Zorki 5 - Faulty rewind?

[Coldkennels]

I just got hold of a Zorki 5, but after setting it all up and checking it over, I've found that for some reason the film won't rewind. When I turn the right-hand shutter release (on the frame counter) clockwise, the shutter is disengaged, but the gears inside just won't turn backwards at all. Does anyone have any clue as to what's going on here - and how to fix it???

[t6un]

Hi. The "left-hand shutter release" is the actual rewind button. The real shutter release can be rotated only to lock it down for long exposures.

[wolves3012]

The shutter release is the one in the middle of the counter. The other button, nearer the speed-dial, is the rewind release. Common to mistake that one for the shutter release because it will release the shutter.

By the way, the 5 is a lovely camera, one of my favourites. No frills, great VF, wide-base RF and little chance of light-leaks.

[Coldkennels]

*facepalm*

Wow. I feel pretty dumb. I assumed that because the right-hand one appeared to lock, it HAD to be the rewind release. I just shredded a film for no reason!

(No real loss, mind: I'd not taken any photos, and it was only £1 Kodak colour neg. Still...)

I bought the Zorki 5 on a whim, to be honest. Well, more out of curiosity than anything, really. I was wondering if it was any smaller than the Fed 2, and it is, but not by much. I was quite amazed to find that it actually has a slightly longer baselength than the Fed 2 (despite the supposed common knowledge) so how come people always cite the Fed 2 as the most accurate FSU camera?

Anyway, I'll have to go play with it tomorrow, now that I know it works. Exciting times.

[wolves3012]

Originally Posted by Coldkennels

*facepalm*

Wow. I feel pretty dumb. I assumed that because the right-hand one appeared to lock, it HAD to be the rewind release. I just shredded a film for no reason!

(No real loss, mind: I'd not taken any photos, and it was only £1 Kodak colour neg. Still...)

I bought the Zorki 5 on a whim, to be honest. Well, more out of curiosity than anything, really. I was wondering if it was any smaller than the Fed 2, and it is, but not by much. I was quite amazed to find that it actually has a slightly longer baselength than the Fed 2 (despite the supposed common knowledge) so how come people always cite the Fed 2 as the most accurate FSU camera?

Anyway, I'll have to go play with it tomorrow, now that I know it works. Exciting times.

You're not the first to make this mistake and I doubt you'll be the last! At least there's no harm done. Just so you don't make the other mistake...on a Zorki 5 do NOT wind or fire the shutter without a lens attached. If you do, you can damage the selector or RF mechanisms. If you really must wind/fire, make certain you hold the RF sensor pushed slightly inwards.

By the way, neither FED2 nor Zorki 5 have the longest baselength in FSUs - they are beaten by quite a margin by the Kiev's 90mm baselength and Kievs also have what is probably a more accurate focussing mechanism.

[john341]

That is something that amazed me..winding on and releasing the shutter without a lens in place was disaster..still a mystery to me..never seen it before. I agree, Zorki 5 top machine (with lens)

[Coldkennels]

Originally Posted by wolves3012

Just so you don't make the other mistake...on a Zorki 5 do NOT wind or fire the shutter without a lens attached. If you do, you can damage the selector or RF mechanisms. If you really must wind/fire, make certain you hold the RF sensor pushed slightly inwards.

See, somehow I was aware of this. I don't know how, but I'd heard it somewhere. Incidentally, I took the top of the Zorki to clean it/calibrate it (irritatingly, the infinity adjustment screw is too low to get at through the hole), and could see where the problem lies. It's a very... compact (!) design.

Just to explain for those who haven't seen it, the arm that transfers the movement of the rangefinder cam to the prism behind the rangefinder window is very, very close to the speed selector wheel. With no lens in place, it moves back enough to get in the way of the vertical tab that you feel dropping into place when you change the speed, and the two get nicely tangled up. Even with a lens on, they can run worryingly close together.

Originally Posted by wolves3012

By the way, neither FED2 nor Zorki 5 have the longest baselength in FSUs - they are beaten by quite a margin by the Kiev's 90mm baselength and Kiev's also have what is probably a more accurate focussing mechanism.

I didn't consider the Kievs! I completely forget about them; I only ever think in LTM.

[wolves3012]

Just to expand on the RF baselength issue: something often overlooked is that all the FSU cameras are actually about the same effective baselength, even the Kiev isn't much above the others.

Actual baselength x VF magnification = effective baselength.

Most are around .75 magnification, including the FED 2 and Zorki 5/6 which are the longer actual-baselength models. This makes them roughly the same as (say) a FED/Zorki 1 or Zorki 3/4 which is about 1:1 magnification. The difference is that any optical magnification above 1:1 magnifies any mechanical error and any below 1:1 diminshes it. A FED 2/Zorki 5 etc is, therefore, superior to most but only by this magnificaton-effect margin and the Kiev still beats all the LTMs by another small margin.

[Coldkennels]

Originally Posted by wolves3012

The difference is that any optical magnification above 1:1 magnifies any mechanical error and any below 1:1 diminshes it. A FED 2/Zorki 5 etc is, therefore, superior to most but only by this magnificaton-effect margin and the Kiev still beats all the LTMs by another small margin.

Interesting. I knew about effective baselength (and had noticed the higher magnification of the Zorki 4, for example), but hadn't thought about the effects of this.

However, while the Fed 2 and Zorki 5 both come out more or less the same on paper, I think I'd trust a well-calibrated Fed 2 over the well-calibrated Zorki 5. The Fed finder, being so much dimmer, has much more contrast, and is much easier to focus accurately in my opinion. In certain conditions the Zorki seems to struggle. It's a lovely and bright viewfinder, but for focusing it really can't match up to the Fed 2.

[stevebrot]

Originally Posted by wolves3012

Just to expand on the RF baselength issue: something often overlooked is that all the FSU cameras are actually about the same effective baselength, even the Kiev isn't much above the others.

Actual baselength x VF magnification = effective baselength.

Most are around .75 magnification, including the FED 2 and Zorki 5/6 which are the longer actual-baselength models. This makes them roughly the same as (say) a FED/Zorki 1 or Zorki 3/4 which is about 1:1 magnification. The difference is that any optical magnification above 1:1 magnifies any mechanical error and any below 1:1 diminshes it. A FED 2/Zorki 5 etc is, therefore, superior to most but only by this magnificaton-effect margin and the Kiev still beats all the LTMs by another small margin.

Here are a few comparisons of EBL:

• Zorki-4: 41mm
• Kiev-4: 81mm
• Leica M3: 62.3mm
• Leica M7: 49.3mm
• Canon P: 41mm
• FED-2: ~50mm
• Zorki-5/6: ~50mm
• Bessa R4A: 19.2mm
• Bessa R3A: 37mm
• Olympus XA: 9.6mm

As you can see, the Kiev blows the others away. The difference is readily apparent in use if you have several bodies to compare on the same subject. The Kiev allows for much greater focus precision. (I have actually sat down with my Zorki-4K, Kiev-4A, FED-2, and Canon P and done just that. Amazing the difference.)


Steve

[wolves3012]

Originally Posted by Coldkennels

Interesting. I knew about effective baselength (and had noticed the higher magnification of the Zorki 4, for example), but hadn't thought about the effects of this.

However, while the Fed 2 and Zorki 5 both come out more or less the same on paper, I think I'd trust a well-calibrated Fed 2 over the well-calibrated Zorki 5. The Fed finder, being so much dimmer, has much more contrast, and is much easier to focus accurately in my opinion. In certain conditions the Zorki seems to struggle. It's a lovely and bright viewfinder, but for focusing it really can't match up to the Fed 2.

A lot depends on personal preference here. In poor light the dim finder of the earlier FED 2s is a handicap but yes, the increased contrast is good in brighter light. My experience is that my Zorki 5 blows away both the FED 2s I have/had for ease of focussing, although my current (later) FED 2 is nearer. Very much MY opinion here though, what works for you is always best!

[wolves3012]

Originally Posted by stevebrot

Here are a few comparisons of EBL:

• Zorki-4: 41mm
• Kiev-4: 81mm
• Leica M3: 62.3mm
• Leica M7: 49.3mm
• Canon P: 41mm
• FED-2: ~50mm
• Zorki-5/6: ~50mm
• Bessa R4A: 19.2mm
• Bessa R3A: 37mm
• Olympus XA: 9.6mm

As you can see, the Kiev blows the others away. The difference is readily apparent in use if you have several bodies to compare on the same subject. The Kiev allows for much greater focus precision. (I have actually sat down with my Zorki-4K, Kiev-4A, FED-2, and Canon P and done just that. Amazing the difference.)


Steve

Interesting figures there, where did you find them? The figure for the Kiev implies a VF magnification of 0.91. I don't have the means to measure it and nowhere can I find a definitive figure but eyeballing it against the Zorki 5 and FED 2 says "no way"! Looking through two VFs at once, I'd say the Zorki 5/6, Kiev and FED 2 all have very similar magnifications which I estimate to be around the 0.75 mark. That still leaves the Kiev 1.34 times as accurate, all other things being equal.

EDIT: if the figure for the FED 2 is correct, that gives the magnification as 50/67=0.746. Again, IF, that makes the Kiev's EBL as 67.5mm based on my estimate. Too many IFs there to say that's accurate.

[Coldkennels]

Originally Posted by wolves3012

A lot depends on personal preference here. In poor light the dim finder of the earlier FED 2s is a handicap but yes, the increased contrast is good in brighter light. [...] Very much MY opinion here though, what works for you is always best!

I guess so, being as I find the opposite; while the dim FED finder is more tricky to compose with, focusing is so much easier in dim light with the FED for me... so I guess it's all personal preference.

[stevebrot]

Originally Posted by wolves3012

Interesting figures there, where did you find them? The figure for the Kiev implies a VF magnification of 0.91. I don't have the means to measure it and nowhere can I find a definitive figure but eyeballing it against the Zorki 5 and FED 2 says "no way"! Looking through two VFs at once, I'd say the Zorki 5/6, Kiev and FED 2 all have very similar magnifications which I estimate to be around the 0.75 mark. That still leaves the Kiev 1.34 times as accurate, all other things being equal.

EDIT: if the figure for the FED 2 is correct, that gives the magnification as 50/67=0.746. Again, IF, that makes the Kiev's EBL as 67.5mm based on my estimate. Too many IFs there to say that's accurate.

I got the numbers for the Kiev from Fedka.com. Karen Nakamura's Photoethnogra;phy Web Site says that the viewfinder is 1x magnification. In retrospect, I find both numbers a little suspect. The Contax II had a 0.75x magnification viewfinder and given the heritage of the Kiev, that figure sounds much more plausible.

That being said, I still stand by my personal experience regarding the comparative precision of the rangefinders. Divergence of a receding line is much more pronounced with the Kiev and at distances greater than about 30' the Kiev allows for much finer focus precision than my other rangefinder cameras.


Steve

[wolves3012]

Originally Posted by stevebrot

I got the numbers for the Kiev from Fedka.com. Karen Nakamura's Photoethnogra;phy Web Site says that the viewfinder is 1x magnification. In retrospect, I find both numbers a little suspect. The Contax II had a 0.75x magnification viewfinder and given the heritage of the Kiev, that figure sounds much more plausible.

That being said, I still stand by my personal experience regarding the comparative precision of the rangefinders. Divergence of a receding line is much more pronounced with the Kiev and at distances greater than about 30' the Kiev allows for much finer focus precision than my other rangefinder cameras.


Steve

I find those figures highly suspect, there is absolutely NO way a Kiev has a 1:1 VF.

As for the precision of the Kievs, I am not going to disagree with what you say, I think they are, indeed, superior in that respect.

[stevebrot]

Originally Posted by wolves3012

I find those figures highly suspect...

So which of us is going to drop Karen Nakamura a message suggesting that she update her article? She is pretty authoritative on the Web and it would be a shame to have her be wrong on this matter.


Steve