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View Poll Results: Sell it all?
Sell everything and replace with MP a la carte. 49 39.20%
Don't do it! 27 21.60%
Just sell some and keep the most used gear. 35 28.00%
Sell it all and repaint my M2. 14 11.20%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-19-2016   #81
twhittle
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Originally Posted by DanskDynamit View Post
Keep the Mamiya, sell the rest, go on a world tour, enjoy.
Now that is an idea. . .
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Old 12-19-2016   #82
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Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
This evening, for dinner, I had the choice of fillet of pork, or duck breast (magret de canard).

Which should I have had?

Not "Which would you prefer?" but "Which should I have preferred?"

Cheers,

R.
I'm vegetarian, so I suppose that adds at least one filter.

Rodger, as someone who has made it their career learning about cameras and film techniques, do you think you could do one camera/ one format and one lens?
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Old 12-19-2016   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
This evening, for dinner, I had the choice of fillet of pork, or duck breast (magret de canard).

Which should I have had?

Not "Which would you prefer?" but "Which should I have preferred?"

Cheers,

R.
In the typical style of camera/photography forums (or is that fora?) you should have had a third option that you said you don't like and/or can't afford, but that's what I like so you should too.
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Old 12-19-2016   #84
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Don't do it...unless you fancy selling that Mamiya 7ii to me for peanuts ;-)
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Old 12-19-2016   #85
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post

I have no idea, why some are so attached to MF. Same as OP, I do 8x10 and Leica gives it nice and easy with very special character of the Leica lens, which most of MF gear has not. Most boring in the character of lens rendering prints I ever seen are from those Japanese MF cameras. They are sharp and ... nothing else. Yes, I also printed from IIb cord (flex) lens and it is also nowhere near to Leica rendering.

Sell it all! Support Leica!
I have to disagree with this. My Pentax 67 105mm and 165mm lenses are amazing. They're sharp, render beautifully and the OOF areas are as super-smooth as whipped cream making them fantastic for portraits. I'd take the Pepsi challenge with those two against anything Leica has ever produced, regardless of price. The Pentax lenses cost me 200 for both, and the 165mm was boxed and unused.

If you want to talk sharpness and detail for landscapes, there's the Planar on my Rolleiflex 3.5F. I'd love to see the Leica 35mm equipment that can touch that. The 3.5 is easy to carry all day, almost as well built as my M3 and cost 430.

MF equipment prices these days mean it's a complete no-brainer.
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Old 12-19-2016   #86
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Originally Posted by johnwolf View Post
It always amazes me that people will give purchase advice to someone they don't know and knowing little or nothing about the type of photography they do or what their creative intentions are. Take a long walk and contemplate your choices. Or make a list of pros and cons. Then follow your instincts and do what YOU think is best. No offense to your or anyone else here, but this is an important personal decision, and the only one who truly cares what you do is you.

John
In fairness to the OP, there will be lots of people replying to this who have also contemplated the same thing and can offer their thoughts and conclusions. Other people will raise points and questions that they may have not considered. It's contemplation in written form!
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Old 12-19-2016   #87
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Originally Posted by DanskDynamit View Post
Keep the Mamiya, sell the rest, go on a world tour, enjoy.
This plan will almost certainly:

1. Produce the highest number of quality photos

2. Generate the most happiness

3. Be the cure for the OP's GAS

4. Almost certainly be ignored!

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Old 12-19-2016   #88
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I don't get the logic at all but if you want a black paint Leica, get the Millennium instead. And if you need to sell, do keep one medium format camera unless you're really short of cash.
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Old 12-19-2016   #89
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The M2, like the M4, has a 0.72 viewfinder. However, it only has 35/50/90 framelines, with only one set of framelines visible at a time, for a uncluttered look.
F,

I forgot that the 35 frame also has the 135.

The larger frames of the M2 and M4 I like a lot more than the later metered camera frames.

Cal
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Old 12-19-2016   #90
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Or you might have preferred -- Honey-roasted breast of duck with smoked belly of pork, caramelised endive and ceps?
http://www.greatbritishchefs.com/rec...st-ceps-endive
Nah... Too sweet. Besides, I don't have any smoked belly pork: only smoked pork loin (yes, as well as the unsmoked).

Cheers,

R.
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Old 12-19-2016   #91
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Originally Posted by twhittle View Post
I'm vegetarian, so I suppose that adds at least one filter.

Rodger, as someone who has made it their career learning about cameras and film techniques, do you think you could do one camera/ one format and one lens?
Para 1: Green, presumably.

Para 2: Possibly, but why would I?

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R.
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Old 12-19-2016   #92
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Originally Posted by michaelwj View Post
In the typical style of camera/photography forums (or is that fora?) you should have had a third option that you said you don't like and/or can't afford, but that's what I like so you should too.
Dear Michael,

Of course! How could I have been so remiss? Kidneys, obviously. On a bed of pasta. Served with grapefruit juice.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 12-19-2016   #93
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Originally Posted by philipus View Post
. . . if you want a black paint Leica, get the Millennium instead. . . .
Why? I'd like another BMW R90S motorcycle to replace the one I sold when I left California in '92. But I'd like it in Bol d'Or orange.

By your logic, I should buy a white R80 and fit a bikini fairing. IT'S NOT THE SAME. Besides which, the Millennium is a bloody M6ttl with the flare-prone finder: the MP finder is quite a bit better. And yes, I've tried both. And also M2, M3, M4-P, M6, M7...

Cheers,

R.
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Old 12-19-2016   #94
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Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Why? I'd like another BMW R90S motorcycle to replace the one I sold when I left California in '92. But I'd like it in Bol d'Or orange.

By your logic, I should buy a white R80 and fit a bikini fairing. IT'S NOT THE SAME. Besides which, the Millennium is a bloody M6ttl with the flare-prone finder: the MP finder is quite a bit better. And yes, I've tried both. And also M2, M3, M4-P, M6, M7...

Cheers,

R.
And which one did you keep?

I was explaining this to a friend who has more gear than me: I want to be able to head out the door and pick up my one camera not have to make a decision about which camera to take. I have only one set of eyes and fingers and so can only use on at a time. . .
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Old 12-19-2016   #95
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Are we having a bad day? Apologies if I am misreading your post, Roger.

Yes, the MP is a different camera than the Millennium, esp with respect to height, size of the shutter speed dial, where the black paint is applied etc. But I was merely trying to say that a black paint MP is too expensive for what it is, given the info in Thomas's first post; it seems he would like a black paint body. I think I may suggest another camera, no?

You do make a good point regarding the finder, but that is also very personal and I know several who aren't bothered by flare. Still a Millennium with the upgraded finder will be a lot cheaper than a new MP alc.

Only my opinion which is likely worth very little. Sometimes I wonder why I bother posting.

P



Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Why? I'd like another BMW R90S motorcycle to replace the one I sold when I left California in '92. But I'd like it in Bol d'Or orange.

By your logic, I should buy a white R80 and fit a bikini fairing. IT'S NOT THE SAME. Besides which, the Millennium is a bloody M6ttl with the flare-prone finder: the MP finder is quite a bit better. And yes, I've tried both. And also M2, M3, M4-P, M6, M7...

Cheers,

R.
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Old 12-19-2016   #96
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Originally Posted by twhittle View Post
And which one did you keep?

I was explaining this to a friend who has more gear than me: I want to be able to head out the door and pick up my one camera not have to make a decision about which camera to take. I have only one set of eyes and fingers and so can only use on at a time. . .
I still have one each of M2, M4-P, MP. I got rid of my last M3 years ago, because the absence of 35mm frames is a deal-breaker for me, and the M6ttl was a camera I had for review for a magazine: I had it about 6 weeks. Even if I could have afforded to keep it, I didn't like it was well as my other Ms (2x M2, M4-P and I may still have had an M3).

Deciding which film M to use really is not difficult. I don't like to have only one camera with no spare/back-up, so the MP is my main Leica, M2 (with Rapidwinder) is a back-up, and the M4-P is so ratty it's not worth selling. Having 3x M film cameras does not involve me in difficult choices when it comes to going out of the door!

Cheers.

R.
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Old 12-19-2016   #97
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Originally Posted by philipus View Post
Are we having a bad day? Apologies if I am misreading your post, Roger.

Yes, the MP is a different camera than the Millennium, esp with respect to height, size of the shutter speed dial, where the black paint is applied etc. But I was merely trying to say that a black paint MP is too expensive for what it is, given the info in Thomas's first post; it seems he would like a black paint body. I think I may suggest another camera, no?

You do make a good point regarding the finder, but that is also very personal and I know several who aren't bothered by flare. Still a Millennium with the upgraded finder will be a lot cheaper than a new MP alc.

Only my opinion which is likely worth very little. Sometimes I wonder why I bother posting.

P
Not a bad day at all. I'm just pointing out that if you want something, you should only put up with second best -- and next to an MP the M6ttl IS second-best -- if you can't afford what you really want.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 12-19-2016   #98
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Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
and next to an MP the M6ttl IS second-best -- if you can't afford what you really want.
Not mine, I had the MP finder put in, 90 & 135 frame lines removed, installed an ultra custom version of griptac and much prefer the black chrome finish / canted rewind, larger shutter dial for handling as an actual working camera, not a show piece.

All for the low price of $1,450 including a full CLA. No desire for a black paint MP and I get to keep the other $60K in working tools I have including all the new CFi / CFe lenses I just upgraded to in my blad system.
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Old 12-19-2016   #99
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Originally Posted by twhittle View Post
And which one did you keep?

I was explaining this to a friend who has more gear than me: I want to be able to head out the door and pick up my one camera not have to make a decision about which camera to take. I have only one set of eyes and fingers and so can only use on at a time. . .
I don't have to make this sort of decision either, I pick the one with film in it. Now and then, but not very often, I decide it would be unsuitable and pick another.

Going back to food, best to prefer what's in the larder and ready and then consider the time the cook has free...

Regards, David
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Old 12-19-2016   #100
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I would do it, go for it! You will find it very liberating to only have one body and a few select lenses. What's the point of having so much gear laying around if you can only have one camera around your neck anyway? Sell everything, keep the MP with you at all times, and you'll never miss a great shot.
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Old 12-19-2016   #101
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keep the MP with you at all times, and you'll never miss a great shot.
Totally, my M6 easily does that as good as someone's Luigi half case'd MP does.
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Old 12-19-2016   #102
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Originally Posted by KM-25 View Post
Not mine, I had the MP finder put in, 90 & 135 frame lines removed, installed an ultra custom version of griptac and much prefer the black chrome finish / canted rewind, larger shutter dial for handling as an actual working camera, not a show piece.

All for the low price of $1,450 including a full CLA. No desire for a black paint MP and I get to keep the other $60K in working tools I have including all the new CFi / CFe lenses I just upgraded to in my blad system.
Then again, I much prefer BP to (hideously ugly) black chrome. I don't care much for the easily bent rewind crank, either. Does that make my heavily used MP a "show piece"? Not really. It's the photographer who decides whether it's a working camera or a show piece. Don't impose your fantasies on others who actually use their cameras.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 12-19-2016   #103
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I don't have to make this sort of decision either, I pick the one with film in it. Now and then, but not very often, I decide it would be unsuitable and pick another.

Going back to food, best to prefer what's in the larder and ready and then consider the time the cook has free...

Regards, David
Dear David,

Exactly. There are two ways to think about things: in the real world, or in terms of absolutes. I prefer the real world.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 12-19-2016   #104
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Don't impose your fantasies on others who actually use their cameras.

Cheers,

R.
The cheers part is almost comically placed...

So we both use our cameras, big whoop. Will the person spending 5K to have his or hers customized use theirs as much?....anyone's guess huh. I would not spend that on something I make a full time living with unless it was because of the value it has as a working tool, not the cosmetics, hence it was an easy decision to make to spend 10K on a digital back for my Hasselblads.

I had an MP3 kit for awhile, the one with the 50 Asph and while it was nice and all, I sold it because it was too pretty, I need the pictures to be pretty, not the camera...
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Old 12-19-2016   #105
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The cheers part is almost comically placed...

So we both use our cameras, big whoop. Will the person spending 5K to have his or hers customized use theirs as much?....anyone's guess huh. I would not spend that on something I make a full time living with unless it was because of the value it has as a working tool, not the cosmetics, hence it was an easy decision to make to spend 10K on a digital back for my Hasselblads.

I had an MP3 kit for awhile, the one with the 50 Asph and while it was nice and all, I sold it because it was too pretty, I need the pictures to be pretty, not the camera...
Well, yes, that was exactly my point.

I repeat: Don't impose your fantasies, or even your experience, on others who actually use their cameras: I earned a living with mine (mostly Leicas) for decades. Be equally hesitant to impose your fantasies or experience on those who want a camera just because it's beautiful and will therefore (they hope) inspire them. It may or may not inspire them. But it's the hope that counts.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 12-19-2016   #106
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Originally Posted by twhittle View Post
Seeing as it is the new year soon, I was interested in your opinion of what I should do:

After ammassing quite a lot of gear and having lots go through my hands I'm thinking of selling everything. I would replace it all with one MP a la carte.

Currently on rotation I have: Mamiya 7ii with 80/4, Fujifilm GA645, Rolleiflex iib, Pentax 67 with 105/2.4 and 135/4 and 200/4, Canon T90 with 50/1.4, Nikon FE with 85/2 and 50/1.8, Contax T2 and Leica M2 with 50/2.8 and 35/2.

I would sell everything except the two Leica lenses and order an MP a la carte in black paint, original vulcanite, 35/50/90 frame lines and original script. It would almost be a straight swap if I do this.

So what should I do?
I would keep the GA645 and the Contax T2 because they have uniquely different operational characteristics, and output, from the Leica.

This being said, I wouldn't be interested in the ALC MP to begin with. I'd spend the freed scratch on a beater M3 with a bad RF. Pop in a new RF, get it painted black, and use a Gossen DigiSix when I really need a meter. (Providing this costs less than the ALC MP).
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Old 12-19-2016   #107
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Well this has been an enlightening thread. I found out Roger *probably* does not like sweet pork as much as I do. My love developed in Chinatown's cheaper dives where sweet may trump quality meat.

And support for my dislike of black chrome.
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Old 12-19-2016   #108
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Buyer beware: My MP had several issues when I owned it. Jammed shutter. Loose top plate. Wouldn't load a role of film sometimes.

The ala carte M7 I owned went into Leica NJ twice. DAG twice. Loose top plate again. Jammed shutter. Big chunk of dust in VF/RFer. Slipping shutter. Film not loading again.

Never had these issues with my first Leica a M3. The M6 I owned twice was way more reliable than the MP or the M7.

Could be me, but I lost confidence in the MP/M7's after the third time to repair.

But, If you really have your heart on a ala carte MP do it. Sell it all and get the MP. Good luck!
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Old 12-19-2016   #109
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Well, yes, that was exactly my point.

I repeat: Don't impose your fantasies, or even your experience, on others who actually use their cameras: I earned a living with mine (mostly Leicas) for decades. Be equally hesitant to impose your fantasies or experience on those who want a camera just because it's beautiful and will therefore (they hope) inspire them. It may or may not inspire them. But it's the hope that counts.

Cheers,

R.
I'm not buying it, my experience is what forms my opinion and my opinion is as welcome as any other on here. Mine is not an imposition but merely an opinion based on direct experience.

The OP had to know this would be a hot topic and that may includes some flames. Live and let live, but if you ask for opinions, be prepared for a variety of them.
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Old 12-19-2016   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjlapier View Post
Buyer beware: My MP had several issues when I owned it. Jammed shutter. Loose top plate. Wouldn't load a role of film sometimes.

The ala carte M7 I owned went into Leica NJ twice. DAG twice. Loose top plate again. Jammed shutter. Big chunk of dust in VF/RFer. Slipping shutter. Film not loading again.

Never had these issues with my first Leica a M3. The M6 I owned twice was way more reliable than the MP or the M7.

Could be me, but I lost confidence in the MP/M7's after the third time to repair.

But, If you really have your heart on a ala carte MP do it. Sell it all and get the MP. Good luck!
My experience as well. The MP and M7 have been the most unreliable Leica cameras I have ever used, including digital.
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Old 12-19-2016   #111
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I'm not buying it, my experience is what forms my opinion and my opinion is as welcome as any other on here. Mine is not an imposition but merely an opinion based on direct experience.

The OP had to know this would be a hot topic and that may includes some flames. Live and let live, but if you ask for opinions, be prepared for a variety of them.
Yeah, I'm a little disorientated why your particular viewpoint is imposing. What are you forcing?
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Old 12-20-2016   #112
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"After ammassing quite a lot of gear and having lots go through my hands I'm thinking of selling everything. I would replace it all with one MP a la carte."


If this is what you're thinking after going through all that gear then it really is what you should do. There's no logic in all of this gear b*llsh*t. Just be prepared for the possibility of wanting to sell the a la carte down the road.
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Old 12-20-2016   #113
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Yeah, I'm a little disorientated why your particular viewpoint is imposing. What are you forcing?
The opinion is perfectly valid.

The fantasies are first, that professionals don't use Leicas and second, that there's no point in buying one camera that looks better than the other, even if they are functionally identical.

The former is simply nonsense and the latter implies such a bleak, utilitarian world that few of us would want to live in it.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 12-20-2016   #114
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"After ammassing quite a lot of gear and having lots go through my hands I'm thinking of selling everything. I would replace it all with one MP a la carte."


If this is what you're thinking after going through all that gear then it really is what you should do. There's no logic in all of this gear b*llsh*t. Just be prepared for the possibility of wanting to sell the a la carte down the road.
Exactly. But if you do what makes you happy, instead of settling for second best, there's a better chance that you'll be happy -- at least for a while!

Cheers,

R.
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Old 12-20-2016   #115
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The opinion is perfectly valid.

The fantasies are first, that professionals don't use Leicas and second, that there's no point in buying one camera that looks better than the other, even if they are functionally identical.

The former is simply nonsense and the latter implies such a bleak, utilitarian world that few of us would want to live in it.

Cheers,

R.
Thank you all for your insightful and varied input.

For me this question was about workflow and clearing out distraction from my life. A one camera one lens system would allow me to focus on making prints and not worrying about formats/ colour vs b&w/ rangefinder vs anything else...

Yes it perhaps is utilitarian to discuss the merits of a black paint over chrome, but I am interested in having a tool which will burnish and carry the marks of use.

Ultimately, I have just ordered a couple of bricks of 120 HP5+ and will be just using my Mamiya 7ii this Christmas holiday. I think this combo could be the winning ticket.
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Old 12-20-2016   #116
KM-25
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Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
I'm really glad you have all those new CFi/CFe lenses in your "blad" system. Now you are a real photographer.
Yeah, they certainly do work better with the digital back in terms of sheer image quality with the improved inner baffling and focus a lot easier in this cold weather, although not too bad today at 12F just before sunrise.

It's a key system for me so keeping it updated is money well spent.
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Old 12-20-2016   #117
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Originally Posted by FujiLove View Post
This plan will almost certainly:

1. Produce the highest number of quality photos

2. Generate the most happiness

3. Be the cure for the OP's GAS

4. Almost certainly be ignored!

aww...
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Old 12-20-2016   #118
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The opinion is perfectly valid.

The fantasies are first, that professionals don't use Leicas and second, that there's no point in buying one camera that looks better than the other, even if they are functionally identical.

The former is simply nonsense and the latter implies such a bleak, utilitarian world that few of us would want to live in it.

Cheers,

R.
When I talked to Bruce Gilden in Times Square in 2010, it somehow came up that he had bought his black paint MP used.

If the OP wants to go full tilt with an uber customized MP so be it, Leica ticks that box like no other. But it is in my *opinion* a highly personal choice so it is going to get a very high degree of varied response. Some will say go for it, some will say they never would.

I'm in the latter category on the Leica but not with my Gibellini 4x5 that is taking nearly 9 months to make....we have to source blue carbon fiber from Italian automotive super star Pagani...the camera is being built for use and marketing purposes in the ultra wealthy area that I live in. It's going to be jaw dropping stunning and super purpose built in terms of function but be about $1K cheaper than an ala' carte MP.

Given my revealing of the latter, I will now don my ala' cartel flame suit...;-)
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Old 12-20-2016   #119
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Thank you all for your insightful and varied input.

For me this question was about workflow and clearing out distraction from my life. A one camera one lens system would allow me to focus on making prints and not worrying about formats/ colour vs b&w/ rangefinder vs anything else...

Yes it perhaps is utilitarian to discuss the merits of a black paint over chrome, but I am interested in having a tool which will burnish and carry the marks of use.

Ultimately, I have just ordered a couple of bricks of 120 HP5+ and will be just using my Mamiya 7ii this Christmas holiday. I think this combo could be the winning ticket.
Good thinking and great choices!
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Old 12-20-2016   #120
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Originally Posted by KM-25 View Post
When I talked to Bruce Gilden in Times Square in 2010, it somehow came up that he had bought his black paint MP used.

If the OP wants to go full tilt with an uber customized MP so be it, Leica ticks that box like no other. But it is in my *opinion* a highly personal choice so it is going to get a very high degree of varied response. Some will say go for it, some will say they never would.

I'm in the latter category on the Leica but not with my Gibellini 4x5 that is taking nearly 9 months to make....we have to source blue carbon fiber from Italian automotive super star Pagani...the camera is being built for use and marketing purposes in the ultra wealthy area that I live in. It's going to be jaw dropping stunning and super purpose built in terms of function but be about $1K cheaper than an ala' carte MP.

Given my revealing of the latter, I will now don my ala' cartel flame suit...;-)
Flame suit? No fire sticks here. Just shows how personal gear can be and, if I may say, why gear decisions should be a no-judgment zone discussion.
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