 08-08-2011   #43
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I supplied all of the requested information requested to get the RMA, have not heard anything back.

- Your Phone Number.
xxx-xxx-xxxx
- Your complete physical address (No P.O. Box please)
Brian Sweeney
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx,xx
xxxxx-xx
USA
- What is written on the face of the card?
Sandisk Extreme Pro
SDHC I
8GB

- The Product code (Alpha Numeric Code ) which is at the back of the Card
BI1035716257G
- From where did you purchase this product?
Amazon.com,
Order filled by:
Beach Camera
80 Carter Drive
Edison, NJ

- Exact or approximate Date of Purchase of the card in the format of MM/DD/YYYY
08/03/2011
- How was the product packaged at the time of purchase?
Card was in black box, box-size plastic insert was intact and had to be cut open. SD card was in the jewel case as shown in the attached images.
- Are you getting the product replaced for the first time by SanDisk?
Yes: I have used Sandisk PCMCIA memory cards, 1GByte SD cards, 2GByte SD cards, 4GByte SD cards without problems.
- Do you have any important data on the product?
NO: I tested the card before actual use, and found it would not work reliably on my computer.
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Hi Brian
Old 08-08-2011   #44
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Hi Brian

re: custom chips

Were they ATM or Ethernet? Chances are they were made by me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney View Post
The Internet... It was very different in the 1980s. Having custom chips made for my Network Interface Card was fun. That was the 1990s for me. Working in a research Lab for over 30 years has its pluses. Some of the work that I did was incorporated into the RFC's that define IP.

15 years ago I would have written a custom device driver to test the SD card, if I needed it for a project. This is what you get for using software that you did not even write yourself. These days, just wanted to see if the M9 was at fault, or if the Sandisk card had a problem. Since the card was never in my Leica M9, and it is supposed to work with WIN7 and XP computers but does not, I'm thinking the card is the problem.
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Old 08-08-2011   #45
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ATM.

Transwitch and PMC Framing chips, LSI ATMizer 64360 and 64363. We had an ATM NIC built around the LSI ATMizer and MUSIC 1480 CAM chip in ~1995.

I've worked with SONET/SDH and ATM since 1990. I had an OC-12 NIC in 1996. Running with Phar Lap extended DOS.

This SD card is the most "screwed-up" memory card that I have ever seen. And I remember Bubble memory and CORE. And worked with code from the IBM 7094 Stretch, with the ECC that was later proven ineffective.

Last edited by Brian Sweeney : 08-08-2011 at 12:24.
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ok
Old 08-08-2011   #46
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ok

I did the ANA5910/30/40 ASICs through TSMC, using PMC Sierra PHYs, on at least the OC-3 card.

I thought you meant early early, like mid '80s Seeq Ethernet NICs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney View Post
ATM.

Transwitch and PMC Framing chips, LSI ATMizer 64360 and 64363. We had an ATM NIC built around the LSI ATMizer and MUSIC 1480 CAM chip in ~1995.

I've worked with SONET/SDH and ATM since 1990. I had an OC-12 NIC in 1996. Running with Phar Lap extended DOS.

This SD card is the most "screwed-up" memory card that I have ever seen. And I remember Bubble memory and CORE. And worked with code from the IBM 7094 Stretch, with the ECC that was later proven ineffective.
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Old 08-08-2011   #47
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Ethernet didn't use single-mode optical at the time. Our interest was from the optical layer up, single-mode. They were still trying to decide if ATM would be 64 byte or 32 byte cells when we started.

So- Ted, when are you going to try a Sandisk UHS card in your Leica...

One tip off on this card: the box states that it uses "Enhanced Super-Parallel Processing" to attain it's speed. The SD card specification states that many of the registers can only be accessed when the transfer is idle, that register values are not valid while the buffers are being written. I spent a most of the 1980's working parallel computers, and interlocks when accessing data could be tricky. I wonder if that is why the card runs into trouble when data is being simultaneously written from the camera while the user is chimping.
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In 1996
Old 08-08-2011   #48
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In 1996

we were shipping pre 802.3z MMF, and SMF (1300nm) 64-bit 66Mhz PCI cards (GbE), as well as switches.

I don't have a digital Leica, and I don't use Sandisk cards (the kids have mine), I use Kingston, Adata, Transcend, and PQI Class 6 and Class 10 SDHC.

No UHS-1 or SDXC for me at this time. But at the same time, I wouldn't buy or use a camera today that didn't support them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney View Post
Ethernet didn't use single-mode optical at the time. Our interest was from the optical layer up, single-mode. They were still trying to decide if ATM would be 64 byte or 32 byte cells when we started.

So- Ted, when are you going to try a Sandisk UHS card in your Leica...

One tip off on this card: the box states that it uses "Enhanced Super-Parallel Processing" to attain it's speed. The SD card specification states that many of the registers can only be accessed when the transfer is idle, that register values are not valid while the buffers are being written. I spent a most of the 1980's working parallel computers, and interlocks when accessing data could be tricky. I wonder if that is why the card runs into trouble when data is being simultaneously written from the camera while the user is chimping.
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sandisk ESP
Old 08-08-2011   #49
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sandisk ESP

Seems to work well in the D7000:

http://glamourphotography.co/gear/uh...-32gb-45mbsec/


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney View Post
Ethernet didn't use single-mode optical at the time. Our interest was from the optical layer up, single-mode. They were still trying to decide if ATM would be 64 byte or 32 byte cells when we started.

So- Ted, when are you going to try a Sandisk UHS card in your Leica...

One tip off on this card: the box states that it uses "Enhanced Super-Parallel Processing" to attain it's speed. The SD card specification states that many of the registers can only be accessed when the transfer is idle, that register values are not valid while the buffers are being written. I spent a most of the 1980's working parallel computers, and interlocks when accessing data could be tricky. I wonder if that is why the card runs into trouble when data is being simultaneously written from the camera while the user is chimping.
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Old 08-08-2011   #50
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I don't have one of those, or would try the card in it. My Nikon DSLR uses PCMCIA cards, and the Sandisk drives work fine in it. a 110MByte card- woohoo. My first Sandisk card was a 4MByte PCMCIA card for the Kodak DC50. Never had a problem.

Too bad Leica could not use a CF card the the M8/M9. I prefer parallel interfaces.
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