"M10" Price Impact
Old 11-24-2016   #1
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"M10" Price Impact

I know this is a bit early, however, I am quite eager to see the price impact of a totally redesigned M body on the previous generation digital M bodies. Fingers crossed it will drive the prices down on the M8 and M9 significantly more than the M240 did. If the M9 gets pushed down to current M8 prices, I might finally pull the trigger.

Might be something to think about for those putting holiday cash towards the purchase of an M8/9/240.
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Old 11-24-2016   #2
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Not gonna happen with the M8. The M8 has seen its bottom, too many people would rather keep it than sell it as evidenced by the second-hand market and the drought of M8's. I'd expect the M9 may see a slight drop but that has a devoted CCD full frame following as well.
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Old 11-24-2016   #3
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IMO. Even if M10 is true and coming (which I haven't seen as official, yet) it is most likely going to cost higher comparing to already pricey M240. And M240 was totally new sensor, LV, Video and else significant for common digital camera users while living M8/9 CCD and other outdates in technological dust. M10 is just going to be more proportional and this is most likely it. Same technology in new look, but more money.
In this case the M8/M9 aren't going to be adjusted by the market as significantly as you wish.
But time and age is the factor for all of them. If you can't buy Leica you want now, take your time!
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Old 11-24-2016   #4
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Selling my M8 now. Prices haven't changed much since I bought it about a year ago. I cant see them going any lower.

Also M9 prices seem to have stabilized, if not gone up. Trying to cover the upgrade means spending more than double the average price of an M8 these days.

Also asked about an M8.2 and the buyer wanted about $1000 over what Im selling my M8 for. Even had a classified response complaining over my "greed" for pricing alongside what an M8 would cost to buy from the US and have imported. Being its the only M8 FS in Toronto ATM I can price as I see fit.

Leica prices are a little all more all over the place these days than they normally are.
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Old 11-24-2016   #5
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Originally Posted by BLKRCAT View Post
Selling my M8 now. Prices haven't changed much since I bought it about a year ago. I cant see them going any lower.

Also M9 prices seem to have stabilized, if not gone up. Trying to cover the upgrade means spending more than double the average price of an M8 these days.

Also asked about an M8.2 and the buyer wanted about $1000 over what Im selling my M8 for. Even had a classified response complaining over my "greed" for pricing alongside what an M8 would cost to buy from the US and have imported. Being its the only M8 FS in Toronto ATM I can price as I see fit.

Leica prices are a little all more all over the place these days than they normally are.
Yeah, I bought an M8 in the UK a few months ago but that was after 4 months of the market having not many options and prices being a bit beyond my range. But those ones were still selling. Got a good deal on a used one for 760. Took awhile, but that one was discounted because it was a reskinned with brown leather and had a high shutter count, ~20,000. I still occasionally look and the prices are still very high.
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Old 11-24-2016   #6
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I think the M8 prices are stable, and the M9/M-E have actually gone up after people became aware of the new sensor. The M9 CCD look is very desirable and that is reflected in their now stable prices. It's the M240 that's taking the hit, and those prices will be deflated by the next M, not the M9 or M8.
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Old 11-24-2016   #7
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It's the M240 that's taking the hit, and those prices will be deflated by the next M, not the M9 or M8.
Agreed.

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Old 11-24-2016   #8
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Originally Posted by BLKRCAT View Post
...Even had a classified response complaining over my "greed" for pricing alongside what an M8 would cost to buy from the US and have imported. Being its the only M8 FS in Toronto ATM I can price as I see fit.
Before receiving M-E as BD gift in this September I was hoping to get M8 locally at the fair price. Yours is in this category for sure. Ignore lowballers!
It might take a while to sell it here. I often sell it on ebay first and local offers are suddenly coming after, closer to expiry date on Kijiji.
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Old 11-24-2016   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I think the M8 prices are stable, and the M9/M-E have actually gone up after people became aware of the new sensor. The M9 CCD look is very desirable and that is reflected in their now stable prices. It's the M240 that's taking the hit, and those prices will be deflated by the next M, not the M9 or M8.
Yes...........
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Old 11-29-2016   #10
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I think it will affect the prices of the M240 but not the M8 or M9. M8 and M9 with sensor change are probably going to be pretty stable in pricing because you either want a CCD or dont. The M10 will just be a better version of the M240 so that will lower the price of the m240. I plan on selling my M240 for the M10. But I will keep my M8. The only thing I would replace my M8 with is a M9 with upgraded sensor.
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Old 11-29-2016   #11
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I would think we will see the M8/M9 go down significantly in the next few years. The M240 will go down and these both will be effected by this. Most people are not buying a M8/M9 because it is CCD. Many would consider CCD to be a con (i.e. only a few consider it a pro or we'd have a lot more high end CCD cameras made). I think these bodies continue to have great used prices because the M240 is still $4000 used. That makes the M8/M9 the cheapest way to get a digital Leica.
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Old 11-30-2016   #12
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As long as we don't know what the hypothetical M10 is going to cost and what the concept/market positioning of the camera may be, speculations like these are surely futile.
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Old 11-30-2016   #13
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One thing I am sure of is that the pricing will not follow the financial model that Sony/Fuji and Olympus have recently adopted, where the new model costs about 40% more than the one it is replacing.
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Old 11-30-2016   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
As long as we don't know what the hypothetical M10 is going to cost and what the concept/market positioning of the camera may be, speculations like these are surely futile.
Nope, this is a forum for discussion. Futility in discussion doesn't fit this medium.
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Old 11-30-2016   #15
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As of now, there is no date for appearance of the new M. Even when announced, availability to most buyers will probably lag for many months. If a new M is announced early in 2017 and the price and upgrades are attractive, I would not expect prices to change on the earlier M cameras, including the M240, until late 2017 at the earliest.
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Old 11-30-2016   #16
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M8s are around $1500-1800 for a user, M9s $2500ish, M240s $3500.

There is a pattern here. Prices are stable for the moment because there hasn't been any serious offering from Leica recently that would un-seat the M240 for people buying new. I bought my M from a friend who didn't feel like he was being robbed at $2900.00 Once M240s are regularly $3000ish dollars, I would not expect a world of CCD die-hards to keep M9s so near their current price, and in turn, the M8. I would imagine once the M10 has been regularly available for a year or so that the M8 will see the $1300+/- price range. We're talking about a digital Leica that isn't full frame, with a screen that can't be repaired. IMO they're too expensive right now.
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Old 11-30-2016   #17
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Of course Leica prices will drop..eventually that is..esp if the new M is priced right and is a significant upgrade to the 240..which I'm sure L has already thought about..hence the delay..
I would think the 240 will take a good hit on this..and as the M8 gets older..and older...well..
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Old 12-01-2016   #18
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You're crazy if you think prices won't be affected. Like SaveKodak said, within a year of the M10 being released everything will drop by $500 or so. People said the 5Dc would never drop below $1000 and now they're sold in retail stores for $450. And that's a better camera than an M8.
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Old 12-01-2016   #19
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I was really considering an M8 as my first digital RF maybe a year ago. Prices were good, sometimes cheaper than the R-D1. It does seem that the M8 has gained back some of its price within the last year.
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Old 12-01-2016   #20
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Yup, the M8 has a very strong resale value right now and the market is limited so the price won't go down. Simple supply and demand.
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Old 12-01-2016   #21
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The supply won't be limited when M9 users start dumping their M9 for affordable M240s. It's a downward trickle, not upwards.
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Old 12-01-2016   #22
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Nah, the prices will stay stable and supply won't expand considerably.
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Old 12-01-2016   #23
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My experience of working in a photo retail environment tells me otherwise.
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Old 12-01-2016   #24
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I'd be so happy with an up to date R-D1 styled digital RF priced around $1600-1800, too much to ask?
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Old 12-01-2016   #25
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I'd be so happy with an up to date R-D1 styled digital RF priced around $1600-1800, too much to ask?
Yes, most likely.
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Old 12-02-2016   #26
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Originally Posted by brennanphotoguy View Post
The supply won't be limited when M9 users start dumping their M9 for affordable M240s. It's a downward trickle, not upwards.
What about the sensor replacement issue? We have no idea what fraction of the M9s out there have the second generation sensor. The originals will need replacement sooner or later and are less desirable. Knowledgeable buyers of units with the original sensor will factor future inconvenience into how much they are willing to pay.

I don't think M9 cameras will be dumped in significant numbers until the sensor replacement cycle is further along.
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Old 12-02-2016   #27
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Lol, the M8 is a relic and full of more problems than a sensor that Leica is fixing for free and can provide serials of M9s that have been serviced.
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Old 12-02-2016   #28
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What about the sensor replacement issue? We have no idea what fraction of the M9s out there have the second generation sensor. The originals will need replacement sooner or later and are less desirable. Knowledgeable buyers of units with the original sensor will factor future inconvenience into how much they are willing to pay.

I don't think M9 cameras will be dumped in significant numbers until the sensor replacement cycle is further along.
I am not at liberty to disclose numbers, but the percentage of cameras that are affected is far smaller than is usually supposed in the Forums. The supposition that in the end all M9 sensors will need to be replaced is incorrect.
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Old 12-03-2016   #29
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Lol, the M8 is a relic and full of more problems
It's a problem-free camera in my experience.
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Old 12-04-2016   #30
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I guess that having to use IR filters and a screen you can't replace aren't problems.
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Old 12-04-2016   #31
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I guess that having to use IR filters and a screen you can't replace aren't problems.
Good guess, they are not problems.

The screen, if it dies completely, may become a problem. A working screen is not a problem.
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Old 12-04-2016   #32
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IR filters, lol.
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Old 12-04-2016   #33
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I guess that having to use IR filters and a screen you can't replace aren't problems.
Well, you have a choice: use a camera with an effective IR filter in front of the sensor or one that has one in front of the lens. Which of the two gives the best image quality and the most versatility? One guess... Disclosure: I use IR filters on all my digital cameras since 2001 for best colours. It is not as if only Leica has inadequate IR filtering...
As for LCD screens: AFAIK the M8 screen is still replaceable. It is the one on the M8.2 that is the problem. Simple solution: don't hit it so hard that it breaks...
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Old 12-05-2016   #34
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If you wait for the price to meet your set budget you miss out on a digital Leica while waiting.
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Old 12-05-2016   #35
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My opinion and experience is different. I have seen or handled more M9 type of cameras with sensor issue then without.
I dare to say that sooner or later all M9 type of camera will require sensor replacement.
Perhaps a good place to list major Leica digital failures:

M8
IR filters
no replace rear screens just few years after start of production

M9/M9-P/Monochrom Mk I/ME
corroding sensor that took Leica well over year to officially acknowledge..

M240
strap lug falling out on the first batch of cameras

Leica M-D
new out of the box cameras with non working rear ISO dial

And those are only major ones..

Quote:
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I am not at liberty to disclose numbers, but the percentage of cameras that are affected is far smaller than is usually supposed in the Forums. The supposition that in the end all M9 sensors will need to be replaced is incorrect.
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Old 12-05-2016   #36
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As for LCD screens: AFAIK the M8 screen is still replaceable. It is the one on the M8.2 that is the problem. Simple solution: don't hit it so hard that it breaks...
It has nothing to do with that... it's the "coffee stain" issue and it is no longer being replaced by Leica.
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Old 12-05-2016   #37
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From my and my friends experience coffee stain issue occurs when camera is not used regularly and is gone once when you start using the camera more often.
Even when it is there it has no impact on usage of the screen.

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It has nothing to do with that... it's the "coffee stain" issue and it is no longer being replaced by Leica.
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Old 12-05-2016   #38
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From my and my friends experience coffee stain issue occurs when camera is not used regularly and is gone once when you start using the camera more often.
Even when it is there it has no impact on usage of the screen.
Sorry, but you are wrong... it is permanent and eventually fails completely and Leica will not repair it. Whatever you and your friends had was not this issue.
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Old 12-05-2016   #39
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Sorry JS, this is incorrect. There are many instances of the coffee stain healing itself and I have not seen any example of an LCD dying of it. I would be interested to learn of any cases.
The coffee stain is only found on later examples of the M8, as Leica had switched suppliers by then. AFAIK there are still spares for the earlier LCD available.
I find the idea about frequency of use an interesting one. Even if it is new to me, it is not impossible.
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Old 12-05-2016   #40
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Ok, I'll concede...
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