Old 06-12-2017   #201
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Just got word from Leica, both my MM1 and M9 will have a new sensor. The timeframe is of little interest to me, I still have the M240, DMR and my Panasonic gear, not to mention several other options like M6, M3. iiif, etc.
Let them eat cake?
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Old 06-12-2017   #202
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I asked Leica NJ for an update today. I was originally told to expect a 12 week turnaround when I sent the camera in this March. Mine is still in line, and they've updated that estimate to 20 weeks. So, maybe 2 or 3 more months wait for a camera they've had for 3 months. I sent my Monochrom in before the updated policy was announced. At least they responded to my email in the same day...
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Old 06-12-2017   #203
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Leica goes back on their word. What a surprise.

I am following all the rules and now when mine fails, the cost is on me.
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Old 06-12-2017   #204
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I took the recommended blue-sky shots this AM with my M9 and 90mm thin tele-Elmarit. Both shots are at f/16. The first one is exposed with the "A" setting, for normal exposure:





And this one is underexposed more than one stop, as per the directions:





All I see is a tiny, tiny black spot that I guess could be a dust speck. It's left of center, a little above the middle. Should I still send it for a sensor clean and check?

I wonder if my sensor had already been replaced before I bought it? Probably not. Would Leica NJ know?
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Old 06-12-2017   #205
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If the sensor has been replaced, Leica will have the serial number on record. If you can shift the spot it is dust, if you can't, it might be corrosion. If you are not sure, send it in.
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Old 06-12-2017   #206
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Let them eat cake?
Brioche, my friend, Brioche.
I think the number of forum members with just one camera is extremely small.
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Old 06-13-2017   #207
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I found that making large prints revealed my corrosion. Even on an dimmed down EIZO the brightness of the monitor did not reveal the artifacts or make them abundantly apparent, and of course not all prints displayed artifacts. I only thought I had corrosion because I print a lot and I tend to print big, but over time the locations of suspected corrosion became evident and consistent in location. Know that I lived with these artifacts over a two year period.

Another thing is that wet cleaning with a Visible Dust system did not improve or change the location or shape of the suspected corrosion. Basically the appearance of artifact was intermitent and depended on the image. I would not feel certain I did not have corrosion by just stopping down and doing the sky test. A simple test is just that.

I am very aware that when using my Visible Dust magnifier that has a ring of LED's to inspect my sensor I could not see any defect.

I hope this is helpful. When in doubt I would just send in your camera.

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Old 06-13-2017   #208
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Seeing this, I just phoned and was told that they received my MM on the 24th of May. It will get a sensor and the estimated return likely 24 weeks!
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Old 06-13-2017   #209
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Seeing this, I just phoned and was told that they received my MM on the 24th of May. It will get a sensor and the estimated return likely 24 weeks!
Just buy another camera and lenses to use while you are waiting.
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Old 06-13-2017   #210
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Just buy another camera and lenses to use while you are waiting.

Agree 100%

If you can afford a $5000 Leica, you would be foolish not to have a different system ready for when it breaks.

You think that people who own Ferraris don't also have a little Fiat in the garage. Oh wait, not a good example for a reliable back up..
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Old 06-13-2017   #211
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Agree 100%

If you can afford a $5000 Leica, you would be foolish not to have a different system ready for when it breaks.

You think that people who own Ferraris don't also have a little Fiat in the garage. Oh wait, not a good example for a reliable back up..
Some people have a whole garage full of Ferraris, that's a better plan.

Actually, the sensor issue was a factor in my getting another digital M as I had a feeling that my M-E was going to be at Leica for a while.

I hope the Leica Germany gets the message how slow things are in New Jersey and does something about it.

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Old 06-13-2017   #212
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Some people have a whole garage full of Ferraris, that's a better plan.

Actually, the sensor issue was a factor in my getting another digital M as I had a feeling that my M-E was going to be at Leica for a while.

I hope the Leica Germany gets the message how slow things are in New Jersey and does something about it.

Joe
I replaced my M-E with an M240 because I had a bad feeling about this.
I think Leica switching to the CMOS sensor allowed for a more reliable camera. Unfortunately losing that CCD look.
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Old 06-13-2017   #213
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Some people have a whole garage full of Ferraris, that's a better plan.

Joe
Joe,

You know me: no car, but mucho cameras.

My 84 Scrambler that I put a Corvette engine into was not a reliable. Broke a valve spring once and had them all replaced when it happen again.

Ever break an axel in a loaded down Jeep and loose a rear wheel and three wheel down an interstate in Ohio at 65 mph while skidding on the backing plate for your brakes sending up a roostertail of sparks at night?

For me it is much safer owning cameras. LOL.

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Old 06-13-2017   #214
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I replaced my M-E with an M240 because I had a bad feeling about this.
I think Leica switching to the CMOS sensor allowed for a more reliable camera. Unfortunately losing that CCD look.
Huss,

In my case I bought a SL to tie me over. Now I luckily am happy with both my digital Leicas (MM and SL).

Sorry to hear that you kinda had to do a forced move to protect yourself from owning a time bomb.

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Old 06-13-2017   #215
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It worked out for me Cal as I have found the LiveView feature really useful for adapting all sorts of lenses. And it allowed me to dump my collection of accessory viewfinders that I had to use with various lenses (18, 21, 24 etc) as they were no longer needed.
(Of course I still have those for my film Leicas)
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Old 06-13-2017   #216
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It worked out for me Cal as I have found the LiveView feature really useful for adapting all sorts of lenses. And it allowed me to dump my collection of accessory viewfinders that I had to use with various lenses (18, 21, 24 etc) as they were no longer needed.
(Of course I still have those for my film Leicas)
Huss,

Glad you got kind of a consolation prize, but I know if I was in your situation I would be pretty upset and mucho annoyed.

It does seem like many have mucho excess cameras to fall back on, but it is still painful to be without a favored camera.

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Old 06-13-2017   #217
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Time to get out of your M9's..and buy an M10..
..surprised Leica doesn't offer a good discount on M10 for M9 owners..even at a long wait time..that would go a long way to easing the pain of potentially owning a defective camera..
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Old 06-13-2017   #218
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Time to get out of your M9's..and buy an M10..
..surprised Leica doesn't offer a good discount on M10 for M9 owners..even at a long wait time..that would go a long way to easing the pain of potentially owning a defective camera..
I think the waiting list for the M10 is even longer than the repair waiting list for the M9...

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wait time
Old 06-13-2017   #219
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wait time

I sent my monochrom in to New Jersey for a sensor replacement two weeks ago and never heard from them about receiving it. I called them this morning and they had it, whew, and was told it would be from 18 to 24 weeks. Glad I have other cameras!
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Old 06-13-2017   #220
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I think the waiting list for the M10 is even longer than the repair waiting list for the M9...

(remember when we used to talk about tuna?)
Luv them Tuna days...lol!
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Old 06-14-2017   #221
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I'm glad that at the end I decided (with a little help from my wife LOL) to go for the M10 instead of that pre owned ME I had seen by my dealer a few weeks earlier !
Of course I understand the disappointment of owner of cameras with sensor still to be replaced.
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Old 06-14-2017   #222
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I'm glad that at the end I decided (with a little help from my wife LOL) to go for the M10 instead of that pre owned ME I had seen by my dealer a few weeks earlier !
Of course I understand the disappointment of owner of cameras with sensor still to be replaced.
robert
Robert,

You are a lucky M10 owner. The wait on this camera is mucho big also.

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Old 06-14-2017   #223
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yes, I'm lucky! If I hadn't driven through Wetzlar and visited the Leica shop things had been different...
rob
PS: waiting time was 3/4 weeks...
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Old 06-14-2017   #224
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yes, I'm lucky! If I hadn't driven through Wetzlar and visited the Leica shop things had been different...
rob
PS: waiting time was 3/4 weeks...
Robert,

Going to Wetzlar kinda was like cutting the line. LOL.

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Old 06-14-2017   #225
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Well just got a $0 estimate for Leica NJ, so now to see how long the sensor replacement takes...

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Old 06-17-2017   #226
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How can I make sure that Leica NJ will actually take care of the M9 free of charge before sending in my M9? I have asked Markus Limberger (Leica AG Wetzlar) to send me something in writing that I can pass on to Leica NJ.
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Old 06-18-2017   #227
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Raid, you can't be certain because they have to inspect it first. If it's corroded they have already stated in writing they will fix it at no charge until August. If it needs other work they will quote the cost and notify you for a decision.

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Old 06-18-2017   #228
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This makes sense, John.

Thanks.
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Old 06-18-2017   #229
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Personally, if I had an M9-series camera with original sensor that was approaching five years old, I would send it in regardless. I don't know their inspection method, but I assume it's way more sophisticated than the blue sky, naked eye test that we would perform.

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Old 06-18-2017   #230
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Personally, if I had an M9-series camera with original sensor that was approaching five years old, I would send it in regardless. I don't know their inspection method, but I assume it's way more sophisticated than the blue sky, naked eye test that we would perform.

John

"... we would like to remind you that the replacement of CCD sensors and the upgrade offers apply only to cameras confirmed to be affected by this problem, and only to the models of the Leica M-System we have listed above. Preventive replacement of sensors is not included in this program."
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Old 06-18-2017   #231
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If the sensor is still good..they just kiss the camera..and send it right back to you...lol..
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Old 06-18-2017   #232
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"... we would like to remind you that the replacement of CCD sensors and the upgrade offers apply only to cameras confirmed to be affected by this problem, and only to the models of the Leica M-System we have listed above. Preventive replacement of sensors is not included in this program."
What I was suggesting is that perhaps they can detect the start of corrosion before it becomes evident in our blue sky test.

John
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Old 06-18-2017   #233
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Without any knowledge of this change, I sold my M9 and Monochrom a few weeks ago, but if I still had them I'd be inclined to submit them for checking. The M9 had a replacement original sensor just before the switchover.

It's difficult - Leica are still offering a 5 year warranty on cameras that would otherwise be out of warranty. However, the potential cost of a fix may be viewed as quite high in the secondhand market. On the other hand, so are other camera repairs to old film bodies.
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Old 06-18-2017   #234
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What I was suggesting is that perhaps they can detect the start of corrosion before it becomes evident in our blue sky test.

John
Let's say they say no corrosion. August 15 passes. August 16 rolls around and corrosion has reared it's head. $1000 please.
And all because Leica went back on its word.
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Old 06-19-2017   #235
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I just sent my M9 to Leica this past weekend. I had called Leica a couple of weeks ago and they emailed me a UPS prepaid mailer to use. As I drove to the UPS facility to drop off the camera, I was wondering how much I should pay to insure it and what I should use as the insured value. At the UPS store, I was told if I decided to insure it, I would have to pay both for the insurance and the cost to ship it to Leica, that, in effect, my prepaid mailer could not be used if I wanted to add insurance to it. I was pondering what to do, but finally decided to just use the mailer and send it off to Leica. I trust it will arrive OK. It is scheduled to arrive on Tuesday as the Leica provided mailer was for UPS 2nd day Air so I should find out soon if it got there OK. I look forward to hearing from Leica how long it will take and if there is any sensor corrosion.
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Old 06-19-2017   #236
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I would say that if Leica has the camera collected the responsibility for its safety goes to Leica. I'm sure they would be liable for loss or damage in transit, unless they can pin it on UPS. It is quite likely that the eventuality is covered by their contract with UPS.
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Old 06-19-2017   #237
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I noticed the insurance thing when I sent my M9 in, as jaap said its up to Leica if it did get lost they would probably just send you another M9.
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Old 06-19-2017   #238
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I should call up Leica NJ today.
Should I just ask them "to check the M9 and its sensor" or is there something specific that I should ask for, and will they by themselves offer to send me a pre-paid UPS mailer or should I ask for it ?

Thanks.
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Old 06-19-2017   #239
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I should call up Leica NJ today.
Should I just ask them "to check the M9 and its sensor" or is there something specific that I should ask for, and will they by themselves offer to send me a pre-paid UPS mailer or should I ask for it ?

Thanks.
Raid,

I did what Ellen did last December. They gave me a shipping label, and as I remember it covered and included insurance but it was only valued at $1K.

I was told 8-10 weeks, but the turnaround was in reality 12 weeks. Understand this was right before the holidays and I believe there is a holiday/New Year shut down.

I would do what Ellen did, and be prepared for the long wait.

For me the long wait was worth it. Basically I got my camera factory overhauled and upgraded. I am pleased, and know my camera was used very heavily for 5 years. I bought it new. The top and bottom plates are worn into silver along the edges, but my camra came back with new leatherette.

Good Luck.

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Old 06-19-2017   #240
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Well, I'm following Ellen's experience to see how this all progresses for her. I'm pretty lost as to exactly what I should do. But I'm going to send my M9 in, that's for sure. Do I call or email? What number or email address?

I'm actually not too upset that I may be without my M9 for an extended period of time, but more about the possibility that I send my camera to Leica, and they say it's clean with no corrosion, then send back my ticking time bomb. If that happens, I'll be left with a $1000-plus repair bill at some point in the future. That is, unless I get corrosion, detect it, and send the camera back to Leica all before August (how likely is this?) .

So to expand why I'm upset: I have been very careful with my camera to avoid exposing it to humid situations. Explicitly, my thinking has been that I should embrace my responsibility to protect my camera from corrosion-inducing conditions and Leica will appreciate my considerate behavior when the sensor eventually needs to be addressed. Suddenly, it feels like the opposite is true.
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