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Which wide angle lenses work very well with the M9?
Old 01-12-2017   #1
raid
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Which wide angle lenses work very well with the M9?

I want to buy a wide angle lens for my M9.

I used in past years two 21mm lenses and one 19mm lens in some other mounts with adapters on my M3 or M6, but after getting the M9, I did not bother buying a very good wide angle lens that works well with the M9. I could use a Canon FD 17/4. It is bulky and heavy and some people have expressed views that it lacks sharpness on the M9.

I once bought a CV 21/4 lens in Nikon mount to be used with film cameras since it does not fit the M9 even with an adapter. The only wide angle lens that seems to work with the M9 is my CV 25/4 ltm.

Is there a good 21mm lens that works well with the M9?
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Old 01-12-2017   #2
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I'm not a wide angle guy. I have a 2.8/25 Biogon and the IQ on the M9 (and MM) is great.
I'd guess the 1.4/21SX will also work well but I don't have this beauty
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Old 01-12-2017   #3
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I'm really tempted to buy a used Ultron 21/1.8
it works well with sensors as far as I've seen. No color shifts etc.
I use the CV25 too but mostly convert to b/w since I found that corner fix only works so so
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Old 01-12-2017   #4
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Both my 21mm and 24mm Elmarit ASPH lenses work well on my M9. The 15mm CV is said to have color shift problems at the edges and corners, but I have not (so far) encountered a problem with it. I need to use it in more situations, to get a better idea.

Edit: I manually enter the CV 15 as the 16mm WATE.
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Old 01-12-2017   #5
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My Ver. 3 CV 15 works very well with the M9, the older Cv 21/4 has a bit of vignetting but otherwise seems to be fine. Those two are as wide as I have. I have a 28 Elmarit that lives on the M9 these days.
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Old 01-12-2017   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
I want to buy a wide angle lens for my M9.

I used in past years two 21mm lenses and one 19mm lens in some other mounts with adapters on my M3 or M6, but after getting the M9, I did not bother buying a very good wide angle lens that works well with the M9. I could use a Canon FD 17/4. It is bulky and heavy and some people have expressed views that it lacks sharpness on the M9.

I once bought a CV 21/4 lens in Nikon mount to be used with film cameras since it does not fit the M9 even with an adapter. The only wide angle lens that seems to work with the M9 is my CV 25/4 ltm.

Is there a good 21mm lens that works well with the M9?
The best ultra-wide performer is probably the Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21mm f/4 ASPH (WATE for short). Both because of its retrofocus design and because Leica provides an excellent lens profile for it.

The Summilux-M 21mm f/1.4 ASPH is also reputed to be an excellent performer on the M9.

The CV21/4 produces significant color shifting on the M9 sensor and can only be fully corrected using CornerFix in post processing.

G
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Old 01-12-2017   #7
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Almost any of the newer Leica lenses will work great. The Zeiss 21 and Voigtlander 21 will have serious color shift and corner sharpness issues. It all comes down to your price range. I'm a big fan of the new 21/3.4 Super Elmar from Leica. That's a really nice lens.
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Old 01-12-2017   #8
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I am happy with the Zeiss Distagon 4/18 and with the III CV Super-Wide Heliar 4.5/15. No issues when using them with the M9. Also very good results with the Zeiss Biogon 2.8/28 and the 2/35. After many years of usage, the 2.8/28 developed the ''wobble'' but Tom A. explained how I could try to fix it at home -it worked...I did not even need a screw driver.
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Old 01-12-2017   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
Is there a good 21mm lens that works well with the M9?
Well, sure there are. Is that really the question here, or should the word "economical" have been added to the question?

The Leica 21's are all excellent, be it Elmarit, Super Elmar or Summilux. Pick your price-point.

The first 21 I used with my M9 was the 21mm f4 Cosina Voigtlander, which exhibited some edge color problems so I picked up the CV 21mm f1.8, a beautiful lens and the edge color issues are not nearly so bad, especially using the non-ASPH Elmarit profile.

Today, I have the 21mm f2.8 Elmarit ASPH. The Cosina lenses have not seen the light of day since I used the Elmarit the first time.
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Old 01-12-2017   #10
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21 SEM is absolutely stunning on the M9/240. No silly color shifts, perfectly sharp edge to edge, no stupid purple fringing you find on the 21/24 Lux's, size is perfect, easy to focus, hood is nicely shaped (same one used on 35 FLE). Additionally, having the common 46mm filter is great... Series filters are a joke.
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Old 01-12-2017   #11
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I had a look at four 21mm M lenses on the M9 a few years back: my review.

I did not try the CV21/4... I suspect it might have some edge color shift, but I've also read comments from others having copy to copy variation problems with it.

Of the four I owned at the time of the review (21 Lux, CV21/1.8, ZM21/2.8 and 21 SEM), the 21/1.8 is IMO the best value for price/performance, though it is somewhat large and the permanently attached lens hood annoyed me. But, it's nearly as fast as the Lux with better across-frame sharpness consistency, while being about as sharp as the slower 21s once stopped down.

If you don't need the speed and don't mind the cost, I highly recommend the 21 SEM.
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Old 01-12-2017   #12
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I use the Super Elmar 18mm Asph. Works perfect.
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Old 01-12-2017   #13
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The Voigtlander 21mm does have some shift on the edges but it's not terrible.

Since you already have one in S-mount, my recommendation is you find a machinist to simply mill down the rear retaining ring a touch and it will clear the rangefinder arm in the M9. Will cost you very little if you already have an Amedeo adapter. If you don't, you should as it gives you a ton of fun options with cheap Nikon and/or Contax lenses depending.

I filed mine down by hand which took forever, but it works.

I haven't tried using any of the lens profiles with the 21mm but I imagine most of the color shift could be corrected with the Leica 21mm f/2.8 profile. I recently started using that with a 15mm Voigtlander (ver. 1) and it really helped.
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Old 01-12-2017   #14
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No, I did on purpose not mention the cost as I want first to know what the situation is. If I am told that only Leica 21mm lenses work well, and if this wil cost me (for a used lens) over $2000, then I know what to budget for (or not).

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregm61 View Post
Well, sure there are. Is that really the question here, or should the word "economical" have been added to the question?

The Leica 21's are all excellent, be it Elmarit, Super Elmar or Summilux. Pick your price-point.

The first 21 I used with my M9 was the 21mm f4 Cosina Voigtlander, which exhibited some edge color problems so I picked up the CV 21mm f1.8, a beautiful lens and the edge color issues are not nearly so bad, especially using the non-ASPH Elmarit profile.

Today, I have the 21mm f2.8 Elmarit ASPH. The Cosina lenses have not seen the light of day since I used the Elmarit the first time.
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Old 01-12-2017   #15
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I am very happy with the results of the CV 21/1.8, hand-coded as the Lux 21/1.4. It's sharp wide open, good color and contrast. Haven't noticed color shifts in the corners. I also have a 21/2.8 Elmarit Asph and the CV 21/4, but I prefer the versatility that the f/1.8 aperture provides. It's reasonably priced compared to the Lux 21, yet ~2 stops faster than the 21 SEM.

Regardless, the CV 21/1.8; 21/2.8 Elmarit Asph; 21 SEM; 21 Lux; Zeiss 21/2.8; they are all so good it would be hard to wrong with any of these lenses--it's a matter of price/speed/size.
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Old 01-12-2017   #16
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The late Tom Abrahamsson called the 21 SA the "drama queen". I totally agree with him, but as other have pointed out, there is the annoying banding and the meter which needs to be adjusted +2.5 to +3 stops to use the built in lightmeter on the digital M cameras. even then, this adjustment is not foolproof. In the end, I got tired of the adjustments, and bought the 21 SEM for my M9 and MM after selling the 21 SA.
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Old 01-12-2017   #17
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canon 25mm F3.5 works very good on M9.
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Old 01-12-2017   #18
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Robin: is the lens sharp but low contrast?
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Old 01-12-2017   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
Robin: is the lens sharp but low contrast?
Hi, Raid,

the lens is sharp enough to my eyes and contrast is not high and not that vivid in color. you can't use filter on that lens, filter will add slight dark corner on the pictures, but not a big deal to me.

I start a thread in a Chinese forum. U should be able to view the pictures without registration.
http://forum.xitek.com/thread-1353003-1-1-1.html
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Old 01-12-2017   #20
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The Zeiss 21mm 4.5 ZM lives on my M9. Compact and super sharp, I love this lens!
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Old 01-12-2017   #21
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Originally Posted by jkcampbell View Post
The Zeiss 21mm 4.5 ZM lives on my M9. Compact and super sharp, I love this lens!
I tried this lens on the M9 back in 2010. It was very sharp, but the vignetting and edge colour shift was quite severe... particularly the colour shift. But that was prior to some of the later firmware updates. How's it working for you?
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Old 01-13-2017   #22
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I tried this lens on the M9 back in 2010. It was very sharp, but the vignetting and edge colour shift was quite severe... particularly the colour shift. But that was prior to some of the later firmware updates. How's it working for you?
I use it almost exclusively for B&W so I've never taken a close look at edge color. I do agree on the vignetting, but it's not much different than my 21mm Elmarit. For me I like the effect but if you don't it's easy to take care of it in post. Here's a quick snap of the dog taken a few minutes ago.

ISO 800 1/45s f5.6
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Old 01-13-2017   #23
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It seems that wide angle lenses have more challenges with color than with B&W on digital cameras.
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Old 01-13-2017   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
It seems that wide angle lenses have more challenges with color than with B&W on digital cameras.
For sure. B&W eliminates seeing the color shifting and chromatic aberrations that non-orthogonal incident light can create. It's still there, it's just not easy to see.

G
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Old 01-13-2017   #25
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So when asking for excellent wide angle lenses for the M9, it should be stated that I am looking for a wide angle lens to be used with color images.
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Old 01-13-2017   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
So when asking for excellent wide angle lenses for the M9, it should be stated that I am looking for a wide angle lens to be used with color images.
Easy....the 21mm Elmarit ASPH, on the M9..





and M262..



Or, better, the even wider 18mm f3.8 Super Elmar, which works really well with the M9. I don't have any M9 images online to add here right now. These were captured with the M262.

https://gmchappell.smugmug.com/Other...8-Super-Elmar/





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Old 01-14-2017   #27
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Quote:
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It seems that wide angle lenses have more challenges with color than with B&W on digital cameras.
Fixed this for you.

"It seems that wide angle lenses have more challenges with color than with B&W on" [Leica M] "digital cameras". To be complete to some degree this is the case for all digital cameras with short lens-mount registers.

As mentioned and displayed above some Leica lenses (18 and 21 SEMs for instance) seem to be designed to optimize edge-to-edge sharpness. Since Leica knows their sensor assemblies' micro-lens optical properties, wide-angle lenses can be designed to specifically match the micro-lens array properties. And Leica uses excellent image rendering parameters to correct remaining issues (vignetting and color shifts) for in-camera JPEGs and, or post-production raw rendering.

Harmonizing lens and sensor assembly micro-lens optical designs and effective lens correction parameters supplied by the camera/lens designers are common throughout the industry. As usual, Leica's designers achieve excellent results.

As far as other M/LTM lenses go, as always edge-to-edge sharpness will vary. But user created rendering lens correction parameters for vignetting and color shifts are conveniently applied once they are created. In fact Adobe provides free software and detailed technical instructions on how to create custom lens correction profiles for ACR (LR and PS). The process is tedious but it works. Other platforms offer similar tools. And I understand one can purchase plug-ins that are very effective at implementing post-production corrections for M/LTM wide-angle lenses.
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Old 01-14-2017   #28
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When I decided - after 10 years - finally to try something wider than 28 again, on the 240, after some mixed experience with the "Italian Flag", cornerfix, etc., I decided to pick a Leica lens for which a code exists. I just don't want to limit myself to B+W only when I shoot - I prefer to make that call when editing.

I found a late, near mint Elmarit 21/2.8 pre-asph for US 800, which is rarely mentioned in threads like this, I'm guessing because Puts once remarked that the new asph Elmarit and Elmar are so much better.

I'm very happy with this Mandler lens, Raid. Even on the 240, it out-resolves the sensor f5.6 and up, distortions are not visible in real life, and it does have the typical Mandler contrast/shadow behavior. I feels a little large at first, but since the hood can be reversed, it's very portable. For my photos with this lens, see http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...d.php?t=152649. My most recent favorite is this:



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Old 01-14-2017   #29
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on my M8/M9 the pre asph Leica 21/2.8 worked well and can be properly coded. If I remember correctly, the Biogon 21/2.8 works very well, too, but needs some initiative to have it coded.
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Old 01-14-2017   #30
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I have started to first try (again) lenses that I own. I placed today a Minolta Rokkor 28/2.8 on the M9.

Roland: Thanks for the tip to consider the Elmarit 21/2.8 pre-asph.. Such a lens sounds very suitable to me. I will start searching for one.
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Old 01-14-2017   #31
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24 3.8 elmar if that is fast enough. Mine is virtually perfect wide open. Mine came used from KEH on sale for $1200-long story. Then the new 24 BL finder advertised as plastic was metal when it arrived.

All that CV stuff is trash. I use mine for paper weights.
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Old 01-14-2017   #32
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One more note, Raid: after exercising the Elmarit in Utah, I decided to change from ZI finder to classic SBKOO. LV is not usable in high contrast daylight (snow, etc), so I feel the finder is very important. The Leitz finder is a little dimmer (single-coated) than the ZI finder but much more accurate (> 10%). Did some new camera p*rn with the new finder this morning:





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Old 01-14-2017   #33
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The Leica finder is smaller, too, and looks better
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Old 01-14-2017   #34
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Quote:
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One more note, Raid: after exercising the Elmarit in Utah, I decided to change from ZI finder to classic SBKOO. LV is not usable in high contrast daylight (snow, etc), so I feel the finder is very important. The Leitz finder is a little dimmer (single-coated) than the ZI finder but much more accurate (> 10%). Did some new camera p*rn with the new finder this morning:





Roland.
I much prefer the 12002 to the CZ 21mm finder. Mostly for the much better eye relief.
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Old 01-14-2017   #35
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Hi Roland,
I searched today for an Elmarit pre-asph, but any 21mm Elmarit ranged in price for $1400-$3000 (for asph at the high end) or higher.

The finder is very important. I agree.

I wonder how the Elmarit compares with the Kobalux 21/3.5?

Raid

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One more note, Raid: after exercising the Elmarit in Utah, I decided to change from ZI finder to classic SBKOO. LV is not usable in high contrast daylight (snow, etc), so I feel the finder is very important. The Leitz finder is a little dimmer (single-coated) than the ZI finder but much more accurate (> 10%). Did some new camera p*rn with the new finder this morning:





Roland.
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Old 01-14-2017   #36
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Hi Roland,
I wonder how the Elmarit compares with the Kobalux 21/3.5?
Raid
The Kobalux 21mm is an f/2.8 lens, not f/3.5. The most significant downside of the Kobalux is its 58mm filter size. Also, the Kobalux 21mm viewfinder is enormous. Belongs on a medium format camera.

The head bartender has a page on the Kobalux 21mm here. However, no indication as to how it performs on a digital body.
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Old 01-14-2017   #37
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Hi Roland,
I searched today for an Elmarit pre-asph, but any 21mm Elmarit ranged in price for $1400-$3000 (for asph at the high end) or higher.

Raid
That's about right, if the idea really is to own a 21mm that performs on an M9.
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Old 01-15-2017   #38
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I may have been thinking of the max aperture in the Kobalux28/3.5, but you are correct that the 21mm lens has aperture 2.8. The viewfinder can always be replaced by a smaller one.


Quote:
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The Kobalux 21mm is an f/2.8 lens, not f/3.5. The most significant downside of the Kobalux is its 58mm filter size. Also, the Kobalux 21mm viewfinder is enormous. Belongs on a medium format camera.

The head bartender has a page on the Kobalux 21mm here. However, no indication as to how it performs on a digital body.
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Old 01-15-2017   #39
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That's about right, if the idea really is to own a 21mm that performs on an M9.
I am not yet convinced that Leica makes the only 21mm lenses that work well on the M9. Not yet.
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Old 01-15-2017   #40
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Love the 21 4.5 Zeiss. I do get some purple corners but often it doesn't matter. Mostly I use it for black and white.
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