Leica M4-2 base plate?
Old 01-10-2017   #1
mcf
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Leica M4-2 base plate?

I've just bought my first Leica (yippee!) I did the research on the M4-2 (cost was a factor), and I'm not bothered by the stories afflicting this camera (figuring the ones still around have likely been serviced in the last 40 yrs or obviously not right). Anyway, I bought it from a reputable London Leica reseller so there's 28 days warranty.

My question to the wise amongst you is: the camera came attached to a winder without the camera's original base plate, therefore, I can only shoot with the winder attached at the moment. I'm trying to source a base plate. So, does it have to be a base plate made for the M4-2 only? Or, can any base plate from the M4-2 up to the M6 work?

Also, if anyone can point me in the right direction to buy one, I'd be doubly appreciative! (UK and soon-not-to-be European based).

Also, anything else worth looking out for within my 28 days warranty? Looks like it's in good condition save for a few bits of outer leathering breaks (pretty minor). I'll sell the winder once I get the base plate.

Thanks
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Old 01-10-2017   #2
mpaniagua
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Congratz. My M6 base plate fits on my M4-P so most likely it will fit M4-2.

Regards.

Marcelo
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Old 01-10-2017   #3
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Good luck with your M4-2!

When I bought mine in 2011, it looked lovely but had been sitting unused for quite some time. I noticed that the rangefinder collimation was off and it seemed a bit 'sticky' (variably inaccurate). I had the viewfinder/rangefinder serviced for US$100. The tech told me that it was full of dirt and dried out lubricant; he cleaned all the optics and mechanicals, lubricated it properly, collimated it, and set up the calibration. Now it looks crisp and clean, like new, and focuses perfectly.

While at it he checked my shutter on the tester. It's acceptable ... needs an overhaul, really, because it drags a little at the opening side and races a little on the closing side causing side to side exposure variation at 1/1000, 1/500 and 1/250 settings (about .7EV, .5EV, .2EV respectively). I've not found it bothersome yet, but eventually I'll have the curtains replaced and the mechanism cleaned and calibrated for tighter accuracy.

You can do some exposure tests to verify the shutter operation in lieu of a shutter testing apparatus: set up on a tripod and shoot a white wall at each exposure tuple from 1/1000 sec down to 1 sec, process film, check that exposures are about even shot to shot and that gradient from one side of the frame to the other is within reason.

Beyond that, use the camera and see that everything is working to your satisfaction. Usually two-three rolls of film in a range of picture taking circumstances will do it ... :-)

G
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Old 01-10-2017   #4
xayraa33
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RFF member Benmacphoto had a chrome M4 baseplate for sale up to 8 days ago here on the classifieds. That should fit your M4-2 if you don't mind a colour mismatch.
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Old 01-10-2017   #5
Fraser
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Even m2 and m3 will fit.
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Old 01-10-2017   #6
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The M4-2 can be a good entrance into interchangeable lens RF cameras. My personal experience was that no manner how good the camera looks you really have to check it out carefully. I paid a premium price for a near mint sample only to have the slow speeds pack up a month later. Since it was a private party sale at a photo show there was no choice but to send it to Youxin Ye for service, a complete flush and re-lube of the slow speed escapement, a $200 extra expense. Wasn't a total loss as he said mine was in good condition generally. These cameras are at least 37 years old by now so a service check will not be uncommon, especially if they have sat unused for extended periods of time.
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Old 01-10-2017   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraser View Post
Even m2 and m3 will fit.
The spool end on the baseplate is different on those two from the quick load system of the M4 series and later model cameras.

Having said that, I never tried fitting my M3 baseplate on my M4-2 body. For all I know it might work fine.
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Old 01-10-2017   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
The spool end on the baseplate is different on those two from the quick load system of the M4 series and later model cameras.

Having said that, I never tried fitting my M3 baseplate on my M4-2 body. For all I know it might work fine.
Agree. Most likely a M4-P or a M6 base plate will fit.
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Old 01-10-2017   #9
mpaniagua
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Yeah, just confirmed, M3 base plate is different. So you will be good with either a M4-P or M6 base plate.

Regards.

Marcelo
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Old 01-10-2017   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
The spool end on the baseplate is different on those two from the quick load system of the M4 series and later model cameras.

Having said that, I never tried fitting my M3 baseplate on my M4-2 body. For all I know it might work fine.
it is different but will still work fine.
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Old 01-10-2017   #11
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Thanks for the answers everyone. I'll play it safe and try and get a M4-P or M6 one (if not an M4-2 one).

Regarding testing this beauty in 28 days, I intend to do that as best I can. I've just gone out and around East London (at night, in the cold) and shot a roll of Delta 3200 @ 6400 (developing the roll as I type!) Possibly not the best roll/conditions to test in! Anyway, when I get back home at the end of the week, I'll do a few focus and exposure tests etc. Anything reasonably quantifiable that anyone can recommend, I'm all ears.
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Old 01-10-2017   #12
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be sure to post some pics from the roll.

Regards.

Marcelo
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Old 01-10-2017   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpaniagua View Post
be sure to post some pics from the roll.

Regards.

Marcelo
I will as soon as I can get back home and scan them on Friday
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Old 01-10-2017   #14
Dez
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I'd be a bit leery of an M2 or 3 baseplate. They will fit, but won't have the part to close the film retaining "tulip", so film take up may not be reliable. I think it's M4 or later you require.

Cheers
Dez
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Old 01-10-2017   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dez View Post
I'd be a bit leery of an M2 or 3 baseplate. They will fit, but won't have the part to close the film retaining "tulip", so film take up may not be reliable. I think it's M4 or later you require.

Cheers
Dez
From what I've read, it because the M4-2 (I think) was the first to introduce the ability to use a winder, so the baseplate is a bit different. Hence, maybe even steer clear of the original M4 baseplate?
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Old 01-10-2017   #16
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Any baseplate from a camera with a tulip-style takeup is what you want (i.e., not M1, M2, or M3.)
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Old 01-10-2017   #17
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I bought my m4p without a baseplate and used a m2/m3 base for a few months until I found a black chrome one (could be m42, m4p or m4), the only reason I mention this is just incase you find a cheap m2/3 base at least it will work until you find a black chrome one.
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Old 01-10-2017   #18
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The M4-2 can be a good entrance into interchangeable lens RF cameras.
I like using mine as much as any of my other Leicas. I think it has one of the best, uncluttered VFs.
It's weird, but I enjoy the fact that is not as 'valuable' as the others as it makes it more of a tool and less of an object.
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Old 01-10-2017   #19
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I like using mine as much as any of my other Leicas. I think it has one of the best, uncluttered VFs.
It's weird, but I enjoy the fact that is not as 'valuable' as the others as it makes it more of a tool and less of an object.
yeah, get what you mean. Get the same feeling when using M4-P after the M6. When I handle the M6, I keep trying to avoid any scratches and the like. M4-P, I just concentrate on the shooting.

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Old 01-11-2017   #20
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Thumbs up

So, after 24 hrs and shooting with the winder on, I'm digging this M4-2 (not the winder!)

I've come from a Bessa R3A, which is a good camera indeed, but, well, there were too many little things that bugged me too soon about it (almost irrelevant framelines, silly strap lug positions, immoveable speed dial, shutter button sensitivity). However, the M4-2 is, I have to admit, sooo much better in feel and design. I was skeptical that it would be much different, but it's made the Bessa feel almost toy like to me now, which is a tad unfair.

Some funny little things I've noticed: winding on the film is bit more difficult because the crank sits snuggly against the dial and is hard to wind on in a instant, loading the film takes a little longer as well. Other than that, all's wonderful.

I'm still learning to meter on the fly. I got two what I thought would be wonderful street portraits last night that look like they're very underexposed on the negs, unfortunately. (Will scan on Friday).

Concerning the winder, mpaniagua may be able to help out this week so, big thumbs up to him and this forum!
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Old 01-11-2017   #21
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Originally Posted by mcf View Post
Some funny little things I've noticed: winding on the film is bit more difficult because the crank sits snuggly against the dial and is hard to wind on in a instant, loading the film takes a little longer as well. Other than that, all's wonderful.

I'm still learning to meter on the fly. I got two what I thought would be wonderful street portraits last night that look like they're very underexposed on the negs, unfortunately. (Will scan on Friday).
If you think winding on takes time, just wait till you have to rewind to change the film! :^) Boy that seems to take forever (worse still is the M3 though as its rewind knob is an older less ergonomic design).

As to metering on the fly I found it very "liberating" to use an un-metered Leica, meaning I did not have to worry about metering much. I had a hand held meter and quickly learned that light levels did not change much unless atmospheric conditions changed on the day. If I was street shooting at the beginning of the shoot, I would meter in sunlight, then meter in partial and again in full shade and remember those readings. Usually the partial shade would be one light value less than full sunlight and full shade two stops less or something like this (my memory is hazy on the details as it was a few years back).

If I started with the camera lens set at say f5.6 (a good general purpose setting for street shooting) together with a suitable shutter speed, I just adjusted the f stop or shutter speed up or down as required by my assessment of whether the subject was in full sun, partial shade or full shade then moved back to my starting (full sun) setting after the shot was taken. This became quick and instinctive and meant that I had to meter at the beginning of the shoot then could put it away and forget about it. Given print film's inherent flexibility this meant I seldom had problems. In fact in some ways it was more accurate than a meter as it meant I did not have to worry about a camera's meter being fooled by back-lighting.
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Old 01-11-2017   #22
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Originally Posted by peterm1 View Post
If you think winding on takes time, just wait till you have to rewind to change the film! :^) Boy that seems to take forever (worse still is the M3 though as its rewind knob is an older less ergonomic design).

As to metering on the fly I found it very "liberating" to use an un-metered Leica, meaning I did not have to worry about metering much. I had a hand held meter and quickly learned that light levels did not change much unless atmospheric conditions changed on the day. If I was street shooting at the beginning of the shoot, I would meter in sunlight, then meter in partial and again in full shade and remember those readings. Usually the partial shade would be one light value less than full sunlight and full shade two stops less or something like this (my memory is hazy on the details as it was a few years back).

If I started with the camera lens set at say f5.6 (a good general purpose setting for street shooting) together with a suitable shutter speed, I just adjusted the f stop or shutter speed up or down as required by my assessment of whether the subject was in full sun, partial shade or full shade then moved back to my starting (full sun) setting after the shot was taken. This became quick and instinctive and meant that I had to meter at the beginning of the shoot then could put it away and forget about it. Given print film's inherent flexibility this meant I seldom had problems. In fact in some ways it was more accurate than a meter as it meant I did not have to worry about a camera's meter being fooled by back-lighting.
All nice advice. I'm used to metering sans-light meter from using medium format. But medium format shooting is normally a lot slower compared to handheld street walking! Oh, and in the UK, light changes by the minute :|
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Old 01-11-2017   #23
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My first Leica was an M4-P. I've been through close to a dozen M bodies since, and now I'm back to an M4-2. The ELC bodies are fantastic, you'll absolutely love your M4-2. After all, it is the M body that saved the M line. Without it, Leica would probably be only making SLR's.

Definitely try to find an M4, M4-2/P, or an M6 plate. All should work without a problem.
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Old 01-11-2017   #24
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If you ever plan to bulk load film into an ixmoo, look for an early M6 base plate. Later M6 base plates do not support ixmoo but will work fine if factory loads is all you use. Good Luck, Joe
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Old 01-12-2017   #25
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Quote:
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Even m2 and m3 will fit.
But they won't work.
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Old 01-12-2017   #26
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If you haven't already then it's worth phoning any UK shops who deal in Leica, as spare parts are very often not listed, or are under the counter as it were. Eg. I've bought and sold spare parts from one of the stores listed below but at times have had to talk it out of them if the part is something they'll likely have use for in the future.

London - Aperture, Classic Camera, Mr Cad, Red Dot, Leica Mayfair, Park Cameras, Camera World, London Camera Exchange

Rest of UK - Ffordes, Harrison Camera, Hawks, Clifton, Peter Walnes, Real Camera, Robert White

I'd have no issue dealing with any of the above, and have done. Good luck with the search!
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Old 01-12-2017   #27
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But they won't work.
Yes they will
See my previous post I used an m2/3 base on an m4-p for a few months without any problems, it's not perfect but it will work.
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Old 01-12-2017   #28
mpaniagua
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Yes they will
See my previous post I used an m2/3 base on an m4-p for a few months without any problems, it's not perfect but it will work.
would you care to state "it's not perfect but it will work" mening? is it lose fitting? no full locking? It would be helpful knowing what would be missing if not using a M4-M6 base plate.

Thanks.

Marcelo
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Old 01-12-2017   #29
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would you care to state "it's not perfect but it will work" mening? is it lose fitting? no full locking? It would be helpful knowing what would be missing if not using a M4-M6 base plate.

Thanks.

Marcelo
The difference is that the m2/3 has a removable film spool, unlike m4 onwards have the quicker loading version.
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Old 01-12-2017   #30
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I'd suggest using the correct baseplate with the 'basket.'

There are differences in between M2 and M3 baseplates, too.

I posed this question to Youxin:

"Hi Youxin, are these baseplates usable on both M3 and M2, even though they are slightly different shapes where they fit into the spool?"

His reply:

"The upper one will fit both. The lower one will only fit M3, does not fit M2.
Regards,
Youxin"

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Old 01-12-2017   #31
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I just tried the base plate from my M3 on my M4-2.
It fits perfectly.

But as one has the tulip film load thingy, while the other camera has the removable spool, I don't know how it would function with film in it.
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Old 01-13-2017   #32
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Originally Posted by LukeBanks View Post
If you haven't already then it's worth phoning any UK shops who deal in Leica, as spare parts are very often not listed, or are under the counter as it were. Eg. I've bought and sold spare parts from one of the stores listed below but at times have had to talk it out of them if the part is something they'll likely have use for in the future.

London - Aperture, Classic Camera, Mr Cad, Red Dot, Leica Mayfair, Park Cameras, Camera World, London Camera Exchange

Rest of UK - Ffordes, Harrison Camera, Hawks, Clifton, Peter Walnes, Real Camera, Robert White

I'd have no issue dealing with any of the above, and have done. Good luck with the search!
Hey Luke, thanks for the list. I've pretty much rang/emailed/visited all of those on the list! Except for Hawks. Leica Mayfair have them as new, but want literally half the cost of the camera I bought, for one.

Other than the offers I've had from the kind members of this forum, the only warm lead in the UK is a Leica repair specialist, Malcolm Taylor. He thinks he will have one, but I need to call tomorrow to find out.
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Old 01-13-2017   #33
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As a brief interlude on my journey to finding a baseplate, here's a shot taken with my SECOND roll of film in the M4-2 (my first roll didn't turn out well!)



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Old 01-13-2017   #34
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I have some parts shipping to the U.K. on Monday, I am pretty sure there is an M4 baseplate in the box
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Old 01-13-2017   #35
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There's is someone on eBay selling four m4 bases at the moment.
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Old 01-13-2017   #36
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There's is someone on eBay selling four m4 bases at the moment.
Really? I can't find them. Do you have a link? I've set up Ebay to alert me as well, but nothing.
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Old 01-13-2017   #37
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I have some parts shipping to the U.K. on Monday, I am pretty sure there is an M4 baseplate in the box
Would be good to catchup with you later next week then, to find out? Straight M4 or M4-2/P?
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Old 01-13-2017   #38
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Really? I can't find them. Do you have a link? I've set up Ebay to alert me as well, but nothing.
eBay item number:262793898521

eBay item number:262793904759
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Old 01-13-2017   #39
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eBay item number:262793898521

eBay item number:262793904759
Brill, thanks! Don't know why I can't find that through searching (other than I never thought to use the German word for base plate!)

M4 specific by the looks of it.
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Old 01-13-2017   #40
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Brill, thanks! Don't know why I can't find that through searching (other than I never thought to use the German word for base plate!)

M4 specific by the looks of it.
He seems to have a few and he was selling an m4p top plate last week, not sure how to tell the difference between m4-2/p and m4 or even m6
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