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90 millimeters
Old 01-11-2013   #1
WJJ3
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90 millimeters

Are people using this focal length on their RF's? The longest lens I see people talking about on this forum is 50mm.

I have been using a 90mm ROKKOR M (CLE version) to compliment my 35mm lens and like the results I get. It probably only sees about 10% use compared to the 35, but for the times when I see a tele composition, i'm glad it's in my bag. I like this particular lens because it is small, ergonomically really nice, and i've got the filter threads stepped down to 39 so I can use the same filters as on my 35.

If you shoot a 90, it would be great to know which one, how much in comparison to your 'main' lens, and to see some shots from it. here's a couple from the ROKKOR (please excuse the poor scan quality):





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Old 01-11-2013   #2
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I've got the thin Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8 made in Canada. It's not much larger than the Rokkor 90/4 you mention. My experience is very similar to yours - I don't use it much but when the composition asks for a short telephoto, I'm glad I've got it.
BTW I don't think I could focus anything faster or longer on a .72 M6.
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Old 01-11-2013   #3
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I shoot my Macro Elmar 90mm for about 10% of my photos. Always bring it on trips because of the size and quality. For landscape, city scape, portraits, and architectual detail shots...the 90mm length is irreplaceable.


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Old 01-11-2013   #4
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I had the 90mm f4 for a small time, wasn't too happy with it.
replaced it with the 10.5cm f2.5 Nikkor.
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Old 01-11-2013   #5
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Current 90 is a 90 tele elmarit m. Don't use it as much as I used to but usually travel with a 35 and 90. It is small, sharp, and relative cheap for a Leica lens. Find it great for landscapes.
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Old 01-11-2013   #6
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Iīm hunting for a 4,0 90mm Tele Arton for my Retina IIIs.
the 50mm is allways a bit to short and the 135mm to long - a 75mm would be my dream.
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Old 01-11-2013   #7
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I have too many RF teles (75, 85, 2x90, 100, 105), and find them very important.

Summilux 75/1.4:



Summicron 90/2 v3 (both):





Elmarit 90/2.8 v1:



Minimum combo for me is 35 + tele (one of the above ....).

BTW, optically, it doesn't get much better than your 90/4 CLE Rokkor (have that, too).

Roland.
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Old 01-11-2013   #8
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My 1968 Summicron 90mm is probably my favorite lens. I also have a 135 Elmarit.
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Old 01-11-2013   #9
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looks like people are shooting this focal length. Nice examples here.

The thin Tele Elmarit seems to be popular. That lens is really appealing to me because it seems to have the same form factor as the ROKKOR, and twice as bright. Also the fat Tele Elmarit looks quite nice ergonomically. I wonder if anyone here shoots it?

Kokoshawnuff: I had been wondering if the Macro Elmar works on the M3. Do you get the full macro range?

Filmtwit: what didn't you like about the 90? F4 too slow?

Roland: great shots! Thanks for those. Yeah, the optical quality of the ROKKOR seems to be great, even wide open. I actually like the small amount of vignetting wide open because it matches the vignetting I get with my 35mm lens. I really need to make some better scans of my sample images.
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Old 01-11-2013   #10
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I had a 90 cron pre-asph E55 for a while.
90mm is the max focal length i would use on a 0.72VF.
I think it will be nice to use it on a M3 or M6 0.85VF
Nothing much to complain about the lens optically but just a little too big and heavy for me.
I sold it as I seldom use it and a bokeh-crazy-lens-collector offered a great price (double what i paid for) for my mint copy.
I don't miss the lens at all.
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Old 01-11-2013   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nottoohairy View Post
Kokoshawnuff: I had been wondering if the Macro Elmar works on the M3. Do you get the full macro range?
They used to sell the lens and adapter separately, so I was able to purchase the lens without the macro adapter. Even without the adapter, being able to focus to the minimum .77m with a 90mm can fill a full frame quite nicely. Not to mention that, assuming you don't need the speed, its one of the three highest performing leica lenses available (APO cron 90, APO Telyt 135 being the others)

As for the M3, the adapter will work. But I also have bent my minimum focus 'limiter' (not an exact process or guaranteed outcome) it now focuses to exactly .77m, so at least I can use my MEM on all my cameras.
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Old 01-11-2013   #12
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For a time my 90 Elmarit M was in the bag all the time. Now it's displaced often by the 21. Wouldn't want to be without it though and some of the pictures are heart stoppingly sharp and have a certain special quality. This is one of my favourites, just at home:



Annual beach holiday landscape (seascape):


Lorne, Victoria by Richard GM2, on Flickr

Aerial shot from the plane coming in to Melbourne from Christchurch May 2009: Elmarit M 90, Fuji Superia 200 (Boeing filter);


Melbourne by Richard GM2, on Flickr
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Old 01-11-2013   #13
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I use the original chrome 90mm Elmarit; the thin tele-Elmarit; the CV 75/2.5; and the 75mm Summicron. These days the thin T-E gets more use than the larger chrome Elmarit. I think enough of the 90mm Elmarit that I also have the R version, converted to Nikon mount. I like the 0.72 finder for these lenses, although I will use them on the 0.58 if that's what I'm shooting at the time.
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Old 01-12-2013   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokoshawnuff View Post
They used to sell the lens and adapter separately, so I was able to purchase the lens without the macro adapter. Even without the adapter, being able to focus to the minimum .77m with a 90mm can fill a full frame quite nicely. Not to mention that, assuming you don't need the speed, its one of the three highest performing leica lenses available (APO cron 90, APO Telyt 135 being the others)

As for the M3, the adapter will work. But I also have bent my minimum focus 'limiter' (not an exact process or guaranteed outcome) it now focuses to exactly .77m, so at least I can use my MEM on all my cameras.
The Macro Elmar without the macro adapter looks like a sweet general purpose lens. Glad to hear your M3 focus mod is working well.

Richard G: thanks for your samples. The flower vase shot is wonderful, and is a great example of tele use indoors.

Rob-F: thats interesting to hear you use your teles with your .58 finder. I have only looked through a .58 finder once, but remember thinking it would be very usable with a 75mm.
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Old 01-12-2013   #15
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Interessing!
Only Leica user seem to use 90mm on their RF.
Why?
There are so many good old RF with interchangable lenses out there with the possibility to use lenses around 90mm - nobody does it?
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Old 01-12-2013   #16
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Elmar-C 90mm f/4
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Old 01-12-2013   #17
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How different optically is the Elmar M 90mm f4 compared to the Elmar-C 90mm
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Old 01-12-2013   #18
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Boris -- wow. That's the 90mm I got (Elmar-C : Viva!) but I'm thinking that's some digital action I'm seeing.

LXmike -- Irwin Puts is your man here. He says the Elmar-C is better than any Leica 90mm in the f/2.8 and f/4 categories up until its time; it's the equal of the Tele Elmarit of 1973; and is surpassed by the Elmarit M 90/2.8 of 1990 and everything after. Most of the later Summicrons are better too. But the degree of betterness if you look at the MTF charts for f/5.6 is pretty slim. The differences are in the sharpness and contrast at the very edges. Of course the later lenses: The Summicron ASPH and the Elmar Macro and the Summarit 90s -- are in a whole new league, and cost it. (See Leica Compendium: the Company, the Cameras, the Lenses, Erwin Puts, 2011.)
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Old 01-12-2013   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyderman View Post
I've got the thin Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8 made in Canada. It's not much larger than the Rokkor 90/4 you mention. My experience is very similar to yours - I don't use it much but when the composition asks for a short telephoto, I'm glad I've got it.
I'll second that. I've got the same lens. When it's the right lens, it couldn't be more right.


Flowers, December 13, 2012 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


Michael, December 04, 2012 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


The Flying Dutchman, March 30, 2011 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


1983 '62RI Fender Stratocaster, January, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


Quine Telecaster Switches And Knobs, January, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr


Dad, September, 2009 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr

Perfect for portraits of any kind.
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Old 01-12-2013   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BW400CN View Post
Interessing!
Only Leica user seem to use 90mm on their RF.
Why?
There are so many good old RF with interchangable lenses out there with the possibility to use lenses around 90mm - nobody does it?
The 90mm has been a leica lineup since the early 30s, and when the time came 'everyone' else (most RF camera makers) went with the 85mm. So ultimately I think it has to do with frame line compatibility. 85 frames can be used with 90 lenses and vice versa, but I think tradition tends to keep 90mm with Leica and 85mm with those cameras that have the proper frame lines.
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Old 01-12-2013   #21
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Stunning black and white mountain landsacpes Boris.
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Old 01-12-2013   #22
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E46 Elmarit-M w/ sliding hood





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Old 01-13-2013   #23
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Here's a couple of recent shots from my M8 and my 1968 vintage Summicron 90.


L1004098 by chief1120, on Flickr


L1004043 by chief1120, on Flickr
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Old 01-13-2013   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BW400CN View Post
Interessing!
Only Leica user seem to use 90mm on their RF.
Why?
There are so many good old RF with interchangable lenses out there with the possibility to use lenses around 90mm - nobody does it?
There are really good non Leica short teles, and cameras fitting them, too. For example, I find my Canon P 1:1 finder with 100mm framelines great for use with the Canon 100/3.5 or Nikkor 105/2.5. Then again, I find it easy to frame 85, 90, 100 and 105 all with the Leica M 90mm framelines. Remember that teles get "much longer" at close focus. For example, at 1m, an 90mm lens has a true focal length of 98.9mm.

A couple more shots (all posted a while ago on RFF):

Nikkor 85/2 LTM:



Hexanon 90/2.8:



Summicron 90/2 v3:



Roland.
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Old 01-13-2013   #25
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I love my 90 Summicron, though it needs to be sent in for service. I use it mainly for portraits.





Coupled with Leica M8.2


Best,
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Old 01-13-2013   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferider View Post

Summicron 90/2 v3:



Roland.
This is gorgeous ! I can almost hear the sound of that secene.
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Old 01-13-2013   #27
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Thank you, Klaus !

OP: if you are interested in a size comparison, from all the teles that I tried, these are the ones I kept (for now ), and use more or less regularly:



1) CLE 90/4 (your lens)
2) Canon 100/3.5
3) Summilux 75/1.4
4) Summicron 90/2 v3
5) Nikkor 85/2
6) Nikkor 105/2.5
7) Komura 80/1.8

Note that 4, 5, 6, 7 are Sonnar and Ernostar designs, which I love.

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Old 01-13-2013   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokoshawnuff View Post
The 90mm has been a leica lineup since the early 30s, and when the time came 'everyone' else (most RF camera makers) went with the 85mm. So ultimately I think it has to do with frame line compatibility. 85 frames can be used with 90 lenses and vice versa, but I think tradition tends to keep 90mm with Leica and 85mm with those cameras that have the proper frame lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferider View Post
There are really good non Leica short teles, and cameras fitting them, too. For example, I find my Canon P 1:1 finder with 100mm framelines great for use with the Canon 100/3.5 or Nikkor 105/2.5. Then again, I find it easy to frame 85, 90, 100 and 105 all with the Leica M 90mm framelines. Remember that teles get "much longer" at close focus. For example, at 1m, an 90mm lens has a true focal length of 98.9mm.
good points here. it looks like different makers chose slightly different focal lengths for their short teles. Perhaps '85-105 millimeters' would have been more appropriate for the thread title.

It looks like people are indeed using them as well. Some really nice photography here with a wide range of subject matter. The strengths of this focal length in landscape and portraiture can't be denied, but its use for still life and candid is becoming more clear as well...

This is stunning:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferider View Post
Summicron 90/2 v3:



Roland.
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Old 01-13-2013   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferider View Post
Thank you, Klaus !

OP: if you are interested in a size comparison, from all the teles that I tried, these are the ones I kept (for now ), and use more or less regularly:



1) CLE 90/4 (your lens)
2) Canon 100/3.5
3) Summilux 75/1.4
4) Summicron 90/2 v3
5) Nikkor 85/2
6) Nikkor 105/2.5
7) Komura 80/1.8

Note that 4, 5, 6, 7 are Sonnar and Ernostar designs, which I love.

Roland.
Interesting. Big differences in size and form factor here. The Summicron is a beast! The size and shape of the Cannon looks great in comparison. I wonder if it handles as nicely as the ROKKOR?
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Old 01-13-2013   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyjoe View Post
I love my 90 Summicron, though it needs to be sent in for service. I use it mainly for portraits.





Coupled with Leica M8.2


Best,
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Tim these are lovely, and its interesting to see you use a Leica as a portrait camera.
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Old 01-13-2013   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
Stunning black and white mountain landsacpes Boris.
Thank you Vince and Richard, you are very kind! I guess the credit should go to the guy in the lab who scanned the negs and processed it My scans usually are crap because my scanner is, but the wet prints looks identically good, thanks God
The one with the heart in the lake I made for Dave Lackey - somehow a few seconds before I spotted that heart I thought about him

So many great shots here, I should use the 90mm more I guess.
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Old 01-14-2013   #32
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Even older ones work very good, albeit showing some back-focus at the far end (> 10 m).
This shot wasn't on a Leica body!

This is a pre-1970 Elmar-M 9cm/F4. Here at 1/30s f11 on Fujicolor C200.
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Old 01-15-2013   #33
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90mm telelmarit, my favorite. I have the version that was made in the 80's, still super sharp. I am okay with the trade of between aperture and compactness. It is even smaller than my 50mm summilux

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Old 01-18-2013   #34
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I absolutely love the offerings in the ~90mm range of fast RF coupled lenses. I use them on Leica M bodies, because an old M6 just happened to have been the camera, that started my love for RF cameras.

Canon 100 ƒ2 LTM:

@ƒ2 during the night:

Le Mans 24h 2012 - no.43 Extreme Limite Aric - Norma MP2000 - Judd by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

stopped down ~ƒ8:

Le Mans 24h 2012 - no.79 Flying Lizard Motorsports - Porsche 911 GT3 RSR by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

Nikkor 8.5cm ƒ1.5 LTM:


portrait - JC - table - color by teknopunk.com, on Flickr


unknown girl by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

90 f2.8 Elmarit-M:


rainy day - fish by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

Carl Zeiss Jupiter 85/2 ;-)


8.5cm f2 Carl Zeiss Jupiter-9 - crossing street by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

My favourite long lenses in the ~90mm range are:

Canon 100/2 LTM and Nikkor 85/1.5 LTM

My favourite lightweight/ compact short tele (but reaching 90mm) is the 75/2.5 Voigtlander - marvellous lens for the money!
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Old 01-19-2013   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menos View Post
I absolutely love the offerings in the ~90mm range of fast RF coupled lenses. I use them on Leica M bodies, because an old M6 just happened to have been the camera, that started my love for RF cameras.

Canon 100 ƒ2 LTM:

@ƒ2 during the night:

Le Mans 24h 2012 - no.43 Extreme Limite Aric - Norma MP2000 - Judd by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

stopped down ~ƒ8:

Le Mans 24h 2012 - no.79 Flying Lizard Motorsports - Porsche 911 GT3 RSR by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

Nikkor 8.5cm ƒ1.5 LTM:


portrait - JC - table - color by teknopunk.com, on Flickr


unknown girl by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

90 f2.8 Elmarit-M:


rainy day - fish by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

Carl Zeiss Jupiter 85/2 ;-)


8.5cm f2 Carl Zeiss Jupiter-9 - crossing street by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

My favourite long lenses in the ~90mm range are:

Canon 100/2 LTM and Nikkor 85/1.5 LTM

My favourite lightweight/ compact short tele (but reaching 90mm) is the 75/2.5 Voigtlander - marvellous lens for the money!
great! thanks for showing your examples. Looks like the physical size of the lens has not kept you from shooting teles on your RF. I really like 'crossing street'!
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Old 01-21-2013   #36
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No not at all - I never really understood what all this "This or that lens is too big this or too heavy that on a Rangefinder camera."

It's like somebody is stating that this T-shirt is too blue or too green to be used in summer …

I do love the longer RF lenses exactly for what they are: damn fast and incredibly small and compact ;-)

Here is one lens I liked less recently - a 90 Summicron pre ASPH (once a favourite of mine, but I prefer the Japanese lenses in this focal length now over the Summicron):


flowers on wheels by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

I started to shoot more and more longer lenses on Leica M, since I travel every year to Le Mans.
Only the Leica M system allows me, to take two bodies and so many different lenses into a small messenger bag and not break my back.
I couldn't dream of shooting a DSLR system and travel in good health that way.
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Old 01-22-2013   #37
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managed to dig up my old pix...

Elmarit 90/f2.8 chrome on the CL





M4P with Elmarit 90/f2.8




Lastly Hassy 150mm lens (well, 90mm in 35mm format ):

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Old 01-22-2013   #38
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I have the Elmar-C, and like you, I use it rarely, but I'm glad it's in the bag. This spring, I'll be getting out into the vineyards here in Sonoma County, and I think it will see much more use then. That type of travel photography is the reason I bought it.

McDonald house Elmar-C 90mm by Victor Ross, on Flickr
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Old 01-22-2013   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BW400CN View Post
Interessing!
Only Leica user seem to use 90mm on their RF.
Why?
There are so many good old RF with interchangable lenses out there with the possibility to use lenses around 90mm - nobody does it?
I'd use an 85 on my Contax IIIa, but with the Elmar-C on the M3, I can't justify the expense.
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Old 01-22-2013   #40
Timmyjoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nottoohairy View Post
Tim these are lovely, and its interesting to see you use a Leica as a portrait camera.
Thank you.

99% of what I shoot with my Leicas are people shots. And when doing somewhat more of a "formal" portrait, I usually reach for the 90 cron.

Best,
-Tim
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