Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Gearhead Delights > Repair / Camera Care

Repair / Camera Care This is a good place to discuss the care and repair of your photo gear. You can share Do-It-Yourself repair and maintenance, as well as your recommendations for pro repairs. This new forum was created 4/1/07. PLEASE title your thread wisely, so others searching for a certain make of camera or repair person can find your thread easily!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Old 02-14-2017   #41
Joao
Negativistic forever
 
Joao's Avatar
 
Joao is offline
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 38.40.807N 9.09.499' W
Posts: 757
You can try one of these (some were mentioned above)

http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock/astronomy/light-pollution/shutter-cal.pdf

But I really like the Popular Mechanics (feb 1942, pg 131). Some aditional interesting sugestions after the shutter testing article

https://books.google.pt/books?id=stYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA131&lpg=PA131&dq=shutte r+speed+turntable&source=bl&ots=9pylZW6A1h&sig=B_S fK-WhAqbb-irP4-USkHr_HFQ&hl=pt-PT&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj597iaoY_SAhVDdCwKHcwsAEUQ6AEIK jAF#v=onepage&q=shutter%20speed%20turntable&f=fals e

Regards
Joao
__________________
Have no fear of perfection, you'll never reach it.
Salvador Dali
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-14-2017   #43
MIkhail
Registered User
 
MIkhail's Avatar
 
MIkhail is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Jennings View Post
To test for consistency in the shutter opening in Leica-type shutters, I have been using my iPhone lately. Use the slo-mo setting in the camera app and look at the gap from opening to closing during playback. For bottom loaders, slip a piece of white paper behind the shutter curtains.
Does the speed of phone camera actually allow for that? I never though it would..
I should try this.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-14-2017   #44
dmr
Registered Abuser
 
dmr's Avatar
 
dmr is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Somewhere in Middle America
Posts: 3,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Jennings View Post
To test for consistency in the shutter opening in Leica-type shutters, I have been using my iPhone lately. Use the slo-mo setting in the camera app and look at the gap from opening to closing during playback. For bottom loaders, slip a piece of white paper behind the shutter curtains.
I'm surprised that nobody has made a phone-app for doing just this.
__________________
My (NEW) Gallery
My Blog
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-14-2017   #45
MIkhail
Registered User
 
MIkhail's Avatar
 
MIkhail is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmr View Post
I'm surprised that nobody has made a phone-app for doing just this.

I just tried - with my Iphone 5s
The camera even in slow motion is not providing the resolution high enough to distinguish the difference. You can roll to the beginning and then to the end of exposure and it's always around 1 sec :-)
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-14-2017   #46
dmr
Registered Abuser
 
dmr's Avatar
 
dmr is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Somewhere in Middle America
Posts: 3,805
So? How about something like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cam-Lite-Shu...-/222404534542

Anybody ever used one of these?
__________________
My (NEW) Gallery
My Blog
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-14-2017   #47
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
 
sevo is offline
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 6,243
You would be looking into seriously professional gear for video cameras with frame rates that can capture a shutter - for 1/1000s I'd recommend a frame rate upward of 4000 fps. The cheapest with these specs (the Weisscam) rents out for 1000€ a day.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-14-2017   #48
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
 
sevo is offline
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 6,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmr View Post
So? How about something like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cam-Lite-Shu...-/222404534542

Anybody ever used one of these?
That will do, for a coarse guess in one shot, or for pretty accurate measurements if you do multiple passes with the probe in different positions (and know how to interpret the results). Bear in mind that the last adjustable time in a FP shutter usually is the X sync time - all shorter times are merely derived by narrowing the slit width. If a camera has a short time only issue, a shutter timer is of little help, as the camera needs cleaning rather than adjustment...
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-14-2017   #49
MIkhail
Registered User
 
MIkhail's Avatar
 
MIkhail is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
You would be looking into seriously professional gear for video cameras with frame rates that can capture a shutter - for 1/1000s I'd recommend a frame rate upward of 4000 fps. The cheapest with these specs (the Weisscam) rents out for 1000 a day.
I think I can manage in two days. :-)
:-)
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-14-2017   #50
Ronald M
Registered User
 
Ronald M is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,031
CALUMET shutter speed checker. They were around $50. A timer reacts to light off,on, off.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-14-2017   #51
_lou_
Registered User
 
_lou_'s Avatar
 
_lou_ is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 109
I had the same question and as an engineer too I tried building my own tester using an arduino and a light sensor. That went pretty well but the switching time if the light sensor prevented mesuring anything faster than 1/125 accurately enough. I was pleased to see that the Pentax MX is pretty solid. Anyway if you give or take 20% on exposure, it won't ruin your pictures, especially when shooting negatives.



I had also recording the shutter sounds on large format lenses, and that worked pretty well also for the slower speeds.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-14-2017   #52
Peter Jennings
Registered User
 
Peter Jennings's Avatar
 
Peter Jennings is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seoul
Posts: 211
iPhone 6 in slo-mo can capture 1/1000 barely enough to see the opening and closing gaps. It is not in any way perfect, but it can show inconsistencies well enough. Pause the video during playback and use the slider controls to advance frame by frame. Of course, you still can only guess what the actual speeds are.

edit: Of course, the curtains are moving at the same speed all the time, so 1/30 or 1/1000, it makes no difference. You're just looking to make sure the gap is a consistent size from one end of the frame to the other.
__________________
Peter
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-14-2017   #53
Steve M.
Registered User
 
Steve M. is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,401
The short answer to your question is that if you want to know for sure what the shutter speeds are on your camera you will have to buy an inexpensive shutter tester that runs on Audacity.... or build one.... or shoot a test roll of film and see how the shots come out. There are lots of schematics on the internet for these testers, and as an engineer you would probably enjoy building one. They're very accurate, but limited to 1/1000. I've been using one for nearly 15 years.

Generally, if you read in an ad that "all the shutter speeds sound good", this is a good sign. It means that the seller is knowledgeable enough to know roughly what the speeds should sound like, and that none of them are sticking. If on the other hand you read "all the little knobs and levers seem to work", you are taking a chance buying that camera. Usually those sellers are pushing shirts w/ little alligators on them, golf clubs, or doll dresses when they're not selling cameras.

A shutter that is one stop off is usually considered within tolerances, even after a CLA. If you have a Barnack type camera, you will have to remove the body around the shutter to test the speeds. It's much simpler to just shoot a test roll. A shutter speed tester will not tell you if the shutter is capping (you will have to take the lens off and hold the camera up to a light and fire it to see that, and good luck w/ a Barnack), nor will it tell you if the shutter has pin holes in it.

While it's true that you will seldom if ever see a SLR that has a shutter that runs fast, you will sometimes see leaf shutters that do this on their slowest speeds, and it's not a good sign. If you're lucky, it just means that the lens needs to be unscrewed and the shutter blades cleaned w/ lighter fluid and a Q-tip (lots of Q-tips), but it could also mean that something is gummed up or broken in the slow speed escapement. In my experience w/ Rolleicords and Rolleiflex cameras, it means something is broken when the camera fires at the same speed on every speed, in which case you are better off selling it w/ an accurate description and buying another camera. A shutter CLA on these cameras is usually far more money than the camera is worth because the shutter is so hard to get to.

Like Roger, I once had a Leicaflex that had a slow shutter and it took perfectly exposed shots. Those negs were beautiful to look at on a light box. The odd thing is that the speeds were not slow in a linear manner. One may have been one stop slow, another may have been right on the money, and the next may have been 1 1/2 stops off. It didn't matter, it took perfectly exposed shots every time. Go figure.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-14-2017   #54
barnwulf
Registered User
 
barnwulf's Avatar
 
barnwulf is offline
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ankeny, Iowa
Age: 78
Posts: 1,382
It sounds like we are more interested in testing cameras or lenses than we are about taking good photos. It all seems like a waste of time to me if the camera is turning out photos that are properly exposed. I don't care at all if a shutter speed is a little off, I can adjust for that but more importantly as long as my exposures are consistant I am fine. - jim
__________________
"Basically, I no longer work for anything but the sensation I have while working."
- Alberto Giacometti (sculptor)
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-14-2017   #55
goamules
Registered User
 
goamules is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmr View Post
I'm surprised that nobody has made a phone-app for doing just this.
They have, mentioned above. It works by timing the sound. And doesn't need the hardware, that't optional. For $2.99 I may try it for large format shutters. But for focal plan shutters (many rangefinders), it won't work because those shutters work on different slits in curtains, not an opening and closing device.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/shut...l=de&ls=1&mt=8
__________________
Garrett

My Flickr Photos
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-14-2017   #56
brbo
Registered User
 
brbo's Avatar
 
brbo is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by goamules View Post
They have, mentioned above. It works by timing the sound. And doesn't need the hardware, that't optional. For $2.99 I may try it for large format shutters. But for focal plan shutters (many rangefinders), it won't work because those shutters work on different slits in curtains, not an opening and closing device.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/shut...l=de&ls=1&mt=8
Save the money. I have it (also the hardware plug) and it's not that useful even for leaf shutters. You will get false indication of deviations at faster times even though in reality, on film (slide), everything is OK.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 02-15-2017   #57
Bill Clark
Registered User
 
Bill Clark's Avatar
 
Bill Clark is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minnetonka, Minnesota
Age: 68
Posts: 1,847
The analog photography system has a fair amount of latitude designed in it. The least amount is when using transparency film.

There are many variables when using film stuff. Shutter speed is just one of them.

Since you live in Michigan how does temperature affect equipment? From warming up your car to heating your home, to the lubricants used in cameras, to water temp. used during the process stage of film photography.

Whew! I could drive myself right to the funny farm justing thinking about this. But there are, to me at least, more important ingredients wih my photography. Such as lighting, posing, rapport and composition.

I need to get a bigger waste basket for my darkroom!

Digital has its own set of variables so you can't escape it just live with it and use it to your advantage.

Yours was a good question and a valid one as well. Many have thought the same as you though. I've accepted all these variables and use them to tell a story of how I view the world. It's my brand.
__________________
I use my real name. How about you?
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-15-2017   #58
MIkhail
Registered User
 
MIkhail's Avatar
 
MIkhail is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Clark View Post
Since you live in Michigan how does temperature affect equipment? From warming up your car to heating your home, to the lubricants used in cameras, to water temp. used during the process stage of film photography.
Actually, this year it was pretty mild, but regardless, I have one camera in the car (sometimes Leica M6, sometimes Olympus XA) but usually don't leave my digital there (it's with me in the jacket pocket) and never had issues with either of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Clark View Post
Yours was a good question and a valid one as well. Many have thought the same as you though. I've accepted all these variables and use them to tell a story of how I view the world. It's my brand.
That's all understandable. Negative film has a huge latitude. And more so, once I know the amount of variations, I don't run to repair shop - I just assume the amount and compensate for it.
But what prompted a question was: is it because it seems such a common phrases that everyone selling camera puts in, so that nobody questions the logic of it?

Anyhow, thanks everybody for the answers, a lot of good info. Ordered one of these devices on eBay already.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-16-2017   #59
MDenton
Registered User
 
MDenton is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 41
Anybody tried these ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_fr...ester&_sacat=0
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-16-2017   #60
Roger Hicks
Registered User
 
Roger Hicks is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Aquitaine
Posts: 23,095
There's a certain amount about living with a sticky shutter in this piece about a Zeiss Ikonta 523/16.

Cheers,

R.
__________________
Go to www.rogerandfrances.eu for a whole new website
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-16-2017   #61
hanskerensky
Registered User
 
hanskerensky's Avatar
 
hanskerensky is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Limburg, The Netherlands
Posts: 671
For serious work, also for the travelspeed of focal plane curtains, I use this Arrowin :


Kyoritsu Arrowin EF8000 Tester (01) by Hans Kerensky, on Flickr

For in between service/repair measurement I use this set-up with a Picoscope unit connected to my PC :

Light Sensor Experiments (06) by Hans Kerensky, on Flickr

PicoScope 693 1-300 (01) by Hans Kerensky, on Flickr
__________________
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Visit my Flickr Collections!
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2017   #62
rick oleson
Ancient Wizard
 
rick oleson's Avatar
 
rick oleson is offline
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lexington, KY USA
Age: 63
Posts: 357
wow, popular topic! You certainly don't need one more response on top of all this, but here it is anyway: do you happen to still have an old CRT television or monitor around the house? If you do, that will provide a very good shutter speed test from about 1/60 second and faster:
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-208.html
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-20-2017   #63
MIkhail
Registered User
 
MIkhail's Avatar
 
MIkhail is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by rick oleson View Post
wow, popular topic! You certainly don't need one more response on top of all this, but here it is anyway: do you happen to still have an old CRT television or monitor around the house? If you do, that will provide a very good shutter speed test from about 1/60 second and faster:
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-208.html
Thank you. People already suggested that ;-)
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-20-2017   #64
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
 
sevo is offline
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 6,243
And don't fret over it. You do not have to tune 1/125 to the last digit (or even the second from last). Shutter speeds accurate to 1/3 stop are perfectly adequate, so that 1/125 may be 1/100 or 1/160 without any visible impact. That is equivalent to a wall clock losing or gaining about five hours a day - shutters are timers, not watches!
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-20-2017   #65
jonmanjiro
Moderator
 
jonmanjiro's Avatar
 
jonmanjiro is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Yokohama
Posts: 4,739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Jennings View Post
To test for consistency in the shutter opening in Leica-type shutters, I have been using my iPhone lately. Use the slo-mo setting in the camera app and look at the gap from opening to closing during playback. For bottom loaders, slip a piece of white paper behind the shutter curtains.
Thanks for the idea! This works really well.
__________________
flickr
Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-21-2017   #66
David Hughes
Registered User
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,739
Hi,

This thread worries me; as every DIY suggestion is helping to put the camera testers and repairers out of business. And that's not a good thing. Also, why buy expensive kit just to do something once?

Best answer is to take it to a technician and ask him/her to check the shutter speeds, once you have proof that they are beginning to fail. If you've no evidence of failure than don't bother and enjoy using the camera to take pictures...

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-21-2017   #67
Peter Jennings
Registered User
 
Peter Jennings's Avatar
 
Peter Jennings is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seoul
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
Thanks for the idea! This works really well.
You're welcome. Just something I tried one day out of necessity. Sometimes I surprise myself!
__________________
Peter
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-21-2017   #68
MIkhail
Registered User
 
MIkhail's Avatar
 
MIkhail is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 862
Ok, so I bought this one and tried it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Camera-shutt...0AAOSwNgxWEWrJ
It works like a charm. I was happy to find out that my main two cameras are "right no the money". One thing this does not do - you cannot check camera with permanent back, like Leica IIIF or something. Because in order to work you have to get behind the shutter with this sensor. Other than that- 15 bucks well spent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
Hi,
This thread worries me; as every DIY suggestion is helping to put the camera testers and repairers out of business. And that's not a good thing. Also, why buy expensive kit just to do something once?
Regards, David
Nothing to worry about. I would not even be concerned if my camera was off, as long as I know how much it is off and how consistently off it is.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-21-2017   #69
dmr
Registered Abuser
 
dmr's Avatar
 
dmr is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Somewhere in Middle America
Posts: 3,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
This thread worries me; as every DIY suggestion is helping to put the camera testers and repairers out of business.
Sore subject right now!

If the repair services were a bit more reasonable in price I would be more sympathetic to the, but today I learned that it will probably cost close to $200 for a good CLA on a zoom lens when I can get a replacement one on the auction site we love to hate for less than half of that!

If it were not for my ability to DIY amd to learn how to do it (with the help of others such as the users here) I would not be shooting nearly as much!

In fact, I've been thinking of getting one of those shutter testers, not the PC plug-in but the actual appliance, because one use would pay for it, compared to having a shop do it!

Yeah I know, b*tch b*tch b*tch!
__________________
My (NEW) Gallery
My Blog
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-22-2017   #70
David Hughes
Registered User
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,739
Hi,

I can cope with that but it's the cost of a repair etc.

My experience is that they can usually tell you what's right or wrong with a camera or lens for free and then quote for repairs or else they make a nominal charge for the quote. (Much cheaper than running a film through it etc.) One exception is Leica who have different ideas of nominal to me, well, they did the last time...

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-24-2017   #71
rick oleson
Ancient Wizard
 
rick oleson's Avatar
 
rick oleson is offline
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lexington, KY USA
Age: 63
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
Hi,

This thread worries me; as every DIY suggestion is helping to put the camera testers and repairers out of business. And that's not a good thing. Also, why buy expensive kit just to do something once?

Best answer is to take it to a technician and ask him/her to check the shutter speeds, once you have proof that they are beginning to fail. If you've no evidence of failure than don't bother and enjoy using the camera to take pictures...

Regards, David
Isn't helping fellow DIY repairers the purpose of this forum?
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 20:34.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.