Manual Focus ring, crap?

peppermill · 07-28-2011

Hi,

I got my X100 last week and overall very happy with it.

I like that when i'm in AF mode, it will still show me the distance of the object i've acheived focus on. This is quite handy for when i want to shoot in manual focus and I can pre-focus the lens to a given distance.

My big problem is how the focus ring works. For example, moving from 2M to 3M can take 1000 turns of the ring just like it can take a quarter of a turn. In reality, it doesn't matter how much it's turned, it will move forward and backwards always at the same speed. It may as well be a button up and down and not the gorgeous "looking" ring...
Coming from M lenses It's very difficult to get comfortable with this software neglect as I'm sure they could easily figure out the speed and distance one is turning the ring and put the lens accordingly.

Anyway, it's driving me mental so I thought i'd bitch about it on the forums.

Cheers,

Tom

willie_901 · 07-28-2011

Tom,

You are not alone.

In fact, MF mode on the the X100 is really just another way to use AF.

I doubt Fuji's designers ever intended the X100 to be used as a pure manual focus camera. If you want to focus every shot using only the lens collar, the X100 is not for you.

You can minimize your frustration by using the AF/AE button in MF mode to get the focus point close. Then adjusting the focus ring to get your pre-focus point right is less frustrating. MF mode is most useful for macro work. The command switch can be used to zoom in and carefully confirm/check focus. Occasionally I check focus in MF mode using the command switch when focusing in low light.

I can't decide if I want to use AF-S or MF mode. I think I need to choose just one way to focus the X100. I'm leaning towards MF mode. The AF/AE auto focus button method similar to how I use my D700s. In very low light or with low-contrast targets, I think AF-S mode with a small focus box works best.

SimonSawSunlight · 07-28-2011

the weird thing is that it seems to work better in daylight than in the dark on mine.

denbraven · 07-28-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonSawSunlight

the weird thing is that it seems to work better in daylight than in the dark on mine.

Some people seem to think that. I can't say for sure, but I'd be inclined to agree.

I don't MF much though. I'm often in MF mode, but it's out on the streets on f8 or f11 and then I often use the AF/AE button to let it focus for me at a distance I think will work for whatever I'm out shooting. Then if I see something I have plenty of time to shoot, I'd use the AF/AE button again to make sure it focuses on my subject, rather than switching to AF, take the shot, and back to MF again.

But yeah, as it is now, the MF ring is kinda crap. We'll see what happens in the next firmware update...

PatrickCheung · 07-28-2011

I'm usually shooting in MF mode now, it helps that I can finetune the autofocus since the Fuji tends to miss focus by just a tiny bit sometimes. It's pretty much AF anyway! I find that using the EVF helps a LOT with the focusing issues. It allows you to focus a bit closer and focus on what you want to focus on.

It focuses better in daylight because there's more contrast, and a contrast-based focusing system requires contrast! In dim light, the focusing system will find it a tad more difficult to find contrast!

SimonSawSunlight · 07-28-2011

in daylight, MF as of pre / scale focus was cool for me. focus at 1m, iso 800 and f8, worked like a charm.

Arjay · 07-28-2011

Using MF on the X100 like on my trusty Hexar RF (Leica M clone) isn't a good idea, because it's very slow, especially under low-light conditions.

If you have a way of using your camera inconspicuously while having it up at your eye, then the X100's AF is very useable - provided you learn how to use it right.

The X100 uses a contrast detect AF system that is pretty fast for contrast detect standards, but a little, but not annoyingly slow when compared to an SLR/DSLR phase detect AF system. If you're used to AF SLRs/DSLRs, you will have to adapt to the X100's different AF operating principle: The camera will not focus on edges, but on surface structures found in its AF window!

It is therefore a good idea to make sure that the AF window is filled entirely by your target and does not contain any background, or else you might get flaky AF performance. The AF window in the X100's optical viewfinder cannot be resized, the window in the camera's electronical viewfinder does offer a resizing option. Thus, if you need to focus on small objects, the EVF is the better option. The OVF's AF window is quite sufficient for measuring on people's faces on short to medium distances, however.

If you adhere to these rules, then the camera delivers good and precise AF performance, even in very low light. Actually, the X100 can focus equally well in low-light situations as a camera that uses phase-detect AF. Under no-light conditions, both AF systems will start to fail at approximately the same luminance levels.

Another inherent consequence of the X100's contrast detect AF system is the fact that the camera cannot focus well on moving objects. Unlike with phase detect AF systems, the X100's AF system cannot tell if it is focusing on a point closer or further away from the actual target's focusing distance, so it cannot work preemptively. If you're shooting moving objects, you'll either have to close down your aperture somewhat to get some "safety DOF" or change to manual focusing mode and use zone focusing. The X100's focus assist function for manual focus, however makes this a very user-friendly option.

peppermill · 07-29-2011

The thing is, I bought this camera naively thinking I would get a camera combining the strengths of the RD1 and the modern technology of today's digital compacts.

While I do find myself preferring the manual focus on the RD1 because it's easier to pin point focus on a very small item regardless of available light (more or less

) using the patch, but what makes it even more intuitive is the fact that I will get the know the lens and will pretty much know the distance based on how far my fingers have moved from where the lens stopped, either left of right. This method of just moving the ring a slight turn meant I could totally forget the camera and enjoy my holiday.

I'm prepared to accept a focus by wire system provided it works in a logical way. I don't understand why on earth turning the ring would do anything other than move the lens, I don't care if it needs to focus or not, I know what I'm doing, or at least it should be my choice.

My friend showed me the other day how Ricoh has done this on their GXR system and I have to say, it works as it should, although not perfect since it doesn't pick up acceleration very well, but at least it seems to move the lens according to how much rotation has been done on the ring. In my opinion the right way to see it is like how a computer trackpad works.

I don't know but I think Fuji is taking the piss here for what they claim is an no compromise, "pro" camera. What's pro about it if it doesn't allow people the freedom to do basic street photography techniques for hip shooting? This is not just a piece of jewellery to wear around the neck that takes tremendous pictures...

If they can fix this and also make better use of the buttons on the camera, this could well become my perfect camera. For now, it's worse than the GF1 in many ways and worse than the RD1 in others, but I bought this camera to have a perfect mix of both in one small package...

Sorry for venting my frustration.

DtheG · 07-30-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonSawSunlight

the weird thing is that it seems to work better in daylight than in the dark on mine.

Yes, my experience too. And I am talking about using the manual ring not autofocus. In low light it definitely requires more turning to shift focus over the same range. It makes no sense. I can only assume a serious error of the software design. It should be simple enough to connect the focus ring to a proportionate movement of lens' focus mechanism; it is no different to a mouse or trackpad in that respect — it should be independent of light level. But it appears as if a simple software task has been mis-routed through the autofocus system.

back alley · 07-30-2011

i have not tried the manual focus at all...i bought the x100 for the auto features...or else i would just have kept using the rd1.

auto focus, auto iso...etc. works for me. and i am not missing the focus or action like when i first started to use the x100...catching it all...gotta learn the camera...like dancing with a long time partner...

Mattikk · 07-31-2011

This thread has some really good knowledge that definitely makes me understand the camera better.

Special thanks to Arjay, you might have saved my first paid wedding shoot in a week. Although X100 will be my secondary, I'll probably end up shooting 50/50% Nikon/Fuji.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonSawSunlight

in daylight, MF as of pre / scale focus was cool for me. focus at 1m, iso 800 and f8, worked like a charm.

And thanks Simon for this tip. I'm going to try this one out tomorrow and maybe do a slight variation of it for f5.6. One question though: how far away can your subjects be with those settings to still be in focus?

SimonSawSunlight · 07-31-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattikk

And thanks Simon for this tip. I'm going to try this one out tomorrow and maybe do a slight variation of it for f5.6. One question though: how far away can your subjects be with those settings to still be in focus?

0.7m-1.8m is my guess, not quite sure though. if the situation changes, you can always adjust focus manually or with the af button without having to take your eye off the finder.

I really like this camera. imo, it is a great tool if you know how to work with it and do not try to use it exactly like your M or whatever.

Jamie Pillers · 07-31-2011

The light colored portion of the focus scale tells you how far away, or how close they can be.

SimonSawSunlight · 08-20-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie Pillers

The light colored portion of the focus scale tells you how far away, or how close they can be.

it's very pessimistic though. it actually indicates that it has way less depth of field than a full format 35mm lens.

Jamie Pillers · 08-20-2011

Yes, that is strange. But now I've grown accustomed to setting the camera to Manual focus and then simply pressing the AE/AF button to instantly focus on the subject. Works great... reminds me of the Contax G bodies.

capitalK · 08-21-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie Pillers

Yes, that is strange. But now I've grown accustomed to setting the camera to Manual focus and then simply pressing the AE/AF button to instantly focus on the subject. Works great... reminds me of the Contax G bodies.

Yeah, this is how I do it too, and I look at the DOF scale in the viewfinder just to make sure it isn't way off. I sort of have to think to myself "how far away is my subject?" before I put the camera to my eye, then focus and then check to make sure my brain and the camera are in sync.

Not fast by any means but I like that this camera lets me slow down a bit.

denbraven · 08-21-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonSawSunlight

it's very pessimistic though. it actually indicates that it has way less depth of field than a full format 35mm lens.

I'm not sure "pessimistic" is the right word to use, maybe more "conservative"? At least you know that the area in white on the DOF scale will be in focus, and then you can add a little extra to the front and back which will probably also be (mostly) in photo.

viramati · 08-26-2011

Did a wedding last weekend and tried out the fuji for some of it. unfortunately when I really wanted it when the light was low it became totally useless mainly because the manual focusing ring is just impossible to use and even the use of the AE/AF button wouldn't let it focus and this was with flash and the AF assist light enabled. So I just stuck to the M9 with 35mm lens which I can easily zone focus because I know, even in the dark with the use of the focus tab what distance it is focused to. So it was a somewhat disappointing that I couldn't use it when I most wanted to.

capitalK · 08-26-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by viramati

Did a weeding last weekend and tried out the fuji for some of it. unfortunately when I really wanted it when the light was low it became totally useless mainly because the manual focusing ring is just impossible to use and even the use of the AE/AF button wouldn't let it focus and this was with flash and the AF assist light enabled. So I just stuck to the M9 with 35mm lens which I can easily zone focus because I know, even in the dark with the use of the focus tab what distance it is focused to. So it was a somewhat disappointing that I couldn't use it when I most wanted to.

I usually do my weeding during the daytime so it is easier to see the dandelions.

viramati · 08-26-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalK

I usually do my weeding during the daytime so it is easier to see the dandelions.

very true, very true

capitalK · 08-26-2011

I'm sorry, I hate when people do that to me. You're a good sport, though. I've also struggled with focus in low light but I still mostly enjoy the camera.

My love/hate relationship with the X100 stands at about 90/10