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Cameras in the Movies / TV / Media If you are a photographer, it's difficult not to appreciate movies too. In this forum you can discuss movies, as well as the cameras used in them. What camera used in what film / TV show etc has long been a topic of discussion at RFF. Whether the Exakta and 400mm Kilfitt lens in Hitchcock's Rear Window or the Nikons in Eastwood's Bridges of Madison County, cameras are tools which reflect the time and technology of the film.

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Old film - I love Casablanca for this look.
Old 05-02-2016   #1
dave lackey
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Old film - I love Casablanca for this look.

Film noir?
Just plain old black and white?

Maybe some film aficionados can educate me on this. But besides being the best movie of all time,... I love watching black and white movies with Bogart!

Does anyone know what film was used in the filming of Cassblanca?

It comes on TV tonight at 10pm. I am ready!

(On the TCM channel, Turner is wonderful for this.)
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Old 05-02-2016   #2
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Check out The Train.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Train_(1964_film)
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Old 05-02-2016   #3
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Yeah!!! Thanks, I have been looking for some old movies to watch, that looks excellent.
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Old 05-02-2016   #4
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I have wondered how the old films handled low light. I assume the films used in the 1940's were slow by today's standards so how they achieve focus and lighting so well has always caught my attention. I already had the box set to record Casablanca tonight. Joe
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Old 05-02-2016   #5
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Film noir.

It is time for me to get back to that style. Anybody else like the Film Noir style?
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Old 05-02-2016   #6
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Film noir.

It is time for me to get back to that style. Anybody else like the Film Noir style?
Love it! ....
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Old 05-02-2016   #7
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Love love love it. Not a noir but an incredibly beautiful black and white film is Persona by Bergman. Such a luminous quality to it that it becomes very dream like - Sven Nykvist really worked some magic there.
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Old 05-02-2016   #8
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What I like about the look of this movie is the cleanliness of the people and places...everyone is well dressed, hair combed, perfect makeup...so much so that if I were to photograph these people this is the look I would want...it's like every scene would make a beautiful print...
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Old 05-02-2016   #9
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Citizen Kane.
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Old 05-03-2016   #10
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There was an interesting documentary on TCM before Casablanca last night about the European exiles who left for Hollywood in the 1930s and brought with them the styles and techniques that became film noir.

Also, I have to recommend "The Third Man" as one of the best of the genre. I also quite like "Double Indemnity".
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Old 05-03-2016   #11
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Yes, to "The Third Man" but - if you want black comedy in colour - try "The Ladykillers" but not the remake...

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Old 05-03-2016   #12
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It does not have to be old. Check out "Good Night and Good Luck", I think it's lrss than 10 years old and filmed with B&W film.
Or "Young Frankenstein", also filmed in B&W.
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Old 05-03-2016   #13
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You should also watch Close Encounter. It's an outstanding film with surprising content matter for the period and the opening scene is just fantastic.
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Old 05-03-2016   #14
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You should also watch Close Encounter. It's an outstanding film with surprising content matter for the period and the opening scene is just fantastic.
Make that Brief Encounter!!!
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Old 05-03-2016   #15
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Casablanca was shot on Eastman Nitrate base film. At least I think so as Arthur Edeson was big on the Eastman brand. Other brands were out there... Dupont used to produce it too. They stopped production of Nitrate based films in the 50's

I think MOMA has an original copy otherwise every other version you see is a copy. Nitrate based films were very unstable and degraded quickly. They (the films) were even prone to erupting in flames.
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Old 05-03-2016   #16
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Cinematographers are really lighting directors. Some shoot the whole film at the widest aperture of their slowest lens.
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Old 05-03-2016   #17
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digital black and white cinema at it's best... outstanding example of digital's capability

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXhCaVqB0x0

Ryszard Lenczewski is the DOP (an Sony rx100 fan)
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Old 05-03-2016   #18
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Hi Dave, times ago there was a thread called film noir here on RFF, you can find something interesting there...http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ight=film+noir

Yes, the aesthetic of these old movies is really interesting, the light and shadow interplay, the grain, the framing...

As already suggested look for "the third man"...

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Old 05-03-2016   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02Pilot View Post
Also, I have to recommend "The Third Man" as one of the best of the genre..
Seems like it has been restored for re-released in 4k

https://youtu.be/r9yyDEDGlr0
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Old 05-03-2016   #20
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"Paths of Glory" by Stanley Kubrick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gyyGHHXfck

Use Eastman XX, Dave!
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Old 05-03-2016   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livesteamer View Post
I have wondered how the old films handled low light. I assume the films used in the 1940's were slow by today's standards so how they achieve focus and lighting so well has always caught my attention. I already had the box set to record Casablanca tonight. Joe
The light level was quite high in most scenes. A lot of the light came from carbon arc lights, 10,000 Watt and 5,000 Watt tungsten as well. . (Here's a little clip on the Mole Richardson carbon arc brute you might enjoy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d7bsCiRFLE )
Although the arc brute came after Casablanca very similar lights were used. The lighting directors really knew how to light back then and used contrast in lighting and exposure to control the look.

I agree these old films shot on B&W negative and printed on fine grain release stock were beautiful.
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Old 05-03-2016   #22
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"Casablanca was made during the nitrate film era, and each fine-grain master (FGM) was deposited in the dedicated Warner Bros. film labs on the East and West coasts. The vintage 35mm FGM held in West Coast storage currently resides at the UCLA Film and Television Archive, but now only three reels exist due to nitrate decomposition. The best, earliest surviving and complete material for this iconic film is the 35mm nitrate FGM in the MoMA Department of Film collection."


https://moma.org/explore/inside_out/...film-material/
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Old 05-03-2016   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenInTime View Post
Seems like it has been restored for re-released in 4k
"Deluxe Restoration, on behalf of Studiocanal, digitally restored the film from a fine grain master positive struck from the original negative. This sounds great, until you see the result. Carol Reed’s 1949 film noir, starring Joseph Cotton and featuring an unforgettable performance from Orson Welles, loses its shadowy intrigue when the restoration process oversteps the line of “making the film appear as it was originally intended,” using newfound digital tools to “clean up” the film. Skin tones look polished and movement is stabilized, giving the image a sharpness that was not originally there. In short, it begins to not look like film anymore."

http://uk.blouinartinfo.com/news/sto....DnNZGcHZ.dpuf
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Old 05-03-2016   #25
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My Favorite too. I have it on DVD, I'll bet I've watched it a hundred times. A masterpiece.
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Old 05-03-2016   #26
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1986's Down by Law
2012's Much Ado About Nothing
1986's She's Got to Have It
1980's Raging Bull

But, yeah. The Third Man is in a league of its own.
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Old 05-03-2016   #28
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Quote:
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My Favorite too. I have it on DVD, I'll bet I've watched it a hundred times. A masterpiece.
Yeah!

Hey, since I use Kodak 5222 XX exclusively, is there a way to obtain a film noire look with that film? Thought it might be fun to try a similar more noir-like film.
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Old 05-03-2016   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisLivsey View Post
"Deluxe Restoration, on behalf of Studiocanal, digitally restored the film from a fine grain master positive struck from the original negative. This sounds great, until you see the result. Carol Reed’s 1949 film noir, starring Joseph Cotton and featuring an unforgettable performance from Orson Welles, loses its shadowy intrigue when the restoration process oversteps the line of “making the film appear as it was originally intended,” using newfound digital tools to “clean up” the film. Skin tones look polished and movement is stabilized, giving the image a sharpness that was not originally there. In short, it begins to not look like film anymore."

http://uk.blouinartinfo.com/news/sto....DnNZGcHZ.dpuf
I tend to agree, based on the short trailer that was linked. It looks too clean, too smooth, too digital. So much of the beauty of that film (and many others) is the "grit" and imperfections. Not as egregious as the horrid Turner-backed colorizations, but not an improvement nonetheless.
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Old 05-03-2016   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave lackey View Post
Yeah!

Hey, since I use Kodak 5222 XX exclusively, is there a way to obtain a film noire look with that film? Thought it might be fun to try a similar more noir-like film.
Specular hard lighting is obvious throughout the film. I have three or four or five Photogenic Mini-Spots and they do a nice job. Used to use them for portraiture back in the '90's.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Photogenic-M...IAAOSwx-9W0ywx

I'm also a huge fan of the Rodenstock Imagon (I have Imagons in every focal length, 120mm to 480mm). In some of the Bacall close-ups I would not be surprised if an Imagon derivitive was used. It's a doublet with an H/Stop in the front portion. The highlights glow, the lower values stay very sharp. The classic "Imagon Effect".
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Old 05-03-2016   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokton48 View Post
Specular hard lighting is obvious throughout the film. I have three or four or five Photogenic Mini-Spots and they do a nice job. Used to use them for portraiture back in the '90's.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Photogenic-M...IAAOSwx-9W0ywx

I'm also a huge fan of the Rodenstock Imagon (I have Imagons in every focal length, 120mm to 480mm). In some of the Bacall close-ups I would not be surprised if an Imagon derivitive was used. It's a doublet with an H/Stop in the front portion. The highlights glow, the lower values stay very sharp. The classic "Imagon Effect".

Thanks, man!!! That is great information.

Bacall was really something. She was a perfect match for the noir look with her deep voice and oh-so sultry look!
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Old 05-03-2016   #32
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If you want a bizarre subversion of film noir tropes, try watching Beat The Devil. The humor was a bit too dry for audiences of the time, but it has aged nicely, and has some very funny performances by character actors of the time. Peter Lorre has one of the funniest scenes in the movie. I'm pretty sure it is in the public domain so it's not hard to find online (unfortunately this also means most copies are of low quality).

The lighting in these old movies is noticeably unrealistic, but that's where most of the look comes from.
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Old 05-03-2016   #33
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Max Ophuls was known for luscious black and white; check out "The Earings of Madame De..."
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Old 05-03-2016   #34
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You must remember that between negative that was used in a camera and transparency with final "cinema" version there was at least a few dup-negatives, copies, the whole post-process downgraded the quality and trying to mimic it is not an easy job.
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Old 05-03-2016   #35
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And of course "Casino Royale".
Filmed in XX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNvzNWuzI9Y
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Old 05-03-2016   #36
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And of course "Casino Royale".
Filmed in XX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNvzNWuzI9Y
My personal favorite!

Which leads me to stock up on some XX. If overreacts purchase 1000'-1200' of XX and store it in the freezer, how long could I keep it without problems?
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Old 05-03-2016   #37
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Of course, the lighting would be fun to figure out. Now ya got me interested!
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Old 05-03-2016   #38
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My personal favorite!

Which leads me to stock up on some XX. If overreacts purchase 1000'-1200' of XX and store it in the freezer, how long could I keep it without problems?
In a deep freeze, it would never degrade a bit.

I buy 400', there is no cost advantage to getting 1000'
Unless you are making a movie
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Old 05-03-2016   #39
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Film noir? I have the Film Noir Addicts Anonymous in my facebook feed.

One of my favorites is "The Big Sleep" with Bogart. From Raymond Chandler's (seem my avatar ) book.
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Old 05-03-2016   #40
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I also like "The Maltese Falcon".
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