Old 02-03-2017   #121
robert blu
quiet photographer
 
robert blu's Avatar
 
robert blu is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Italy
Age: 68
Posts: 4,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone View Post

At the NYC Meet-Up I frequently bring out folios of prints, many large, and this Sunday at the February NYC Meet-Up/Camera Circus I will be bringing the print I am writing about to the Meet-Up to give to someone as a prize for a bring out a cool camera. If you want to see it come to Lorelie's on Rivington this Sunday.

Cal
One day I'll jump on a plane to join one of your meetings...
robert
PS: if money and your president will be not a problem ...
__________________
Remember: today is the Day !
from Ruth Bernhard recipe for a long and happy life


my quiet photographer's blog


My RFF photos and my albums on RFF
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-03-2017   #122
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by brennanphotoguy View Post
I got a raise (and a better job) buying for the Used Dept in the Navy Yard about 18 months ago. I'm moving to Nashville in March and working for Musea doing print/mat work and color correcting for Indie Film Lab.
Brennan,

Your expertise is well served by your new position, but I also understand the brave and abrupt moves for a creative like you.

Nashville is a cool city, but I pegged you as a New Yorker, even though you originally are from Tenn.

Anyways I wish you all the best, but know that the world is not that big.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-03-2017   #123
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert blu View Post
One day I'll jump on a plane to join one of your meetings...
robert
PS: if money and your president will be not a problem ...
Robert,

Looking forward to the day.

I learned that New York is not as big as Paris, London and Milan, as well as Japan and China for my Fashion Blogger gal.

I might meet you in Milan before I meet you in New York the way things are looking.

Anyways trying to stay positive, but the world is full of problems. I feel bad for my younger friends like Brennan. It seems we baby boomers got more than our fair share.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-06-2017   #124
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
So the print I brought to the February NYC Meet-Up/Camera Circus was well received. At this year's event there was a massive selection of gear and glass, but my choice for winner was a black paint (dechromed/repainted) last batch M2M with black paint 35 Cron ASPH that had a fresh "DAG-seal."

While Joe IMHO had best in show, Sam was awarded the print because of the collection of rarities he brought. It was like a museum currated show by Sam, and Joe who I see every month will get another print in the future.

Two of our guests are pro graphic artists, and Landrew's friend was new to the meet-up and is a pro photo retoucher. Deeply impressed by the look and IQ the remark that was made is "It looks like film, but without the grain."

I found this comment interesting because I heard the same comment from the film Die-Hards at B&H. I would not say that my prints look like silver wet prints, but I would say they have their own look that is strongly and firmly filmish.

In this forum someone posted that they don't like Fuji Acros because it looks too digital, and because this happens to be one of my favorite films I respond strongly, thinking that this poster likely would hate large format photography. Anyways my digital prints kinda resemble Fuji Acros in rendering that is shot at box speed and processed in Diafine, a compensating developer.

From my analog photography and my appreciation of large format it seems the fine grain of Acros is conveyed in Piezography, as well as the strong blacks and shadow details. The way I post process resembles the expanded dynamic range I get via using a compensating developer with ample/enhanced shadow detail, smooth highlights, and broad mid tone that I would say suggests a bit of HDR film.

I expressed concerns that my HDR might express too much, but the extra detail I tease out in my prints does seem to be well received, and I don't get told that I went too far or over processed. I think the anology to film is because my prints, although highly detailed, have inherent smoothness that suggests film and not digital. Anyways the responses from different groups of people seems to be very consistent, and I have gotten many responses/comments that my prints don't look like digital prints.

Interesting the "No grain" response because I feel I actually pushed the shadows perhaps to my limit, and in detail I can see "digital grain" meaning noise in this Woman's March protest.

There is also another thing that has happened: because I print I detect the slightest imperfection, I see many things that others don't notice.

Gil at B&H suggested that because I print my own work that my vision has evolved more fully, and I think that is true. A good reason to print is to become a better photographer.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-07-2017   #125
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
At the Leica Gallery in SoHo they always have interesting shows, and I saw a new exhibition of silver wet prints from David J. Carol last night.

Right by the door is a large print that kinda grabs you, and in the back is a big display of smaller prints. Anyways silver wet prints speak for themselves when done well. The presentation of rich blacks and smoothness of detail for me is what makes a wet print so vast, even though Piezography offers wider dynamic range, higher resoluton, and finer detail.

Anyways an impressive display at the Leica Store as always. Film will always be part of me, and I still shoot film and have way too many film cameras, but digital and Piezography are clearly to me a discreet separate medium. It is truely wonderful to be good at both.

Interesting to note that these shows at this Leica Store are generally supported by books and book signings. Something to remember because book signings have mucho value added and at this event books will be available in both "trade" or limited editions. I'll surely be going to gather more smut and see how it gets done.

Anyways Renee, the Curator at the Leica Store, did another great job. seems like they present a photographer's photographer at every show. The book signing is February 16th from 6-8 PM.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-07-2017   #126
Steve M.
Registered User
 
Steve M. is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,398
This "thread" has taken the concept of bumping to the nuclear level.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-07-2017   #127
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
This "thread" has taken the concept of bumping to the nuclear level.
Steve,

I hope it is all good and inclusive. Call me confused, but I love film as well as digital.

Anyways my mind is blown away by great photography. Something to feel passionate about, something to live for, and something to share.

Kinda makes more sense than the rest of the world. Makes me feel more alive.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-15-2017   #128
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
It seems that the difficulties with bypassing Epson OEM inks on new "P" series printers has become too big a hurdle to jump. Somehow people in Europe and Asia have access to chips that are not able to be imported into the USA.

Anyways Jon Cone is likely the second most stubborn man I know, with the first being my deceased father. I had placed my bet that Jon would be able to undercut Epson's lockout, but this most recent newsletter I received today underscores the defeat because in the newsletter it is underscored hoarding a supply of 3880's and having a fleet of large format pro printers that can be kept going indefinitely.

So part of this newsletter is the pitch that if you want the darkest available blacks that upgrading your inkset is the way to go and keep on using your old printer. The new PK-HD that was developed for Piezography Pro, that is both the measured and visually seen darkest available black that exceeds all current new OEM inksets, is an upgrade for my K7 and also color inksets.

At this point the anticipated mid February public release of PK-HD and Piezography Pro seems to be pushed out to March. Basically sometime in March everyone can buy PK-HD and PP, and the inks will be stocked in a warehouse by then.

So to update my K7 with PK-HD (already own a stockpile from being a PP early adopter) I would have to either subscribe to Piezography Professional Edition (software to linearize my system with an I1 Pro) for $150.00, or have a curve made for me, or wait for a new "canned" curve to be added to the updated library.

PPE also would be required to linearize a color inkset, and to be able to make one's own curves for making digital negatives. Thus far I am only using the "canned" curves made for the new library that costs nothing.

So the heads up here is for those of you who recently bought refurbished 3880's know that you did a very smart thing, and for people like me consider hoarding a spare or getting a large format X800 or X880 for longevity and durability.

Eventually the library will get updated with new "Canned" K7 curves that use the PK-HD. It seems that if you like really black blacks or the blackest blacks one now has to be more open to matte printing because PK-HD is a game changer.

If anyone would like the newsleter I received today just send me a PM with your e-mail and I will forward it to you.

My most recent print involves using a color file from my SL. What makes this file so remarkable is that it was created using the 24mm-90mm Zoom set at 24mm and was captured at night using only 400 ISO wide open, but exploiting image stabilization. I am amazed how remarkably sharp is the image due to the low shutter speed.

So there is a mural that is brightly illuminated on Houston Street at night of horses displaying fury, but there are people walking on the sidewalk that in scale are dwarfed and are in the shadows. Two are men walking their small dogs, and the dog most further away is looking back at the other dog.

Anyways what makes this image is the remarkable sharp contrast that is matched by the wide angle resolution that makes everything so vivid and a heightened reality.

I only had to make one print, and no further development was required. I imagine when I get my 50 Lux-SL that is pre-paid (number 4 on a waiting list) that the possibilities to exploit the image stabilization will make for mucho amazing urban night shooting. Something to consider if one is thinking of getting a M10: image stabilization works extremely well on the SL. BTW Leica lent me the 24-90 for Fashion Week.

Sometime later this month I should be getting my Monochrom back from Leica with a replaced sensor. I can't wait.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-17-2017   #129
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Last night printed two high ISO (3200) files that were originally color files shot with my SL. The clean files from the SL are really amazing and remarkable. I first post process the images fully as color shots before converting to B&W for further tweaking. I find I get the best prints by doing a little extra work. Both of these images were taken at night: one outdoors; and the other inside a swanky club.

One image was of a black 56 Chevy four-door parked near Cooper Union shot with the 50 Lux-R "E60" shot at F2.8 and the sharpness is displayed by the registration sticker on the windshield where the lettering and bar code are legible even though the profile shot is of the entire car in darkness. Pretty much black on black at night. On this print because there was so much black I dialed down the warmth a lot and relied mostly on the inherent warmth of the Canson Baryta Photographique to establish its presence. Anyways this shot says a lot about the SL and Piezography because technically the shot is stunning: the shutter speed was 1/15 second with a 50!!!

I culled from three different shots, all three were remarkably sharp, but the one I printed was the sharpest. Kinda funny is that I focused on the registration sticker in each of the three shots basically as a test, and a few times I am very surprised by my testing because a few times these tests end up being my best shots of the night.

The other print was at a fashion event at a midtown club celebrating a modeling agency's 10 year anniversary. At 5"10 I felt rather short in the mob of models/amazonians, but I took this shot of "Madison" a Make-Up Artist I knew holding an empty glass filled with ice looking kinda beved up and slyly giving me the eye peering around a man's head inbetween us. This shot was with a 35 Lux-R 3-cam shot at F2.8 and because of the slight amount of stopping down combined with the very close focusing isolated Madison from the crowd all around us in a rather striking manner. The rendering of sharpness and softness is kinda high contrast, exaggerated by a close distance.

Lately I have been in a groove not having to dial in the split toning by having to make test prints to make the prints I envision. I kinda have a sample library of blended curves as print samples that I utilize as a reference. It was clever to create all the documentation, not only for repeatability, but also as a reference for future printing as a library.

Anyways I'm really excited by all the possibilities of exploiting the SL's high ISO capabilities and image stabilization (built in native SL lenses like the 50 Lux-SL). Pretty much living in NYC with such capabilities is like living in paradise. The IQ is mind blowing.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-17-2017   #130
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
I forgot to mention that because the world is not so big that I found out how that one MFA grad from the Milk Studios exhibit made these divine prints that suggested watercolors. At a fashion pop-up event at a gallery on the Bowelry I ran into someone else who was at the very same opening at Milk Studios, but we did not run into each other at that opening.

It just so happens that my friend I met up with in the gallery in the Bowelry is friends with the artist who made the large prints I so admired, and I got the smut on how it was executed. It seems the latest version of Photoshop has some function that masks in the detail.

We both noticed the "headstrike" on the left border, but we also said unless one is a printer the defect would go mostly un-noticed.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-21-2017   #131
walkerblackwell
Registered User
 
walkerblackwell is offline
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 8
Just finished in the clean rm for Batch 2. Will take a bit of time to bottle and fulfill but we are on schedule for a much larger second batch that *fingers crossed* wont sell out before we can get more ingredients into our production facility in Vermont for #3. This Pro ink is artisanal to say the least, lol.

best all,
Walker
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-21-2017   #132
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by walkerblackwell View Post
Just finished in the clean rm for Batch 2. Will take a bit of time to bottle and fulfill but we are on schedule for a much larger second batch that *fingers crossed* wont sell out before we can get more ingredients into our production facility in Vermont for #3. This Pro ink is artisanal to say the least, lol.

best all,
Walker
Walker,

I have two friends that recently bought refurbished 3880's to set up with PP. Anyways this is all good news. They have been waiting...

Over the weekend I was looking at my prints and was hunting down an old K7 print. It seems I have grown use to the new black-HD. The K7 prints still are great prints, but the new black really kills it.

Anyways I'm really loving PP. The results are stunning. I'll be showing off some new prints at the NYC Meet-Up March 12th.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-06-2017   #133
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Mid March is when PP is expected to be in the warehouse and will be available to the general public.

BTW I have been very busy printing, I ran down my stockpile of paper, and I need to bulk up again.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-06-2017   #134
jszokoli
Registered User
 
jszokoli's Avatar
 
jszokoli is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 95
Cal,

Sent a e-mail inquiring about availability, no answer yet.

What sizes do the PP inks come in?

Joe
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-06-2017   #135
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by jszokoli View Post
Cal,

Sent a e-mail inquiring about availability, no answer yet.

What sizes do the PP inks come in?

Joe
Joe,

I'll send you the email I got from Jon Cone about the mid-March availability.

The inksets come in increments to fill your carts, but realize after the initial fill that about 1/3rd of the capacity of a 90ml 3880 cart would be gone and be in the lines and waste tank. I believe there are 110ml inksets

I only paid attention to the bigger sizes of 700ml and 350ml because I wanted to bulk up to save money. Anyways you know how much I print...

BTW as an early adopter there was incentive to bulk up: a 15% discount on ink and carts.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-16-2017   #136
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
UPDATE: My pace of printing has been about a box of 25 17x22's a month and I'm down to my last box and will have to restock soon. My 7800 remains in storage mode and is loaded with Piezoflush. Sometime later this month I'll power up the 7800 and run a Power Clean just for good measure.

At this point I have a large stack of 18x12 prints that are fully developed work prints on 17x22 paper. The backs of these prints are annotated with useful information, and the way I have the borders set up there is a rather big offset of 3 inches from the left edge or top of the print depending on if the print is a landscape or vertical shot.

Over the weekend I kinda sorted into piles the urban landscape shots, street shots, and the combination. It became an obvious edit that eventually became two piles: one was more landscape where any people were incidental; and the other pile had either a person or people as the main subject. All were of NYC as the location, so in very broad terms this book will be about "street."

The size of this book overall will be 22x17 inches, and since this is a workbook that will be eternally edited and will be a container for organizing images, I now have a format that creates prints that are large enough to have meaning, but I'm creating a rather serious table-top book that will be a rather large object.

I decided to be clever and utilize a ready made clamshell box as part of the presentation to add elegance, so this locks me into the size of the overall size of the book, and the depth of the box is 2 inches deep, and overall we are talking a 45-55 pound book that when full might have 150-180 pages when full.

Initially I was going to sew the pages and make a conventionally bound book, but this project now I see as being better as being modular to support editing and continual evolution that will lead to fully developed body of work. The intent is to use my book as an editing tool primarily, but later it could be a grand marketing tool to display my work that hopefully leads to exhibition.

I intend on using these modular screw binders that will allow me to scale in the thickness I need as I print more, and the front and back covers will be intergrated into masking the screw binders. Because I have an extra two inches of either left or top border I have this amount of material to add to the border or spine.

So anyways I now have a workable concept that seems flushed out, and it seems I am really utilizing the 3880 in a grand way to build a serious body of work that has a lot of potential.

Sorry for the rant.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-24-2017   #137
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
I got an e-mail that the second batch will be available on March 28th.

I am greatful to have been an early adopter, and also know that I was wise to take advantage of sale pricing to "load up the truck" with a stockpile.

I remain deeply impressed with PP, and one pass printing surely speeds up my printing.

The book I am creating (personal workbook comprised of "workprints") is turning out to be rather impressive, and I think I will enlist a consult with the "Center For Book Arts" here in NYC to get some technical advice. I am pretty sure I could barter some prints or printing for the technical assistance with a book artist.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-28-2017   #138
thompsonks
Registered User
 
thompsonks is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 750
I wonder what sort of 'modular screw binders' you're using?

I use the Moab and Pina Zangaro products for mockups, and then have a professional bookbinder make the final version. I like screwpost binding for original prints, in the style of Friedlander's Monuments, because the book's owner can remove individual pages for framing and then put them back again. My experience is that a midweight matte paper works best for original-print books because semi-gloss and gloss surfaces Tend to develop moon-shaped crinkles from page-turning.

Have you found screwpost kits in larger sizes than the ones I mentioned?

Kirk

PS, finally bought a 3880 and ordered the Piezo Pro ink set. I hope it won't clog and won't suffer from metamerism like older versions. Will no doubt be asking soon for your insights/experience/advice!
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-29-2017   #139
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsonks View Post
I wonder what sort of 'modular screw binders' you're using?

I use the Moab and Pina Zangaro products for mockups, and then have a professional bookbinder make the final version. I like screwpost binding for original prints, in the style of Friedlander's Monuments, because the book's owner can remove individual pages for framing and then put them back again. My experience is that a midweight matte paper works best for original-print books because semi-gloss and gloss surfaces Tend to develop moon-shaped crinkles from page-turning.

Have you found screwpost kits in larger sizes than the ones I mentioned?

Kirk

PS, finally bought a 3880 and ordered the Piezo Pro ink set. I hope it won't clog and won't suffer from metamerism like older versions. Will no doubt be asking soon for your insights/experience/advice!
Kirk,

The largest screw binder posts I have ever seen were perhaps three inches. In the literary world where 12 point double space manuscripts they are used.

For screenplays thinner versions are commonly used for about 120 pages of copy paper.

When I locate a source I surely will post. Pretty sure I saw these at AI Friedman.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-29-2017   #140
thompsonks
Registered User
 
thompsonks is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 750
Thx, Cal, but no problem finding the posts themselves. Main whsle source is Chicago Screws. I guess we have something different in mind – I was asking if you were using the screwpost binder kits with covers that give a finished-looking result, or at least finished enough for a mock-up.

Perhaps say more about what you're making? You want to make a book three inches thick, of prints on fine art photo paper? When Steidl prints something like that, they make it in 2 or 3 volumes so you can carry it and open it!

Kirk

PS, I'm trying to follow you into Piezo Pro but am encountering obstacles. Getting started is difficult bcz they don't have a simple/sensible list of what makes up a 'starter kit.' They should offer this for 3xxx. 4xxx, and 7xxx printers?

Also some little supply problems: Found out when unpacking that I had the right number of refillable cartridges for 3880 but they'd packed 8 instead of 9 syringes.

And as I was putting the chips together today and found that one of the refillable cartridges is defective – loose pin fell out of reset chip. I hope Wells can deal with this by the time the ink arrives! Trying to print a book called Darkscapes, and I figured I should use the new deeper-black inkset for that.

K
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-30-2017   #141
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsonks View Post
Thx, Cal, but no problem finding the posts themselves. Main whsle source is Chicago Screws. I guess we have something different in mind I was asking if you were using the screwpost binder kits with covers that give a finished-looking result, or at least finished enough for a mock-up.

Perhaps say more about what you're making? You want to make a book three inches thick, of prints on fine art photo paper? When Steidl prints something like that, they make it in 2 or 3 volumes so you can carry it and open it!

Kirk

PS, I'm trying to follow you into Piezo Pro but am encountering obstacles. Getting started is difficult bcz they don't have a simple/sensible list of what makes up a 'starter kit.' They should offer this for 3xxx. 4xxx, and 7xxx printers?

Also some little supply problems: Found out when unpacking that I had the right number of refillable cartridges for 3880 but they'd packed 8 instead of 9 syringes.

And as I was putting the chips together today and found that one of the refillable cartridges is defective loose pin fell out of reset chip. I hope Wells can deal with this by the time the ink arrives! Trying to print a book called Darkscapes, and I figured I should use the new deeper-black inkset for that.

K
Kirk,

Wells is a good guy, and any difficulties I ever had were either handled by Wells, Dana or Walker. The support is outstanding.

If you need extra syringes PM me. I have mucho.

I have found the 3880 to be ideal as my smaller printer. Mine is now three years old, and it got heavily used. Lately I have been printing less, but I still find the time to print every 3-4 days. It seems like this is a reasonable minimum.

As far as avoiding clogging I run a humidifier in my 1-bedroom apartment at 60% humidity. For my skin, to preserve musical instruments, and to help keep my print head moist a humidifier during the winter helps a lot.

I also clean my capping station at least once a month. This involves wiping the wiper with Q-tips wetted with Piezoflush. I also Q-tip the gasket around the perimeter of the capping station that seals against the print head. Then there is this dabbing with small folded pieces of wetted paper towel (wetted with Piezoflush) to remove ink buildup on the capping station bedding.

If I am printing heavily (more than a box of 17x22 a month) I tend to do this every two weeks because the buildup can become great and it is much easier to clean more often than deal with a big buildup.

Every other week I check my levels and gently shake my carts to keep the pigment from settling.

The only time I had difficulties with clogging and had to do power cleans was when I was printing K7 in batches where I first made say 6-8 prints by laying down shades of black one night, and then a day later did the gloss overcoat. If you know K7 this is a bad idea because the print head gets exposed to a lot of airtime.

The only other times I had to do power cleans to get a perfect nozzle check is if I left my printer unused for over a week. Sometimes I got a good nozzle check, but sometimes not a perfect one. Pretty sure if I just printed it would of cleared itself, but I don't work that way.

Also you will figure out what you need to do for yourself. Also know that for nozzle checks you can use plain cheap copy paper.

I know you will like the deep blacks. The blacks and shadows are so rich. Basically the blacks are crazy, and there is no doubt that you have not seen blacks like this. Hope you have a calibrated monitor. Lower the brightness to suck out the contrast, and view only in a dimmed room.

It took me a while to notice that my calibrated EIZO dimmed down to 80 Lux in a darken room could not display all the shadow detail. Know that you can print what you cannot see.

I know from seeing you on this forum that you are a more experienced printer than me. My digital skills are rather limited to LR5, but I only need basic skills that are rather primitive. My only true assets are a good eye and a lot of experience making good negatives with a vast appreciation for medium and large format IQ.

If you send me you e-mail I will forward you a newsletter from Piezography. It promotes workshops that will be given, but it does supply the big picture of how advance and refined this system has become. I myself am intimidated by the next level which is buying a I1 Pro to calibrate my entire system and have the capability to create my own custom curves and custom paper profiles. My friend Scott who has posted here recommends that I take a workshop, and that is how he became so advanced.

Also know that if anyone else is interested in the big picture of the current state of the art just PM me with you e-mail and I will forward you the e-mail I received.

All I know that PP is faster and more convenient than K7, and the way I use the split tone is I like a big transition in the mids that is broad, and I really love the space the splitone creates.

For those that know the old Piezography, understand that now it is more streamlined, and one no longer has to data mine like I first had to. Things are less involved and less complicated than the old days.

I'm pretty sure that I can create a really pro level cover because I took a bookbinding workshop with Susan Mills, a great book artist. My concerns are the hinge near my book's spine. The Canson paper I use does not take to folding, and ideally I might want the page to lay flat, so I might want to do something elegant to allow my large page to lay flat.

Also in my case I think the glossy might be more durable to the handling. The Gloss optomizer allows me to spit or drool on the print to no ill effect, and I would deem the glossy print more durable and harder to damage. The purpose of this book BTW is to present my wok in an organized manner, but also it is a log because the reverse of the print surface is the file number and settings used. For me this is kind of a workbook to help me get organized. The work is really impressive though.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-2017   #142
thompsonks
Registered User
 
thompsonks is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 750
Many thx for being so helpful!

Yes, I could use a couple of extra syringes. Wells says they send out only 8 with the 9-ink cartridges and want the user to double up on what he called the two 'basic' blacks. This confused me, bcz I assume MK and PK are the 'basic' ones, and I know from making mistakes that these inks act so differently on different surfaces. So I'd hate to let them mix. If you'll PM me a Paypal address our send it directly to thompsonkirk at hotmail dot com, I'm happy to cover costs!

Also Yes, I've been getting some announcements from Inkjetmall but may not have the particular e-mail you mentioned, so I'd like to see that too.

I imagine a number of photographers will give the new Pro inset a try, and it would be nice if this little blog-on-a-thread became a place to look for people's reactions to it – something more casual than the Piezography Forum itself?

Thx again,

Kirk
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-03-2017   #143
walkerblackwell
Registered User
 
walkerblackwell is offline
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 8
When filling these carts, you can actually simply use 2 syringes.

"Pro" tip:

Buy 2 60mL syringe from IJM.

Start with GCO (or GO for K7). Put the 3880 cartridge vertical so the fill hole is facing up.

Pull the syringe plunger out entirely.

Put the syringe into the fill hole (it will fit snug).

Fill the syringe to 55mL from the bottle. Let it just sit there and it will slowly and evenly fill the cartridge with ink.

Pull the syringe from the cart, plug the fill hole, tap the syringe on the edge of the sink (it's ok if there are a few drops of ink) and then do the same for Light Grey Cool, then Medium Grey Cool, and Dark Grey Cool, and MK.

Use the second syringe for LG Warm, MG Warm, and DG Warm, and PK.

If a drop or so of a lighter shade is present in the fill of a darker shade it's fine.

best,
Walker
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-03-2017   #144
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsonks View Post
Many thx for being so helpful!

Yes, I could use a couple of extra syringes. Wells says they send out only 8 with the 9-ink cartridges and want the user to double up on what he called the two 'basic' blacks. This confused me, bcz I assume MK and PK are the 'basic' ones, and I know from making mistakes that these inks act so differently on different surfaces. So I'd hate to let them mix. If you'll PM me a Paypal address our send it directly to thompsonkirk at hotmail dot com, I'm happy to cover costs!

Also Yes, I've been getting some announcements from Inkjetmall but may not have the particular e-mail you mentioned, so I'd like to see that too.

I imagine a number of photographers will give the new Pro inset a try, and it would be nice if this little blog-on-a-thread became a place to look for people's reactions to it something more casual than the Piezography Forum itself?

Thx again,

Kirk
Kirk,

On my 3880 I do not print with matte black, that first cart all the way to the left gets loaded with Piezoflush and then more or less is forgotten about. Understand that I only print glossy.

I found that labeling all the carts with the ink shade and slot number avoids and helps prevent any mistakes.

Also every other week I tend to check my ink levels, and at that time I gently aggitate the carts to make sure the pigment does not settle out of suspension.

BTW PP is a lot less work than K-7. Very well engineered and so turn key.

My PM is coming...

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-03-2017   #145
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Yesterday refilled my carts. It seems I drain the Gloss Optimizer quickly and every other week I have to at least refill the cart. Anyone ordering PP that is printing glossy should double up on the Gloss Optimizer.

My latest prints are of one of my neighbors in East Harlem who happens to be a very old man. He is kinda like the Sentinal of East 101st Street and sets up a chair on the street where I live.

On two occasions I shot him: one is with a 50 Lux-R "E60" wide open that displays this wonderful sharpness, softness, and bokeh; and the other was with the new 50 Lux-SL the AF lens stopped down to F5.0 that captures this old man in the shadows framed by a run down doorway.

The man's skin is like leather and is weathered, so it is honest to say that he has a "Landscape-Face" that is full of detail. Anyways he shows a lot of dignity, it is apparent that he has had a hard life, and there is this humility that is ever present.

The doorway shot was a grabbed shot with my manual exposure set for street light, but the old man lurked in the shadows and was underexposed. I ended up making several different prints trying to extract the most detail, but in the end because the print was mostly blacks I eventually sucked out as much warmth as possible when setting my splitone for my best print.

The backdrop is urban decay, peeling paint, and weathered wood. My subject stands like a Madona wearing a hoodie which is mirrored in a sticker of a Madona on the rundown door.

I was really surprised by how warm the Canson Baryta paper is by itself.

For those who own a Monochrom or an SL the files from these cameras do very well and seem like a match made in heaven. The results are stunning.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-04-2017   #146
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
I got solicited for used/empty P-X000 carts by Jon Cone (with chips).

Jon Cone is likely the most stubborn man I ever have known besides my dad who is now deceased. If anyone can figure out a work around to Epson's lock down on using OEM inks only I would place my bet on Jon Cone.

So it seems that these worthless empty used carts are of strategic value to Piezography development, and rather than throw away these otherwise useless spent carts there is now a program to recycle these carts for a better good via a pre-paid mailer from Piezography.

PM me for the e-mail.

Go-Jon-go.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-04-2017   #147
Glenn2
Registered User
 
Glenn2's Avatar
 
Glenn2 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 306
Good to know Cal. I've got about ten 3880 empties saved in case I decide to go the route you have. I still print a mix of colour and B&W so will probably stay with Epson OEM inks for a while yet.

Is there anything that should be done with the empty cartridges after they're taken out, like a rinse?

Glenn
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-04-2017   #148
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn2 View Post
Good to know Cal. I've got about ten 3880 empties saved in case I decide to go the route you have. I still print a mix of colour and B&W so will probably stay with Epson OEM inks for a while yet.

Is there anything that should be done with the empty cartridges after they're taken out, like a rinse?

Glenn
Glenn,

The 3880 OEM Epson carts themselves are not refillable, but the part that is useful and needed are the chips.

I had to canniblize the chips from my color inkset to set up the refillable carts that I bought from InkJetMall (Jon Cone). These chips get reset everytime you turn on your printer and will always measure a full cart, so checking the levels every other week is kinda required.

I will mention that the refillable carts from InkJetMall are made to Jon Cone's specs, and other refillable carts are not necessarily of the same quality. Also know that for printing color it makes sense to buy Cone Color inks and fill refillable carts. The chips are color specific so if you decide to separate the chips from the carts make sure you label them to avoid chaos.

While the cost savings in Printing Piezography B&W is only minor, the cost savings of using Cone Color is major. Perhaps you can load an entire color inkset for about $80.00 excluding the purchase price of refillable carts.

At times the chips do go south, so having spares is a good idea. Over the past 2 1/2 years I have blown out two chips.

The P-X000 carts I mentioned above that get recycled to Jon Cone via his postage is for developing the work around so that third party inks can be used, and to prevent the price gouging from Epson. Know that the Cone Color inks are encapsulated, just like the Epson OEM, and that Cone Color and Epson inks can be blended because the formulas are compatable.

The really big deal for color printers is using the new photo black developed for Piezography Pro in a color inkset for the darkest black available. This is a mucho big deal. The new black is called PK-HD. You have not seen black like this.

Anyways I started printing with files from my Monochrom, but now I also own and shoot a Leica SL, so eventually I'll be doing the Cone Color with PK-HD for my black. I believe the curves are already developed and are free downloads as "Canned Profiles."

In my case my 7800 that currently is being stored with Piezoflush will eventually become my dedicated B&W printer, and my 3880 will be my Cone Color/PK-HD printer for color printing. Perhaps purchasing a second 3880 would be a smart move while they are still available refurbished by Epson.

BTW it does not make sense to share a printer by changing inksets. It is better sense to have a dedicated B&W printer and a separate dedicated color printer.

All the best.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-30-2017   #149
thompsonks
Registered User
 
thompsonks is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 750
I've been printing for several weeks now with the new Piezo Pro inkset and find it offers lovely gradations in the midtones. Its downside is a magenta ('pink') cast on many papers including HPR. Prints are quite rich on Harman Gloss Baryta and Baryta Warmtone, though just slightly 'pinker' than I'd prefer.

I've had better results from the standpoint of neutral tones on Moab Entrada than on HPR. Plan to try Moab Juniper as my glossy surface, but haven't got around to it yet.

Definitely an improvement over Epson ABW – less contrast (unless you add some), broader midtones, and better modulation of highlights. Not as much difference as I expected in shadows.

Kirk
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-01-2017   #150
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsonks View Post
I've been printing for several weeks now with the new Piezo Pro inkset and find it offers lovely gradations in the midtones. Its downside is a magenta ('pink') cast on many papers including HPR. Prints are quite rich on Harman Gloss Baryta and Baryta Warmtone, though just slightly 'pinker' than I'd prefer.

I've had better results from the standpoint of neutral tones on Moab Entrada than on HPR. Plan to try Moab Juniper as my glossy surface, but haven't got around to it yet.

Definitely an improvement over Epson ABW less contrast (unless you add some), broader midtones, and better modulation of highlights. Not as much difference as I expected in shadows.

Kirk
Kirk,

In regard to shadows, it was an epiphany for me to realize that I can print what I can't see, even in a darkened room with an Eizo dimmed down to 80 Lux. Basically I can print what I can't see. Understand the shadow detail is in the file, but you can't see it even on a dimmed calibrated monitor in a darkened room.

I think most people do not realize all the detail that is there, especially people who print with a lot of contrast.

Piezography has its own look, but I feel most people never discover and print over all the shadow detail by enhancing the contrast too much. Also I don't understand how you can say that there is not a big jump in shadow detail when you have the blackest black on the planet in the PP inkset to anchor your contrast.

One really has to think about large format photography when printing PP. The tonal range is not what you are use to. You already discovered how the mids opened up, but I'm telling you there is an entire universe in the shadows that you have not discovered yet. Think large format photography...

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-02-2017   #151
thompsonks
Registered User
 
thompsonks is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 750
I can't help wondering if you're excited about what was there all along.

On your monitor: Are you soft-proofing? This isn't very accurate with PPro inkset yet, because they haven't made soft-proof profiles for it! But you can get a good approximation by going through the K7 profiles and picking the one that best matches, on your monitor, a stepwedge and a print under your standard viewing light. If you do this carefully, you shouldn't be surprised by shadow detail you couldn't see - you'll be tolerably close to WYSIWYG. On my monitor with a well-chosen soft-proof profile I can see the 1% shadow separations on the Proof of Piezography file.

If you want to see shadow detail even more exactly, download Tony Kuyper's luminosity masks. He has BW Zone Masks that let you look into the shadows at discrete levels and expand or contract them (though his zones don't have the same densities as the Ansel Adams Zone System). I've heard there's also something like this in Silver Efex, but I don't use it.

In your prints: If you've printed a good set of stepwedges and 'Proof of Piezography' files, you should have been seeing 1% increments or at least 2% increments of shadow and highlight detail in these prints from the start. If you manage your histograms carefully, there's no missing or invisible shadow detail, it's simply where you choose to place it, subject to DMax of your paper of choice.

As to the 'planet's deepest black,' IMO this is measurable more than it's visible, because our addled brains tend to 'normalize' by taking the darkest tone they see to be max black, and the paper base to be max white. If you compare ABW and Piezo prints on the same paper by side, the difference in density is hard to see. And the same if you compare two Piezo-printed fine-art gloss baryta papers side by side: you can see how different coatings and profiles distribute the tonal range a bit differently, but DMax is usually pretty close and sometimes within the margin of measurement error. Also for any two top-notch matte fine-art matte papers: for example, HPR measures deeper DMax than Entrada Natural - but the difference is visually slight and the PPro inkset 'plays better,' tonally, with Entrada.

So I remain convinced that despite the pride and hype about measurably deeper blacks, the real Piezo advantage is the curves that distribute tones so gently and accurately through the entire range from 0 to 255 (and everywhere in between, where we see continuous tone). Almost all other profiles, even custom ones, are made from color charts with a limited number of shades of gray. And Epson ABW profiles seem to be non-linear by design, so you'll be impressed by a 'snappy' print. ABW seems to elevate the midrange and to exaggerate local contrast or 'clarity,' at the expense of smooth overall tonality; and IMO this is what makes PPro printing worth the fuss-and-bother of fooling around with the cartridges. I still knock out ABW contact sheets and workprints for editing, but I never expect to make another book or exhibition print that way.

If ABW was the comparison you had in mind, then we're more or less on the same track - though I'd been able to nurse very good shadow detail out of it. However it's the overall look of my initial piezo prints that's impressing me.

Kirk
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-04-2017   #152
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsonks View Post
I can't help wondering if you're excited about what was there all along.

On your monitor: Are you soft-proofing? This isn't very accurate with PPro inkset yet, because they haven't made soft-proof profiles for it! But you can get a good approximation by going through the K7 profiles and picking the one that best matches, on your monitor, a stepwedge and a print under your standard viewing light. If you do this carefully, you shouldn't be surprised by shadow detail you couldn't see - you'll be tolerably close to WYSIWYG. On my monitor with a well-chosen soft-proof profile I can see the 1% shadow separations on the Proof of Piezography file.

If you want to see shadow detail even more exactly, download Tony Kuyper's luminosity masks. He has BW Zone Masks that let you look into the shadows at discrete levels and expand or contract them (though his zones don't have the same densities as the Ansel Adams Zone System). I've heard there's also something like this in Silver Efex, but I don't use it.

In your prints: If you've printed a good set of stepwedges and 'Proof of Piezography' files, you should have been seeing 1% increments or at least 2% increments of shadow and highlight detail in these prints from the start. If you manage your histograms carefully, there's no missing or invisible shadow detail, it's simply where you choose to place it, subject to DMax of your paper of choice.

As to the 'planet's deepest black,' IMO this is measurable more than it's visible, because our addled brains tend to 'normalize' by taking the darkest tone they see to be max black, and the paper base to be max white. If you compare ABW and Piezo prints on the same paper by side, the difference in density is hard to see. And the same if you compare two Piezo-printed fine-art gloss baryta papers side by side: you can see how different coatings and profiles distribute the tonal range a bit differently, but DMax is usually pretty close and sometimes within the margin of measurement error. Also for any two top-notch matte fine-art matte papers: for example, HPR measures deeper DMax than Entrada Natural - but the difference is visually slight and the PPro inkset 'plays better,' tonally, with Entrada.

So I remain convinced that despite the pride and hype about measurably deeper blacks, the real Piezo advantage is the curves that distribute tones so gently and accurately through the entire range from 0 to 255 (and everywhere in between, where we see continuous tone). Almost all other profiles, even custom ones, are made from color charts with a limited number of shades of gray. And Epson ABW profiles seem to be non-linear by design, so you'll be impressed by a 'snappy' print. ABW seems to elevate the midrange and to exaggerate local contrast or 'clarity,' at the expense of smooth overall tonality; and IMO this is what makes PPro printing worth the fuss-and-bother of fooling around with the cartridges. I still knock out ABW contact sheets and workprints for editing, but I never expect to make another book or exhibition print that way.

If ABW was the comparison you had in mind, then we're more or less on the same track - though I'd been able to nurse very good shadow detail out of it. However it's the overall look of my initial piezo prints that's impressing me.

Kirk
Kirk,

Thanks for your very helpful and thoughtful response. I have followed some of your posts over the years, know you are a much more experienced printer than me, and I have been anxious to hear your spin on PP.

Also I am more or less using the canned profiles and like you suggest I am using K-7 profiles to get an approximation in my soft proofing which only goes so far. It seems that the next level is calibrating one's entire system with this $150.00 Jon Cone software, buying an I1 Pro, and printing targets. Pretty much one then can profile their own papers and create accurate soft proofing.

My friend Scott suggests attending one of Jon Cones workshops to get to that level, but that is about $1.5K.

I can see the difference in the blacks and shadows between my K7 and PP prints from the same files. To me the PP displays more shadow detail, but like you say it kinda is where you set it because with PP I tend to do contrast differently than how I do K-7.

The differences you explain between Epson OEM and PP make sense to me. My friend Joe and I have played around comparing prints of the same file between the two systems. Each has its own look.

Joe who has a second 3880 dedicated for PP says the level of control and learning how to take advantage of the flexibility is the real challenge. Like you say it is the smooth range of tone...

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-06-2017   #153
thompsonks
Registered User
 
thompsonks is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 750
Re: soft proofing: While I had no difficulty with matte papers, I've been printing this week on gloss baryta surfaces, and prints are consistently darker than any of the gloss icc profiles can compensate for. When you print on glossy papers, what profiles/curves do you use?

Kirk
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-08-2017   #154
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,598
Kirk,

I am using Neutral-CANbarytaPTO. Like you speculated I am not fully calibrated and are just in the ball park. I have never printed a target and do fine using everything "canned."

Know that I only print glossy, and there is a big jump in contrast from K7 to PP. Like I said I handle contrast differently between the two inksets. This is why I was surprised when you mentioned different results when comparing OEM and PP (not a big jump in contrast).

So it seems the contrast, the blacker black, and mucho shadow detail becomes very evident in PP glossy printing, and not so in matte printing. Is this correct?

With the split toning there really is no way to soft proof, so I use hard proofing and experience to optimize the final print.

BTW it does seem like PP is optimized for Canson Baryta. This is an inherently warm paper so I tend to peg the highlights with 97 selenium; moderate a bit the selenium in the mids for a long transition; and further dial down the selenium and bring only a bit of warmth in the shadows to make the shadows stand out against the true blacks. I just keep the warmth at 3 in the highlights to keep the nozzle wet.

In comparing PP to K7 it seems K7 favors the mids and this is where K7 has the longest tonal range and presents the most detail. PP on the other hand has the most detail in the shadows and blacks. I totally see needing both inksets for the above different reasons. The K-7 does well with landscape and the vast midrange is like large format big time, especially on huge prints (20x30 Monochrom image capture).

Anyways I use fully dried prints as my proofs, and this is how I bypassed calibrating my system.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-19-2017   #155
walkerblackwell
Registered User
 
walkerblackwell is offline
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompsonks View Post
Re: soft proofing: While I had no difficulty with matte papers, I've been printing this week on gloss baryta surfaces, and prints are consistently darker than any of the gloss icc profiles can compensate for. When you print on glossy papers, what profiles/curves do you use?

Kirk
When printing Pro you use Print Tool and NO profile (no color management) and a GrayGamma 2.2 image. Then soft-proof using any of the available piezography k7 profiles making sure to turn "Preserver numbers" on.

We are working on making some pro soft-proof profiles of the most popular toning options.

Full soft proof documentation is in the manual that comes with Piezography Community Edition as well as here: https://piezography.com/2013/05/17/p...soft-proofing/

regards,
Walker
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:58.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.