Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Being a Photographer > Technique: How To Shoot It

Technique: How To Shoot It Ask questions about how to take pics, as well as share your own favorite shooting tips.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Curiosity question. Posting pictures with/without subjects permission.
Old 09-11-2016   #1
wacky941
Registered User
 
wacky941 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Pearland, Texas
Age: 53
Posts: 31
Curiosity question. Posting pictures with/without subjects permission.

I see quite many pictures throughout the RFF including in the gallery that are pictures of everyday people in their own routines just living life some appear to be clueless of their picture being taken so, that makes me wonder, do you have to get permission from those individuals to post their picture before it's posted?

Maybe, I'm reading more into it than there really is but, I don't know what the answer is so, I figured it's always better to check before just arbitrarily posting pictures that someone might be upset for having a picture posted without their permission. In the past, I've had people take group photos that included me and pictures that were taken while I was in the normal operations of my work day, some have contacted me to get my written permission before posting onto the internet and many have not. Personally, I really don't care but, many don't share my opinion.

Just curious because some of the pictures I've taken, I wouldn't have a clue as to how to contact them. What is the normal protocol for posting pictures like that here?
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-11-2016   #2
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto's Avatar
 
Chriscrawfordphoto is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Age: 41
Posts: 7,630
In the United States, you do not need anyone's permission to photograph them in public places and you do not need their permission to put photos of them online or display and sell the photos in art galleries or publish them.

You do need permission to use the photos for things the law regards as 'commercial work.' This would be things like selling the photo to a business that uses it in their advertising.
__________________
Christopher Crawford
Fine Art Photography
Fort Wayne, Indiana

Back home again in Indiana

http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com

My Technical Info pages: Film Developing times, scanning, printing, editing.

Buy My Prints in RFF Classifieds

Support My Work on Patreon
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-12-2016   #3
wacky941
Registered User
 
wacky941 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Pearland, Texas
Age: 53
Posts: 31
Okay, that's pretty much what I was thinking the answer was but, I just wasn't sure.

I wanted to make sure that I was doing the right thing if and when I decided to post random pictures of people doing everyday things especially when they are the direct subject.

Thank you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-12-2016   #4
johnwolf
Registered User
 
johnwolf's Avatar
 
johnwolf is offline
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,193
Chris' answer is spot on from the legal perspective in the US. But there is also a more subjective dimension to this question. It concerns sensitivity to and respect for the possible feelings of our subjects. Opinions vary widely on where that particular line is. It's something we all must determine for ourselves.

John
__________________
tumblr | Newest collections: India and The Wall.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-12-2016   #5
mpaniagua
Registered User
 
mpaniagua is offline
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico
Age: 44
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwolf View Post
Chris' answer is spot on from the legal perspective in the US. But there is also a more subjective dimension to this question. It concerns sensitivity to and respect for the possible feelings of our subjects. Opinions vary widely on where that particular line is. It's something we all must determine for ourselves.

John
Also, be aware that Internet is global, its doesnt belong to USA only, so other countries could have differente regulation. I suppose the best advise should be to be sensible. Like John says, try to be aware of your subject feelings. I suppose the best rule of thumb is to try to put yourself on your subject shoes. "Would I like to be posted on the internet like this?", that kind of quetions.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-12-2016   #6
Ko.Fe.
Me. Write ESL. Ko.
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Age: 50
Posts: 4,243
Exactly!

HCB and GW public photography was reviewed by publishers and galleries. But I'm not sure if it was necessary to moderate at all.

These days anyone could post anything on the Internet. And same what happened with the western television, cinematography where morality was flashed to the toilet happened with public photography online. Yes, I took some naughty pics on my "early days", but many popular photographs on street and "street photography" groups on Flickr have no sense of humanity and taste at all.

HCB was looking at the world as surrealist and humanist (while stealing and hunting), GW was America student (while smiling and nodding).
Now every time I'm opening Flickr street photography groups I see people neglected. Bruce Gilden wrongly interpreted and copied.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-13-2016   #7
willie_901
Registered User
 
willie_901's Avatar
 
willie_901 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
In the United States, you do not need anyone's permission to photograph them in public places and you do not need their permission to put photos of them online or display and sell the photos in art galleries or publish them.

You do need permission to use the photos for things the law regards as 'commercial work.' This would be things like selling the photo to a business that uses it in their advertising.
Exactly (in the US).

I would add you cannot photograph people in circumstances where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy. The phrase 'reasonable expectation of privacy' has different interpretations in different states and local jurisdictions. There are numerous court cases where the boundaries of "expectation of privacy' were at issue. I won't bore you with a summary. In general, if one is in not on private property and and, or in plain view, you have no 'legal expectation of privacy'.

Please understand I realize there is a difference between legal rights and personal ethics. I am not speaking to personal ethics. I don't really care about individuals' personal ethics because... well... they're personal
Also, you can not defame someone.

Otherwise there are no legal restrictions. This doesn't mean you won't get sued... it just means you will likely win the case.
__________________
"Perspective is governed by where you stand object size and the angle of view included in the picture is determined by focal length." H.S. Newcombe

williamchuttonjr.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-14-2016   #8
wacky941
Registered User
 
wacky941 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Pearland, Texas
Age: 53
Posts: 31
I guess the gist of it is to use discretion when posting.
Even though you can legally post something in the US providing the photo was taken of the subject out in the open public environment, discretion should be applied in the sense of asking yourself if this was a picture of you, would you want it posted on the Internet.
Very valid and useful responses and I do appreciate the feedback.
Thank you to all.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-15-2016   #9
willie_901
Registered User
 
willie_901's Avatar
 
willie_901 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,470
I never ask that question ("asking yourself if this was a picture of you, would you want it posted on the Internet.") because those sorts of photos are inconsistent with my project goals. At the same time I rarely ask permission.

Candid photography is not new. What's new is the level of effort required to display them where they can be viewed by large numbers of people.

We all have different ideas of discretion. Personally I avoid photographing those who are homeless, obese, inebriated, injured, physically/mentally challenged or in embarrassing situations (picking their nose for example). Otherwise I just obey the law and work quickly (without hiding behind telephoto lenses).
__________________
"Perspective is governed by where you stand object size and the angle of view included in the picture is determined by focal length." H.S. Newcombe

williamchuttonjr.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-15-2016   #10
wacky941
Registered User
 
wacky941 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Pearland, Texas
Age: 53
Posts: 31
I came across this article a couple minutes ago and found it to be interesting that it is related to the topic of discussion.

Quote:
NEWS
TEEN SUES PARENTS FOR SHARING CHILDHOOD PHOTOS ON FACEBOOK
Email
Facebook
Updated 2 hrs 45 mins ago
AUSTRIA (KTRK) -- An 18-year-old Austrian woman is suing her parents for posting embarrassing childhood photos of her on Facebook without her consent.

She claims that since 2009 they have been constantly posting photos of her, including embarrassing and intimate images from her childhood.


Michael Rami, her lawyer, claims that her parents have posted 500 images of her on the social media site without her consent, and he believes she has a good chance of winning in court.

The Local reports the shared images include baby pictures of diaper changes, potty training and nude baby photos.

"They knew no shame and no limit -- and didn't care whether it was a picture of me sitting on the toilet or lying naked in my cot -- every stage was photographed and then made public," the 18-year-old said.

Despite her requests, they have refused to delete the photos, prompting her to sue them.

"I'm tired of not being taken seriously by my parents", she said.

Her father believes that since he took the photos, he has the right to publish the images.

The parents have 700 friends and their privacy settings are unknown.

WFTS reports that the case will be heard in November, and if the parents lose, this could have repercussions for Austrians who post countless images of their children on social media without their consent.

Austrian privacy laws when it comes to social media are not as strict as some other countries - for example in France, anyone convicted of publishing and distributing images of another person without their consent can face up to one year in prison and a fine of up to $45,000. This would apply to parents publishing images of their children, too.
The bolded print is the main part that got my attention.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-15-2016   #11
giganova
Registered User
 
giganova is offline
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 852
The world has gone mad. I've given up street photography because more & more people scream at me, threaten me or tell me that it is "a crime" to make pictures of them. The Internet (Facebook, etc) has ruined it because now many people, and parents in particular, are horrified thinking that someone might abuse a picture of them. And I live in a country (US) that isn't even as crazy as some Europeans countries when it comes to privacy laws!
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-15-2016   #12
mpaniagua
Registered User
 
mpaniagua is offline
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico
Age: 44
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by giganova View Post
The world has gone mad. I've given up street photography because more & more people scream at me, threaten me or tell me that it is "a crime" to make pictures of them. The Internet (Facebook, etc) has ruined it because now many people, and parents in particular, are horrified thinking that someone might abuse a picture of them. And I live in a country (US) that isn't even as crazy as some Europeans countries when it comes to privacy laws!
Problem is that, with the many social networks available (Facebook,Instagram, you name it), every photo can be posted on Internet and some people are not comfortable with that. Take it a step ahead, and some people don't like to heard this, there is all kind of ill people watching internet and dont everyone would like that their pictures would be available to them. With the ready availability of Internet and social networks, all kind of doors are open, some pretty, others not so pretty. That's what make people wary about street photography Also, some people like to keep their privacy, for instance, where they where at certain time or hour. When you take pictures of people on the street and publishing them on the web, you are disclosing they location at certain times, who they where keeping company, etc. Again, some people don't like this kind of info disclosed on the internet. Before the social networks, there was hardly any chances than a picture that was taken on the street been available to anyone, except the person that took the photo. Now, its practically available to the whole world.

Again, be respectful and be aware of people that seems wary or uncomfortable.

Like you said,yes, the world has gone crazy... and the way I look at it, it wont get better.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-15-2016   #13
farlymac
PF McFarland
 
farlymac's Avatar
 
farlymac is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 5,109
When the day comes that I can't photograph a cow, I'll just throw all my cameras away.

It's a slippery slope when it comes to permissions, and "reasonable expectation of privacy". I guess that's why I do mostly landscape scenes. Though it seems that more and more, folks are having exceptions to just about anything being photographed, accusing the camera person of all kinds of malfeasance.

PF
__________________
Waiting for the light
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-15-2016   #14
mpaniagua
Registered User
 
mpaniagua is offline
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico
Age: 44
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by farlymac View Post
When the day comes that I can't photograph a cow, I'll just throw all my cameras away.

It's a slippery slope when it comes to permissions, and "reasonable expectation of privacy". I guess that's why I do mostly landscape scenes. Though it seems that more and more, folks are having exceptions to just about anything being photographed, accusing the camera person of all kinds of malfeasance.

PF
Couldnt agree more.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-15-2016   #15
Bob Michaels
nobody special
 
Bob Michaels's Avatar
 
Bob Michaels is offline
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Apopka FL (USA)
Age: 73
Posts: 3,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwolf View Post
...... But there is also a more subjective dimension to this question. It concerns sensitivity to and respect for the possible feelings of our subjects. Opinions vary widely on where that particular line is. It's something we all must determine for ourselves.
My personal guideline is quite simple. I just ask myself if I would have any problems looking that person straight in the eye and handing them a print.

Good thing as I have had a few occasions where the world we live in turned out to be much smaller than we sometimes think.
__________________
http://www.bobmichaels.org
internet forums appear to have an abundance of anonymous midgets prancing on stilts
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-15-2016   #16
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NYC
Age: 43
Posts: 17,802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Michaels View Post
My personal guideline is quite simple. I just ask myself if I would have any problems looking that person straight in the eye and handing them a print.

Good thing as I have had a few occasions where the world we live in turned out to be much smaller than we sometimes think.
Great advice IMO and yes, the world IS smaller than many believe.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-15-2016   #17
mpaniagua
Registered User
 
mpaniagua is offline
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico
Age: 44
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Michaels View Post
My personal guideline is quite simple. I just ask myself if I would have any problems looking that person straight in the eye and handing them a print.

Good thing as I have had a few occasions where the world we live in turned out to be much smaller than we sometimes think.
Great advise Bob. And yes, the world is a small place, now smaller than ever with Social Networks.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-15-2016   #18
Pioneer
Registered User
 
Pioneer's Avatar
 
Pioneer is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 63
Posts: 2,667
While I agree that you have some obligation to consider the feelings of others, I have to chuckle a bit about all this.

If I carry a camera on the street and photograph someone I am far more likely to be looked at oddly or approached, than if I did the exact same thing with an i-Phone.

Additionally, some of the best selling magazines in the world, at least in the US and Britain, contain all sorts of photographs of public figures in compromising situations, and no one thinks anything about it, except those who were photographed.

People photograph police, firemen, other emergency personnel, and all sorts of sordid and terrible things and then immediately post them on the internet. But the minute the camera points in their direction they go ballistic.

In my opinion it is hogwash. It is just another manifestation of the "not in my backyard" syndrome. Everyone loves to share the dirt about everyone else, but the moment they may become the dirt they get all holier than thou.

I DO NOT post photos of people in compromising situations. But I certainly have no qualms whatsoever about photographing people engaged in daily life.

EDIT - Of course, all that being said, I rarely post anything except for a few photos on this and a couple other forums. And, if approached nicely, I have been known to delete a photo if it was taken digitally. Since I shoot film a lot that isn't always possible.
__________________
"Your 1st 10,000 Photographs Are Your Worst"
HCBresson

"My 2nd 10,000 Are Not A Lot Better"
Dan
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-15-2016   #19
lukitas
second hand noob
 
lukitas's Avatar
 
lukitas is offline
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Brussels, belgium
Posts: 758
Ah, discretion in photography.

This is not meant to be a lesson in photographic manners, just an attempt to clarify how I navigate discretion and ethics.
As you can see from what I put on my blog and here on the gallery, I am quite shameless. I'll take a picture of anyone : friends, colleagues, strangers, beggars and drunks, right here in Brussels, capital of Belgium and Europe. The rapid rise of beggary makes me shudder; it would be dishonest, if I acted as if it wasn't there, and prudely didn't point my camera at it.

I do 'engage' with my subjects, were it but with the question mark in my eyebrows while I show them the camera. And when I've made the picture, I show it to them on the back of the camera. I give (small) prints to people I see regularly. At least the link to my blog. It pays to be as open and forward as possible, to be quite the opposite of discrete. I know, I've had a few run-ins with the authorities about a year ago. Since I make sure I cannot even be suspected of being surreptitious, shooting on the street generates a lot less friction.

When I am out, I am of course interested in the extremes, the things that twang my heart strings, the things that tickle my 'strange'-meter. And I refuse to unsee the underclass, the others, the beggars and drunkards and stinkards, they awaken in me the same fascination as all the 'normal' people.

Obviously, I think it is still quite feasible to shoot on the streets (and in the office), and I do not recoil from subjects some may find controversial, or even distasteful. I am not looking to find perverse and obscene situations, they present themselves to me. The only way I know how to do something about them is to show them. And I hope I do honour to the poor people I shoot, by giving them the same attention and respect I give to a portrait of my mother.

I do like to sound off sometimes.

And Bob nailed it.
__________________
lukitas

Gallery

photos by lukitas

Last edited by lukitas : 09-15-2016 at 12:52. Reason: clarity
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-15-2016   #20
Addy101
Registered User
 
Addy101 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,523
For Dutch photographers - a judge today ruled in the case of Rashid against De Volkskrant, it isn't published on Rechtspraak.nl yet. Note that the court doesn't object taking the picture or publishing it, it however considers the circumstances to be illegal. So, in the end, like all the advice in this very sensible thread - use your better judgement!
__________________
Das Bild ist ein Modell der Wirklichkeit - Wittgenstein
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-15-2016   #21
mpaniagua
Registered User
 
mpaniagua is offline
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico
Age: 44
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukitas View Post
Ah, discretion in photography.

This is not meant to be a lesson in photographic manners, just an attempt to clarify how I navigate discretion and ethics.
As you can see from what I put on my blog and here on the gallery, I am quite shameless. I'll take a picture of anyone : friends, colleagues, strangers, beggars and drunks, right here in Brussels, capital of Belgium and Europe. The rapid rise of beggary makes me shudder; it would be dishonest, if I acted as if it wasn't there, and prudely didn't point my camera at it.

I do 'engage' with my subjects, were it but with the question mark in my eyebrows while I show them the camera. And when I've made the picture, I show it to them on the back of the camera. I give (small) prints to people I see regularly. At least the link to my blog. It pays to be as open and forward as possible, to be quite the opposite of discrete. I know, I've had a few run-ins with the authorities about a year ago. Since I make sure I cannot even be suspected of being surreptitious, shooting on the street generates a lot less friction.

When I am out, I am of course interested in the extremes, the things that twang my heart strings, the things that tickle my 'strange'-meter. And I refuse to unsee the underclass, the others, the beggars and drunkards and stinkards, they awaken in me the same fascination as all the 'normal' people.

Obviously, I think it is still quite feasible to shoot on the streets (and in the office), and I do not recoil from subjects some may find controversial, or even distasteful. I am not looking to find perverse and obscene situations, they present themselves to me. The only way I know how to do something about them is to show them. And I hope I do honour to the poor people I shoot, by giving them the same attention and respect I give to a portrait of my mother.

I do like to sound off sometimes.

And Bob nailed it.
I dont think myself as a streetshooter but my late father was. He was a photographer for 50 or so years. Some of his very best street shoots where took in the manner you describe Lukitas. He engaged with the subject and created very strongs images. Sometimes they made poses but more often than not he asked them to be their self. Being open with the people will get them to feel safer and open themself to the camera and help screen out people that dont feel comfortable beign the subjects of your photos.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-15-2016   #22
nikonhswebmaster
Moderator NHS Forum
 
nikonhswebmaster's Avatar
 
nikonhswebmaster is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
In the United States, you do not need anyone's permission to photograph them in public places and you do not need their permission to put photos of them online or display and sell the photos in art galleries or publish them.
Pretty much true, as long as you do not defame them with a title, or the title of a show.
  Reply With Quote

Old 09-16-2016   #23
wacky941
Registered User
 
wacky941 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Pearland, Texas
Age: 53
Posts: 31
I've pretty much decided it may be best to steer clear of doing random shots of random people and stick to the much safer landscapes, sunrises/sunsets, pets/animals, inanimate objects such as cars, motorcycles, and airplanes.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 21:41.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.