HS Dropout or Photography Major?

[zauhar]

Originally Posted by PKR

The 3 local art schools graduate about 200 kids per year with a BFA in Photography. I meet a number of these kids each year who are looking for work. Few get jobs in the photo world. But, what I find from talking with some, relating stories of classmates - many don't even pursue photography as "Artists" or as a serious hobby after graduation.

The Dept. Head at one school told me that most of his students have parents who are "well off". Many kids don't have the grades to get into a good academic school, so they end up in an Art School where many don't have a serious interest in Art. The serious students with talent find work. It's a very small percentage of the total graduating each year.

I can believe this, I can also believe that photoMoof has students who are able to find good jobs if willing to travel.

I am fortunate to belong to a co-working site in Philly that is a hotbed of young tech talent. Most seem to be hanging on fine, and most are very happy. However, I have to add that for some of them, happy means working like a dog (so long as that work is interesting), and being able to afford some drinks on Friday night. Most have limited health insurance, the ones with families need to work many hours just to make sure their kids are covered.

From working here part time, I know a little about the state of tech - yes, there may be some good jobs at Facebook and Netflix, but how many and for how long? The game industry used to be a haven for talented nerds, ask anyone who worked recently for Electronic Arts how "nerd friendly" they are now. I hear about outsourcing - did you know the hot source for overseas geeks is now South America (Brazil and Uruguay)? $20 / hr for a talented developer, less than a garbage man makes in the US.

There is one young photographer here who seems to have a strong business going. He did not go to college, he started shooting as a kid, got very skilled at post-processing, and developed a reputation. He is very enthusiastic and outgoing, and talks a lot (I think he and Ken Rockwell could be best buds).

Randy

[photomoof]

Originally Posted by PKR

Many kids don't have the grades to get into a good academic school, so they end up in an Art School where many don't have a serious interest in Art. The serious students with talent find work. It's a very small percentage of the total graduating each year.

Well that is rather sad, I personally hate all sub-par schools -- some to just creat a lot of dept.

Academic art schools like Pratt, Cooper Union and Yale are not easy to get into.

[Dektol Dan]

Originally Posted by Moriturii

Art degrees for photography and acting is the biggest scam/joke I can think of. Makes me giggle when Americans say they have that. What do they think is going to happen? Go to an acting audition, guy gives them his diploma and they say you are hired? Hilarious.

If you want to become an actor, join a theater company. If you want to be a photographer buy a camera and go out. End of story, and if you think anything other (remember we are not talking about becoming a doctor here) you are lost cause.

Hey, if you guys have kids who want to become photography majors, tell them to give ME $30.000 (or whatever education costs in USA these days, because you guys need to pay money for education right? Funny) I'll take them around the planet 4 years non stop, from the mongolian mountains to the Hollywood parties in Bel Air, or they can "go to school", their choice.

My old man has at art degree and I have an MFA, my degrees are in fine art, photography being part of the broad major.

1.) One goes to school to get an education, not a job.
2.) One goes to school to learn history, language (terminology) and techniques of the particular craft, with photography the mechanics and chemistry as well.
3.) I am not an educated fool for living a van hand to mouth so I could afford an expensive craft and education at the same time.
4.) Self taught folks pick and choose what they like and not necessarily what they need for the broad picture. Everything in this world is connected, a formal education teaches one to connect.
5.) The joy of a formal education is hooking up with others with whom you share a common pursuit.
6.) A proper formal education given by the right folks is NEVER a waste of time or money. How you apply it is up to you.
7.) I feel confident that I more capable than any self taught photographer in this blog, and for this I thank my fantastic teachers (my father being one). I have shared in the experiences and insight of the best and I am better for it.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by Dektol Dan

My old man has at art degree and I have an MFA, my degrees are in fine art, photography being part of the broad major.

1.) One goes to school to get an education, not a job.
2.) One goes to school to learn history, language (terminology) and techniques of the particular craft, with photography the mechanics and chemistry as well.
3.) I am not an educated fool for living a van hand to mouth so I could afford an expensive craft and education at the same time.
4.) Self taught folks pick and choose what they like and not necessarily what they need for the broad picture. Everything in this world is connected, a formal education teaches one to connect.
5.) The joy of a formal education is hooking up with others with whom you share a common pursuit.
6.) A proper formal education given by the right folks is NEVER a waste of time or money. How you apply it is up to you.
7.) I feel confident that I more capable than any self taught photographer in this blog, and for this I thank my fantastic teachers (my father being one). I have shared in the experiences and insight of the best and I am better for it.

How many of us are truly 'self taught'? We all learn from other photographers, whether formally (college), semi-formally (apprentice/assistant) or informally (friends and acquaintances, and indeed books). I've learned a lot from the best, too. Just not at college.

Also, what does 'more capable' mean?

Cheers,

R.

[Brucefg]

Originally Posted by Bike Tourist

It's about the same, according to this piece:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/worst-...er.html?page=4

Of course, an education isn't all about money. Is it?

Yes, an education isn't all about money.

[DominikDUK]

Education is never a bad thing. I have an art degree and a history degree and a job :-)
I love educating myself I still go to lectures at art schools and other places.
I don't give a fig about a persons current education all I care about is wether she/he is willing to learn or not.
Art School can teach you a lot, art or photography isn't one of these things. Art schools are places for networking, getting new ideas. You learn about things you've never even considered learning about.
I loved my time in art school, I was taught how to forge steel, how to create molds, set/stage design (my major), pottery, sculpting, philosophy, how to create art with bacteria, etc... and probably the most important thing in todays art world how to talk the talk. You can be the best photographer, artist, electrician etc... if you don't talk the talk you're a nobody in some peoples opinion (personally hate it but it is a necessary evil).

Dominik

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Originally Posted by PKR

The 3 local art schools graduate about 200 kids per year with a BFA in Photography. I meet a number of these kids each year who are looking for work. Few get jobs in the photo world. But, what I find from talking with some, relating stories of classmates - many don't even pursue photography as "Artists" or as a serious hobby after graduation.

The Dept. Head at one school told me that most of his students have parents who are "well off". Many kids don't have the grades to get into a good academic school, so they end up in an Art School where many don't have a serious interest in Art. The serious students with talent find work. It's a very small percentage of the total graduating each year.

What kind of art schools are these? I went to Indiana University, which is a good academic university, for my BFA. Getting into IU is fairly easy; as a state university they don't set an arbitrary number of applicants to accept, unlike schools like Yale. Staying in the art program at IU is not, however, easy. Most of my classmates dropped out because the curriculum was too demanding. The fine art program there was really an academic degree in the humanities, where you also studied art. I had to take classes in history, philosophy, literature, science, and math. They were the same classes taken by people majoring in those areas, so they were not dumbed-down for art students.

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

Also, what does 'more capable' mean?

I was wondering that myself.

[DominikDUK]

At least in Austria it's a lot harder to get into an art school than a university. Acceptance tests etc... and as Chris said we had an academic program humaties + art + other things.
Those pooping at college/university education either never went to college/university and think in cliches and the other I don't know what their problem is.
Education is one of the most important things.

Dominik

[Seraj]

As someone preparing their portfolio to get into a BFA program (Applying to ASU, UofA, RIT, UWashington, UT-A, and UGA) I wish it were "easy" to get in. I have been on the deans list every semester at my current school and do pretty well and I am still not even sure Ill get into any of those schools much less the one I want to get into.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by DominikDUK

. . . Those pooping at college/university education either never went to college/university . . .

Dear Dominik,

Are you sure? I had a choice of art school (Coventry College of Art and Design) and law school (University of Birmingham), both with fairly stiff entry requirements, and I chose law. Yes, a degree in BS is useful, but the most important thing I learned at university, I learned in the bus on the way to the university on the first day. I met someone who was just finishing a postgraduate degree. He said, "University keeps the wolf from the door for a few years while you grow up."

A LOT of my friends didn't go to university, and that didn't necessarily mean that they missed out on education. All the smart ones missed out was the sausage machine.

Cheers,

R.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto

What kind of art schools are these? I went to Indiana University, which is a good academic university, for my BFA. Getting into IU is fairly easy; as a state university they don't set an arbitrary number of applicants to accept, unlike schools like Yale. Staying in the art program at IU is not, however, easy. Most of my classmates dropped out because the curriculum was too demanding. The fine art program there was really an academic degree in the humanities, where you also studied art. I had to take classes in history, philosophy, literature, science, and math. They were the same classes taken by people majoring in those areas, so they were not dumbed-down for art students.

Dear Chris,

No, they were equally dumbed down for everyone...

(Sorry: couldn't resist).

Cheers,

R.

[jtm6]

Originally Posted by Seraj

As someone preparing their portfolio to get into a BFA program (Applying to ASU, UofA, RIT, UWashington, UT-A, and UGA) I wish it were "easy" to get in.

I know what you mean but you really shouldn't want that. If the bar is low for you, the bar is low for everyone and that leads to a poor program. You want to go somewhere that challenges you and hopefully has peers that are better than you — one often learns more from peers than the instructors/program. IMHO, the worst thing is being the best student. Keep the bar raised for yourself. It goes both ways.

I have been on the deans list every semester at my current school and do pretty well and I am still not even sure Ill get into any of those schools much less the one I want to get into.

Don't be discouraged if you don't get accepted to some schools. There are many different reasons that can affect an applicant's acceptance. Sometimes it has nothing to do with the applicant.