Professional review of M9 Monochrome

[leicashot]

Originally Posted by bobbyrab

Not really an appropriate image to be discussing the technical aspects of thousands of pounds worth of camera equipment.

Man, seriously what is going on with this forum. I don't understand the modern rangefinder photographer. If this image is offensive, the moderators are free to remove it....next time It'll be a picture of a cat

[funkydog]

Originally Posted by bobbyrab

Not really an appropriate image to be discussing the technical aspects of thousands of pounds worth of camera equipment.

Ah stuff political correctness. This is neither the first nor the last photo ever of a destitute person shot with a camera that's worth more than the clothes on the said poor person's back.

Isn't it even more elitist to suggest by reverse implication that expensive cameras should only be used to photograph rich people?

[leicashot]

I think bobbyrab was implying that I was showing off my expensive camera to my subjects as i was shooting, then ran them over in my Rolls Royce. Maybe next time I should use a disposable camera and have it approved by my subjects to ensure its also within 'their' budget too. I've been back on this forum for a day and I'm already getting attacked for contributing.....swell crowd that reminds me why i left in the first place.

[ChrisN]

K, don't let it get to you. Some of the people around here these days just have a massive downer on anything Leica, and especially the M9 and MM. They've chased some good people away from this forum, which is a real loss. Too much envy and bitterness. Best to ignore them, and just continue the conversation with those who want to contribute something.

[Keith]

If you're still around Kristian?

What do you think of the MM's tendency to blow highlights and how hard is it going to be to judge exposure because of this? Resolution is neither here nor there IMO because it seems more than adequate but some of those blowouts in Seal's flickr stream are quite severe ... though they were shot in what looked like quite difficult lighting and obviously he's still getting used to the camera!.

[leicashot]

Originally Posted by Keith

If you're still around Kristian?

What do you think of the MM's tendency to blow highlights and how hard is it going to be to judge exposure because of this? Resolution is neither here nor there IMO because it seems more than adequate but some of those blowouts in Seal's flickr stream are quite severe ... though they were shot in what looked like quite difficult lighting and obviously he's still getting used to the camera!.

Hey Keith still here

I'm not seeing anything that looks out of the ordinary to be honest. I have no reason to think the MM has less dynamic range than other current cameras.

I honestly don't see any advantages of tones or disadvantages of exposure or dynamic range. The overexpsoure I'm seeing is the result of either exposing for the mid-shadows, which would blow out any scene if the lighting was strong, or some inaccurate metering choices by the photographer(s).

The other issue when analysing these pictures is that:
a. We don't know what processing was done, and
b. Because they were shot in b+w it's more difficult to see what 'type' of light it was shot in, by not being able to see the color temperature.

The last point is very important in determining how much the sensor is recording. i.e more tonal range can ge recorded around sunset, compared to midday, giving the appearance of extended dynamic range. Most of thee shots were not taken in such light.

I seriously doubt that Leica would release a b+w camera that has less dynamic range than the M9, especially when charging a premium price over the color version. Now I'm not defending Leica or praising them, but until I can get my hands on one and compare it to my D800E, I won't be praising or bashing the product. All we can do is make assumptions and not even serious ones.

I would bet though that the D800E with the top Zeiss lenses would resolve more detail, but that's not the point. A potential buyer of the MM (who intends to use it regularly) would be buying it for reasons other than just detail - tonal range potential, nostalgia, simplicity, size, weight and the M-system.

[bobbyrab]

Originally Posted by leicashot

I think bobbyrab was implying that I was showing off my expensive camera to my subjects as i was shooting, then ran them over in my Rolls Royce. Maybe next time I should use a disposable camera and have it approved by my subjects to ensure its also within 'their' budget too. I've been back on this forum for a day and I'm already getting attacked for contributing.....swell crowd that reminds me why i left in the first place.

I've got no axe to grind with you Kristian, and as a long time Leica user do I have any grudge against Leica.
Personally I sit on the side of the fence that thinks there is no worth in photographing beggars unless it's part of a project that might have something to say on the subject, but just to photograph someone at their lowest point is in my opinion a worthless exercise be it with a cheap or an expensive camera. Nor do I see it as a wealth issue, by definition beggars are poor, no it's the loss of dignity of the beggars that I don't feel comfortable with, but that's my personal view and I have never before criticised anyone else for doing so.
However I did think it crass to use such a photo as an example of the prowess of your latest camera kit. Ok maybe it's just me and i have a lower threshold than you, but I'm sure there would be images your familiar with that you would think were inappropriate to discuss the technical aspects of gear, is there a line you wouldn't cross?
Finally I've no idea what's happened to you in the past on this forum, but this is not a personal attack.

[leicashot]

Originally Posted by bobbyrab

I've got no axe to grind with you Kristian, and as a long time Leica user do I have any grudge against Leica.
Personally I sit on the side of the fence that thinks there is no worth in photographing beggars unless it's part of a project that might have something to say on the subject, but just to photograph someone at their lowest point is in my opinion a worthless exercise be it with a cheap or an expensive camera. Nor do I see it as a wealth issue, by definition beggars are poor, no it's the loss of dignity of the beggars that I don't feel comfortable with, but that's my personal view and I have never before criticised anyone else for doing so.
However I did think it crass to use such a photo as an example of the prowess of your latest camera kit. Ok maybe it's just me and i have a lower threshold than you, but I'm sure there would be images your familiar with that you would think were inappropriate to discuss the technical aspects of gear, is there a line you wouldn't cross?
Finally I've no idea what's happened to you in the past on this forum, but this is not a personal attack.

Bobby thanks for the explanation and I do understand where you're coming from. But you make one assumption that is untrue. This picture was not a one-off pic of a beggar. It is part of a longer-term project that comes from a good place I believe. I posted this picture because it's what I felt like posting and wasn't using it as a demonstration of the camera's ability, but more so my own.

Inappropriate images used to discuss technical aspects is not something I really think about because I'm far from being a professional reviewer. I have my opinions but I focus more on the photography these days and try less to be involved in such technical talk that doesn't contribute to the improvement of my work.

The issues in the past probably refer to other forums and not this one specifically, but I'm starting to grow tired of the modern Leica and street photographers that come to forums with a superiority attitude and don't contribute positively. While you may think my picture has a negative message, you assumed wrong. Maybe I should have put a caption, and I honestly didn't think much about it other than wanting to share a picture that i feel strongly about.

Either way, misunderstandings happen often and I'm glad we talked it out professionally

[bobbyrab]

I probably should have asked a few questions before posting as I did, it was very much a knee jerk reaction. I don't have a problem with the image per se, and certainly not if it's in a larger context. So I'm sorry if I caused offence.
This sort of image has been on my mind more since I come across a guy in Italy who runs photography courses, He takes groups of photographers to India where they head for the poorer districts of the city, presumably to teach them the aesthetics of photographing poverty. He had a video of him tutoring a group of photographers to a man wearing multi pocketed photo vests. It did rather look like they were on a safari, and some might say that they are.

[leicashot]

Originally Posted by bobbyrab

I probably should have asked a few questions before posting as I did, it was very much a knee jerk reaction. I don't have a problem with the image per se, and certainly not if it's in a larger context. So I'm sorry if I caused offence.
This sort of image has been on my mind more since I come across a guy in Italy who runs photography courses, He takes groups of photographers to India where they head for the poorer districts of the city, presumably to teach them the aesthetics of photographing poverty. He had a video of him tutoring a group of photographers to a man wearing multi pocketed photo vests. It did rather look like they were on a safari, and some might say that they are.

Hey any offense taken is forgotten and I know it wasn't intentional.

Yeah those kinds of Safari's just aren't right. That is something for individuals to do and certainly not the environment where teaching should be done. Coming from a celebrity-entertainment background, I find the contrast just what I need to find balance in my photography and street and documentary is where it all started for me and that is why I shoot what I do.

Anyway, back on topic.....

[Richard G]

That's good. It is an impressive shot.

[viramati]

I agree +1

[BobYIL]

We must try to think in a more fair way: "If Krystian had not shoot it then would it be possible to see something similar in our own surroundings? If he had no shoot it but tried to describe by writing ten pages about it, would it still be this striking?"

I hold photography as being the "short-cut" and most honest way to make others see what we see... and the photographer as an observer in pursue of recording the coincidences created by form and time -may the subject be what it will, even cruel truths- worth to preserve by making them look aesthetically noteworthy.

[olle]

Originally Posted by leicashot

but I'm starting to grow tired of the modern Leica and street

This hits the nail on the head, I don't think it's only this drum either.

A few of the Leica ’street photographers' that I've met around the traps have had that attitude problem towards me as I shoot with an "inferior" M8...

Don't get me tarted on hipsters either...

[icebear]

Originally Posted by olle

....
A few of the Leica ’street photographers' that I've met around the traps have had that attitude problem towards me as I shoot with an "inferior" M8.......

Just smile and let them feel superior, the message is in the shot taken, not in the tool itself... You also have a..holes behind the sterring wheels of expensive cars and they don't know how to park if not valet .