xtol query

[Lumpy]

I've just mixed up some xtol and intend using it at 1:1. I have a two reel tank and my question is this: if I develop two rolls of film, can I keep this used developer to develop another two or do I need to dump it out?

[Keith]

Pretty sure Xtol is a single use developer ... so I'd say dump it.

[craygc]

Dump it...!!!

[gliderbee]

I think it's possible: since you can also use it at 1:3, it's not very probable that a 1:1 solution will be exhausted after developing two rolls; maybe you'll have to lengthen the development time a bit, ...

.. BUT ..

why would you risk this ? Developer is cheap, much cheaper then your (probably scarce) free time to take pictures.

Not even considering the possibility that you maybe are not in a position to go out and make the same pictures again ...

Stefan.

[gilpen123]

dump dump dump don't risk your lifetime best....

[Lumpy]

Ok, that's pretty comprehensive. Thanks guys.

[Michiel Fokkema]

Diluted xtol is one shot. Pure xtol can be used more then once with increased devlopment time. Read the instructions.

Cheers,

Michiel Fokkema

[Freakscene]

Originally Posted by gliderbee

I think it's possible: since you can also use it at 1:3, it's not very probable that a 1:1 solution will be exhausted after developing two rolls

It doesn't quite work like that. Xtol uses dimezone-s (a phenidone analogue) and isoascorbate as its developing agents. Ascorbates are effective developers of silver with similar efficacy at developing silver as hydroquinone. Ascorbates also can act as secondary developing agents - these regenerate the primary developing agent (but only above pH 9.5 for dimezone-s according to conventional understanding, and the pH of a working solution of Xtol is under pH 8.5) but ascorbates also act as a preservative like sulfite. Exactly how it works isn't really clear to me, but from experience the ascorbate seems to get exhausted faster than might be expected. Xtol seems to retain very little capacity after use except as stock, and even then to reuse it, you need to extend the time quite a lot or replenish it.

If you use Xtol diluted, use it one-shot.

Marty

[Keith]

Xtol uses dimezone-s (a phenidone analogue) and isoascorbate as its developing agents. Ascorbates are effective developers of silver with similar efficacy at developing silver as hydroquinone. Ascorbates also can act as secondary developing agents - these regenerate the primary developing agent (but only above pH 9.5 for dimezone-s according to conventional understanding, and the pH of a working solution of Xtol is under pH 8.5) but ascorbates also act as a preservative like sulfite.

I tried translating this with 'Babel Fish' ... no luck!

[Freakscene]

Originally Posted by Keith

I tried translating this with 'Babel Fish' ... no luck!

I'm fluent in gibberish. Sorry.

Marty

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by Freakscene

It doesn't quite work like that. Xtol uses dimezone-s (a phenidone analogue) and isoascorbate as its developing agents. Ascorbates are effective developers of silver with similar efficacy at developing silver as hydroquinone. Ascorbates also can act as secondary developing agents - these regenerate the primary developing agent (but only above pH 9.5 for dimezone-s according to conventional understanding, and the pH of a working solution of Xtol is under pH 8.5) but ascorbates also act as a preservative like sulfite. Exactly how it works isn't really clear to me, but from experience the ascorbate seems to get exhausted faster than might be expected. Xtol seems to retain very little capacity after use except as stock, and even then to reuse it, you need to extend the time quite a lot or replenish it.

If you use Xtol diluted, use it one-shot.

Marty

Dear Marty,

Apparently the exact way that Xtol works isn't totally clear even to its inventors, hence the unusual 'minimum volume' requirements. I asked why, once, and the answer pretty much came down to, "It just does, all right?"

Cheers,

R.

[gliderbee]

Originally Posted by Freakscene

It doesn't quite work like that. Xtol uses dimezone-s (a phenidone analogue) and isoascorbate as its developing agents. Ascorbates are effective developers of silver with similar efficacy at developing silver as hydroquinone. Ascorbates also can act as secondary developing agents - these regenerate the primary developing agent (but only above pH 9.5 for dimezone-s according to conventional understanding, and the pH of a working solution of Xtol is under pH 8.5) but ascorbates also act as a preservative like sulfite. Exactly how it works isn't really clear to me, but from experience the ascorbate seems to get exhausted faster than might be expected. Xtol seems to retain very little capacity after use except as stock, and even then to reuse it, you need to extend the time quite a lot or replenish it.

If you use Xtol diluted, use it one-shot.

Marty

Ok, I'm dead in the water now

Does this translates to: "No, doesn't work !" ? I'm sure you're right, but I'm only a poor whatever-but-a-chemist

Stefan.

[Freakscene]

Originally Posted by gliderbee

Ok, I'm dead in the water now

Does this translates to: "No, doesn't work !" ? I'm sure you're right, but I'm only a poor whatever-but-a-chemist

This translates to "if you use dilute Xtol, use it once and then throw it out". Or as Kodak puts it:
"If you use XTOL Developer diluted 1:1, dilute it just before you use it, and discard it after processing one batch of film. Do not reuse or replenish this diluted solution."

Marty

[Freakscene]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

Apparently the exact way that Xtol works isn't totally clear even to its inventors, hence the unusual 'minimum volume' requirements. I asked why, once, and the answer pretty much came down to, "It just does, all right?"

Hi Roger,

Indeed; I've had some amusingly circular dialogue with Kodak about this. I got more sense out of Sylvia Zawadski and Dick Dickerson, who used to work at Kodak, but not enough to be absolutely certain about exactly what's going on when you develop using Xtol. When Sylvia and Dick admitted that they had based some recommendations on data that could not be consistently reproduced, I figured that it was easier to just admit "it works but we don't know why".

Marty