M9 memory write errors

[steelduck]

Has any of the M9 users seen this issue?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVaNXbN12KI

Occasionally if I press the view button while the M9 is still writing to the card (red led is blinking), the camera hangs for a minute or two. Then it seems to resume working. I can still view the pictures in the preview, but when I power off the camera all those pictures that where in the buffer and taken after the hangup are lost. They appear 0KB files on the card.

The same behavior happens on most of my SDHC cards. Two new Sandisk 8GB Ultra cards, Two new Lexar Pro 8GB cards. I always format my cards in the camera.

[Ben Z]

Originally Posted by steelduck

Occasionally if I press the view button while the M9 is still writing to the card (red led is blinking), the camera hangs for a minute or two.

Old Vaudeville joke, but very apt:

Patient to Doctor: Doctor, it hurts when I do this. What should I do?

Doctor to Patient: Stop doing it!

[Phantomas]

Stop doing it sounds like a great sollution. These cameras are not made to be used. Hopefully Leica will come up with an upgrade that let's you fondle the camera AND keep the pictures. Wonder how much extra that "luxury" would cost.

[Paul Luscher]

M9s not made to be used, Phantomas?

Piffle. Use mine. A lot. Works OK as far as I can see. I just don't do things like try to view pix while the card is still writing--on any camera I have.That'd be a little like jamming a car into gear while putting the pedal to the metal. The results aren't likely be good-and it wouldn't be the car's fault.

Like the guy said "If it hurts, don't do it." That simple.

[Phantomas]

I'm just surprised that problem exists. On my DSLRs I can view the photos the instant after they are taken. To me the fact that powering down the camera while buffering resulting in image loss sounds like a serious issue. I don't know, maybe I'm expecting too much from a 5K+ camera...

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by Phantomas

Stop doing it sounds like a great sollution. These cameras are not made to be used. Hopefully Leica will come up with an upgrade that let's you fondle the camera AND keep the pictures. Wonder how much extra that "luxury" would cost.

Hopefully you get to install one of the *free* spell checkers available for either IE or Firefox.

And to own either an M8 or M9 one day so you know what you're talking/typing about.

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by Phantomas

I'm just surprised that problem exists. On my DSLRs I can view the photos the instant after they are taken. To me the fact that powering down the camera while buffering resulting in image loss sounds like a serious issue. I don't know, maybe I'm expecting too much from a 5K+ camera...

Guy buys an expensive motorcycle.

1) forgets to put down a foot once it stops.

- "But, I never needed to do that with my Escalade! What a waste of money".


2) forgets that to accelerate, you must use the right hand

- "But, I always used my foot to do that with my Escalade! What a waste of money"


3) forgets that in a motorcycle, you can't use a bike rack

- "But, I always used to haul my bike with my Escalade! What a waste of money"


4) forgets that there is no spare tire on that expensive motorcycle

- "But, I always had room for my spare tire on my Escalade! What a waste of money"



5) forgets that there is no air conditioner on that expensive motorcycle

- "What a bunch of morons, they can't design a proper vehicle! I always had my air conditioner in my Escalade! What a waste of money"


6) forgets that there really isn't much room in the M8 or M9 for having the same kind of processing power as modern DSLRs

- "On my DSLRs I can view the photos the instant after they are taken. What a waste of money"

[doolittle]

Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A.

forgets that there really isn't much room in the M8 or M9 for having the same kind of processing power as modern DSLRs

Not sure if room is the problem. Pocketable compacts and micro four third cameras seem to manage.

A potential cause of lost once in a lifetime photos is a big deal. For the moment, not doing it seems the best work around, however it does sound like something that could be addressed in a firmware update (even if it was just to stop the view button working while the file is writing).

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by doolittle

Not sure if room is the problem. Pocketable compacts and micro four third cameras seem to manage.

How many of those shoot RAW? I have a Lumix GF1, and I have to wait for the image to be written to the card before I can inspect it. Hitting the "Play" button does nothing until that first file is completely written to the card.

The M8 is slower writing to the card of the same speed as the Lumix GF1; I can't attest to the M9 (anybody care to dump that piece of crud on a DHL box and send it my way?)

Originally Posted by doolittle

A potential cause of lost once in a lifetime photos is a big deal. For the moment, not doing it seems the best work around, however it does sound like something that could be addressed in a firmware update (even if it was just to stop the view button working while the file is writing).

I agree. Although, I've never experienced the issue described in the OP. I really wonder if the memory card has anything to do with the "hiccup" experienced with the properly-timed combination of issues described? This is something that QA (not manufacturing, but systems QA) would need to add to their testing plan.

But outright childishly dismissing this as a "paid too much for it to have this problem" gets (pardon the double-negative) nobody nowhere. To which you can only have juvenile counter-responses (like mine, purposefully above), because, really, the tone doesn't allow to move farther beyond that.

[Phantomas]

Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A.

Hopefully you get to install one of the *free* spell checkers available for either IE or Firefox.

And to own either an M8 or M9 one day so you know what you're talking/typing about.

Thanks, but I'll pass on M8/9, mainly because when I part with such large sum of cash I expect a product to confirm to at least some standards set by the industry. I'm not asking for unattainable like a 9fps burst mode and not asking to "turn a motorcycle into a car". Simple things like a screen that is at least on par with current P&S models, a fact that I don't risk loosing images if I press play button, and a better high ISO would be nice too. Despite posting on RFF and enjoying rangefinder cameras hugely, I'm not the guy to blindly drop everything for a red dot. M9 looks like it could be a great camera, but there are some serious shortcomings that did not require miracles to implement. I very well understand what Leica is and that their pricing is not really relevant to their technical capabilities, but neither should they cut corners.

By the way, I just took P7000 (Nikon's compact) and shot RAW in continuos mode, pressed "play" straight away. Guess what You might want to revisit your statement about processing requiring much real estate rather than worry about one single typo.

If the QC is the issue and the problem lies with that particular camera, fine, happens to all manufacturers. But I've read several other cases of users loosing their images during buffering.


__________________

[steelduck]

The same thing happens sometimes even without pressing the play. I have set the camera to show the preview if I keep the shutter down, after taking the photo.

To everyone one who says don't do it: are you frigging serious??? Sheeez, fanboyism to the max! This is a bug that should not exist on 5000e camera.

[250swb]

Originally Posted by steelduck

To everyone one who says don't do it: are you frigging serious??? Sheeez, fanboyism to the max! This is a bug that should not exist on 5000e camera.

Sell it, no seriously, get rid of it as soon as you can. There are a lot of people who have grown up with the foibles of Leica's both film and digital, and plenty who have come late and adapted. But if you can't get across that gap to where the image is more important and mentally leave the foibles behind its not for you. Its not about fanboyism, which I think is a very insulting thing to say to knowledgeable people, or the price of the camera, but if you want your cake and eat it, don't buy a Leica.

To try and help you out by saying what usually helps for other people, well, obviously 'don't do it' is top of the list, but buy a fast SDHC card, try to stick to just saving DNG files rather than perhaps DNG + JPEG, and keep the auto review function off or set for just a second and all of which gives the camera's small brain less to do. Consider if your camera is faulty, because simple things work for the vast majority of users, you shouldn't need to get into the depths of computor lore to make it work for instance.

Maybe you have discovered something that money can't buy if you equate a 5000 Euro with Canon like operations, but if you are going to approach it with the 'my Canon doesn't do this' attitude you are just not going to enjoy using a Leica.

Steve

[steelduck]

My M6 works just fine as it should, but the M9 does not. I am shooting DMG only, The preview is off now and I ma using SanDisk Ultra and Lexar Pro cards. None of these " best practices" help. The camera has frozen a few times even without pressing the play.

During the last 4 weeks I have lost about 50 pictures. Should I just think this is normal Leica behavior not care that I cannot trust this camera to write my pictures to a memory card. Just part of the Leica experience.

The M9 has worked 10 months without a flaw and now after the firmware update everything has gone haywire. I have reloaded the firmware several times, I have tried 6 different new cards. I have read that several people have similar issues, so I am not sure if this is something that can be fixed or is this a bug in the software.

[Jim-st]

Is it under warranty? If so, I'd ring Leica and ask them to fix it.

My M8 used to have cut-out problems, but they fixed it (and gave extra 12 months warranty)

[thegman]

I don't have an M9, but it sounds like a bug to me, I think it's one thing to tolerate slow file writing, it's another to actually lose photos.

I'd talk to Leica, or maybe actually demo the issue in a Leica dealer somewhere if you can. I think any lost picture (assuming you don't yank the battery out or something) is a fault. Simply pushing a button whilst it's doing something should not break it.

[dubes]

Originally Posted by Jim-st

Is it under warranty? If so, I'd ring Leica and ask them to fix it.

+1. Seriously, if any camera gave me the sorts of problems you're having, I'd be getting in touch with technical support and sending off for repair, not posting on Internet forums. And if all else fails, as Steve suggests, sell it. Life's too short to be fretting over unreliable equipment.

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by Phantomas

By the way, I just took P7000 (Nikon's compact) and shot RAW in continuos mode, pressed "play" straight away. Guess what You might want to revisit your statement about processing requiring much real estate rather than worry about one single typo.

A friend of mine has one. I've had it with me at the same time as the M8; I can see how the available volume for electronics in the M8 is smaller (mostly due to the sectioning/compartmentalization) than the Coolpix P7000.

It's vs. its is not a typo. Tihs is.

Originally Posted by Phantomas

If the QC is the issue and the problem lies with that particular camera, fine, happens to all manufacturers.

I can agree with that. That sentiment was not expressed in your original posting.

Originally Posted by Phantomas

But I've read several other cases of users loosing their images during buffering.

I can see users losing their images, but loosing? That's very poetic

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by dubes

+1. Seriously, if any camera gave me the sorts of problems you're having, I'd be getting in touch with technical support and sending off for repair, not posting on Internet forums. And if all else fails, as Steve suggests, sell it. Life's too short to be fretting over unreliable equipment.

Agreed. This particular issue could be a number of things, from faulty electronics, to the SD card not being up to snuff, to a firmware issue they need to address right away.

[Ben Z]

Originally Posted by steelduck

The same thing happens sometimes even without pressing the play. I have set the camera to show the preview if I keep the shutter down, after taking the photo.

To everyone one who says don't do it: are you frigging serious??? Sheeez, fanboyism to the max! This is a bug that should not exist on 5000e camera.

I didn't mean to be glib. There's undoubtedly a way to foul-up any camera or electronic device if you make it try to do enough things at once. It's the same thing with our computers. At some point if you multitask enough you'll run out of memory and get an error.

But if this "glitch" is something new, that never happened before when you did the same thing, then definitely I would suggest you send the camera to Leica for repair. I'm sure you'd agree it's more likely to solve your problem than venting on a forum, as cathartic as that can be.

[steelduck]

I have opened a service ticket and recieved an email saying I should update the firmware again. I did that, it did not help. I replied to Leica, that it did not help with the video above and I am not waiting for them to reply to my mail.

Leica Forum has quite a few users, that have similar problems and I posted here to see if this is a common problem, which could mean that I send my M9 to Solms and there is no available fix.

The weird part is that I have one old (2 years) Sandisk Extreme III 4GB card that works just fine on my M9. I have 3 Lexar Pro 8GB, 2 Sandisk Ultra, 1 Sandisk Ultra II 8GB and 2 Sandisk Extreme 8GB cards that all fail.

(ps. I am a systems engineer in a software business, so please dont tell me that this is normal behavior on electronic devices... well, it might be on poorly designed ones. )

[jsrockit]

The only time this has happened to me is when I am not patient and turn it off when it is writing. With the M9, as long as you give it (a lot) of time to write without turning off the camera, you'll be ok. It's slowness takes getting used to at first. Also, when this happened to me, the card died. No matter what formatting I did, it would not work anymore. I sent it back to Sandisk (Ultra).

[furcafe]

This has been similar to my experience, both w/the old & current firmware, especially when I've filled the buffer w/a succession of shots, i.e., the only time I've lost a file (& it's only been 1 @ a time, not a batch) has been when I turn off the camera, or the battery dies, while it's writing to the card. However, I've not had a problem w/a card dying or needing replacement.

Edit: I'm using Transcend SDHC 8 & 16 GB cards.

Originally Posted by jsrockit

The only time this has happened to me is when I am not patient and turn it off when it is writing. With the M9, as long as you give it (a lot) of time to write without turning off the camera, you'll be ok. It's slowness takes getting used to at first. Also, when this happened to me, the card died. No matter what formatting I did, it would not work anymore. I sent it back to Sandisk (Ultra).

[Ben Z]

Originally Posted by steelduck

I have opened a service ticket and recieved an email saying I should update the firmware again. I did that, it did not help. I replied to Leica, that it did not help with the video above and I am not waiting for them to reply to my mail.

Leica Forum has quite a few users, that have similar problems and I posted here to see if this is a common problem, which could mean that I send my M9 to Solms and there is no available fix.

The weird part is that I have one old (2 years) Sandisk Extreme III 4GB card that works just fine on my M9. I have 3 Lexar Pro 8GB, 2 Sandisk Ultra, 1 Sandisk Ultra II 8GB and 2 Sandisk Extreme 8GB cards that all fail.

(ps. I am a systems engineer in a software business, so please dont tell me that this is normal behavior on electronic devices... well, it might be on poorly designed ones. )

The only thing I might suggest, if you haven't, is download the firmware update file again, and then reinstall that one. I've heard of corruption happening in downloading or unzipping the file. If that doesn't work, then I'm out of suggestions.

I'm using 2GB Sandisk Ultra cards, so if the problem is with the bigger capacity cards that could explain why it has never happened to me. Likewise I have never used continuous shooting mode, keep auto-review turned off, and have never pushed the play button while the red light was blinking. (I shoot DNG-compressed, and by the time I get the camera down from my eye I've never seen the red light still blinking). So I'd have to duplicate your actions to see if my M9 acts the same...and I'd rather not tempt fate, as my M9 has worked flawlessly thus far.

You seem to be convinced Leica won't be able to fix this issue, and not willing to let them try. Perhaps you're not wrong. But then what are your remaining options? Seems to me, either follow my original suggestion of "don't do that"...or sell the camera and buy something that functions in a way that pleases you? I guess what I'm wondering is, what do you think this forum can do to help?

[steelduck]

I am letting the Leica to try, but it takes them 7 days to answer every email reply I give them abou the issue, so I am trying to find out if there are others with the problem and has it been fixed by Leica or some other solution.

The issue occurs also without doing anything, but taking pictures. I had that two days ago. I was taking a series of pictures maybe 1 second apart and and the camera crashed on the fourth or fifth and lost all the pictures exept the first.

I am not the onlyone with this issue:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...ml#post1775309

ps. I have downloaded the firmware again and reloaded, but it did not help. Thanks for the tip though. I just bought the 50mm Summilux ASPH, so I do not wnt to sell the damn thing either - I just want it to save my pictures to the memorycard.

[250swb]

Just take it to your Leica dealer steelduck and let them send it to Leica for repair. What you are describing isn't normal and you have to consider the vast majority of M9 users don't have this problem at all so its not firmware related or a fundamental characteristic everybody can replicate. Some may have something that looks like a similar problem, some its users error, but yours is at a level beyond all of those.

It still feels like an SD card problem to me, but it could be an electrical problem in the slot as much a card itself. And if it started after you last upgraded the Firmware have you in any way second guessed the proceedure and omitted a step. Like not re-formatting the card after you uploaded the Firmware off it? Do you reformat the card in camera after downloading all images to delete them, otherwise if you have used a PC and say Photoshop this can add unwanted files onto the card that are alien to the M9. Have you considered all your cards may be fake or faulty, not unusual if all bought from the same dodgy dealer. You aren't placing your cards or camera on top of a cathode monitor, near hi-fi speakers or anywhere else highly magnetic?

Now don't get riled up, I'm just trying to think of the simple things that can go wrong because more often than not that is the problem. When the customer says the car is broken the mechanic should first check the tank for petrol.

Steve