Lots of M9s for sale....
Old 12-11-2016   #1
oldwino
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Lots of M9s for sale....

Is this in anticipation of the new M?
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Old 12-11-2016   #2
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that, and it's christmas time! good timing.

anyone noticed how few bessa r2a's are ever for sale?
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Old 12-11-2016   #4
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Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
They aren't giving them away LOL
Truth. I would have expected the prices to come down a bit by now.
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Old 12-11-2016   #5
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Good for me.
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Old 12-11-2016   #6
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Originally Posted by oldwino View Post
Is this in anticipation of the new M?
probably,

Once M10 specs are announced,
all of the other digital M mount Leicas will probably take a hit on resale.
-- depending upon what the M10 actually turns out to be --

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Old 12-11-2016   #7
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Lots of M9s NOT for sale in the UK.
Indeed I cannot recall a time when so few are in the dealers very few 240s either. Have they all been snapped up by overseas buyers due to our recent currency drop perhaps?
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Old 12-11-2016   #8
Richard G
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In some ways an M10 kills M9 sales. If you're one off the pace and think you must have the quieter, sharper, longer (battery life) latest in the Type 240/246 you might be tempted to 'upgrade' as many have. But when those cameras are relegated to a mere step on what is inevitabky not a sequence finishing soon, or ever, then the 240/6 loses its lustre. Then, like me, you reflect on the miracle of the M9 and the wonder of the original Monochrom, and you are quite content to sit with your current stable. Which, after all, consists of a lot of other superseded models, 10, 20, 60 and 80 years old and also all still in use and giving great satisfaction.
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Old 12-11-2016   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aizan View Post
that, and it's christmas time! good timing.

anyone noticed how few bessa r2a's are ever for sale?
Nice that someone else has noticed this. Just r3 and r4 models.

I was just telling my friend that I hope the m9 price drops when the m10 comes out, I'd love one.
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Old 12-11-2016   #10
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Many M9 price drop hopes have been expressed here over the years (after this or that new camera coming to market). I remember this because I was one of those hopefuls
M9 always held its price stubbornly well, and don't believe some dramatic change overnight.
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Old 12-11-2016   #11
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Originally Posted by Hogarth Ferguson View Post
Nice that someone else has noticed this. Just r3 and r4 models.
The r2 is nothing special and these cameras are not really repairable. So you get the price equivalent of a burger for that and no one sells them. The r3 and r4 are special and you get a better price for it.
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Old 12-11-2016   #12
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When the M11 comes out, the price of the M10 will come down .... [this is the market]
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Old 12-11-2016   #13
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When the M11 comes out, the price of the M10 will come down .... [this is the market]
The market doesn't seem to be working that way with the film Leica's. A beautiful M9P just sold in the classifieds for $2,700. there is another nice looking M9 around the same price range.

Then there is an M4P listed around $400 cheaper & an MP that seems to hold their prices well above any other Leica M ever produced, film or digital.

Not complaining just amazed how a film M camera holds their price.
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Old 12-11-2016   #14
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Question

I must have been missing something. Lots of missing on my side.
I checked M9 on e-bay. Dozen came. Four and half worth to open and look at. RFF Classifieds have what, three, four M9 on sale, with half of them as listed on ebay as well?
Where is this "lots of M9s for sale...." ?
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Old 12-12-2016   #15
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Originally Posted by aizan View Post
anyone noticed how few bessa r2a's are ever for sale?
How many were purchased in the first place....
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Old 12-12-2016   #16
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Then there is an M4P listed around $400 cheaper & an MP that seems to hold their prices well above any other Leica M ever produced, film or digital.
Can you explain this? $400 cheaper than what?
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Old 12-12-2016   #17
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Originally Posted by jarski View Post
Many M9 price drop hopes have been expressed here over the years (after this or that new camera coming to market). I remember this because I was one of those hopefuls
M9 always held its price stubbornly well, and don't believe some dramatic change overnight.
The M9, and its derivatives, are unique cameras, which are rather unlikely to be directly replaced by a new CCD-based Leica M. As such, depreciation is unlikely to affect them nearly as much as it has affected the M240 and derivates, since there's really nothing particularly special about those cameras (nice, though they may be).

I love my M-E, and would love to add an MM, but I have next to no interest in any current Leica M. The M10 may or may not change that.
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Old 12-12-2016   #18
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The 5Dc prices held relatively well till the 5DIII came out. When the M10 comes out the prices will plummet as people look to move to the M240/262 generation of cameras from the M9 while the M240/262 owners who can afford it dump their cameras to move to the new model and M9 owners who have been holding out for something better than the M240.
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Old 12-12-2016   #19
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Originally Posted by gb hill View Post
The market doesn't seem to be working that way with the film Leica's. A beautiful M9P just sold in the classifieds for $2,700. there is another nice looking M9 around the same price range.

Then there is an M4P listed around $400 cheaper & an MP that seems to hold their prices well above any other Leica M ever produced, film or digital.

Not complaining just amazed how a film M camera holds their price.
Again, the economics here are very similar to those affecting the M9. While Leica does still make a film M, an M4P or any other M takes the same lenses and the same film. There's simply no downward pressure on the cost of those bodies, and the best of them (the MP certainly counts among the best) will continue to demand high prices because, well, people want the best.

It also helps that the technology in the M4P (or any film M, really) hasn't been markedly improved upon in the M-A (for example). Yes, the M-A has a nicer VF and looks nice, but it doesn't fundamentally do anything that the M2 or M4 doesn't already do. The MP, one might argue, is actually the M with the best features of all; meter, improved VF, brass internals.

Anyway, there's a good reason why film M's hold their price; there's nothing else like them.
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Old 12-12-2016   #20
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Lots of M9's for sale,
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldwino View Post
Is this in anticipation of the new M?
If a lot is 3 or 4 in the last month or so then yes but it's hardly an off load. I prefer the M9 sensor as do plenty of others and I don't see prices dropping by much on the release of any new M.
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Old 12-12-2016   #21
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The 5Dc prices held relatively well till the 5DIII came out. When the M10 comes out the prices will plummet as people look to move to the M240/262 generation of cameras from the M9 while the M240/262 owners who can afford it dump their cameras to move to the new model and M9 owners who have been holding out for something better than the M240.
I disagree. There will some downward movement on M9 prices, given that some percentage of M9 shooters are holding out for something better than the M240 (which can already be had for a comparative bargain).

But my experience has been that a lot of people shoot the M9 because it's an M9. It doesn't really fit the same economic model as all other digital cameras.

I'd expect a modest price drop, at most.
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Old 12-12-2016   #22
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I've seen M9s around the $2000 mark at the lowest (a friend bought one 3 months ago with a replaced sensor/shutter for $2100). I'm almost willing to bet that they'd hover around that on average once the M10 becomes readily available and not "backordered."
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Old 12-13-2016   #23
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Can you explain this? $400 cheaper than what?
Cheaper than the M9 that was listed in the classified. The topic is about the M9.
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Old 12-13-2016   #24
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But my experience has been that a lot of people shoot the M9 because it's an M9. It doesn't really fit the same economic model as all other digital cameras.

I'd expect a modest price drop, at most.
we should start betting on how much it will drop.
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Old 12-14-2016   #25
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Originally Posted by aizan View Post
we should start betting on how much it will drop.
I would... but I can't figure out how to 'short' the M9 market.

So, where are the new customers coming from?

Maybe M9 owners who want a back-up body? The tail end of Leica owners who are interested in using less film?

Younger, new owners are unlikely to be swayed by the 'CCD-sensor-is-special' school of thought. If they have experience with newer, non-Leica digital cameras, they will want the signal-to-noise ratio and dynamic range of the M240/M262. That's what they are use to. A new to Leica owner is a niche of a niche. A new to Leica owner who believes the CCD adds value is a niche of a niche of a niche.

Status, luxury oriented buyers will not be interested in M9s... specially if the Asian market is has moved on.

Current M8 users (not necessarily the same as owners with one in the closet) would have switched a long time ago if they weren't in perfectly content with their M8s.
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Old 12-16-2016   #26
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2100 and cheaper? Wow that's good. I just bought an M9 from someone in the Classifieds for 2300 with brand new sensor and thought I was getting a deal.
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Old 12-16-2016   #27
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What I've seen in the last couple of month is, that the difference between an M9 with old sensor and an M9 with new sensor is about 300-400 EUR. That's what people are obviously willing to pay for the fact that they don't have to send the camera to Wetzlar and wait some weeks.
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Old 12-16-2016   #28
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2100 and cheaper? Wow that's good. I just bought an M9 from someone in the Classifieds for 2300 with brand new sensor and thought I was getting a deal.
....You did.
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Old 12-16-2016   #29
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So, where are the new customers coming from?
Current M8 users (not necessarily the same as owners with one in the closet) would have switched a long time ago if they weren't in perfectly content with their M8s.
I am far from perfectly content with my M8, which is not in the closet and does get used, and abused (verbally), but the price leap to the current offerings from Leica does not provide the step up I am looking for.
Having shot recently with a D500 and a CFV50c, two very different animals but boy the output, the current sensors from Leica are too far back on the quality curve against cost to attract me. I will look at the M10 of course and that could tempt me but in the right light and especially in monochrome the M8 offers enough.
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Old 12-16-2016   #30
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the current sensors from Leica are too far back on the quality curve against cost to attract me.
I can understand that, but I have not found any digital camera of any vintage capable of producing the same objective quality of an ISO 160-400 file from the M9/M9-P/M-E sensor. Above that, things go downhill quickly, but there's no question that, for me, the M9 is one of the best daylight cameras ever made.
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Old 12-17-2016   #31
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I can understand that, but I have not found any digital camera of any vintage capable of producing the same objective quality of an ISO 160-400 file from the M9/M9-P/M-E sensor. Above that, things go downhill quickly, but there's no question that, for me, the M9 is one of the best daylight cameras ever made.
Yeah.

The M9 data stream has no significant disadvantages up to ISO 640.

Increased intentional underexposure (ISO > 640) when you 'do what he light meter tells you to do' is the reason: "Above that, things go downhill quickly, but there's no question that, for me, the M9 is one of the best daylight cameras ever made."
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