Old 05-22-2016   #81
Jhausler
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Woohoo, I got one!

Found a complete set at a local camera store (hour drive) for $200.. not bad.

That said.. i can't get crisp shots.. or maybe my expectations are too high. I'm trying to replace my PrimeFilm XA, so that's my comparison.

I think i have it in good focus with the ground loupe, but when i take the pictures (at f8 or f11) it doesn't look as crisp as I would have thought.

A few questions maybe people can answer..

1) When doing this with an M9, after long exposures, it counts down and says Noise Reduction 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

Is that something I can turn off? I'm taking DNG raw, uncompressed.

2) My only 50s are an ooold Elmar 50/3.5 and a Summilux ASPH, so i've been using the Lux. Do I choose the 50 Lux in the manual lens coding on the body? or let it go uncoded?

I'll post more after I try a few more things tonight.

Thanks!
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Old 05-22-2016   #82
Emile de Leon
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Quote:
That said.. i can't get crisp shots..
Taking lenses aren't going to cut it..unless you give up the corners..or stop down and lose definition thru diffraction..and even then..the corners are probably still weak..
Get a good late model enlarging lens for best results..its designed for flat field work..
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Old 05-22-2016   #83
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Fair enough about enlarging lenses. I was having trouble in the middle of the field though. I'm trying again on a much more stable surface.

What do you stop down to on your lens? I can definitely see the difference between f8 and f11 on the Lux.

Come to think of it, i have a few 50s to choose from. Let me know if you recommend one over another...

50 Lux
Canon 50/1.4
Elmar 50/3.5
Jupiter 8, 50/2
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Old 05-22-2016   #84
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I think it's possible the old 50 3.5 might have a flatter field. I'm using the Elmar M 50 2.8. Some shots are terrific, others less so. Getting the white balance right is difficult with my fluoro tube light box. Taking the camera on and off for every shot to refocus would be too too tedious but might be best for ideal focus on each one. I'm going to the Nikon next weekend to scan some 35mm properly.
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Old 05-22-2016   #85
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ok, i did a bit more playing around and I think I like the M9 scanned images better than the XA. The files seem more workable and the tones seem smoother.


Cows 1 [Full Size]




Cows 2 [Full Size]



Not a guessing game or anything, but I am curious to hear peoples thoughts. I tried doing an HDR with some bracketing as well.. That just came out weird.

Jesse
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Old 05-22-2016   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
I think it's possible the old 50 3.5 might have a flatter field. I'm using the Elmar M 50 2.8. Some shots are terrific, others less so. Getting the white balance right is difficult with my fluoro tube light box. Taking the camera on and off for every shot to refocus would be too too tedious but might be best for ideal focus on each one. I'm going to the Nikon next weekend to scan some 35mm properly.
I'm having trouble as well with white balance on C-41. I'm inverting (cmd+I) in photoshop and then bringing it back to LR. I'm at 100 essentially on both temp and tint and it's not enough. Curious to hear how you handle that.
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Old 05-22-2016   #87
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I'm having trouble as well with white balance on C-41. I'm inverting (cmd+I) in photoshop and then bringing it back to LR. I'm at 100 essentially on both temp and tint and it's not enough. Curious to hear how you handle that.
First, your shots look great. I couldn't get the manual white balance to work once the camera is mounted. I should do it next time off the stand with just the light box.
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Old 05-23-2016   #88
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Originally Posted by Emile de Leon View Post
Taking lenses aren't going to cut it..unless you give up the corners..or stop down and lose definition thru diffraction..and even then..the corners are probably still weak..
Get a good late model enlarging lens for best results..its designed for flat field work..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
I think it's possible the old 50 3.5 might have a flatter field. I'm using the Elmar M 50 2.8. Some shots are terrific, others less so...Taking the camera on and off for every shot to refocus would be too too tedious but might be best for ideal focus on each one. I'm going to the Nikon next weekend to scan some 35mm properly.
From my experience using the DR-Summicron at f/11 with both the M-Monochrom and the M9-P on the BEOON there is no problem with the corners — also diffraction is not an issue with this lens than on these "full-size" sensors at f/11. I have not tried an enlarging lens, but the BEEON was designed for this type of macro copying with a normal 50mm lens: I'm using the A+D rings for 1:1.

Moreover, once I used the full aperture of f/2 to focus, I have not had to refocus. Richard G: why do you have to "take the camera on and off" to refocus in any case? BTW, your lens should be focused at infinity and the focusing is done with the "milled ring for focusing" on the BEOON column, then stop down to f/11 for exposure; once you tighten the "locking screw," the BEOON is very solid — I've not had to refocus even once in the last three weeks. Have you looked at the BEOON manual?
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Old 05-23-2016   #89
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Ahh.. two other tips that may help when using an M9:

* Use the USB cable on the M9 and connect it to the computer. This way you can check critical focus before you shoot a whole series of negatives.

* I used the self-timer on the M9 (didn't have a cable release) to negate motion blur.
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Old 05-23-2016   #90
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Ahh.. two other tips that may help when using an M9:

* Use the USB cable on the M9 and connect it to the computer. This way you can check critical focus before you shoot a whole series of negatives.

* I used the self-timer on the M9 (didn't have a cable release) to negate motion blur.
Ha. I didnt even realize the M9 could USB to a computer. Im also using the self timer.

Whats the best way to advance each frame? I assume pulling the negative underneath the stand will scratch the negs.
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Old 05-23-2016   #91
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Just lift the BEOON and reposition.
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Old 05-23-2016   #92
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After talking with Sug last year I started using a BEOON for quick scans of 120 film.

I place the negatives between the light table and a piece of acetate. Keeps em flat and I don't worry about scratches. It helps if there's limited stray light in the room to reduce reflections.
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Old 05-23-2016   #93
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So would something like these better than an ASPH Summilux?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RODENSTOCK-T...AAAOSw3mpXM9ou

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-O...MAAOSwPcVVr7FG
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Old 05-23-2016   #94
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Quote:
So would something like these better than an ASPH Summilux?
Hey..why not do it right..and spend a little money..cry once..luv it forever..
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Rodagon_N.html
or..steal this one...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AB-Excellent...8AAOSwYmZXHTyn
These can be used wide open..or 1/2 to 1 stop down for best results..at least the Focotar 2 can be..
Good Luck!
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Old 05-23-2016   #95
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Emile - have you actually tried and compared the performance of an enlarging lens with a good 50mm lens on the BEOON — or are you just writing this theoretically? I would think the the old Leitz company would have recommended using enlarging lenses on the BEOON if they thought they worked better: after all they were also manufacturing the Focotar lenses at the time they were selling the BEOON.

I also as skeptical about the using a Focotar on a macro mount, which is what the BEOON is, would work well with the Focotar wide open.

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Old 05-23-2016   #96
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I tried a lot of lenses with the BEOON...it was a learning experience..
Leica R 60mm macro..didn't cut it..
DR Summicron...didn't cut it..
Older Focotars...didn't cut it...
Focotar 2 was the best...by a wide margin..
35mm f1.4 asph...didn't work..
Focotar 2 100mm ...didn't work..
Used a fine grid neg to see the corners..
OK..
Just double checked the DR Summi...which is my fave bright light high resolution lens...
Against the Focotar 2...there is no comparison...the corners are not there at all at any aperture..
As good as the DR is as a taking lens...it is not the tool for flat field work..
But that said..unless you are real picky..and really need the corners..as in..who take pics of brick walls..you probably wont see much of a difference..but..if you have the enlarging lens..an apo or the Focotar..this will wean you off the DR etc...real fast...as it did me..
All this was a surprise to me...as I really wanted my 60 R macro to work..as it is a stunning lens..
And..the best f stop for the Focotar is wide open..or 1/2 stop down at 5.6..it was made this way..
And..just because Leica said way back then..you could use any old 50mm stopped way down..that was not the best solution.
OK..you decide..whats best for you..and how picky you want to be..
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Old 05-23-2016   #97
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Originally Posted by Emile de Leon View Post
I tried a lot of lenses with the BEOON...it was a learning experience..
Leica R 60mm macro..didn't cut it..
DR Summicron...didn't cut it..
Older Focotars...didn't cut it...
Focotar 2 was the best...by a wide margin..
35mm f1.4 asph...didn't work..
Focotar 2 100mm ...didn't work..
Used a fine grid neg to see the corners..
OK..
Just double checked the DR Summi...which is my fave bright light high resolution lens...
Against the Focotar 2...there is no comparison...the corners are not there at all at any aperture..
As good as the DR is as a taking lens...it is not the tool for flat field work..
But that said..unless you are real picky..and really need the corners..as in..who take pics of brick walls..you probably wont see much of a difference..but..if you have the enlarging lens..an apo or the Focotar..this will wean you off the DR etc...real fast...as it did me..
All this was a surprise to me...as I really wanted my 60 R macro to work..as it is a stunning lens..
And..the best f stop for the Focotar is wide open..or 1/2 stop down at 5.6..it was made this way..
And..just because Leica said way back then..you could use any old 50mm stopped way down..that was not the best solution.
OK..you decide..whats best for you..and how picky you want to be..

Wow, thanks so much for this! If you have the spare time, could you post a few shots with the bad corners vs the Fotocar 2? I think i see it myself to be honest even in the cow images above. The top one was the BEOON w/ Lux, and the 2nd was the PrimeFilm XA. The later has better looking corners.

This have been a very helpful thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed and to Sug for starting it.
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Old 05-23-2016   #98
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Wow, thanks so much for this!
No problem!
But...
Its pretty obvious in your 2 shots..the Lux..was not getting the corners..
but..again...its how picky do you want to be..
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Old 05-23-2016   #99
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Thanks for the detailed response. Not that I don't agree — I can't take the any position since I don't have a Focotar to try — but I find that at f/11 the DR Summocron works great on the BEOON, but then I haven't shot any brick walls.

Also, I wonder whether you've tried the DR Summicronon extensively at f/11, since you've indicated that it suffers from diffraction, but from what I've read about this on a full-frame sensor, and from my own trials, this is not the case.

In any case, I wonder why the corners should be soft with the DR Summicorn at f/11.
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Old 05-23-2016   #100
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Any thoughts on the El Nikkor?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EL-NIKKOR-50...EAAOSwfC9XOndV
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Old 05-23-2016   #101
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Its pretty obvious in your 2 shots..the Lux..was not getting the corners..
I didn't even need to be picky to see that
It was quite obvious. Thanks again.
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Old 05-23-2016   #102
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Whats the best way to advance each frame?
I use a Beseler Negatrans. Position the strip, and then turn the knob to advance to the next frame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhausler View Post
Any thoughts on the El Nikkor?
50/4 EL Nikkor on my setup.
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Old 05-23-2016   #103
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Thanks for the detailed response. Not that I don't agree — I can't take the any position since I don't have a Focotar to try — but I find that at f/11 the DR Summocron works great on the BEOON, but then I haven't shot any brick walls.

Also, I wonder whether you've tried the DR Summicronon extensively at f/11, since you've indicated that it suffers from diffraction, but from what I've read about this on a full-frame sensor, and from my own trials, this is not the case.

In any case, I wonder why the corners should be soft with the DR Summicorn at f/11
DR and normal 50's..just aren't designed to have total corner sharpness..they are not flat field...and the corners never really get totally sharp..no matter how much you stop them down..its only when you compare it to a real flat field lens..that you can see whats really going on there..
I remember using my DR with Tech Pan years ago on a regular basis..and I think if memory serves..around 5.6 to f8 was best overall..amazing really..but..that was for scenics..
As far as enlarging lenses..the El nikkors are good..and should work fine if they fit..and even a longer 60mm el Nikkor or similar.. may be better for corner sharpness..on the BEOON that is.
I believe the Focotar 2 is a process lens..and made for optimum performance on the Focomat..at wide open or close..as diffraction sets in real fast at f8 or below..you can see this clearly thru a grain magnifier..
I once compared an El nikkor 105mm to my Focotar 2 100mm..and an older Leitz 100mm..the El nikkor and the Focotar 2 were real close..the older Leitz 100mm..wasn't in the same league..the Focotar 2 was best..but not by much..
I never had the chance to try the famed Apo El Nikkor enlarging lens..but I hear they were the best ever made..and very expensive..
Here is something to try with your DR...
Just put the BEOON on a thin table cloth...make sure it is flat and in focus..you will see the threads real well..and take a pic at every lens opening...and look at it on your computer screen..magnifying the corners..you will see how your lens behaves at every F stop..you may be surprised at what you see..
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Old 05-23-2016   #104
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Originally Posted by Emile de Leon View Post
the El nikkors are good..and should work fine if they fit..and even a longer 60mm el Nikkor or similar.. may be better for corner sharpness..on the BEOON that is.
Would a 60mm give me the full frame on the BEOON using A+D? i imagine it would crop a bit, no?
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Old 05-23-2016   #105
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I tried my 60mm R macro and it worked just fine..I forget now what combination of ext rings I used..as this was a year ago..but it works..I'll check tomorrow to see what the details are..
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Old 05-24-2016   #106
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OK..
I did a quicky test of the Focotar2 @ F5.6...and the DR Summicron @ F11..on the BEOON..
The upper right magnified portion is the extreme corner...and the focus point was the center of the 35mm frame (not shown)..both were sharp in center..but the DR was not as flat field as the Focotar..
OK..so..if you focus on the corner..then the center is out on both lenses..and if you focus on the center..the corners are out...but to different degrees..
But..I wonder..how a Schneider or Rodenstock APO would do..? As I don't own these lenses..
OK..
Guess which is which...!

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Old 05-24-2016   #107
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First one is the DR?

Thanks for these. Very helpful.

I'm going to pick up an El-Nikkor 50/2.8N. They seem to be well praised.

Do i need any retaining rings or anything of that sort to mount on the BEOON?
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Old 05-24-2016   #108
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The EL will screw into the extensions directly, just depends on which combination you need to optimize magnification
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Old 05-24-2016   #109
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I used an EL Nikkor 50mm f4 (much cheaper than the f2.8) at f8 and all seems good, focus the lens at f4 is plenty enough then stop down to scan. You can see all the samples in my flikr using it vs 2 years ago i was using a flat bed V600 Epson. It's night and day when scan using the BEOON. works well w BW, for color I have a real hard time removing the orange mask.
Another tip, I tape the bottom of the stand to stop the scratching of negatives, i scratched a few so i know this works!
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Old 05-26-2016   #110
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Ok, so this is weird. I got the El-Nikkor 50/2.8N in the mail today and shot some frames using A+D (with an ltm>M adapter).. its no longer 1:1

wth?

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Old 05-26-2016   #111
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Add another extension...
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Old 05-26-2016   #112
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yeah, i tried that but then oddly i couldn't focus.

Does this mean that the El Nikkor isn't truly a 50, but instead something wider?
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Old 05-26-2016   #113
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Maybe best to use 1 or more 39mm filter rings (w/o glass) for "fine tuning" the specific lens to the BEOON...or if you are using an A7 or similar..one of those close focusing adapters to bring the cam closer or further away by increment.
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Old 05-26-2016   #114
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Yes, or simple spacers like o rings can fine-tune. My setup uses ABCD and an LTM adapter but part of the extra length is due to the Negatrans.
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Old 05-26-2016   #115
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Ok, so this is weird. I got the El-Nikkor 50/2.8N in the mail today and shot some frames using A+D (with an ltm>M adapter).. its no longer 1:1

wth?

The same thing happened when I used my 50mm APO-Rodagon, which otherwise works just fine. As I recall, I ended up using A+C, and in comparing it with my 50mm Summicron v4 stopped down to f11, the results weren't that much better. Also, it was easier to nail focus with the Summicron, at f2, before stopping down. Finally, I can leave it mounted, and use it to copy MF without switching lenses.

By the way, there's a portfolio of old shots, including some performance photos of T-Bone Walker, Lightnin' Hopkins and Mama Thornton, copied form the negatives this way on my site [Performances 1966-1972]. The shots actually end up looking better than the vintage prints, since I have more control over tonal values. Most of these were from shots on pushed Tri-X and some HP5. They're still grainy, but I feel that the grain is [mostly] acceptably sharp to the edges. In fact, it's easier to get these focused, due to the very grainy nature of the original negatives [mostly processed in Acufine, as i recall].
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Old 05-26-2016   #116
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well.... using C+D or A+B+D (which appears to be the same thing), i can get closer to 1:1, but i can't lower the stand enough to focus. BEOON wants it's lens at infinity and i'm assuming that enlarger lenses are focused for much closer?

i put it on my M9 and fired some shots away.. i can't tell what the focus point on this is.

Emile, do you get 1:1 with your Fotocar? or do you end up cropping
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Old 05-26-2016   #117
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34.4mm = D
17.2mm = C
8.6mm = B
7mm = A
1mm = LTM adapter
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Old 05-27-2016   #118
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Quote:
Emile, do you get 1:1 with your Fotocar? or do you end up cropping
With the Focotar 2 and an A7 w/close focus adapter at full extention...I get 1 to 1 with a little bit of the mask showing on 3 sides..and the bottom side mask edge hardly showing at all.
This is with Rings C & A and 2 screw to M mount adapters on either side...1 for cam and 1 for lens.
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Old 05-27-2016   #119
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Emile - BTW, can the Focotar 2 be focused to infinity? Frankly, I remain skeptical about the Focotar 2 having obviously better edges than the DR Summicron on the BEOON, for the same reason that I wrote earlier: the BEOON was made for copying negatives and slides and Leitz was also selling Focotar lenses at the time — if the results were so much better with the Focotar it's a no-brainer that Leitz would have stated that the results with the Focotar were at least somewhat better. In this way they would have sold some Focotar lenses to people who only shot slides and had no enlarger, and also to some people who shot negatives but did not print themselves. Your response was, essentially: that was then, this is now.

While the DR Summicron is not a flat field lens at f/2, it doesn't have any corner problems at the f/11 aperture recommended in the Leitz BEOON manual. If I could see credible tests shots with both lenses...
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Old 05-27-2016   #120
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Ok, so this is weird. I got the El-Nikkor 50/2.8N in the mail today and shot some frames using A+D (with an ltm>M adapter).. its no longer 1:1

wth?

That's interesting.

I find the same thing with my 50/2.8 EL Nikkor (image below). I chalked it up to scanning with a Fuji X Pro 1 and the crop factor. Never gave it a second thought.

Since then I've managed to get just past 1:1 with A, B, C and a 7mm LTM extension ring. I lose the outer 1/16th of an inch on all but the bottom edge.

Your image looks very close to mine with the A+D adapters + LTM to M adapter. I'll try another lens later and see what happens.


EL Nikkor on BEOON shows masked area
by Denis Lincoln, on Flickr
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Last edited by Wupjak : 05-27-2016 at 11:36. Reason: broken flickr link
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