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Screen-less fantasy M9 project, comments are welcome and appreciated!
Old 07-22-2011   #1
JuJu
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Screen-less fantasy M9 project, comments are welcome and appreciated!

Business is slow again, I will be really bored if I don't come up with some day dreaming projects to work on. It's an LCD screen-less digital M this time. Like using a film camera, you don't get to see anything before developing the negatives. Yep, THIS is totally defeating the purpose of a digital camera. But what if there are people who are willing to trade LCD for a slimmer body? or maybe there are ways to dial in the settings without it? anyway, I totally suck at words, please see the chart for my thinking process. I will look forward for any sorts of comments and use them to refine the design. Thanks in advance and stay cool!


Last edited by JuJu : 09-12-2014 at 17:44. Reason: updating image URL
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Old 07-22-2011   #2
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"Yeah, I'm sure it will handle nicely, but it's fugly..." Hahahaha

Looks very cool, but I'm a chimper these days.
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Old 07-22-2011   #3
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lol, thanks, John.
I am a chimper too.
The biggest flaw of LCD-less design is that you will find out your lens cap was on when you are in your digital darkroom...
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Old 07-22-2011   #4
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I am not a chimper and never have judged the image I have taken with the screen on any Nikon DSLR I have owned and used for the last 11 years.

Forget the M9, just take a Barnack and plug in the X1 guts with no menu screen, etc. and run with it!
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Old 07-22-2011   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave lackey View Post
Forget the M9, just take a Barnack and plug in the X1 guts with no menu screen, etc. and run with it!
That's cruel!
Good to know Non-chimpers do exist
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Old 07-22-2011   #6
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Cruel? Nah...the M9 is just about perfect IMO...a little duct tape on the back and you'll never chimp again.

Who the hell wants to put on reading glasses to look at a screen too small to tell you anything and the goofy menus, well, they ain't on my M3. Just give me a simple tool that works and let me take pictures, mang! BTW, I like your sketches, keep on working on it!
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Old 07-22-2011   #7
ZlatkoBatistich
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That little screen is one of the best things to happen to cameras since the invention of photography. For generations, film photographers could only dream of seeing results that quickly. Now that we have it, we want to get rid of it? Not me. I want the screen to be better. No, I want the screen to be exquisite. I would never buy a digital camera without one -- wouldn't even want to borrow such a camera.
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Old 07-22-2011   #8
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cool project. two suggestions i can think of: add an M3 advance lever that cocks the shutter, gets rid of motors inside and quiets it down (looks bada$$ too) and a histogram that shows on the top LCD or in the vf. The histo wouldn't have to be very hi res, just enough to tell if yer highs are blown. Again, cool project man.

edit: that iso dial where the rewind knob usually lives is a great idea.
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Old 07-22-2011   #9
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This is fun. I like the voice-controlled "HC-B" mode.

I gotta say... the "chimping" term is the worst thing to ever happen to the digital photography forum. It just gives the arrogant photographer another pellet for his gun. It was cute the first time someone said it, but it's a juvenile argument against LCD review.

1. The only people who don't think they can learn something from seeing what they just did are narcissists who just can't acknowledge their own imperfection.
2. LCD review is no different from what professional commercial photographers have always used in the past 40 years: Polaroid proofing. The only difference is you no longer have to wait 120 seconds with models, grips, editors and art directors waiting, or while the artfully prepared soufflé withers under the lamps.
3. People who don't bracket, crop, or shoot multiple frames are essentially saying they always do it 'right' the first time. I can't recall, though, ever being impressed by the photographs of such people. But, they are legends in at least one person's mind, i suppose.

Apologies for the rant, and i'm not referring to anyone in this thread (yet). It's 104-degrees here. "At lower temperatures, people are easy-going. Over 92, it's too hot to move, but just 92 - people get irritable!"
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Old 07-22-2011   #10
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My Fujifilm X100 having a hybrid viewfinder means that most of the time the back LCD is turned off. Menu options can be seen in the electronic viewfinder and if you need to chimp you can view the shots in the EVF. If this hybrid VF was incorporated in your fantasy M9 then the LCD could be dispensed with.
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Old 07-22-2011   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave lackey View Post
Cruel? Nah...the M9 is just about perfect IMO...a little duct tape on the back and you'll never chimp again.

Who the hell wants to put on reading glasses to look at a screen too small to tell you anything and the goofy menus, well, they ain't on my M3. Just give me a simple tool that works and let me take pictures, mang! BTW, I like your sketches, keep on working on it!
Thanks for your comments, Dave.
I am just wondering if there's a way to make M9 simpler. It's impossible to be M3 kinda simple, but it's the goal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZlatkoBatistich View Post
That little screen is one of the best things to happen to cameras since the invention of photography. For generations, film photographers could only dream of seeing results that quickly. Now that we have it, we want to get rid of it? Not me. I want the screen to be better. No, I want the screen to be exquisite. I would never buy a digital camera without one -- wouldn't even want to borrow such a camera.
Points taken. Thanks. This idea was intended to co-exist with normal M models, not to replace them. Maybe it'll appeal to some weird customers.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mto'brien View Post
cool project. two suggestions i can think of: add an M3 advance lever that cocks the shutter, gets rid of motors inside and quiets it down (looks bada$$ too) and a histogram that shows on the top LCD or in the vf. The histo wouldn't have to be very hi res, just enough to tell if yer highs are blown. Again, cool project man.

edit: that iso dial where the rewind knob usually lives is a great idea.
Thanks, Matt, yeah, why not go old school altogether?! An M3 style film advance lever will be nice. Then Tom A can build rapidwinder for digital Ms! M9's shutter sound is actually quiet, it is the motor that gives it away. Histogram on top LCD panel idea is great, thanks again.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CK Dexter Haven View Post
This is fun. I like the voice-controlled "HC-B" mode.

I gotta say... the "chimping" term is the worst thing to ever happen to the digital photography forum. It just gives the arrogant photographer another pellet for his gun. It was cute the first time someone said it, but it's a juvenile argument against LCD review.

1. The only people who don't think they can learn something from seeing what they just did are narcissists who just can't acknowledge their own imperfection.
2. LCD review is no different from what professional commercial photographers have always used in the past 40 years: Polaroid proofing. The only difference is you no longer have to wait 120 seconds with models, grips, editors and art directors waiting, or while the artfully prepared soufflé withers under the lamps.
3. People who don't bracket, crop, or shoot multiple frames are essentially saying they always do it 'right' the first time. I can't recall, though, ever being impressed by the photographs of such people. But, they are legends in at least one person's mind, i suppose.

Apologies for the rant, and i'm not referring to anyone in this thread (yet). It's 104-degrees here. "At lower temperatures, people are easy-going. Over 92, it's too hot to move, but just 92 - people get irritable!"
Points taken, thanks! English is my third language, and I just got to know what "chimper" means from Wikipedia I thought it's kind of cute... I hope no one was offended...
It's 101ºF here in NYC, feels like 113ºF according to Yahoo


Quote:
Originally Posted by greyelm View Post
My Fujifilm X100 having a hybrid viewfinder means that most of the time the back LCD is turned off. Menu options can be seen in the electronic viewfinder and if you need to chimp you can view the shots in the EVF. If this hybrid VF was incorporated in your fantasy M9 then the LCD could be dispensed with.
Hey! that's true! That makes the screen-less design more possible. Thanks!




@all: Thanks so much for your idea & comments, back to drawing board now
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Old 07-22-2011   #12
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I like the idea and was very surprised to see something similar to what I have been thinking about lately.

My ideas was not to skip the display completely, but to replace it with a very thin electronic paper. Most settings and image control could be done through the viewfinder, if it has a possibility to overlay the image just like the X100 does. I would even consider live-view for those, that want it, via bluetooth on your smart phone or webpad.

The electronic paper display at the back would be good for convenience stuff, such like more complex settings, that you do very rarely, or for displaying DOF-tables for attached lenses, battery and images left and stuff like that. Since it needs no power for displaying (only for changing display contents), it does not cost much battery.

Of course it can be used to control images in BW, but that would not be it's main purpose. But I have a great slogan for that:

Our display doesn't have pixels, it has grain!

I think, 50% of RFFlers would buy one...
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Old 07-22-2011   #13
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You don’t need White balance if it only shoots raw, so that is one less thing to worry about.

Lenses are also detected with the 6Bit coding.
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Old 07-22-2011   #14
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Need some form of histogram display for feedback on exposure. Can the top display do that?
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Old 07-22-2011   #15
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sorry for the somewhat straightforward comment, but why not get a black paper and cover the lcd as a flap? it works just the same as an lcd like the r-d1's, and it makes the camera chimping-proof. the only setting you need to change that uses the lcd is iso, right? and that's not a setting one changes that often while shooting... it's silly, but i'd give it a go.

it's cool to wonder how things can be improved, but it's a niche inside a niche still...

btw, the "turn on hcb mode" joke made me smile
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Old 07-22-2011   #16
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I do like the idea of independent dials for ISO and exposure compensation. Maybe ISO doesn't have to be a menu item. The little Canon G10 has a nice ISO dial.
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Old 07-22-2011   #17
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This is a great study! I love the concepts and flowcharts - really enjoyable.
I have to echo that I wouldn't buy a digital camera without an LCD screen. Using a histogram for instant feedback on exactly where the exposure is, is very very important for me. Especially when working with external lighting.
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Old 07-22-2011   #18
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I have been picturing that exact same camera in my head for years.

http://www.nikonweb.com/nasaf4/

well, maybe a BIT smaller.
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Old 07-22-2011   #19
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A screenless digital camera so you can get back home and find you missed as many shots (focus off, bad composition, poor exposure) as when you used a film camera. That would make for a nostalgic experience, you could once again talk again about the one that got away, rather than the one you didn't try hard enough to get.

Sometimes I wonder if Leica's don't bring out the worst in people, where simply owning the camera is more important than the quality of the photographs, where polishing the camera and bragging about photographic purity is more important than getting out the door with it. And a screenless Leica fits right in that bracket. My time is valuable, I don't get enough of it to go out with my camera, so when somebody invented the LCD so less of my time was wasted I didn't see fit to kick them in the nuts, I more or less stopped using film.

Removing the LCD is just negative ambition, making a camera less productive for the sake of form. If you don't want to look at the LCD don't, put some black tape over it, it will cost less than a whole new camera, and you can re-create the warm glow you get when you discover you missed focus on your best shot after a weeks work, or a four hundred mile drive, or a significant occasion in your life

Steve

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Old 07-23-2011   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
A screenless digital camera so you can get back home and find you missed as many shots (focus off, bad composition, poor exposure) as when you used a film camera. That would make for a nostalgic experience, you could once again talk again about the one that got away, rather than the one you didn't try hard enough to get.

Sometimes I wonder if Leica's don't bring out the worst in people, where simply owning the camera is more important than the quality of the photographs, where polishing the camera and bragging about photographic purity is more important than getting out the door with it. And a screenless Leica fits right in that bracket. My time is valuable, I don't get enough of it to go out with my camera, so when somebody invented the LCD so less of my time was wasted I didn't see fit to kick them in the nuts, I more or less stopped using film.

Removing the LCD is just negative ambition, making a camera less productive for the sake of form. If you don't want to look at the LCD don't, put some black tape over it, it will cost less than a whole new camera, and you can re-create the warm glow you get when you discover you missed focus on your best shot after a weeks work, or a four hundred mile drive, or a significant occasion in your life

Steve
I'm tempted to put that whole block of text in my signature and keep it there for eternity. Perfectly written - Thanks.
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Old 07-23-2011   #21
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Why not a slim body with reversible display? Epson did it 7 years ago and it works fine.
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Old 07-23-2011   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCT View Post
Why not a slim body with reversible display? Epson did it 7 years ago and it works fine.
Swivel display with controls like the m6/m7 on the back side! you could throw ISO & EV comp onto the back, and retain the cameras form. For people wanting to use the LCD, they could just flip the screen over. Problem solved.

Add in a Hybrid VF ala the Fuji x100 and you have a capable shooter.
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Old 07-23-2011   #23
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I would really like an ISO dial and EV comp control, but I really value image review. I'm not much of a chimper, most of the time I don't do it, but when I want it, usually in tricky lighting or framing/parallax situations, it's invaluable.

I'd need EV comp much less if the M9's meter was any good! So maybe that's a solution to the wrong problem. I very rarely tweak the ISO dial on my M6ttl to get exposure compensation, even when shooting transparency, so some combination of a better meter, and more latitude would help.
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Old 07-25-2011   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
The biggest flaw of LCD-less design is that you will find out your lens cap was on when you are in your digital darkroom...
That would happen to me a few times a year I'm sure...at least for a few frames. As a person who prefers a LCD, I also do not think it is important as many believe. If you need a screen to verify focus, then I'd say practice your focusing more... it's not that hard (unless you are using ultra-fast lenses).

Last edited by jsrockit : 07-25-2011 at 05:14.
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Old 07-25-2011   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
That would happen to me a few times a year I'm sure...at least for a few frames. As a person who prefers a LCD, I also do not think it is important as many believe. If you need a screen to verify focus, then I'd say practice your focusing more... it's not that hard (unless you are using ultra-fast lenses).
For certain styles of photography, like for instance using external lighting, it's invaluable.
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Old 07-25-2011   #26
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I find it hilarious that some feel as though the person who invented the lcd is being "kicked in the nuts" here. What happened to having a little bit of fun? I believe the thread has the word fantasy in the title... jeez.
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Old 07-25-2011   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdigital View Post
For certain styles of photography, like for instance using external lighting, it's invaluable.
How many people use the M9 in a studio full time though...
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Old 07-25-2011   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdigital View Post
I'm tempted to put that whole block of text in my signature and keep it there for eternity. Perfectly written - Thanks.
+1
Wish i had said it so well.
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Old 07-25-2011   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
.....The biggest flaw of LCD-less design is that you will find out your lens cap was on when you are in your digital darkroom...
Or alternatively; the biggest flaw is that the greatest aid for fine-tuned pin-point exposure, [the histogram of course], is being thrown away, as is the means of checking the picture edge framing, and the opportunity to dump obviously duff images. A screenless digital 'M' was previously, and still is a daft idea for making the flawed 'M' worse rather than better, but there again I wish I had had histogram confirmation for when I was shooting 6x7 and 6x9 transparency [and often without opportunity for bracketing].

............ Chris
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Old 07-25-2011   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krötenblender View Post
I like the idea and was very surprised to see something similar to what I have been thinking about lately.

My ideas was not to skip the display completely, but to replace it with a very thin electronic paper. Most settings and image control could be done through the viewfinder, if it has a possibility to overlay the image just like the X100 does. I would even consider live-view for those, that want it, via bluetooth on your smart phone or webpad.

The electronic paper display at the back would be good for convenience stuff, such like more complex settings, that you do very rarely, or for displaying DOF-tables for attached lenses, battery and images left and stuff like that. Since it needs no power for displaying (only for changing display contents), it does not cost much battery.

Of course it can be used to control images in BW, but that would not be it's main purpose. But I have a great slogan for that:

Our display doesn't have pixels, it has grain!

I think, 50% of RFFlers would buy one...
got your point, thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebben View Post
You don’t need White balance if it only shoots raw, so that is one less thing to worry about.

Lenses are also detected with the 6Bit coding.
I wasn't certain about if WB adjustment makes any differences to raw files, thanks for the info, Sebben.
Half of my lenses are not coded, and I find lens selection on M9 to be very useful. Yeah, It's hard to keep this function without a LCD screen...



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post
Need some form of histogram display for feedback on exposure. Can the top display do that?
If the top screen is a little bit wider, yeah, I think so. Thanks, Chris.



Quote:
Originally Posted by umcelinho View Post
sorry for the somewhat straightforward comment, but why not get a black paper and cover the lcd as a flap? it works just the same as an lcd like the r-d1's, and it makes the camera chimping-proof. the only setting you need to change that uses the lcd is iso, right? and that's not a setting one changes that often while shooting... it's silly, but i'd give it a go.

it's cool to wonder how things can be improved, but it's a niche inside a niche still...

btw, the "turn on hcb mode" joke made me smile
no no no, it's totally cool, any thoughts or comments are welcome. The idea was simply to trade LCD for a slimmer body. Yep, it's a silly reason I know R-D1 type of flip screen looks cool, but it will make M9 even fatter.
Yep, I totally agree it's a niche inside a niche. This whole LCD-less concept is just a "what if" project that I challenge myself with. For entertainment purpose only, you can say.
Glad to hear that (HCB mode), thanks, umcelinho.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZlatkoBatistich View Post
I do like the idea of independent dials for ISO and exposure compensation. Maybe ISO doesn't have to be a menu item. The little Canon G10 has a nice ISO dial.
Yep, I love physical ISO dials!


Quote:
Originally Posted by fdigital View Post
This is a great study! I love the concepts and flowcharts - really enjoyable.
I have to echo that I wouldn't buy a digital camera without an LCD screen. Using a histogram for instant feedback on exactly where the exposure is, is very very important for me. Especially when working with external lighting.
Thanks, Gavin. Points taken.


Quote:
Originally Posted by arthurq View Post
I have been picturing that exact same camera in my head for years.

http://www.nikonweb.com/nasaf4/

well, maybe a BIT smaller.
Holy cow, that's one handsome rig!



Quote:
Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
A screenless digital camera so you can get back home and find you missed as many shots (focus off, bad composition, poor exposure) as when you used a film camera. That would make for a nostalgic experience, you could once again talk again about the one that got away, rather than the one you didn't try hard enough to get.

Sometimes I wonder if Leica's don't bring out the worst in people, where simply owning the camera is more important than the quality of the photographs, where polishing the camera and bragging about photographic purity is more important than getting out the door with it. And a screenless Leica fits right in that bracket. My time is valuable, I don't get enough of it to go out with my camera, so when somebody invented the LCD so less of my time was wasted I didn't see fit to kick them in the nuts, I more or less stopped using film.

Removing the LCD is just negative ambition, making a camera less productive for the sake of form. If you don't want to look at the LCD don't, put some black tape over it, it will cost less than a whole new camera, and you can re-create the warm glow you get when you discover you missed focus on your best shot after a weeks work, or a four hundred mile drive, or a significant occasion in your life

Steve
Yep, I see your points. Take it easy. I am merely working on a "not so serious" subject with a serious manner. As you can see, there are a lot of design dead ends, so it's safe to assume that you will not see an LCD-less digital camera to be produced, at least not in the near future. I do appreciate your honest inputs, 250swb



Quote:
Originally Posted by LCT View Post
Why not a slim body with reversible display? Epson did it 7 years ago and it works fine.
Thanks, but I afraid a reversible screen will make an M9 even thicker.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kzphoto View Post
Swivel display with controls like the m6/m7 on the back side! you could throw ISO & EV comp onto the back, and retain the cameras form. For people wanting to use the LCD, they could just flip the screen over. Problem solved.

Add in a Hybrid VF ala the Fuji x100 and you have a capable shooter.
A reversible screen will make an M9 thicker, but I really like the idea of putting ISO and EXP COMP on the reverse side, I will try to sketch out the idea (and hybrid VF) in the next round of sketches. Thanks! kzphoto.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tom.w.bn View Post
I'm not a fan of screen-less cameras but I really like the layout of your design and how you organized the ideas.
Nice to hear that, thanks, Tom.


Quote:
Originally Posted by theno23 View Post
I would really like an ISO dial and EV comp control, but I really value image review. I'm not much of a chimper, most of the time I don't do it, but when I want it, usually in tricky lighting or framing/parallax situations, it's invaluable.

I'd need EV comp much less if the M9's meter was any good! So maybe that's a solution to the wrong problem. I very rarely tweak the ISO dial on my M6ttl to get exposure compensation, even when shooting transparency, so some combination of a better meter, and more latitude would help.
Thanks for your feedbacks, theno23

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
That would happen to me a few times a year I'm sure...at least for a few frames. As a person who prefers a LCD, I also do not think it is important as many believe. If you need a screen to verify focus, then I'd say practice your focusing more... it's not that hard (unless you are using ultra-fast lenses).
Thanks, John, yeah, even with M9's screen, I still can't tell if I nail the focus or not


Quote:
Originally Posted by mto'brien View Post
I find it hilarious that some feel as though the person who invented the lcd is being "kicked in the nuts" here. What happened to having a little bit of fun? I believe the thread has the word fantasy in the title... jeez.
It's cool, thanks, Matt.


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Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Or alternatively; the biggest flaw is that the greatest aid for fine-tuned pin-point exposure, [the histogram of course], is being thrown away, as is the means of checking the picture edge framing, and the opportunity to dump obviously duff images. A screenless digital 'M' was previously, and still is a daft idea for making the flawed 'M' worse rather than better, but there again I wish I had had histogram confirmation for when I was shooting 6x7 and 6x9 transparency [and often without opportunity for bracketing].

............ Chris
Thanks for confirming the design dead end, Chris.


@all: Thanks for all your thoughts and comments. The project looks hopeless at this point, but I am not giving it up yet.
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Old 07-25-2011   #31
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Would the lack of an LCD make it cheaper?
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Old 07-25-2011   #32
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I guess not, people pay more for odd-ball Leica's. Like meter-less MP (MP Classic) :-(
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Old 07-25-2011   #33
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"Yeah, I'm sure it will handle nicely, but it's fugly..."
Hey, lay off my Hexar AF!!
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Old 07-26-2011   #34
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Despite what some people here are saying, I think this camera would do well. I'm sure it could be the Leica digital that would make some film users want to flirt with digital.
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Old 07-26-2011   #35
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I was wondering some time ago about screen less digital Leica and came up with this idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTFmUuORNN8
Detachable screen with bluetooth connection to the camera ( when u loose it u might use ur IPhone with some kind of Leica App ).
This whole panel might have buttons to operate or be touch panel instead.
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Old 07-26-2011   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
That would happen to me a few times a year I'm sure...at least for a few frames. As a person who prefers a LCD, I also do not think it is important as many believe. If you need a screen to verify focus, then I'd say practice your focusing more... it's not that hard (unless you are using ultra-fast lenses).
+1

This is from an old thread but I still like this digital barnack! Only, it does have a screen and it does not have interchangeable lenses. But, it is cool, nonetheless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJDtm...eature=related
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Old 07-26-2011   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bensyverson View Post
"Yeah, I'm sure it will handle nicely, but it's fugly..."
Hey, lay off my Hexar AF!!
What? Hexar AF is nicely designed

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Despite what some people here are saying, I think this camera would do well. I'm sure it could be the Leica digital that would make some film users want to flirt with digital.
Thanks, John

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex3 View Post
I was wondering some time ago about screen less digital Leica and came up with this idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTFmUuORNN8
Detachable screen with bluetooth connection to the camera ( when u loose it u might use ur IPhone with some kind of Leica App ).
This whole panel might have buttons to operate or be touch panel instead.
Yeah, EX3, Thanks for sharing your video. That is one way to achieve the screen-less design (by using the screen which is already in your bag, cell phone). But at this point, it's quite difficult to make this concept user friendly...

@Dave: That is one handsome... Sonack?
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Old 07-26-2011   #38
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Okay, going through the comments I have received so far, here are 2 concepts I like.
The 1st concept's EVF is not Fuji X100 kind of EVF. It just gives you a quick flashback of the photos you just took, as a visual confirmation, and you can use the "Ex-M2-Rewind-Knob" to navigate the photos you took.
I think EVF is a great solution for a fully retro design like shutter cocking lever, back ISO dial and even a digital Leicavit with Hi-Cap battery(Dirk's idea) All the essential controls are physical, no menus, no jpgs, no profiles... etc. Just like a film M without the film scanning part.
The 2nd one is just like an R-D1, I am not crazy about it, but I think it will have better public acceptances.

Last edited by JuJu : 09-12-2014 at 17:45. Reason: update image URL
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Old 07-26-2011   #39
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Consider a 8-9k worth of camera that u are going to change it...ermm..its just too risky...plus a duct tape could do a good job as well..and if you wan something slimmer...there are alot more alternatives...
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Old 07-26-2011   #40
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digicamera without LCD, natural laws of camera world does not apply to Leicaland

seriously though. cool scetches, wonder how todo those ?

thicker bottom plate that has battery cells has been on my wish list too. guess swivel would be best way to handle LCD "issue"
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