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Leica Screw Mount Copies Classic Leica Copy forum as listed in the book 300 Leica Copies, including but not limited to Nicca, Leotax, Honor, Canon etc. At one time there was a major part of the camera industry just trying to make a lower cost copy/dirivitive of the original Leica.

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Old 09-11-2014   #601
Jacques M.
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I don't see why the ears would be a problem...

I know that some collectors think that the Sonnars with ears are fake. I just wonder why...

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Old 09-17-2014   #602
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Anyone bought the Fed with 50/1.5 Sonnar from the auction site?
How did it turn out?

If real, it looked like a good deal.
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Old 09-18-2014   #603
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I was outbid, and internet problems prevented me from upping my bid

Looked like the real deal to me - just like the one now with Dirk.....
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Old 09-18-2014   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john neal View Post
I was outbid, and internet problems prevented me from upping my bid

Looked like the real deal to me - just like the one now with Dirk.....

I am no expert, but this site suggests you had a lucky escape:

http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Zeiss_Fakes.html

Ears near the aperture ring, and comma as the number separator both apparently indicative of a fake...
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Old 09-18-2014   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James1 View Post
I am no expert, but this site suggests you had a lucky escape:

http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Zeiss_Fakes.html

Ears near the aperture ring, and comma as the number separator both apparently indicative of a fake...
The ears are a somewhat vague indication - these were on a few original modules (most notably Contax mount collapsible lenses), and might turn up on other lenses that had their aperture replaced in a repair. That some Russian with a spelling fetish re-engraved his original Zeiss lens with commas in place of the dots is very, very unlikely, though...
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Old 09-18-2014   #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john neal View Post
I was outbid, and internet problems prevented me from upping my bid

Looked like the real deal to me - just like the one now with Dirk.....


I hope it was a nice one and somebody got a great deal.
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Old 09-18-2014   #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James1 View Post
I am no expert, but this site suggests you had a lucky escape:

http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Zeiss_Fakes.html

Ears near the aperture ring, and comma as the number separator both apparently indicative of a fake...
About this site and the conclusions, I am not sure that all is absolutely proved...
The 289xxxx 1,5/5cm LTM Sonnar is presented on this site as the model of genuine LTM Sonnars. But there is no batch of 1,5/5cm Sonnar in the 289xxxx numbers... by the works of Thiele, based on the official factory numbers.

I don't say that this lens is a fake. Of course not. But the 2000 1,5/5cm LTM Sonnars officially made by the factory are in the 284xxxx range. Not elsewhere.

The main question is: what is a fake, for each of us? Of course, a disguised Jup 3 belongs to that category (I own one, with ears, very easy to identify). But all the others?

Amitiés. Jacques.

Last edited by Jacques M. : 09-18-2014 at 12:23. Reason: error
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Old 09-18-2014   #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques M. View Post
About this site and the conclusions, I am not sure that all is absolutely proved...
The 289xxxx 1,5/5cm LTM Sonnar is presented on this site as the model of genuine LTM Sonnars. But there is no batch of 1,5/5cm Sonnar in the 289xxxx numbers... by the works of Thiele, based on the official factory numbers.

I don't say that this lens is a fake. Of course not. But the 2000 1,5/5cm LTM Sonnars officially made by the factory are in the 284xxxx range. Not elsewhere.

The main question is: what is a fake, for each of us? Of course, a disguised Jup 3 belongs to that category (I own one, with ears, very easy to identify). But all the others?

Amitiés. Jacques.
Interesting Jacques, that there are "official" factory records regarding the wartime produced lenses.
Indeed it could be assumed that records and actually produced units during those years are not necessarily in sync.

The LTM Sonnar I have from John for example does have a wartime 27… optical cell with matching numbers and is fixed inside a genuine LTM mount with , … hold yourself 285… SN marking

Maybe this one was built from left over LTM mounts from the recorded 2000 pcs or the actual recordings are incomplete and production of LTM Sonnars exceeded the 2000 pcs or shifted into a later SN window?

I believe that it might now be impossible to exactly say what is made when, where and by whom.
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Old 09-18-2014   #609
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I absolutely agree with you, Menos: impossible to know exactly.

I have six 1,5/5cm LTM Sonnars, none belonging to this famous official batch. But all have the good stamped Zeiss number on the back, and several (two or three) even have the number engraved by Zeiss on the rangefinder shell, inside. Perhaps original bayonet Sonnars directly converted by the factory for war reasons.

The factory records are not complete: there are holes in them. And I think too that the factory production exceeded 2000 lenses. All that without the number of reconstructions from genuine parts, in Germany or in Russia...

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Old 10-15-2014   #610
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I was offered a "wartime" Sonnar last weekend at a dealer in Manchester, from memory, the serial was in the 290xxxx range. It had the small "m" and the two adjacent screws in the focus ring and a red "T" on the name ring - in fact the body looked quite convincing from the outside, including convincing ageing.

However, when I unscrewed the optic module, it was obviously a Russian built lens (J3 internals) - no serial on the rear block and the inside of the focus helix was bright aluminium with so scribed serial. I wonder if it was one of the 1946-ish ones referred to by Leica Tom?

I decided that GBP250 was too much to pay for what might turn out to be a J3 in disguise.
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Last edited by john neal : 10-15-2014 at 22:47. Reason: smelling errors
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Old 10-22-2014   #611
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Yeah John the #290xxxx one's are 1946/7 parts builds from the Russian Army.

I found a mint with both caps *German Made/Wartime* 1945 m39 CZJ f1.5/50 T Sonnar the other day for $300 - couldn't find the cash for it quick enough, it ended up going overseas.......

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Old 10-23-2014   #612
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So, I just joined the club today. My CZJ Sonnar 1.5/5 cm in M39 has arrived this afternoon. Here it is with it's "sibling", a CZJ Sonnar 2/5 cm in M39.



Some details:







The optical assembly is brass with corresponding serial number engraved, there is lower case "m", small focus triangle, and also the two adjacent screws on the focusing ring. But, it has ears on the aperture ring and commas as separators. Even though, so does my 2/50 Sonnar, and that is a 100% original wartime lens.

Plus, there is a small and faint engraving on the rangefinder coupling ring. It says "Re" in script, and appears to have been done by hand, possibly by technician during assembly or repair.

The apperture ring is dented in one place, but it is moving okay. The glass seems to be okay with some cleaning marks on the front element.

So, is it the real deal, or a very, very, very well made fake? :-D
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Old 10-27-2014   #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Austrowolf View Post
So, I just joined the club today. My CZJ Sonnar 1.5/5 cm in M39 has arrived this afternoon. Here it is with it's "sibling", a CZJ Sonnar 2/5 cm in M39.

The optical assembly is brass with corresponding serial number engraved, there is lower case "m", small focus triangle, and also the two adjacent screws on the focusing ring. But, it has ears on the aperture ring and commas as separators. Even though, so does my 2/50 Sonnar, and that is a 100% original wartime lens.

Plus, there is a small and faint engraving on the rangefinder coupling ring. It says "Re" in script, and appears to have been done by hand, possibly by technician during assembly or repair.

The apperture ring is dented in one place, but it is moving okay. The glass seems to be okay with some cleaning marks on the front element.

So, is it the real deal, or a very, very, very well made fake? :-D
Both look to be original Jena made 1943 era M39 lenses....

Tom
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Old 10-28-2014   #614
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That Zeiss-Leica M39/LTM info website that's been up for years deceives everyone, ALL Jena factory made-converted WW2 CZJ M39 lenses made during the war HAD "ears" just as their Contax counterparts did, it's the English custom mounted and Post War Russian Army lenses that sometimes didn't have "ears".

And mostly ALL Zeiss M39 lenses you see for sale are so-called "real" lenses as well, even the Russian Army ones, while they were all made with original parts, the problem you have is when you have Contax lenses, "hacked/cracked" into Russian Jupiter lens mounts, being sold as an original.

That's the fake.

Ohh and the reason I took away all my posts was certain collectors who owned some of the lenses didn't want them posted online anymore, so I respected that, I didn't have time to delete just the posts affected so I took them all down.

I've been away sick almost 2 years with health issues, but I will return with some new posts from my lenses I still have in my collection and I will share some photos when I find the time possible.

Did anyone here buy that MINT 1945 lens that sold for only $300 about a month ago?

It was most beautiful condition wartime era M39 Sonnar I've ever seen, a "black nose" 1945 #285xxxx ~ It was a WW2 "bringback" from an Officer/Photographer from the US Army Signal Corps who kept the lens packed like fine jewelry away from harm for over 60 years!

The glass was pristine, with the typical Zeiss bubbles......it was a sight!

Tom
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Old 10-28-2014   #615
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Welcome back Tom. No need to explain, just keep on posting.
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HU - Original M39/LTM CZJ Sonnar f2/85 Portrait Lens
Old 12-26-2014   #616
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HU - Original M39/LTM CZJ Sonnar f2/85 Portrait Lens

Well, seems like the online market for "wartime" M39/LTM Sonnar's has dried up a little?

But after some browsing around I did find what looks here like a REAL CZJ M39/LTM Sonnar f2/85 lens, ca. 1945 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wartime-8-5c...item418d1a01b3

Seems to have had a Brian Sweeney CLA which is worth it's weight in gold, have to ask the seller more about that, while I'm pretty sure Brian hasn't don any CLA's in a long time, I wish he would while I have a rare 1943 version of this lens that needs focus adjusting.

I think that screw on the side of the lens has been replaced? Not 100% sure.

I have no connection to the seller and I'm just posting this as a Heads Up to anyone interested.

Cheers,

Tom
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1950 Kiev camera and ZK 50mm f2 lens is it fake?
Old 02-13-2015   #617
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1950 Kiev camera and ZK 50mm f2 lens is it fake?

Just bought this Kiev Camera and ZK 50mm F2 on Ebay. Would love to know if it's fake. What worries me is it is in really good condition for a lens and camera from 1950.
http://StevenWetherbee.zenfolio.com/...7334/slideshow
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Old 02-13-2015   #618
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I'm not an expert but a few indicators look good to me.

- Lens has the two ears on the aperture
- foot on the camera back appears to be the early contax version
- Focusing knob has two ridges
- Script on the body is appropriate for the serial number
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Old 04-16-2015   #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wetherbeephoto View Post
Just bought this Kiev Camera and ZK 50mm F2 on Ebay. Would love to know if it's fake. What worries me is it is in really good condition for a lens and camera from 1950.
http://StevenWetherbee.zenfolio.com/...7334/slideshow
Post WW2 built lenses are never faked, and ESPECIALLY Kiev mounted ones, no real logic in it at all.

That looks like a normal original 1950 Kiev "Sonnar Style" lens, probably also made with some left over parts from Contax from WW2.

The M39 LTM Leica Mount Sonnar's are what's always in question and contrary to that one website online (with so much misinformation) I think that 85/90% of all the M39 lenses that come onto the modern market are the real deal, many of them are POST WW2 Russian Army Of Occupation lenses, which are only differnet in build date from their WW2 German build counterparts.....the internal components are the same as the 1941 to 1943 assembled lenses.

Tom
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Old 06-04-2015   #620
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Sorry to revive an old thread.
I have a Sonnar 5cm f2 collapsible and I would like to take out the front element only to clean it. How can this be done? is it easy? Is the front name plate a screw in retaining ring for the front element?
Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 06-04-2015   #621
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Yes, the name-ring is the retaining ring for the front element, same as on my Sonnar 50/1.5 and Jupiter-3 lenses. Though the element sometimes might not want to drop out on its own immediatly.
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Old 06-05-2015   #622
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Out for rubbers. I will have to use a rubber to get a grip on it. Unfortunately it does not have any notches as the 1.5 to get it out with a spanner.
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Old 10-18-2015   #623
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recently purchased a ZK Sonnar 1947 5cm f2.0 RED P with a 1948 made kiev II i understand it isn't war-time (nor LTM) but i see so many times it mentioned in this thread.

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Old 10-20-2015   #624
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Yes, a bit OT.
But a 1947 Kiev II with a 1947 ZK: that is exceptional!
Could you give the serial number of the body?

Thanks. Jacques.
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Old 10-20-2015   #625
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I have also a ZK and a Kiev. I need to check out the production years for them.
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Old 10-20-2015   #626
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Quote:
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recently purchased a ZK Sonnar 1947 5cm f2.0 RED P with a 1947 made kiev II i understand it isn't war-time (nor LTM) but i see so many times it mentioned in this thread.

Alert, many later Jupiters M39 were faked into '1947 3K' models with a layout on the front ring that is identical to this one.

Simple task, just unscrew the original beauty ring and install this '1947' type and up goes the sales value... The M39 version of Jupiters and the Contax mount version have identical optical blocks, including filter thread etc... You may have bought a fake.
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Old 10-20-2015   #627
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I think that I got a Kiev with a 50/2 and the ZK 50/1.5 was bought separately. Brian could not tell if it was genuine or fake. He would have to open it up.
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Old 10-20-2015   #628
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BTW Johan, I always have the fake 1947 ZK. Good looking on an early Zorki and soft for shooting!

This camera seems a genuine 1947 Kiev, with the black disc under the timer. The bag too. So, why not the lens? Note that the problem of genuiness is rather for LTM lenses...
If Rax can give us the s/n, we'll know more about it.

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Old 10-22-2015   #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques M. View Post
Yes, a bit OT.
But a 1947 Kiev II with a 1947 ZK: that is exceptional!
Could you give the serial number of the body?

Thanks. Jacques.
unfortunately the camera is from 1948 and that was a typo! serial is 48612!
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Old 10-22-2015   #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannielscom View Post
Alert, many later Jupiters M39 were faked into '1947 3K' models with a layout on the front ring that is identical to this one.

Simple task, just unscrew the original beauty ring and install this '1947' type and up goes the sales value... The M39 version of Jupiters and the Contax mount version have identical optical blocks, including filter thread etc... You may have bought a fake.
i don't think fake collapsible contax-rf mount jupiter 8 is exist and the lens is exactly like the pictures on sovietcam's website. it is not logical to make a lens from the scratch (collapsible with rf mount) pair them with 1948 made kiev II and no one else ever buy or seen one of these! if someone make such effort it is worth than a genie 1947 3z imho
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Old 10-22-2015   #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques M. View Post
BTW Johan, I always have the fake 1947 ZK. Good looking on an early Zorki and soft for shooting!

This camera seems a genuine 1947 Kiev, with the black disc under the timer. The bag too. So, why not the lens? Note that the problem of genuiness is rather for LTM lenses...
If Rax can give us the s/n, we'll know more about it.

Amitiés. Jacques.
it has Dresden-style rewinding button so it is second one in this page:
http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?-927109500

mine is in very good condition compare to that pic! i should send a new pic to them

the camera with kiev written in bold font:


the bottom of the lens:

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Old 10-22-2015   #632
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Congrats, Rax!
A camera already very rare. But much more in that condition!
As a collector I would be happy to own a 1947 Kiev in poor state!

Amitiés. Jacques.
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Old 11-18-2016   #633
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How do I unscrew the optic module on my CZJ Sonnar 5cm f1,5 to check for the serial numbers as described in this thread. I am loathe to damage the lens due to ignorance. Thanks Michael.
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Old 11-18-2016   #634
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Quote:
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How do I unscrew the optic module on my CZJ Sonnar 5cm f1,5 to check for the serial numbers as described in this thread. I am loathe to damage the lens due to ignorance. Thanks Michael.
Michael, you should be able to just take the lens by the lens mount in one hand and grab the lens carefully by front rim ahead of the aperture ring with the other hand and twist counterclockwise.

The optical cell including the aperture control will unscrew from the lens mount.

Don't put any force on the delicate aperture control.
Don't use violence or excessive force.
Before unscrewing the optical cell you should set the lens to it's widest aperture and take note (take a picture) how exactly it aligns with all indices of the lens.
Before actually unscrewing, set the aperture somewhere in the middle to prevent accidental force on the aperture linkage when unscrewing.
Careful, your lens may have a shim between optical cell and focus mount - don't lose that shim!
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Old 02-01-2017   #635
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carl zeiss 1942 by joel durand, sur Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 02-01-2017   #636
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Hello again on this forum.

I read with great attention this thread on the sonnars.
I bought in the city of Paris this sonnar N 2810969
Brass body, apparently on a support of leitz elmar?
The lenses are superb without fog
A little info?
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