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View Poll Results: Why did you decide NOT to buy a digital Leica M?
it is too expensive 292 60.21%
there are other (digital) camera options that suit me better 111 22.89%
I am using only film cameras 128 26.39%
other reason ... [explain] 65 13.40%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 485. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-02-2016   #321
mich rassena
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I'm not a professional and make virtually nothing from photography, so I'm still a little regretful I paid so much for a new D600. I can't imagine I'd feel any better about a Leica which will depreciate as quickly. Since cameras are like computers, and full of silicon, it's only a matter of waiting a few generations for the new hardware to eclipse the old. Why spend $5K now, when you can spend $1K every two years and end up in 10 years with a much better camera than $5K would buy you today. I'd rather that than end up with a 10 year old formerly $5K camera, which is now nearly worthless.
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Egg zactly!
Old 09-02-2016   #322
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Egg zactly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
I am accepting digital photography for what it is. I do not mentally compare it with film photography. These two types are like apples and oranges. Both are fruits, and similar, but they have different appeals. I can make Apfelpfannekuchen from apples, but I would not make Apfelsinepfannekuchen from oranges. Apple juice and orange juice have their places. In the end, both film photography and digital photography can be enjoyed if you just look at each the right way.
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Old 09-02-2016   #323
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I did buy Leica digital. I have had one M8, used. One M9 new and another used. I can tell you why I probably won't buy another and why I am considering selling the one I have. I'm just sick and tired of dust spots. I don't see that they put sensor cleaning in the M (240) and until they do, I'm probably done with Leica digital.
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Old 09-02-2016   #324
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It's a few things for me.

1) Digital M's are overpriced in my opinion and the depreciation is substantial, whereas even now very little of my gear has sold for a loss, even after having used it for years. I'd rather put that money into a lens than a body, period. The separation between Leica and other manufacturers as far as quality and performance is essentially non-existent these days, while the price gap has increased. The digital M system isn't suited for the same tasks the classic M's were; they're luxury items now. I need a workhorse of a camera and unfortunately don't fit into the audience Leica is courting these days.


2) Other digitals perform better for significantly less money. I bought a A7S a couple years ago for $2500 to shoot some footage for a national spot for the Sugarbowl. Luckily the rental on the body for those few days covered over half of the cost, making it a much easier pill to swallow. I rarely make prints and when I do they're 8x10 or 11x14 so 12 MP is more than enough. The low light abilities are astounding (the A7SII is even better) and make fast lenses no longer a necessity (Anyone wanna buy a Canon 50/1.2?) and when I need to shoot video it handles that decently. With a M I'd be paying more than half of what I paid for my A7S while not fulfilling many of my needs.

These are all points that have been beaten into the ground over and over, that being said, I would love to have a Digital M but at it's price point it doesn't make sense for me.
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Old 09-02-2016   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mich rassena View Post
I'm not a professional and make virtually nothing from photography, so I'm still a little regretful I paid so much for a new D600. I can't imagine I'd feel any better about a Leica which will depreciate as quickly. Since cameras are like computers, and full of silicon, it's only a matter of waiting a few generations for the new hardware to eclipse the old. Why spend $5K now, when you can spend $1K every two years and end up in 10 years with a much better camera than $5K would buy you today. I'd rather that than end up with a 10 year old formerly $5K camera, which is now nearly worthless.


How do you define "better"?

I have a 6D and an M9 and I use one camera for one type of shooting and the other for another. On a spec sheet, the 6D does dozens of things the M9 can't do, from wi-fi connectivity to video to usable images in the higher ISO range. The list gotta on and on. So is that a better camera? Because when I pick up the M9 and have to slow down and manually compose, expose and focus, it feels more like challenge and reward. To me it feels more authentic as an artist because I feel like I worked for that shot. It's just different.

That's just one man's opinion. Different strokes for different folks.
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Old 10-09-2016   #326
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I am not sure if I fit into this now that I no longer shoot digital, but digital Leicas are just way too expensive for what they offer. They may be well built and good looking, but there are others that exceed their digital performance in many ways.
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Old 10-12-2016   #327
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I like mechanical film cameras. I enjoy using them. Digital is good for work, and when I'm on the kayak, but then the camera is purely a tool. Any enjoyment is from a good shot, rather than actually using the camera.
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Old 11-30-2016   #328
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Before I wanted a digital Leica and could not afford it. Well, perhaps I could, but given the short life span, I would not be able to keep updating it, so I never got one.

Now I do not even want one. The digital I do is served well by a Fuji X100, and for the most part I prefer to use film.

Film cameras do not have as many features, settings and things going on and that is a blessing. I especially like using a meterless Leica, it is so simple and gives me the control.

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Old 12-28-2016   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthfeeble View Post
I did buy Leica digital. I have had one M8, used. One M9 new and another used. I can tell you why I probably won't buy another and why I am considering selling the one I have. I'm just sick and tired of dust spots. I don't see that they put sensor cleaning in the M (240) and until they do, I'm probably done with Leica digital.
The dust spots in the M9 annoy me a lot.
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Old 12-28-2016   #330
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I can't afford one. I'd love to have an M262 and perhaps in a few years I can get whatever the equivalent model is. I'd rather buy used so someone else can take the depreciation hit.
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Old 12-28-2016   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
The dust spots in the M9 annoy me a lot.
Oh - but there is sensor cleaning provided in the M cameras. It is just that it is manual, like the rest of the concept...
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Old 12-28-2016   #332
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I keep it basic; rocket blower and lens cloth most of the time.
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Old 12-28-2016   #333
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I find the Eyelead gel stick very useful as well.
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Old 01-01-2017   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
I find the Eyelead gel stick very useful as well.
These are the kind of stuff that encourages all the messy Sensor Corrosion.
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Old 01-04-2017   #335
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I really want one , but too expensive , or better : I cannot afford it right now . A M-262 would be nice ...
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Old 01-04-2017   #336
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These are the kind of stuff that encourages all the messy Sensor Corrosion.
That is unfounded balderdash.
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Old 01-26-2017   #337
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Money. I don't have enough of it to drop $8k+ on a camera.
I could get a nice M2 and 7,000 printed photos for that cost, spread over at least 4 years.


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Old 01-26-2017   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
The dust spots in the M9 annoy me a lot.
Cloning spots off scanned 35mm negatives is a much bigger PITA than the couple of minutes it takes to clean a digital sensor or remove the few dust spots a digital file might contain.
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Old 01-26-2017   #340
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Sensor dust is a fact of digital photography. Don't be demoralized or depressed about it - do something! All cameras suffer this, and the sensor shake ain't gonna cure it if you use your camera outside in wide ranging conditions (I have). But we're far from powerless in dealing with it. Best solution I've found isn't cheap, but worth every penny - like most things. And no, though this probably sounds like I'm a shill, I have no stake in this... just hate to think someone wants to dump a $5,000 camera because they can't clean the sensor. Been there (for less $'s with a Sony), felt your pain. No need to stay there.

Recommend the solution that comes from a company that markets primarily for cleaning telescopes and/or microscopes... but also cameras. Most of the other products are knock-offs without the technical background. I suggest calling their tech folks: I did and they were very helpful. You'll get professional cleaning gear, a loupe for examing your sensor, and all the right tools for a first class job. They have youtubes on how to do it, and can walk you through any problems. Nice to have a live body on the other end of the phone!!! Truth is that most problems folks have aren't dust but moisture - either from the air, or from using spit to try to clean things, and moisture is a special problem for sensors. Don't be intimidated - it's really easy. Call: Visible Dust at Tel: 1-877-999-9404. They're up in Canada. They have a website: https://www.visibledust.com/index.php but if you call, they'll knock something off the price, and even tell you that a small kit will clean all you need for a lifetime.
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Old 01-26-2017   #341
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> Why did you decide NOT to buy a digital Leica M?

Because every time I want to pull the trigger and get a digital M, there's rumors of a new model coming soon. That's why I still have a flip phone, my car is 20 years old and I still use film Ms.

I mean, if you're running around these days with an M8 from the last decade, everyone will give you a pity smile, but if you have an M2/3/4 around your neck, people just nod at you and admire how cool you are. The same is true for current M10 owners, but just give it a year and they will feel sorry for themselves. (just kidding)
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Old 01-26-2017   #342
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Originally Posted by Mute-on View Post
Money. I don't have enough of it to drop $8k+ on a camera.
I could get a nice M2 and 7,000 printed photos for that cost, spread over at least 4 years.
True, when you are a prolific film user, you spend about as much on film as you'd spend on a digital M over a 4-5 year period. Money-wise, there's no difference except that you don't have to spend all the money up front and the gear doesn't depreciate over time.

But I guess these are all excuses and if one is passionate about photography, then we'll find the funds somehow. In truth, I simply love film and can't get excited about digital photography at all. That's why I don't have a digital camera and have no plans getting one.
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Old 01-26-2017   #343
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Rapid obsolescence, cost, rapid obsolescence, reliability and rapid obsolescence.
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Old 01-26-2017   #344
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You forgot to mention rapid obsolescence!
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Old 01-26-2017   #345
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I'd rather switch than fight! My Bessa R4A still has half a roll of Fuji NPS 160 loaded 8 years ago, my last use of film. When I switched (with an M8) it was sudden and complete. I greatly enjoyed working in the darkroom, but I found greater joy in the Lightroom!
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Old 01-26-2017   #346
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With M10 rumor/announcement, I gave it another thought (going for M10, picking up M9 or 240 at lower price) but decided against it. My personal conclusion was that I wanted a feasible way to bring the photo I really liked into darkroom and print. I don't have a way to do it with digital right now.

Also my entire M kit including 3 bodies (inc original BP M4 and modern Leicavit MP!) and bunch of lenses are just about the price of one M10 plus a Summarit-M. Couldn't justify it.
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Old 01-26-2017   #347
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The value proposition isn't there. I'd prefer to buy the Fujifilm GFX 50S.
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Old 01-26-2017   #348
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In my case it makes no sense financially or aesthetically.

I cannot think of any image that I could not create with the equipment that I have (and have had for nearly 30 years). In fact, that very statement sums it up for me: Technology is no substitute for imagination and energy.

The reason that I've used Leica cameras for these decades is these were the tools that I acquired at the beginning of a long term relationship with photography. My lenses date from the 70's and 80's (latest). I use M4-Ps for my analog work because I don't worry about being mugged for my equipment --I photograph in some sketchy places-- and these bodies accommodate my full collection of lenses. I have an M8.2, several studios (Capture, Lightroom ...), and a scanner or two because I wanted to learn something about digital photography. From what little I've learned, I don't see why doubling the megapixels, etc. would make any material difference to my work. Hell, I'd rather spend the money saved on a good lab!

In fact, in so many respects, I see so many more photographs being produced at this time in history, with so little new or interesting to say, that it makes me want to take up painting.
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Old 01-27-2017   #349
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because i have experienced the smell of fixer.
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Old 01-27-2017   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mich rassena View Post
I'm not a professional and make virtually nothing from photography, so I'm still a little regretful I paid so much for a new D600. I can't imagine I'd feel any better about a Leica which will depreciate as quickly. Since cameras are like computers, and full of silicon, it's only a matter of waiting a few generations for the new hardware to eclipse the old. Why spend $5K now, when you can spend $1K every two years and end up in 10 years with a much better camera than $5K would buy you today. I'd rather that than end up with a 10 year old formerly $5K camera, which is now nearly worthless.
You would not be better off with a Leica, and it would certainly depreciate a lot. If you bought a new M10 for $6,600 today, you can be almost certain that in two years it would be worth $4,600 whether you used it or not. It's almost a guaranteed $2,000 loss over the next two years. For some people it's a drop in the bucket, but for most people that's a big loss.
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Old 02-17-2017   #351
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How do you define "better"?

I have a 6D and an M9 and I use one camera for one type of shooting and the other for another. On a spec sheet, the 6D does dozens of things the M9 can't do, from wi-fi connectivity to video to usable images in the higher ISO range. The list gotta on and on. So is that a better camera? Because when I pick up the M9 and have to slow down and manually compose, expose and focus, it feels more like challenge and reward. To me it feels more authentic as an artist because I feel like I worked for that shot. It's just different.

That's just one man's opinion. Different strokes for different folks.
100% agree with this. I have a 6D and digi M too and the experience is very different with the two.
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Old 02-17-2017   #352
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Just a word to say that as a new buyer of a Leica M4-2 (not a digital M), my purchase was dictated by cost on one hand. Here, the digital Leica M for an outsider with NO lenses is a big leap of faith. There are ways - like rentals - to lower that, but in a sense if you're going to buy, a rental raises the price but reduces the theoretical risk... because you have a 1 week trial or so. I decided this was money down a rat hole as step 1.

For me, step 1 was to try the rangefinder experience with a film M. This offered an opportunity to acquire some lenses so that if LATER it was something I wanted to stick with and wanted to step up to the digital M, then it was an incremental rather than momentus step. In addition, it gave me an opportunity to shoot film, work with contrast filters, blah blah blah... learn a lot of the parts of photography I have very limited experience with. All I knew was that, "Gee... I'd like to shoot more B&W..." and a Monochrom M seemed to special purpose at the price to make sense. My M4-2 can shoot color any time I want... I don't want... but it's an option that's just $6 or so away at any time.

That said, I love the size of these lenses... so small! And they fit into my preferred manual shooting style... and I'm loving the manual, handheld meter, learning the zone system... and the gorgeous output. Will I go digital Leica in the future having an experience of the film M? Yes, this makes it possible in an incremental way, and that's my style, too. Incremental changes. And a used Leica M10 will appeal one day... or at least an "Open Box". Size is an issue. Not make or break... but I like the Leica has begun to get it's digital feet under it and begin to listen to the market and respond by making what it thinks it wants.... though I'd point out that making a camera that worked with its existing M lenses is exactly that. And I also like that Leica is comfortable with small product runs and I'll know they really love their customers if they make a successor to the M7/MP/M-A line of film cameras perhaps updating it for more contemporary metering for those who might want that.

My two cents.
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