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X-Pro2 with handheld meter?
Old 06-11-2017   #1
Landberg
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X-Pro2 with handheld meter?

Hi!
I have heard that the Fuji X series don't expose the same as other cameras. So if i would use a handheld meter it will not give the right exposure? I'm used to work with a handheld meter but sold it with my last Leica, i'm missing to shoot that way and want to try it with my x-pro2. But before i buy a new meter i was wondering if it will "work"?

Thanks!
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Old 06-11-2017   #2
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Can you borrow one and try it and see?

With best regards.

Pfreddee(Stephen)
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Old 06-11-2017   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfreddee View Post
Can you borrow one and try it and see?

With best regards.

Pfreddee(Stephen)
I have no friends that use one.
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Old 06-11-2017   #4
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Even if it doesn't translate exactly, it'll still be consistent (even if off by a 1/3 or 2/3 of a stop). Should be easy to compensate for.
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I'm curious?
Old 06-11-2017   #5
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I'm curious?

Dear Landberg,

I'm not being critical here but I do have to ask.

Why would you buy an automatic camera that offers full manual control and then decide that the camera's metering capabilities don't work?

I understand the idea of being in control but to me at least it seems like a waste of a camera?

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg, PA
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Old 06-11-2017   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Murphy View Post
Dear Landberg,

I'm not being critical here but I do have to ask.

Why would you buy an automatic camera that offers full manual control and then decide that the camera's metering capabilities don't work?

I understand the idea of being in control but to me at least it seems like a waste of a camera?

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg, PA
I guess it's just an old habit.. when I owned the M9 I used a handheld light meter to. I just shoot that way. I bought the X-Pro because I wanted a camera that has all the controls on the outside of the camera (can't afford the M10) I like to set my camera even when it isn't on, so that I am always prepared. To do that I use the sunny16 or a handheld meter. I don't use anything more than the ISO, shutter dial and aperture ring (so I need it to be outside the camera). I know that there is so much more to a modern digital camera but I don't need more.
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Old 06-11-2017   #7
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If you have a smart phone, try one of the light meter apps.
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That makes perfect sense to me - you should be scared
Old 06-11-2017   #8
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That makes perfect sense to me - you should be scared

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landberg View Post
I guess it's just an old habit.. when I owned the M9 I used a handheld light meter to. I just shoot that way. I bought the X-Pro because I wanted a camera that has all the controls on the outside of the camera (can't afford the M10) I like to set my camera even when it isn't on, so that I am always prepared. To do that I use the sunny16 or a handheld meter. I don't use anything more than the ISO, shutter dial and aperture ring (so I need it to be outside the camera). I know that there is so much more to a modern digital camera but I don't need more.
Dear Landberg,

Thank you for the explanation. It's obvious that old habits die hard for many people.

Take care and I hope you find a meter you're comfortable with using.

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg PA
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Old 06-11-2017   #9
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You say you have already purchased the XPro2. Presumably you have attempted to use it in manual mode using Sunny 16 or your hand held meter. It sounds like you are in the best position to know whether it works or not. So does it? My guess is that you'll find that Sunny 16 isn't all that accurate and the XPro2 will get the blame.
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Old 06-11-2017   #10
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If it's a stop or two off what you're used to, you can use the EV dial to compensate. I think this should work fine.
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Old 06-11-2017   #11
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Or just set the ISO higher on the meter.

Shawn
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Old 06-11-2017   #12
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He is shooting manual. How about just changing the aperture or shutter speed?
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Old 06-11-2017   #13
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http://www.aevansphoto.com/does_fuji_cheat_iso/
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Old 06-11-2017   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
You say you have already purchased the XPro2. Presumably you have attempted to use it in manual mode using Sunny 16 or your hand held meter. It sounds like you are in the best position to know whether it works or not. So does it? My guess is that you'll find that Sunny 16 isn't all that accurate and the XPro2 will get the blame.
Yeah when using sunny 16 it is a bit off. At first i thought that digital is more sensitive than film and that i need to be more spot on.
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Old 06-11-2017   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landberg View Post
Hi!
I have heard that the Fuji X series don't expose the same as other cameras. So if i would use a handheld meter it will not give the right exposure? I'm used to work with a handheld meter but sold it with my last Leica, i'm missing to shoot that way and want to try it with my x-pro2. But before i buy a new meter i was wondering if it will "work"?

Thanks!
For the record, I have never found my xpro1 or xpro2 to expose incorrectly. The histogram in the viewer has always produced the images I wanted and have been nice. Was the person who told you they expose oddly a non Fuji user?
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Old 06-11-2017   #16
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Found this!
https://photographylife.com/does-fuj...h-its-sensors/

I guess i'll buy a meter and just start testing!
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Old 06-11-2017   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrich View Post
For the record, I have never found my xpro1 or xpro2 to expose incorrectly. The histogram in the viewer has always produced the images I wanted and have been nice. Was the person who told you they expose oddly a non Fuji user?
Yes! When using the camera in aperture-mode or p-mode the camera does good exposure, also with the histogram. It just does not sync with a light meter.
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Old 06-11-2017   #18
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Exposure that was all over the place and not being able to use an external meter was one of the reasons I got rid of the xpro1. Fuji iso isn't what it should be. You cannot compensate with a single value as the compensation is different for each iso setting.
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Old 06-11-2017   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanik View Post
Exposure that was all over the place and not being able to use an external meter was one of the reasons I got rid of the xpro1. Fuji iso isn't what it should be. You cannot compensate with a single value as the compensation is different for each iso setting.
Thats what i am afraid off.
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Old 06-12-2017   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanik View Post
Fuji iso isn't what it should be.
Thats exactly the point, Fuji's are always around 1 stop off, so if the internal meter (as also other cameras) show ISO 100, the Fuji's shows ISO 200 for the same aperture settings. Probably a little marketing trick to get good DXO ratings.

No issue if you shoot with the internal meter in sense of correct exposure, but with external metering you should compensate.

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Old 06-12-2017   #21
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Are you capturing a scene or the correct exposure? All of this seems rather opposite of actually going out there and taking shots which seem to be what Fuji X cameras excel at.
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Old 06-12-2017   #22
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Have in mind that the ISO rating for digital cameras is different to the ISO/ASA of film and many times it is being calculated differently from camera maker to camera maker.
Each camera maker has standards of its own to assign ISO ratings to its sensor and thus one can have different readings for the same scene but with the same result from different cameras.
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Old 06-12-2017   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landberg View Post
Yes! When using the camera in aperture-mode or p-mode the camera does good exposure, also with the histogram. It just does not sync with a light meter.
While I realize you're accustomed to using a handheld meter, this is the practical solution when using the XPro.
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Old 06-12-2017   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landberg View Post
Yeah when using sunny 16 it is a bit off. At first i thought that digital is more sensitive than film and that i need to be more spot on.
It is not a bit off; Sunny 16 is a bit off.
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Old 06-12-2017   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landberg View Post
I guess i'll buy a meter and just start testing!
Why not use the XPro2 in one of the automatic modes and see how the exposure turns out before going to the expense of buying a light meter. I know you say you are in the habit of using a light meter, and old habits die hard, but how deep could the habit be if you don't even own a light meter.
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Old 06-12-2017   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landberg View Post
Found this!
https://photographylife.com/does-fuj...h-its-sensors/

I guess i'll buy a meter and just start testing!

Very interesting read... I was not aware of the 2/3 stop difference with Sony and Nikon. I now wonder how much variance there's from one comany to the other.

If the difference is constan, it'll be easy to compensate, but Spanik seems to indicate it's not.
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Old 06-12-2017   #27
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There's different standards to measure things...

I was very hot today, it was 30 degrees

Of course living in Europe I mean Celsius, not Fahrenheit, but you knew that right?!

The histogram is luminance only (like a great many cameras) which is -more or less- just the green channel

But the histogram and the 'what you see is what you get' nature of the EVF combined with a bit of experience should mean you can gague exposure ok

It might be worth setting exp bracketing up to give you a bit of leeway while you find your feet with it and work out which exposure works best with your workflow (some people like darker pictures!)
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You Don't Need A Hand-Held Light Meter
Old 06-13-2017   #28
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You Don't Need A Hand-Held Light Meter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landberg View Post
Hi!
I have heard that the Fuji X series don't expose the same as other cameras. So if i would use a handheld meter it will not give the right exposure? I'm used to work with a handheld meter but sold it with my last Leica, i'm missing to shoot that way and want to try it with my x-pro2. But before i buy a new meter i was wondering if it will "work"?

Thanks!
FUJIFILM cameras expose exactly the same way other cameras expose. What is different are the estimates of their in-camera light meter. In me experience, these differences can be unimportant.

With any digital camera it is important to maximize exposure. This maximizes the raw data's signal-to-nose ratio. SNR is the primary factor that determines an image's technical quality. Unnecessary underexposure always affects the shadow regions' quality most.

There are four basic steps to maximize exposure.

o Set the aperture to obtain the depth-of-field required for the photograph you envision.

o Select a shutter speed that freezes either camera and, or subject *motion as needed.

o Use the lowest ISO possible that's consistent with the exposure parameters determined in the previous steps. Electronic stabilization or a tripod provide more exposure parameter flexibility.

o Finally, fine tune either aperture or shutter speed to retain only the interesting or important highlights in all three channels. This means some highlights may intentionally be overexposed. If every highlight region must be recorded, the shadow regions’ S/N will suffer.

The last step is where a light meter is convenient. An initial exposure estimate can make optimizing the shutter and, or aperture times more efficient. But that estimate is just a starting point.

Rather than worry about a how well the light meter maps to the sensor and, or ADC maximum possible signal levels, just automatically bracket the aperture setting. Then you can pick the best exposure and delete the others. I usually do this in post production because in-camera image viewing and histograms can be highly dependent on in-camera JPEG rendering parameters.

I have used four different FUJIFILM X-Series bodies. I found the in-camera light meter provides an reliable initial meter estimate. Based on this estimate I use manual exposure mode and autobracket three shots in -1/3, 0, +1/3 aperture steps. I use the image where the important highlight regions are retained.

Honestly, at least 3/4 of the time I choose the 0 bracket exposure from the set of three.
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Old 06-13-2017   #29
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There's another non-technical reason to use a handheld meter if you are shooting people. It slows things down and engages you with the subject. Its a touch of old school which can work in your favor. Just like setting up strobes to impress your client and then opting for natural light anyway. Or using a Rolleiflex when you know that an XPro2 at 200 iso will give you about the same quality.
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Old 06-13-2017   #30
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The image off the EVF will create a much better exposure than even a meter will. Just use the EVF, you can place your skin tones right where they need to be.
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Old 06-13-2017   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mod2001 View Post
Thats exactly the point, Fuji's are always around 1 stop off, so if the internal meter (as also other cameras) show ISO 100, the Fuji's shows ISO 200 for the same aperture settings. Probably a little marketing trick to get good DXO ratings.
That's the same experience I had with an X-E2, and the same conclusion I came to.
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Old 06-14-2017   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mod2001 View Post
Thats exactly the point, Fuji's are always around 1 stop off, so if the internal meter (as also other cameras) show ISO 100, the Fuji's shows ISO 200 for the same aperture settings. Probably a little marketing trick to get good DXO ratings.

No issue if you shoot with the internal meter in sense of correct exposure, but with external metering you should compensate.

Yogi
Fuji's ISO standard that denotes 200 is about 160 in a different currency

DXO don't test Fuji

Fuji cameras are aware of their own metering methods, if the EVF/histogram is indicating a correct exposure (give of take the limitations of a luminance only histogram - which is hardly a Fuji only thing) then that's what you'll get, a correct exposure

Like temperate, it's either hot or cold, it's not important if you present that data in F or C degrees
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Old 06-14-2017   #33
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Just overexpose by a third then if inclined? Best to just leave it alone!
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Old 06-14-2017   #34
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Man, this thread makes me very happy that I am happy with Fuji's metering and that I don't overthink this.
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Old 06-14-2017   #35
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Man, this thread makes me very happy that I am happy with Fuji's metering and that I don't overthink this.
+1

amen to that
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Old 06-14-2017   #36
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+1



amen to that


+1

me too
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Old 06-14-2017   #37
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This, like so many other questions and comments I see or hear about exposure, seems pointless if not actually ill formed. Although cameras are much more mechanically consistent than they were back in the days when they were all mechanical there's still sample variation in shuttet speeds, sensor response, lens magnification, aperture size and lens transmission ability (glass absorbs and reflects light so transmission is not necessarily consistent across lenses even if the aperture is identical) to make it difficult to answer this question definitely without a much more well thought out test program than I've ever seen anyone implement. For my purposes, I've never noticed a problem with Fuji cameras or had unexpected results as a result of guessing exposure. People who are more particular than I am in their need for precise repeatability in exposure do what Adams instructed everyone to do as the first step of the zone system -- precisely calibrate every step of your workflow using all of your equipment so that you know exactly what you will get every time you press the shutter button. People who expect more precision than I expect who do not do this are people who will spend their lives being frustrated and it will be their own fault.
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Old 06-14-2017   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHutchins View Post
This, like so many other questions and comments I see or hear about exposure, seems pointless if not actually ill formed. Although cameras are much more mechanically consistent than they were back in the days when they were all mechanical there's still sample variation in shuttet speeds, sensor response, lens magnification, aperture size and lens transmission ability (glass absorbs and reflects light so transmission is not necessarily consistent across lenses even if the aperture is identical) to make it difficult to answer this question definitely without a much more well thought out test program than I've ever seen anyone implement.
Taken together, how much variation do you think there is? One stop? Two stops? Enough to matter?
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Old 06-14-2017   #39
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I would suggest just shooting the camera and compensating after reviewing the shot. It is digital btw . If you must use a light meter I have had very good results using the iPhone Apps with both film and digital, However they will not do flash.
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Old 06-14-2017   #40
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Man, this thread makes me very happy that I am happy with Fuji's metering and that I don't overthink this.
Add me to that list.
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