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Which Fuji for an M9 user?
Old 03-09-2016   #1
nightfly
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Which Fuji for an M9 user?

Been aware of the Fujis for awhile but never had too much interest. However I'm looking for a lighter, smaller and less expensive alternative for my m9 for travel and the Fuji offerings are so numerous I figured someone here has probably already gone through this.

Basically, want something that will get out of my way as much as possible, that I can use manually like the m9. Don't want to mess around with menus. Will shoot mostly color. Probably RAW but the Chrome setting looks intriguing. I generally like the color quality of the RAW files from the M9 for their film like, Kodachrome look.

I'm not concerned with ridiculously high iso or anything like that. Probably buy 1 or 2 lenses for travel, something on the wider side and something on the longer side. Main goal is light weight, good handling and pleasing color files without a lot of post.

Recommendations? From my initial searching the XE-2and the XT-10 look like the best options although a dedicated ISO dial like the XT1 would be nice. It's the one thing that frustrates me about the M9. I could maybe live with the X100 but find that lately I'm more into lenses a little wider than 35mm equivalent (28) or slightly tele (50 and up).

Used or older models fine too.
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Old 03-09-2016   #2
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I don't think you'll find a Fuji that you "can use manually like the m9." Same goes for Sony and others. That's what special about the Leica. Few controls and easy to use manually. Fuji's approach certainly has another benefits, though.
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Old 03-09-2016   #3
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You won't really be able to mimic the Leica's rangefinder focussing, but other than that an X-T1 will let you do pretty much everything you want using just the manual controls. If you want the option of an optical finder then the X-Pro 2 would be an obvious contender - perhaps the X-Pro 1 if you're trying to save money, although I never liked the uncertainty with that camera as to where it was actually focussing.

With my X-T1, the only time I fire up the menu is to format an SD card.
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Old 03-09-2016   #4
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xe2s with 16 and 56 fuji lenses...hard to beat.
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Old 03-09-2016   #5
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(Having said that, you might look at the X100T with the two conversion lenses as a truly minimal kit)
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Old 03-09-2016   #6
Peter Wijninga
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I'd look at the X-T1 and the X-pro2. Also have a look at the prime Fuji lenses which are of a very good quality, lightweight and relatively affordable.
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Old 03-09-2016   #7
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Realize I'm sacrificing the rangefinder focusing and build quality, simplicity etc. Not thinking this is going to become my full time camera.

Would be happy to adjust shooting style somewhat for the Fuji, especially as more of a vacation camera but just get frustrated with menu diving/settings. Like to know how camera is set up without looking at screen, at least aperture and shutter speed.

X-Pros seem like might be too similar in size/weight to M9 to make it worthwhile. Actually looks like it's bigger and not very much lighter (100 grams less).

That XE-2s suggestion look interesting. Thanks, Back Alley.
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Old 03-09-2016   #8
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I would go w/ xe2 over the xt10. Essentially the same camera now w/ the latest fw update they posted about a month ago. Combine that w/ a 18f2 and 35f2 and u got your 28/50 combo.

It sounds like u intend to only use this for vacation. Your normal camera would be the m9. The xe2 w/ an m to X mount adapter could also be used for a short tele like a 50f2 would be a 75 fov.

Have u also thought about a x100t. The combine it w/ the wide angle and tele converters and u have 28-35-50 setup. The ovf/evf combo of the x100 and xp family will be the closest to the m9 experience of all the Fuji cameras. The converted setup still leaves max at f2 and if I remember correctly, several members use this setup.. But I do not btw.

A totally different tack, are u after the picture or just recording w/ the best camera the experience. For me vacations are about enjoying time w/ family. The Panasonic LX100 is very much like a xe camera but w/ a fixed 24-75 equiv zoom w/ a variable max aperture from 1.8-2.8. It has both shutter speed and expose comp dial as well as an aperture ring. It's drawback is that it is only a 12mp sensor. The size is between 1 inch and m43. It uses a m43 16mp sensor w/ reduced area to keep the zoom size small and still have a fast aperture. Set auto ISO to either 800 or 1600 depending on how picky u are and u are set. This is what I use for the family vacation of situation. Plus it can record 4K video. The only time I shoot video is on vacation w/ the family...

Gary
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Old 03-09-2016   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby.monkey View Post
(Having said that, you might look at the X100T with the two conversion lenses as a truly minimal kit)
You do get a Split Image RF type focusing... but with multiple lines.. And with the Picture-in-Picture in the X100T, you get a magnified view (2x I think)
And very easy to focus also

Standard SS dial, and f/stop dials
you can make any number of the 7 custom function button for the ISO... (hint, the one closest to the shutter trigger on the top deck).

With the 28 add-on lens, it will still be about the same length of a Leica 28 on an M camera, but with less girth.

The Sensor is the same as in the XE-2, XT10, XT1, And that Leaf shutter is Soooooooooooo Quiet.......... you'll think you took no photo at all when using the OVF option the first hours of use (lol).

Daylight Flash sync at any shutter speed!!!

My Vote... Though I am biased, since I went from an X-E2 to a X100T!!
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Old 03-09-2016   #10
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if small is key, the 18 and 27 are tiny...the new 35 is very nice and only a touch bigger...
have you handled any of these bodies? actual controls for aperture on most lenses and rings/knobs to turn for shutter speed, exp comp...
xe is like rf experience and xt10/xt1 are more like slr...i found xt10 cute but uncomfortable in my hand...the xt1 was more comfy for me.
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Old 03-09-2016   #11
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All good points. Will look at the x100t and converters as well as the xe2 and possibly the LX100.

Going to be hiking to Machu Picchu so image quality is a concern. The last time I did it was 20 years ago and I brought along a Yashica t-4 and a lot of Velvia and was pleased with the results.

Might still bring the m9 but trying to cut down on weight and bulk for hiking.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Will try and get over to B&H and handle a few.
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Old 03-09-2016   #12
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Xe2 is great in your position.
It does some things the m9 does not without sacrificing iq.
The built in flash can tilt with a fingertip and become very useful.
The layout is excellent. Iso is one button push and then wheel turn negating the need for a dedicated dial.
I use the xe1 camera but if I was starting in your position, would take the xe2.

The new 2/35 is inexpensive and excellent.
I never got on with the 27mm but the 18mm is really a super lens for street photography.
You could get both lenses and the body for around a grand $.
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Old 03-09-2016   #13
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Oh,... I posted while you where writing.
For travel the 18-55 is a brilliant lens.
It's an uncomprimised zoom. Excellent iq throughout and truly effective image stabilizing.
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Old 03-09-2016   #14
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I'd go X100T if you don't like the X-Pro2.
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Old 03-09-2016   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly View Post
All good points. Will look at the x100t and converters as well as the xe2 and possibly the LX100.

Going to be hiking to Machu Picchu so image quality is a concern. The last time I did it was 20 years ago and I brought along a Yashica t-4 and a lot of Velvia and was pleased with the results.

Might still bring the m9 but trying to cut down on weight and bulk for hiking.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Will try and get over to B&H and handle a few.
Sounds like u are going after the picture then.. I would stick w/ the xe2 or go for the x100t. The main diff between xe2 and xe2s is minor change to externals and the addition of the acros simulation otherwise the new fw update brings it up to everything else that the xe2s has.. Both the x100t and xe2 have split image focusing for manual focusing usage. X100t u are trading off lens variety for peace of mind in terms of dust getting onto sensor while making lens change while getting back the ovf.

I second Andy's comment about the 18-55 kit zoom. It is close to a pro quality zoom from a lot of manufacturers. The 18-55 w/ a f1.4 prime lens and u are set.

Gary
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Old 03-09-2016   #16
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The X-E2 with most recent updates.

Most are suggesting 2-3 lenses...primes of course.

Fascinating to me, considering the range of all the lenses suggested are covered nicely by the 18-55 f2.8-4 Zoom, which for travel can stay on the camera.... is not overly big.... and weighs less than the multiple primes listed. No lens changing while on the run.

I wonder if everybody simply thinks a Leica shooter would never "stoop" to a zoom lens?

Perhaps some of them have never shot the fast 18-55??? Hmmmmm?
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Old 03-09-2016   #17
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Honestly, I've never used a zoom lens aside from picking up someone's camera and playing with it. Mostly shoot street with fixed lenses. Went from a couple of Pentax's with primes to a Leica and a bunch of fixed lens point and shoots (T4, GR-1, GR D) etc.

Not opposed, just a different way of working.
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Old 03-09-2016   #18
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Don't own any yet, but what about the X70 with a metal bright line finder atop and a X-T10 or X-E2 with a 90/2 Fuji. You could add something wider but I think you will find the X70 hits what you are looking for.

B2 (;->
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Old 03-09-2016   #19
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Btw if I made that trip.. I would probably be foolish and take a dp0 and dp2 Quattro for outdoor landscape work plus my Fuji xt1 w/ 18-135 and 35f2...for everything else. For me, I t would not qualify as a family vacation for me, more like a photo destination one....

Probably feel like a pack mule the whole time . .

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Old 03-09-2016   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryLH View Post
Sounds like u are going after the picture then.. I would stick w/ the xe2 or go for the x100t. The main diff between xe2 and xe2s is minor change to externals and the addition of the acros simulation otherwise the new fw update brings it up to everything else that the xe2s has.. Both the x100t and xe2 have split image focusing for manual focusing usage. X100t u are trading off lens variety for peace of mind in terms of dust getting onto sensor while making lens change while getting back the ovf.

I second Andy's comment about the 18-55 kit zoom. It is close to a pro quality zoom from a lot of manufacturers. The 18-55 w/ a f1.4 prime lens and u are set.

Gary
i thought acros was only in the new xp2?
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Old 03-09-2016   #21
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Your right.

http://bestmirrorlessblogs.com/news/...x-e2s-vs-x-e2/

Gary
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Old 03-09-2016   #22
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it's gotta happen once in awhile...
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Old 03-09-2016   #23
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Recommendations?
You essentially want to save bulk for a hiking trip, so find the smallest camera and lens that have the specs you are happy with and see how much you actually save. If you are happy with the result, see if the interface is something you can live with.
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Old 03-09-2016   #24
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smallest and good quality would be fuji xm1 plus the 2 pancake lenses...probably fit in baggy pants pockets.
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Old 03-09-2016   #25
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A slightly different approach - now that the x70 has been released.

Pair a x70 w/ external ovf w/ the x100t plus tcl. This give u the 28, 35 and 50 as well as provide a backup camera. They have the same interface and thus easy to use w/ one another. The x70 also has a wcl adapter that provides a 21fov if I remember correctly.

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Old 03-09-2016   #26
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X100T and make it work. And especially because, as you've hinted, you might take the M9 as well anyway. I use the original X100. Took that and the Monochrom, 28 and 50 on my last overseas trip. Fixed focal length camera is liberating. Haven't used the wide attachable lens. Might be good for New York or Italy, but I couldn't be bothered.

With the X100 I have panned a cyclist at 1/30s and aperture on A, resetting the manual controls in less than 2 seconds from f5.6 and shutter speed A. Forget true manual focus on mine but I think the T is better. I bought the X100T for my son, but haven't got to use it.
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Old 03-09-2016   #27
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coming from three fujis (x100s, xpro1, xt1), a bunch of their lenses, and now a bit of experience with m240, two things you said resonated with me;

-a camera that gets out of my way
-manual controls

No matter how much i tried, I could not get excited about the OVF's. Always having to rely on AF and never really knowing what locked focus was just too much for me to get over. I really really tried to like the OVF, theyre wonderfully bright, accurate framelines, lots (sometimes too much) information, but I cant get over my issues. As such, these have been used primarily in EVF by me.

To that end, the XT1 is the one I'd probably suggest for now, even with the new Xpro2, just because it has the bigger EVF. You could also wait for the next XT generation. The only caveat to this is if you feel like doing lots of high-f-stop zone focusing where you can forget about focusing or af and then just use the framelines. My only caveat here, is to just stay out of the menus. The new and improved XT1 while significantly more capable, is also more complicated than when it was first released. So many AF settings, tracking settings, face detect, eye detect, and certain things when used together dont work well, and trying to remember it was too much for me. I recently sold mine it became too much to bother with. (and I'm not that old...hah)

Otherwise the x100t might be a fair option, especially given its size and wonderful lens. I've no experience with the faux-RF patch in OVF mode, but it seems like it might be OK. Some people say it's gimmicky but I dunno. The Xpro2 with M glass and the "RF" patch might make for a fun experience as well.

For native fuji lenses, i'd recommend the XF14 for its small size, lightweight, amazing performance (sharpness and distortion), and the clutch focus with DOF scale almost feels manual to me. The XF23 also has that, but I never quite warmed up to its rendering and size\weight. The 23mm on the x100 series is really special imo. Its nice with the WCL as well. The TCL always scared me away due to its size. Otherwise, even after the firmware upgrades that "fixed" the pitch of the fly-by-wire focusing, i never liked how the non-clutch lenses focused. They're OK for doing small adjustments when using AF+MF but to go from infinity to a few feet, bleh. Awful imo.
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Old 03-09-2016   #28
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I've always thought of my X-Pro1 as an automated replacement foy my M9. Same size, viewfinder on the left, with aperture ring and shutter speed dial. But lighter and more nimble.

Personally, I think nothing will take you further from the M9 experience than an EVF, especially one centered in the body. Framelines and OVF are so much of the RF experience, which means X-Pro or X100. And the X100 is too small to feel like an M.

Of course, the OVF means no manual focus, except hyperfocally, which I particularly enjoy. But for manual exposure you'll be right at home.

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Old 03-09-2016   #29
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John

Agree in general, but manual control and "getting out of the way" didnt work for me in OVF with fuji unless I was zone focusing on the 14mm. Too much guessing at what the camera might do. Maybe I just have trust issues, same reason I never used their multi-zone metering, but at least the EVF offers visual feedback on focusing. Maybe the x100t / xpro2 hybrid OVF solves my issue, but I dont know. With the EVF I can live with the momentary VF blackout and not being able to see outside the framelines in exchange for focusing confirmation. The XT1 does have the centrally located VF, but the camera's narrow enough for me that I can also see with my left eye as well. In the end, I was able to shoot and react much faster on the XT1 that I am with the x100s/xpro1 (i.e. it demonstrated that it really did get out of my way while still allowing me manual focus control), which led me to that recommendation over the OVF models.

I make it sound like I dont like fuji, but nothing could be further from the truth.
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Old 03-09-2016   #30
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"lighter, smaller and less expensive"...all relative and not Fuji.
For travel...get the Sony RX100 v4.
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Old 03-09-2016   #31
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Quote:
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"lighter, smaller and less expensive"...all relative and not Fuji.
For travel...get the Sony RX100 v4.
Please explain why the RX100 V4 is remotely what the OP is looking for... and how is Fuji NOT lighter, smaller, and less expensive than Leica?
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Old 03-09-2016   #32
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John

Agree in general, but manual control and "getting out of the way" didnt work for me in OVF with fuji unless I was zone focusing on the 14mm. Too much guessing at what the camera might do. Maybe I just have trust issues, same reason I never used their multi-zone metering, but at least the EVF offers visual feedback on focusing. Maybe the x100t / xpro2 hybrid OVF solves my issue, but I dont know. With the EVF I can live with the momentary VF blackout and not being able to see outside the framelines in exchange for focusing confirmation. The XT1 does have the centrally located VF, but the camera's narrow enough for me that I can also see with my left eye as well. In the end, I was able to shoot and react much faster on the XT1 that I am with the x100s/xpro1 (i.e. it demonstrated that it really did get out of my way while still allowing me manual focus control), which led me to that recommendation over the OVF models.

I make it sound like I dont like fuji, but nothing could be further from the truth.
Personal preferences aside, the OP is hoping to at least partially replicate the M9 experience. It's hard for me to see how recommending an EVF to him is at all sensible. Maybe it's a better solution for you (and perhaps even for him), but I can't see anyone representing it as M9-like. But maybe I'm taking his request too literally.

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Old 03-09-2016   #33
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In the end, I was able to shoot and react much faster on the XT1 that I am with the x100s/xpro1 (i.e. it demonstrated that it really did get out of my way while still allowing me manual focus control), which led me to that recommendation over the OVF models.

I make it sound like I dont like fuji, but nothing could be further from the truth.
Not sure I understand your point since every model of the Fuji cameras that has the ovf feature so far from the x100 and xp family also has an evf that u can switch to if u want to double check such issues as u have mentioned.

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Old 03-09-2016   #34
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Personal preferences aside, the OP is hoping to at least partially replicate the M9 experience. It's hard for me to see how recommending an EVF to him is at all sensible. Maybe it's a better solution for you (and perhaps even for him), but I can't see anyone representing it as M9-like. But maybe I'm taking his request too literally.

John
maybe we're reading the original post differently?

He wasnt asking to replicate the m9 experience, but instead was looking for an M9 alternative that provides a transparent tool whilst retaining the ability to make manual adjustments to avoid menus. By your own description, manual focusing with the OVF has its difficulties. Also reviewing the OP, besides the x100, the three other cameras he suggested were EVF models.

I still stand by the XT1 + XF14mm as being just about as close to what he was asking for; manual controls, manual focus capability, quick verification of focus, iso dial, aperture ring, DOF scale, top plate adjustments for single, continuous, brckt, pano, etc, and top plate adjustment for metering mode. In other words, it's probably the camera that has the most external tactile adjustments on the outside of the camera so he can avoid going into any menu.
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Old 03-09-2016   #35
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I use an XE-1 with my Voigtlander 35mm Color Skopar and Canon FD 24mm 2.8 and 50mm 1.8. (I've used my FD 28mm f/2.8 some, but will generally opt for the 24mm on the x-e1)

I for the most part use a ton of zone focusing, ESPECIALLY with the 24mm f/2.8 as the DoF at F8 goes from about 4 feet to infinity.

I've never owned a fuji lens with this camera and have never used autofocus with it.

edit to add, i've been wanting to try the X-pro 1 as i think i might like the OVF with my selection of lenses. naturally i'd like to try the x-pro 2 as well but i think thats out of my price range.
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Old 03-09-2016   #36
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Of course, the OVF means no manual focus, except hyperfocally, which I particularly enjoy. But for manual exposure you'll be right at home.

John
With the X Pro 2 you can have Ovf and manual focus. The erf mode is fantastic for this.

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Old 03-09-2016   #37
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Ricoh GR. And your M9. That's my travel kit.
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Old 03-09-2016   #38
edge100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby.monkey View Post
(Having said that, you might look at the X100T with the two conversion lenses as a truly minimal kit)
This is my current digital kit. Love the simplicity.
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Old 03-09-2016   #39
shawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pechelman View Post
Maybe the x100t / xpro2 hybrid OVF solves my issue, but I dont know.
Here is the XP2 ERF mode...



That is with the EVF square being the lower zoomed in view. You can also have focus peaking active in that square. If you are in monochrome mode (ACROS IS NICE) that square is monochrome so the red focus peaking will really jump out. You can focus basically by watching for red in that corner.

You can also have the digital rangefinder function in that corner but that one is harder to see at that size.

BTW, you can also have it show the full captured view to check overall focus and framing.



The XP2 framelines are more accurate than the XP1.

The ERF mode works in manual focus and single point AF. It also works fine with adapted lenses.

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Old 03-09-2016   #40
jim0266
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If you are looking at an X100 don't even consider the original X100 or the S, go straight to the X100T. Fuji got *almost* everything right on the third iteration. The M262 is now my main camera but the X100T is my alternate camera. So small and light there is not excuse not to bring it along anywhere you go.

I've locked my X100T down so nothing gets in the way. Auto ISO and manual mode just like on the M series. The X100T is actually a nice companion to the M. Totally silent shutter should you ever need it, built in flash and ability to shoot close up. All while giving you the RF-esque VF and the option for EVF should critical framing ever be necessary.
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