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Digital Leica M8 / M8.2 / M9 / M-E /Mono / M10 aka "M" Discussions about the Leica M8 /M 8.2 / M9 / M9-P/ M-E / M Monochrom / M10 aka "M": Leica digital M mount rangefinder cameras. Naming the new digital M the "Leica M" is VERY unfortunate as it will only confuse newbies with other Leica M cameras of the the past. Happily there is room for confusion with only the past 59 years of Leica M production ... since Leica introduced the Leica M system in 1953. All Hail for the Leica Marketing Department learning Leica M history!

View Poll Results: M9/Summilux OR M8.2/Noctilux
M8.2 w/ 50mm Noctilux f1 55 16.22%
M9 w/ 50mm Summilux pre-asph f1.4 284 83.78%
Voters: 339. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-14-2011   #51
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Roger,

no problem at all. It is good to know that you also tend you rate that film more like 1250 ISO (E.I. ?) or even slower. That helps for future use.

Cheers,

Gabor
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Old 05-14-2011   #52
Brian Sweeney
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The last time I checked the manual, neither the M8.2 or M9 could take ISO 1600 C41 film. But my original DSLR could.
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Old 05-21-2011   #53
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Also remember that with the crop factor on the M8 an f/1 lens is roughly equivalent to a f/1.4 lens on a full frame sensor when it comes to shooting at the shallowest depth of field.

I use an M8 & 40mm cron and love it btw, personally I won't upgrade for a few years yet but when I do I think the M9 with a 50 lux would be perfect.
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Old 05-21-2011   #54
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If I were fortunate enough to be in your shoes I'd not hesitate to go for
the M9 Summilux combo. Not only is it a great lens but all the other
Leitz lens can be used as they were intended when you decide
(and you will :-)) to branch out.
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Old 05-21-2011   #55
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Well, the resale value of the Noctilux is most likely to keep going up and the M9 will go down. If you've never used a Noctilux, I'd suggest you get one first and learn how to use it and see how you like it. If you don't like it (and you need to give it some time), you will most likely be able to sell it for at least as much as you paid (unless you seriously overpay) and get the M9/Summilux combo. The longer you wait on the Noct, the less likely you're going to ever get it due to the rising prices. If you're curious enough to ask the question, try it first. If you like it, you can start saving for the M9 or wait until they come down to M8 levels. I, for one, like the 67mm effective focal length. It's a nice compromise between 50mm and 75-90mm that are your choices on FF. I will probably make the jump eventually but there's no where near the choice of lenses in the 75-90mm range that there are in the 50mm range.
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Old 05-24-2011   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodl View Post
Well, the resale value of the Noctilux is most likely to keep going up and the M9 will go down.
While true, is it the better investment or the better photography tool that the OP wants?
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Old 05-24-2011   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
While true, is it the better investment or the better photography tool that the OP wants?
I think you missed my point.
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Old 05-24-2011   #58
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Quote:
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I think you missed my point.
It was early in the morning...
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Old 05-28-2011   #59
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I think of it as follows: do you really "need" a Ferrari to drive fast?
Does anyone here really need such cameras and fast lenses?
Many want such equipment.

This is another issue.
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Old 05-28-2011   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
I think of it as follows: do you really "need" a Ferrari to drive fast?
Does anyone here really need such cameras and fast lenses?
Many want such equipment.

This is another issue.
Well, your 1960 VW bug won't go 175 mph but your Ferrari will. Whether you need to go 175 mph is the real question. And whether your need and your want coincide is really up to each person.
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Old 05-28-2011   #61
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This is true. Maybe you need to go 80mph, and then a Yashica will o?
You get the drift ....
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Old 05-28-2011   #62
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Continuing the car analogy - other than at high speed, cars like Ferraris can be less pleasant to drive than a 'normal' car, and personally I find the Noctilux far far less pleasant to operate than a pre-asph 50 Lux.

In some cases more is better - but with the Nocti 'more' comes at a price (and not just a financial one).
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Old 05-28-2011   #63
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Luxury items can be enjoyed by some people. This is fine.
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Old 05-30-2011   #64
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Do you need to have it all on the same day? Actually an M9 and Summicron in the proper hands would blow most of us out of the proverbial soup.
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M9 with the Summilux
Old 06-02-2011   #65
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M9 with the Summilux

I went with the M9 along with a 35 cron, 24 Elmar, and a 50/1.5 Nokton as the starter kit.

I have since added the Summilux ASPH.

Cost of the tools and availability drive the decision, I just do not see myself own a Noctilux.

. . . . . then again I did not see myself owning a M9 either.


It's good to have choices.

. . . . . just need the money to fund them.

Life is Grand!

Dan

Last edited by seakayaker1 : 06-04-2011 at 15:19.
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Old 06-02-2011   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fates View Post
Get the M9 and keep the Nokton 50/1.1. With the savings you can buy a reasonably priced sports car.

I'd go with this.
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Old 06-02-2011   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayneb9584 View Post
I'd go with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fates View Post
Get the M9 and keep the Nokton 50/1.1. With the savings you can buy a reasonably priced sports car.
The caveat here is getting a good Nokton. A number of the CV lenses have a pretty wide range of sample variation. I've had both the Nokton 1.1 and 1.5 and wasn't impressed with either. I've seen shots by others that appeared to be much better samples. However, even the best Nokton 1.1 won't come within a mile of either the Noctilux or the Summilux unless of course all you're going to do is post tiny samples such as we're limited to on this and other forums. That, to use RAID's analogy, is like going 35MPH and I've seen posts on another forum declaring that a P&S would do as well. Note that I don't subscribe to that last theory.
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Old 06-02-2011   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Fluff View Post
Continuing the car analogy - other than at high speed, cars like Ferraris can be less pleasant to drive than a 'normal' car, and personally I find the Noctilux far far less pleasant to operate than a pre-asph 50 Lux.

In some cases more is better - but with the Nocti 'more' comes at a price (and not just a financial one).
I fully agree that the Noct is harder to use than the Lux. That doesn't mean it's not the right lens if it fulfills your purpose.
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Old 06-02-2011   #69
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Logical decision:

Noctilux prices still hiking upwards.
M9 prices coming down.

Buy Noctilux now, pick up M9 later, when fundings and price is ready for you.

Heart decision:
Buy Noctilux now, sell whatever goes in the way of the process and shoot it, whatever camera it is on.
If you are a Noctilux man (and I do not mean the cat shot @f1 and wide open hydrant shot in summer at noon with NDs as thick as ashtrays), you will already know, what you MUST do.

I use a Noctilux f1 mainly on my M8.2.
I use a 35mm on a second body with pushed film.

I looove my Noctilux - everything else either pales by comparison or is really just hot for a short time, until I pick up the Noct again.

If you should by a Noctilux, the most important things of all is, to make sure, that the lens and your camera is properly adjusted to each other and your major intended shooting style (close up, stopped down to f2 or wide open @ ∞ or f1.2 @ 1.5 meter?).

Only, if they are set to each other, you will find full enjoyment and can close your ears to the internet crowd of sauer talking "stinkin' fat lens!" people.

Oh and if you are certain, the Noct is for you, buy a nice beaten user v2 or v3, which saves you a heap of money upfront, but will perform as a new in box last edition v4 - the wooden box won't make you take better pictures ;-)

Noctilux on M8.2:


"the godfather"


"racing with hot food"


"98 years"

Last edited by menos : 06-02-2011 at 23:52.
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Old 06-02-2011   #70
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The Noctilux certainly won't get any cheaper.
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Old 06-03-2011   #71
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I actually like the V3 better than the V4 that I had previously.
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Old 06-03-2011   #72
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my vote goes to M9+summilux 50 v2

here you are a sample at f1.4 and nd8 filter (vignetting increased in LR)

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Old 06-03-2011   #73
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In danger of committing heracy. I wouldn't go for the Noctilux anyway. I love my M8. Why not M8 and the Lux and then some nice glass?
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Old 06-04-2011   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Fluff View Post

The Noctilux is very much an acquired taste. The insanely slow, heavy focussing (on the copies I've tried) make it, for me, a non-starter. Many buy one and many end up selling it later. For *some* it's a lens for life, but I doubt for many.

It reminds me of my own coffee machine - the La Pavoni Lever. They look lovely, are kinda quirky to use and are always on ebay. People buy them as they look stunning, and think they will produce easy, great coffee. They don't (in lazy hands) and quickly find their way back to ebay.......
This is interesting …
I love my Noctilux v4 (I guess, I would love a v3 more as of the better user hood and actually plan, to pick a nice beaten v3 up the first occasion, someone offers me one at a good price).

I love the the perfectly silky smooth and easy to focus focus ring.

I love the balance on the Leica digital bodies.
I love it with or without grip, with Motor-M on film or with Leicavit or just plain bottom plate and manual advance.

I love it close up, I love it at medium distances, can't say, that I love it at infinity, as that is rarely my distance to shoot - more the 1.5 − 5m distance.

I love how perfectly straight every shot with my sample seems to fall in focus - even wide open - it is just so quickly and precisely to focus absolute the opposite of the quick and jerky focus of the 50 Lux ASPH (which I also have, but rarely use as of it's mediocre handling, compared to the Noctilux).

I love the Noctilux for it's unreached character (not the slim DOF, vignetting and crazy bokeh, but it's absolutely unreached natural, but very, very sharp fine detail rendering).

I smile about people, complaining and digging on the "soft shots" and endless rangefinder issues, one get's from this overpriced junk lens.
I wish, more people would complain and kick the lens around, so second hand prices and availability would be more friendly for actual users.

Btw … I own a LaPavoni Euro Piccolo since about 5 or 6 years and use it daily.
I love the coffee, I get from this machine. Funny, you mention it in one sentence with the Noctilux ;-)

It is actually cost wise not comparable (the automatic plastic junk machines from any manufacturer are a lot more expensive, but as I wrote: junk).
To get a good Espresso from the Pavoni or even produce nice creamy, tight milk for Cappuccino or Café Latte, one has to have the passion and will, to learn to use it.

You won't press a button and get a good coffee - the Noctilux is pretty similar.
You won't make technically good or meaningful pictures with it on an instant - you have to grow to the lens and really learn, how to use it.

Did I mention, I love mine ?
it is indeed the last photographic gear, I would be willing to part with.
All other stuff is completely unimportant by comparison.

Interestingly, the new 0.95 Noctilux photographs, I saw so far (many, as I am curious about this lens as well, although it is very, very far out of financial reach) leave me absolutely cold.
The 0.95 might be the optically, technically more refined lens, but it somehow looks very different form it's grandpa.

I might change my thinking about it, when shooting one for a while (nobody can make an own opinion by just using one for a few days - you need some weeks I guess).
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Old 06-15-2011   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menos View Post
This is interesting …
I love my Noctilux v4 (I guess, I would love a v3 more as of the better user hood and actually plan, to pick a nice beaten v3 up the first occasion, someone offers me one at a good price).

I love the the perfectly silky smooth and easy to focus focus ring.

I love the balance on the Leica digital bodies.
I love it with or without grip, with Motor-M on film or with Leicavit or just plain bottom plate and manual advance.

I love it close up, I love it at medium distances, can't say, that I love it at infinity, as that is rarely my distance to shoot - more the 1.5 − 5m distance.

I love how perfectly straight every shot with my sample seems to fall in focus - even wide open - it is just so quickly and precisely to focus absolute the opposite of the quick and jerky focus of the 50 Lux ASPH (which I also have, but rarely use as of it's mediocre handling, compared to the Noctilux).

I love the Noctilux for it's unreached character (not the slim DOF, vignetting and crazy bokeh, but it's absolutely unreached natural, but very, very sharp fine detail rendering).

I smile about people, complaining and digging on the "soft shots" and endless rangefinder issues, one get's from this overpriced junk lens.
I wish, more people would complain and kick the lens around, so second hand prices and availability would be more friendly for actual users.

Btw … I own a LaPavoni Euro Piccolo since about 5 or 6 years and use it daily.
I love the coffee, I get from this machine. Funny, you mention it in one sentence with the Noctilux ;-)

It is actually cost wise not comparable (the automatic plastic junk machines from any manufacturer are a lot more expensive, but as I wrote: junk).
To get a good Espresso from the Pavoni or even produce nice creamy, tight milk for Cappuccino or Café Latte, one has to have the passion and will, to learn to use it.

You won't press a button and get a good coffee - the Noctilux is pretty similar.
You won't make technically good or meaningful pictures with it on an instant - you have to grow to the lens and really learn, how to use it.

Did I mention, I love mine ?
it is indeed the last photographic gear, I would be willing to part with.
All other stuff is completely unimportant by comparison.

Interestingly, the new 0.95 Noctilux photographs, I saw so far (many, as I am curious about this lens as well, although it is very, very far out of financial reach) leave me absolutely cold.
The 0.95 might be the optically, technically more refined lens, but it somehow looks very different form it's grandpa.

I might change my thinking about it, when shooting one for a while (nobody can make an own opinion by just using one for a few days - you need some weeks I guess).
I agree with menos. After getting my V3 CLA'd, it's a thing of beauty. The Noct gives you the best of both worlds. A lot is made about its speed as if that was all it's good for but stop it down to f/2 or smaller and it produces the best IQ I've ever seen. And you still have the speed which allows you to shoot in ridiculously low light even with the M8.

My first one was a V4 and I freaked out over the price before I gave it a decent chance. I won't make that mistake with this one. I'll sell a lot, maybe even most other stuff before I let go of it. Those of you who haven't tried it but are on here kicking it should either try it or just admit that the price is the sticking point rather than trying to condemn the lens because you don't want to spend the money on it. Everybody has their preferences and I'm good with that but bad mouthing something you haven't tried is foolish. That's about like condemning sex because it's messy when you haven't actually done it. Once you've tried it, you may just change your mind.
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