Old 12-28-2016   #41
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
I am blown away by the results last night, and I remain inspired because so many possibilities just opened up. For contact printing if I limit myself to say 8x10 I could easily make silver wet prints without a vacuum frame. How cool is it to digitally proof your wet print? How cool is it to use digital post processing to make and develop the perfect negative for contact printing? Limited editions anyone?

I printed five 8 1/2x11's of a Monochrom night shot at 800 ISO 1/30 second using a Nikon 35/1.8 LTM wide open. The scene was a Central Park South crowd playing Pokeman Go in an outdoor public hot spot soon after the game got released. What makes the shot so remarkable is that everyone in this crowd shot seems fully immersed and so unaware at the same time.

So this was my first test: I took a tiff file that I had previously printed with K7 and explored what Piezography Pro could do. The first thing I discovered is that in the new updated paper profile library were three profiles for Jon Cone Type 5: cool, neutral, and warm.

I printed each curve separately to visualize the color gamut. In comparing the cool and neutral as they were drying, at first I was disappointed because they appeared too similar, but as they dried the difference became more pronounced, and I liked both. The warm profile I felt was too strong and the shadows were kinda brown.

Anyways it takes a while for the ink to dry, and one should allow for a full day of drying because using a hot air gun to speed up the drying I think does not give the best results, but I could already observe the blackest blacks I have ever seen. This morning I looked at the prints again: a wider dynamic range, smooth, highly detailed, and one has to believe optimized for making digital negatives for contact printing. Wow.

So the forth print I loaded in all three curves into my "Print Tool:" Cool; Neutral; and Warm. So now instead of printing with one curve, I'm printing with three, and I can adjust levels for highlights, mids and shadows separately.

The fourth print I made with the mids set up with equal portions of cool, neutral and warm, but I skewed the highlights to cool and the shadows to warm to create the most exaggerated effect of warm shadows and cool highlight split tone. The resulting print was a lot like my first bout with K7 where I blended my warm neutral 50% with Selenium at 50% exactly in the middle at Shade 4. This first iteration had too much warmth to my liking, so I ended up mixing in 25% selenium in my shade 3 to tone down the warmth further.

In the fifth print I toned down the warm curve shadows 25% and boosted the Selenium shadows from zero to 25%. The Neutral curve I kept flat at zero. The resulting print is a very close match to my K7 splitone.

So a 8 1/2x11 printed at 2880 DPI unidirectional takes 7 minutes. I see fine detail that favorably indicates resolution high enough to make contact prints of astounding quality, although prints bigger than 8x10 will likely require a vacuum frame for best results. For you guys that want to wet print small (8x10) this is for you.

BTW I kinda took advantage of Digital Silver Imaging a few years back. They had an offer that if one pre-paid $500.00 one got $1K worth of printing. I loaded up the truck and purchased $2.5K worth of printing. DSI makes silver wet prints using a laser as a light source. Anyways this was the state of the art 2-3 years ago. I had a handful of 24x36 inch fiber prints made printed on 30x40 paper that cost close to $500.00 each made from my best files made with my Monochrom.

So even though DSI uses a laser as a light source on big prints one can see a softness that gets projected via enlargement on the edges. This is the same one can see on traditional wet prints on big enlargements. Contact printing like a large format shooter is a workaround this limitation.

Anyways from my experience of printing large with Piezography K7 that the resolution kinda scales up, and depending on how perfect your image capture was that generally the larger one prints the more detail is revealed. In other words IQ and dynamic range seems to expand on the print the bigger it gets. I think I would need a 44 inch printer to get fuzzy, and then even that big it might not happen with the right clean low noise file.

Now we are talking in terms of doing what Salgado did with Genesis. Now it seems we do not need the best lab in Paris.

Anyways these are my preliminary findings. BTW I did compare print the dry number 5 PP print to a 17x24 (14x21 image size) K7 print this morning. Understand that the 1/30 shutter speed limited the IQ, and the lens was a retro lens shot wide open at night, but the tonality seemed the same and displayed the same smoothness and precision. Hard to compare resolution at this point, because clearly the smaller print is better.

Next test is print print number 5 bigger. Likely tonight. Understand that any comparision is limited by the use of older K7 curves, and that the entire curve library has been updated. To make a fair challenge I would have to make a new K7 print with the new K7 curve. Any judgement of PP to K7 should be reserved untill the new K7 curve is printed for a real comparision. Also know there was mention of a one-pass K7 as the next project. Hmmm...

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-29-2016   #42
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Last night I printed a 10x15 image size on 13x17 and a 12x18 image size on 13x17 both on Jon Cone Type 5. The image used the split tone settings from print number 5 mentioned above that toned down the warmth.

So here is the good, the bad, and the ugly. I used this image of outdoor hot spot Pokeman Go players due to it's high contrast, dark shadows and abundant levels of blacks. The file was not optimal due to 800 ISO on a Monochrom, 1/30 second shutter speed, and shooting an old single coated retro lens wide open (35/1.8 Nikkor in LTM).

I already knew from my 13x19.5 image size K7 print that it crossed over to where image size allowed IQ to suffer, but it seemed the Gold-E-lox size was the 10x15 image size, but the larger print did exhibit and reveal more detail than the smaller prints. The image only softened up as it was enlarged to the 12x18 size as certain fine details added details of their own.

Overall the 10x15 is a superb print that exploits the splitone well. I found that when looking at the 8 1/2 x11's that different levels of detail got revealed depending on my splitone, and it is observable that there is a clear advantage to being able to control the split because the ideal tone allowed more detail to be revealed.

On the 12x18 last night I saw a trace amount of "pizzawheeling" in a section of sky. This printing artifact is due to the paper transport of my 3880. It seems that when lots of ink is laid down, in this case a pure black sky, the surface of the print can get disturbed/damaged. The amount was slight, and perhaps only a trained eye would of noticed.

Know that as a print dries that the effect of this printing artifact goes away. The possible workaround would be to moderate the black slightly by moving the black endpoint on the curve ever so slightly or perhaps the slightest lowering of contrast. Sometimes as the print dries the artifact disappears totally, but sometimes it is visible as a trace amount that is greatly diminished. Always most visible on a wet print.

In the morning it was gone, but I knew it was there, and to me it bothers me, even though under glass it would be hidden. Know that my 7800 uses a vacuum for paper transport and it has a superior paper transport that leaves no artifact.

On the larger prints what becomes visible is this girl's light polo shirt that is alternating thin horizontal black and white strips. Because she is such a small part of the image her shirt represents telling fine detail. The shirt scales up in both large prints with a highlight and even midtone in the creases. I did not see any bleeding that might be an artifact of high contrast areas where black and white dominate. I am looking at closely an area the size of my thumbnail.

Note that Pizzawheeling generally is a problem that is limited to large expansive areas of black. Also know that Pizzawheeling can be paper dependent. In this regard the Canson papers I tend to favor might be a problem because with K7 this paper requires a lot of ink, but I like the depth displayed in the prints.

In the shadows another detail is revealed in this landscape shot: a one liter bottle of water standing upright in a marked crosswalk that has been abandoned. As a bright highlight it is well rendered and it definately draws in the eye as a point of interest.

The crowd is gathered around a large base of a gold statue of a man mounted on a horse flanked by a woman angel. The level of fine detail and smoothness of tone on this monument adds lots of pop to the 10x15 print. The rendering is very 3-D due to the detail and tonality. Anyways this is what the advantage of splitone is about.

In comparing and looking back at the 8.5x11 prints number 4 and 5, the shift in tone is rather subtle, but the amount of added fine detail is not subtle at all. As another example in the distance are the edges of leaves on trees that get enough detail to reveal their edge. The slight amount of captured light that comes out in the rendering makes a big difference.

I made two more test prints (8 1/2x11) of yet another tiff I printed in K7. In this particular image there were levels of difficulty because I was shooting close and wide open with a 28 Cron under dusky conditions. The lighting was high contrast and to compound the difficulties my subjects were three black men.

The place was on Broadway near the now closed Leica Gallery, and the men were Louis Mendez, Jamal Shabatz, and Anthony Lero. Louis and Anthony sported crown graphics and 1940's fashion standing out against Jamal's Nikon DSLR.

With my K7 splitone I was not happy with the tonality, but I will see how the big prints will look tonight. Basically I toned down the warmth. Already I can see that Anthony who is the main subject is more accentuated due to the added detail that I was able to tease out.

So where do I stand? It seems like the speed of one pass glossy is a great advantage. Printing a 13x19 sheet takes 16 minutes at 2880 dpi unidirectional, compared to 6 minutes 8 1/2x11. It seems that 8 1/2x11 is a very useful size for testing and documenting printing, and I expect that I will do a lot of 13x19 1/2 prints on 17x23 1/2 paper. It seems the 3880 is well suited for the job and will be a workhorse.

It is pretty easy to make a few prints each night. The 8 1/2x11's are great tools for editing a book or exhibition, and secondarily they provide a reference making larger prints on the 7800. I still need a color printer.

As you can deduce from my writing is that when you scale up everything changes. The only slightly larger large print crossed the line where it laid down even more ink for that expanded tonality that gets expanded on larger prints. Perhaps in this regard one pass glossy has some limit, and perhaps the two or sometime three pass might be required for true large format printing with true pro level printers.

It seems outlined by the work with Piezography Pro that I will further tailor my K7 splitone by toning down the warmth further. Know that with the K7 long tails on the curves that there might be an outstanding advantage to 7 shades of black, especially in large-large prints due to the overlapping of curves that blends smoothness. Understand that the bigger one prints the amount of ink consumed seems to be non linear. In other words if you double the print area my feeling is that you use a lot more than double the amount of ink.

As far as digital negatives go it becomes evident to me that the added detail I see, even in the 8 1/2x11's means that the splitoning of PP is useful to optimize negatives. The same small detail on digital prints can be revealed on the digital negative that in turn would get transfered to the analog silver wet print.

Cal

POSTSCRIPT: To be clear I want to mention that to start with making Digital Negatives the 3880 is great, and I do think Piezography Pro offers a level of control that is an asset in creating negatives, but ultimately I would love to have a second large format printer dedicated to Piezography Pro that has the capabilities of 24 inch rolls and wider. I feel that 17 inch wide capacity is not big enough to fully exploit Piezography.

K7 for exhibition printing I think at this point has not yet been surplanted, but there still remains further testing...
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-30-2016   #43
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
I printed a 10x15 of my three black photographers on Broadway. It seems that 8 1/2x11 is my test print size and 10x15 on 13x19 is my work print size. 13x19.5 on 17x23 1/2 is my exhibition print size, and from there is my jumbo prints that get printed on my 7800.

I printed 4 test prints of a tiff I printed in the past. Since I use print tool any file I exported to my "Print Tool" gets archived automatically, and I have little thumbnails to help with my filing system on my Mac Book Pro. This image was difficult to print, and I was not happy with the end results with K7. Too bad because it is an interesting image, but it did not print well.

There is a white dog that kinda is the main subject that might be part Pug and part French Bulldog. He sits in a slouchy manner basking in the sun in a storefront in the Old City section of Montreal. The plate glass windows layer reflections, one of them is me shooting my Monochrom with a chrome 90 Macro Elmar.

No matter what I did in post this image kinda looked flat and I was not able to extract the image that was so rich and compelling in my VF'er on that bright summer day. The light was late morning and it cut a strong diagonal of highlight with deep shadows. I choose this image because of the deep natural contrast. This image also involves so many reflections and distortions that it is layered like a dream.

I decided to set the highlights at 100% cool, and the shadows at 100% neutral to add spacial depth and only the mids were blended curves. My first image was too warm. I am glad I made this test print because I wanted to see that warmth in my reflection because in the real world I am brown skinned, and this initial print would be my reference to guide me though my changes.

The effect of separate highlights, mids, and shadows was well suited for this image. The cool highlights were dramatic, and the moderately different neutral shadows complemented the highlights. I already could tell this will become a great print. Know that the top of the head of the white dog has blown highlights, but in this shot it is not a bad thing, and it added an exclaimation point to the bright light in a good way.

The next test print moderated the warmth in the mids. I found the first print to have an exaggerated warmth, and in a way I found in the second print that the bonus warmth masked detail in the first version. The second test print was much better, revealing more detail, tonality, and creating more depth.

By the third test print the amount of depth presented I would deem holographic. The flat images/reflections all of the sudden had depth presented via more dynamic range of tone. The reflection of a parked car displayed more highlight making it become more detailed and included, perhaps in a heightened manner, to be more in the foreground instead of just being a distraction or ghost image. The detail, the rendering, and the spacial effects were all being enhanced. and the small print displayed more pop than the bigger prints I attempted before using K7.

The fourth print was another step in drilling down the warmth. Last night I really liked the added contrast. The highlights seemed more vivid, so I decided to make an advanced work print (10x15 on 13x19) without the usual overnight drying.

Last night the difference between the 8 1/2x11 (number 4) and the same image just printed bigger was striking. First off more detail, but also a broader contrast. In this print the size of the print has a mucho huge impact.

In the morning when I evaluated all the now dried prints I discovered that my work print might of gone a bit too far, and that I will likely print a version 3 tonight. It seems version 3 offers the most information as far as tonality in the highlights and shadows. The tile floor and small throw rug display more tonality than version 4. Anyways I think it is valuable to have both prints.

I made a cut sheet of Jon Cone Type 5 off of a roll to print a 17 inch wide print. I'm thinking that this dreamy image will be a good candidate to see how the print scales up. I put this cut sheet in a box of prints to flatten. Know that small prints are kinda compressed in both detail and dynamic range. I would encourage anyone to just get a floor standing pro printer. I strongly feel otherwise you kinda are only doing 55 mph on the Autoban.

So now I have mucho remorse. I deleted a lot of landscape shots that were relections off of car windows. I did a lot of shooting trying to get a grip on this photography that presented technical difficulties. Printing these images so they would not appear flat and compressed proved to be too dificult, and I was discouraged, but now I understand what was missing to add back all that depth, tonality and detail. Oh-well.

So now I can see how PP might likely displace my K7. I already have a new set of 350-400 ml carts.

An experiment I hope to do is have one of my buddies print two color prints for me. I can use my K7 printer driver and use it to print the Gloss Chroma Optimizer from PP over a color print to see and learn if it works like the Gloss Overcoat. The only bad thing that can happen is I ruin a print. Oh-well.

If the above experiment works I can then upgrade PP to my 7800 and set up my 3880 as my color printer. This would be ideal.

So it seems another limitation of PP is that once a file is loaded into "Print Tool" there is no soft proofing. The work around is making a small print (8 1/2x11) which at my level is not cost prohibited, but know that even small costs add up.

There is a company that makes desktop lamps, Ott Lite, that uses special bulbs that create D5000 (daylight). Know that I evaluate my prints under both Daylight (D5000) and tungstun to represent real world lighting conditions. Of course this is in a darkened room.

I checked my ink levels last night. The refillable carts get reset automatically each time I turn on my printer, so opening the cover and visually checking is required. Last night the 80 ml carts were half empty. Granted that likely 1/3rd of that 80 ml was utilized during my initial fill, but realize I only made a few prints that really were not big, and you can see that the tonality comes from laying down a lot more ink than Epson OEM. With the 3880 and heavy printing I was having to reload my carts every other week.

Printing gets mighty expensive, and if you don't print a lot expect clogging and maintenance problems. Know that I humidify my apartment so my print heads do not dry out. 50% humidity I try to maintain.

It seems like posting will require getting a flatbed scanner. Perhaps in January. I generally don't post because I do not think a display is the best way to exhibit my work. Anyways I am considering it. Maybe an Epson 850 to scan prints.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-30-2016   #44
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
SMUG Disclaimer: I just want to make it clear that when I say get a floor standing large format printer it is because I shoot a Monochrom. Perhaps the only camera better for Piezography digital capture is the M-246 with its lower noise and bigger files. As soon as I got my 7800 the 3880 went into storage and was loaded with Piezoflush.

Understand that IMHO the Monochrom and M-246 really have the IQ of about 645 film. Pretty easy to get medium format quality, and I might dare say elements even of large format contact printing. Anyways it really is that good (meaning the cameras).

Anyways just because I want to exploit the IQ does not mean you have to.

YMMV.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-04-2017   #45
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
I apologize for all the lengthy text, but it is for good reason. By now the only people following this thread are people who are considering PP or K7 or digital negative. The detailed descriptions will be very valuable if one has the 18 prints I have assembled into a folio. Basically I have only had PP online for a week, every day I have printed, except for yesterday when I reloaded all my carts. Unlike K7 where I mostly deplete my mids, with PP all the carts were depleted about the same amount thus far.

There are a dozen 8 1/2x11's that are simply test prints to show just all the flexibility just within the printer driver via blending three curves. All the prints were made from an old K7 tiff, except a new tiff that I recreated from the raw file that is clearly marked. Interesting to note that I also found the solidary "down and dirty" 13x17 K7 print, but before I found that K7 print I had made a new tiff from the raw file and printed a 10x15 and 13x19 using PP.

So I propose sending off a "chain-folio," a spin on the "chain-letter." I will compile a list via PM of snail-mail addresses and will pay the initial postage, my hope that eventually each person will pay the postage to forward the chain folio to the next person on my list, and in the end I might get these test prints and work prints back. I would request that in the least each participant of this Chain-Folio experiment initial or sign the back of each print with the date to add a documentary element to the experiment. Since I will have the list I can track the location readily. Also I will limit this experiment to the lower 48.

Know that I sent some prints to my/our friend Dirk in China. The packet arrived safely to the other side of the world, but the postman mashed the parcel so it could fit into a mailbox destroying the prints. I know stuff happens that is beyond my control, but I remain with faith in people's integrity. Let's see if a chain-folio can work.

I have marked the WP/NFS so I don't think these prints can be really used to hurt my body of work or my reputation or resold at any value if things don't work out, but it is a way to share my work and get it out there. No way a display can convey the detail or tonality of the prints. The prints don't lie.

BTW my 27 inch EIZO cannot display all the information on the print, and I can print more detail and tonality than what I can see on the EIZO. For those of you who have tried Piezography before it was an epiphany discovering that there was a lot more detail in the prints, and it opened up another world for me: printing what I cannot see.

Understand the 2 13x19's, 4 10x15's, and dozen 8 1/2x11's were made from raw files that utilized 650 or 800 ISO and not 320 Native ISO of my Monochrom. The lighting was either high contrast, muddy or night. The three sizes will show how Piezography scales up in detail depending on printing size. These files are somewhat limited in IQ compared to the ones that scale up into great 20x30's. Obviously these are not the best or cleanest files, and yet they become great examples.

It might be good to know that the Montreal Dog Raw File that I redid for the 10x15 and 13x19 has no exposure or contrast slider adjustment. The post processing only involved minor tweaking, the whites slider remained at zero, and any added contrast was due to just slider or a slight "S" curve.

Interesting to note how similar the K7 13x19 is to the 13x19 PP I made. Know that I only located the K7 print after I made the PP 13x19. IMHO the rendering of detail is different in comparing the prints. I can not definitively say one is better than the other, just slightly different. In some areas the K7 is better; and in other areas the PP is better.

I would recommend viewing these prints under daylight conditions and incandescent lighting. You will note that under incandescent lighting that the prints display more warmth and under D5000 the prints are more neutral. The effect of the real world on splitone is mostly generally mixed lighting.

Anyways PM with your name and address if you want to be part of this "Chain-Folio" experiment. I will send this folio off after the January 15th NYC Meet-Up where I will first share my results.

BTW it is pretty easy to imagine how a 10x15 would contact print with stunning resolution to make a silver wet print. IMHO it would look like large format that was contact printed. If I didn't have a 7800, I would be happy with just this. The prints would be stunning. All I need to do is download the digital negative profiles.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-05-2017   #46
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
So yesterday I took the brand new Second Avenue Subway ("Q" train) AKA B&H Express subway to B&H to buy some 13x19 Canson Platine Fibre Rag.

$108.00 for 25 sheets. Ouch.

I printed a 10x15 and then a 13x19, but I observed the dreaded "Pizza Wheels" on both prints. Know that Canson papers take big ink loads, but the depth in the prints is massive. I kinda was expecting these difficulties due to my K7 experience. In my book a perfect print should be just that, and any artifact is intolerable. Basically one easily gets spoiled by perfection. In the morning the artifacts remained, Ahhhh...

With K7 I resigned to printing Canson papers on my 7800, where the superior paper transport creates no artifact. This was due to the application of gloss overcoat required by the K7 process when printing on Canson (thirsty) papers.

So before posting my sad results I went on the PPE Forum which is a private forum that is moderated by Walker Blackwell. Know that Walker is very young, yet he ran, owned and operated a fine art printing studio, so I kinda have a semi-private mentor via this private forum. So I posted a thread and got a rapid reply.

"It pertains to dig negs but will work fine with Piezo as well," Walker wrote, and he supplied a link on how to disable the star wheels on an Epson 3880. The link is to Keith Schreiber's blog who published Walker's workaround to share with the world. 10 pages with photos I printed out.

https://jkschreiber.wordpress.com/20...-an-epson3880/

Anyways this is the level of support I get. Too bad for you that it is a private forum.

Also another quote from Walker, "Pro does not replicate or obsolete K7."
This was in response to a poster on a thread within this private forum. Anyways I have access to an expert, mentor, master printer.

I am learning so much, and now it becomes clear to me that having a dedicated K7 printer and a dedicated PP printer makes sense.

Also at B&H I somehow am widely known, and somehow I have a line on yet another Epson large format printer. I don't know the model yet, but I do know that it is a floor standing model without its stand, and that the heads are somewhat clogged. If it is a 7800 or 7880 this would be ideal, since I already own a complete set of carts dedicated for Piezoflush, and I also have an entire set of spare carts I initially bought for PP on my 7800.

My 7800 is kinda big, I call it the Jersey Barrier, and my fashion blogger girlfriend did not like the size of the printer when I brought it home to a 650 square foot apartment.

I'm not making fun of hill billies because I consider myself one. I say all the time that I use to be a hill billie from Queens, and that formally I was also a hill billie from Brooklyn, because now I live in Madhattan.

Also know that the expression "You know you are a hill billie when half the cars you own are not on the road or don't work." That definition definately pertains to me, and at one time I owned five cars. I'm sure my neighbors in the afluent suberbs of Long Island did not like living next to a hill billy, and in fact one neighbor asked and requested politely if I could not park my old car in front of her house (4 door blue 1960 Ford Falcon) basically because it was an eyesore. LOL.

So here is my hill billy wisdom. The best printers with the longest lifespans and print head life are the 38XX, 78XX, and 98XX series printers. These are the real work horses. They don't make them like they use to, and they made many of them. These printers are deemed user repairable, so one could do the hill billy thing and basically keep one going for decades. Also it would be wise to kinda create a used printer scrapyard if you are so inclined like me, even it involves renting Public Storage.

I also printed two 8 1/2X11's last night: one was on Canson Prestige, a baryta coated paper; and the other on Canson Baryta Photographique.
These are very bright smooth papers that have surfaces that resemble a silver wet print. The Prestige has a bit more texture that resembles very fine Italian goat leather of Prada like quality.

I had no curves for the Prestige because it is a brand new offering from Canson, and I only had the Prestige because my friend Robert Rodriguez from the Canson booth at PhotoPlusExpo gifted me a sample pack. I used the curves and settings for the Baryta Photographique for both prints. The results are a close match where one could see a difference, but no clear winner.

Years ago Robert Rodriguez and I became friends and back then I asked him about some of his work displayed at the Canson booth. In particular I wanted to know more about the Canson Platine Fibre Rag and the Canson Baryta Photographique.

Robert's response was having me handle a Platine Fibre Rag print to have me feel the weight and the 100% cotton rag, and then he revealed if you give a prospective buyer that experience of feeling the print that it promotes a sale.

On the other hand if it was a framed print Robert like the Baryta Photographique for its smoothness. This paper is mucho glossy and it reveals more detail via its smoothness. I can see why one might prefer the smoothness under glass and minimizing the scattering of light.

So now my experience of sadness last night has turned into rapture. The 3880 now is a very very valuable printer, and from the response from Walker from a posted thread I learned that it would be wise to maintain both K7 and PP.

For those who still want to purchase a 3880, last week I found on EBAY that Adorama was offering Epson refurbished 3880's for $829.00 with free shipping. Selling the $450 retail price of the OEM inkset can lower your costs further. Although not recommended I did not test my printer with color inks like it was recommended, and I gave the unused carts to a friend.

The hill billy in me wanted to buy one, even to store as a spare. I don't know how many are left currently, but last week they had six left. It seems from my data mining the only weak link in a 3880 is the switch and switching from Matte to Glossy. It seems either the switching or the valve fails. In my 3880 which I purchased new and got a $250.00 Epson rebate, I never loaded Matte Black ink, nor did I ever switch blacks.

It does seem that wide borders are a big selling point on a print, and surely borders offer a great presentation. I learned from professional framers at AI Friedman that they like 2 inch borders to float a print between a backing mat and a cut window mat. It seems the broad borders makes it easy for a print to lie flat. Because of this 13x19 is my image size and 17x22 is my paper size.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-06-2017   #47
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
I am very happy because I defeated the dreadful Pizza Wheel problem. It seems that by opening the front feed and tricking a switch that the pin wheels can be deactivated. The mod was advertised as non-destructive, but I ended up removing the paper guide off the front load because the suggested ramp only caused a head strike on the right edge of the print towards the tail end. I used some lightweight wire flush wire cutters and used about 2 1/2 inches of one inch masking tape to cover the wound.

I did not have a printer cleaning swab, so I improvised and used a disposable hearing protection foam plug, after I learned via probing with a chop stick that only a little force was required to activate the switch.

I also found out that the optional pushing out of the way of the hindged guides is manditory because with paper the front edge of the paper catches and begins to start folding your print. Basically the rest of the mod for digital negatives applies. There is a bit of a staircase from the front load to the regular exit tray, and I found that a subway map or anything about that thickness is required to prevent the paper from buckling towards the end of the print.

The good is: no more Pizza Wheels, you use the traditional rear single sheet loading, and you get perfect prints.

The bad: you have to permanently remove the right hand paper guide to avoid head strikes towards the end of your prints. (moot for me because in two years of ownership I never used the front feed.) Since the pinwheels are no longer used the end of the print can get skewed so rather large margins are required like 1 1/2 inches on the trailing edge.

So now a very negative limitation of the paper transport on a 3880 is gone, and it is replaced with a moot quirk because I like printing with wide margins anyway.

BTW the Canson Prestige and Canson Baryta Photographique make prints that truely look like silver wet prints. The smooth surfaces are really growing on me.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-06-2017   #48
Vince Lupo
Registered User
 
Vince Lupo's Avatar
 
Vince Lupo is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA; Toronto, Ont, Canada
Posts: 3,978
Cal, there are a number of sources (Epson included) that state that if you use the front load option, you won't have pizza wheels. I don't believe you need to go through any other process beyond simply using the front load option. I've used front loading exclusively for about two years and have never had an issue.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-06-2017   #49
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince Lupo View Post
Cal, there are a number of sources (Epson included) that state that if you use the front load option, you won't have pizza wheels. I don't believe you need to go through any other process beyond simply using the front load option. I've used front loading exclusively for about two years and have never had an issue.
Vince,

On some 3880's your front load suggestion does not work. Too bad on my machine it did not work.

In the link above the author had one 3880 that front loading worked, and one that didn't. Oh-well.

Anyways I really appreciated your suggestion from so long ago from another thread, but it didn't work for me.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-06-2017   #50
pareshpandit
'insert smart phrase'
 
pareshpandit's Avatar
 
pareshpandit is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mumbai, India
Age: 32
Posts: 5
Hi,

Thanks for this thread, Cal; this is epic!

I am looking to buy an inkjet that can serve for both my printing needs in Colour as well as Black & White, and also to help with printing DN for Alt Processes. Somehow came across another thread @RFF about printers, and it was such a treat to have found my way to this thread eventually – lots of relevant info!

Now, I am in quite a soup in terms of choice out here, since only the Epson 4900 seems to be a real choice in my region (India – epson.co.in) for an archival-grade wide-gamut inkjet printer upto A3+. But I am concerned since you have time and again cited that it has serious clogging issues. The other credible choices from Epson here are L1800 , and SureColor SCP 407/607/807. I believe that none of these will be as compatible with Piezography either, and are not as good as the 4900 in terms of the OEM ink-set's gamut either. :/

All in all, think I need to go for the 4900 now. One question that I wanted to pose was: If I want to use both the OEM inks (for colour) and Piezography/PiezographyPro (for BW & DN), is it then advisable that I have two separate printers for these–since there will be too much ink loss in switching between them?

I am quite a newbie to deep-diving into such art-grade inkjet printing, so kindly do excuse my naivety. (Have long been getting things printed over the larger Epson LF Printers from a friendly lab, as needed. But I now feel the need to get into printing, to up my photography/creative skills, as well as to have a higher degree of output control.)

Many thanks in advance, for your guidance!

Best regards,
Paresh
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-06-2017   #51
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by pareshpandit View Post
Hi,

Thanks for this thread, Cal; this is epic!

I am looking to buy an inkjet that can serve for both my printing needs in Colour as well as Black & White, and also to help with printing DN for Alt Processes. Somehow came across another thread @RFF about printers, and it was such a treat to have found my way to this thread eventually – lots of relevant info!

Now, I am in quite a soup in terms of choice out here, since only the Epson 4900 seems to be a real choice in my region (India – epson.co.in) for an archival-grade wide-gamut inkjet printer upto A3+. But I am concerned since you have time and again cited that it has serious clogging issues. The other credible choices from Epson here are L1800 , and SureColor SCP 407/607/807. I believe that none of these will be as compatible with Piezography either, and are not as good as the 4900 in terms of the OEM ink-set's gamut either. :/

All in all, think I need to go for the 4900 now. One question that I wanted to pose was: If I want to use both the OEM inks (for colour) and Piezography/PiezographyPro (for BW & DN), is it then advisable that I have two separate printers for these–since there will be too much ink loss in switching between them?

I am quite a newbie to deep-diving into such art-grade inkjet printing, so kindly do excuse my naivety. (Have long been getting things printed over the larger Epson LF Printers from a friendly lab, as needed. But I now feel the need to get into printing, to up my photography/creative skills, as well as to have a higher degree of output control.)

Many thanks in advance, for your guidance!

Best regards,
Paresh
Paresh,

I am flattered, but realize I am not a color printer, and any scope of knowledge I have is very-very narrowly focused. There are only two very small areas that I only have experience, and know that although I dove deep into full immersion that I only do a few things well.

I think having one printer for both color and B&W is not practical. I do know that when converting a color printer to a Piezography printer that "staining" can occur particularly in the yellow channel for some time, unless Piezoflush is used to clean out the residual inks/residue.

I assume the reverse would be true if converting B&W to color. BTW Piezoflush is not inexpensive. I buy it by the gallon which is about $300.00. Add onto that a set of carts. Know that even though I got my 7800 for only $100.00 that I ended up spending almost $500.00 to load it with Piezoflush to store it for almost half a year. I would estimate that each 7800 refilable cart is about 350-400 ml. My Jersey Barrier is a monster. The carts are oversized, and I removed the doors because they serve no purpose and because I did not want them to get trashed.

If you do get a 4900, 7900, or 9900 these printers could easily do your digital negatives and various types of Piezography without any ink changes. Clearly because of the vast amount of carts (11 I believe) the gamut is mucho wide.

I know there are many reports of clogging issues and short print head life, but there are also many reports of no issues. It does remain that the color inksets with the extra channels has great gamut, and also these extra channels allow a lot of flexibility for B&W and digital negatives without ink changes allowing a choice of capabilities.

One benefit is that Piezography Pro for the 4900 uses additional light-light cool and additional light-light warm. These additional shades are reported to make better/smoother highlights.

The X900 printers definitely are flexible and have capabilities, but if I were you you could buy two Epson 3880's that were refurbished by Epson that I mentioned in an above post and have two printers at a cost of 2x $829.00.

If you load PP into one you have digital negative and B&W one pass printing covered. In the second printer you would have your color printer and the extra $450.00 color inkset to utilize. Two 3880's will likely outlast one 4900 IMHO. I do not think you are considering the amount of money required for paper and ink.

In my first year of serious printing I spent $10K, granted that I still have some of those supplies, but add onto that I most recently (end of 2016) spent $3.1K on ink and carts alone and I need to stockpile paper... Also understand that part of last year I had both printers loaded with Piezoflush for a 6 month break from printing.

The refurbished 3880's I saw on EBAY last week and there were six available. Shipping was free but not to India. Have anyone here in the states? Friends? Family?

Anyways I know keeping and maintaining two printers is a lot. It is kinda crazy, but you sound like a serous guy like me.

Mucho more information on Jon Cone's Piezography.com as far as compatability, capability, and information overload if you want it.

Also know that when I do get yet another printer for color I hope to be able to use Cone Color Pigmented inks to keep costs low and use refillable carts.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-06-2017   #52
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
If you have 1.5" borders (or 2" borders as suggested by your framer friend), you are really limiting your print size with the 3880. Does that really make sense? 1" borders should be more than adequate.
F,

You are correct it is limiting print size on a 3880, but realize I also own and use a 7800 for printing larger.

Even with the 7800 there are limitations. On the 7800 one inch borders are minimum, and on some Epson printers there are rather severe margin limitations or special work arounds required.

There are things one can do and not do, and one must either compromise or except limitations. Everything is not perfect.

I think my framer friend was trying to explain best practices, but for practical reasons 2 inches allows flexibility in adding a border within the opening of the mat which can be pleasing. I think more paper under the mat might also help keep the print lay flatter. With only one inch one might limit options and flexibility.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-06-2017   #53
vytasn
Registered User
 
vytasn's Avatar
 
vytasn is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 72
I have an Epson P800 and the only option that does not give me pizza wheel marks with Canson Baryta is the front poster load option. I adjust the border size to accommodate this type of loading. I only notice the pizza wheel marks when I have extensive monochrome areas, otherwise I use the sheet feed.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-07-2017   #54
pareshpandit
'insert smart phrase'
 
pareshpandit's Avatar
 
pareshpandit is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mumbai, India
Age: 32
Posts: 5
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone View Post
Paresh,

I am flattered, but realize I am not a color printer, and any scope of knowledge I have is very-very narrowly focused. There are only two very small areas that I only have experience, and know that although I dove deep into full immersion that I only do a few things well.

I think having one printer for both color and B&W is not practical. I do know that when converting a color printer to a Piezography printer that "staining" can occur particularly in the yellow channel for some time, unless Piezoflush is used to clean out the residual inks/residue.

I assume the reverse would be true if converting B&W to color. BTW Piezoflush is not inexpensive. I buy it by the gallon which is about $300.00. Add onto that a set of carts. Know that even though I got my 7800 for only $100.00 that I ended up spending almost $500.00 to load it with Piezoflush to store it for almost half a year. I would estimate that each 7800 refilable cart is about 350-400 ml. My Jersey Barrier is a monster. The carts are oversized, and I removed the doors because they serve no purpose and because I did not want them to get trashed.

If you do get a 4900, 7900, or 9900 these printers could easily do your digital negatives and various types of Piezography without any ink changes. Clearly because of the vast amount of carts (11 I believe) the gamut is mucho wide.

I know there are many reports of clogging issues and short print head life, but there are also many reports of no issues. It does remain that the color inksets with the extra channels has great gamut, and also these extra channels allow a lot of flexibility for B&W and digital negatives without ink changes allowing a choice of capabilities.

One benefit is that Piezography Pro for the 4900 uses additional light-light cool and additional light-light warm. These additional shades are reported to make better/smoother highlights.

The X900 printers definitely are flexible and have capabilities, but if I were you you could buy two Epson 3880's that were refurbished by Epson that I mentioned in an above post and have two printers at a cost of 2x $829.00.

If you load PP into one you have digital negative and B&W one pass printing covered. In the second printer you would have your color printer and the extra $450.00 color inkset to utilize. Two 3880's will likely outlast one 4900 IMHO. I do not think you are considering the amount of money required for paper and ink.

In my first year of serious printing I spent $10K, granted that I still have some of those supplies, but add onto that I most recently (end of 2016) spent $3.1K on ink and carts alone and I need to stockpile paper... Also understand that part of last year I had both printers loaded with Piezoflush for a 6 month break from printing.

The refurbished 3880's I saw on EBAY last week and there were six available. Shipping was free but not to India. Have anyone here in the states? Friends? Family?

Anyways I know keeping and maintaining two printers is a lot. It is kinda crazy, but you sound like a serous guy like me.

Mucho more information on Jon Cone's Piezography.com as far as compatability, capability, and information overload if you want it.

Also know that when I do get yet another printer for color I hope to be able to use Cone Color Pigmented inks to keep costs low and use refillable carts.

Cal
Hi Cal,

Many thanks for addressing my post in detail; humbly appreciate it.

Like you said, I am also not really looking at it so much for colour reproduction at the moment, as much for BW and DN, primarily! And you are right also in mentioning that I am getting ready to wholeheartedly dive into this now, in all seriousness. Why do anything any other way than the way it is supposed to be done, right!? [Especially considering the costs involved, am testing my waters and making photographer-level back-of-the-envelope-calculations to make sure that I don't end up gathering all the equipment and then not have money for ink/paper/salts/chemicals/etc...] Fingers crossed on that one! ;D

I concur with your suggestion that perhaps I should invest in two refurb/well-kept 3880s instead of a new 4900 or something. This way, I guess, I can also keep open the option of acquiring them one by one while incurring lesser costs at a time. I plan to probably start with at least one, and purchase PP (am on the wait list for updates already ) and maybe also PiezoFlush with it. This makes sense to me as I think that it is more crucial to ensure the right workflow for a BW and DN before colour. Because OEMs are focussing so much on colour, so it doesn't really leave too much to tune, comparatively. So for colour, I can still keep getting a pretty good result form my current print-lab which has 9X00s with Epson inks.

Further, for colour, on a second 3880, I can perhaps get the Cone Colour supplies, like you suggested, at a later time. On verra.

Also, when you suggested eFay, realised that I can get a printer sans-ink over eFay. There is a dual advantage to it. For one, I can immediately switch to PP; and for another, this gives a lower CIF value in case I have to get it shipped somehow from the US. Thus, lesser charge at the customs, if it comes-in by courier. [Because, tbh, even if I get it delivered to a friend/relative @ US, there is again a question of carrying it along, and waiting-out for them to make an India trip.] Thus, I am also thinking re-shippers at this moment. Not sure though.

All in all, thanks to your advise, and thoughts that have sparked form it, this is starting to sound like a much solid plan...!!

Best regards,
Paresh
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-09-2017   #55
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by pareshpandit View Post

Like you said, I am also not really looking at it so much for colour reproduction at the moment, as much for BW and DN, primarily! And you are right also in mentioning that I am getting ready to wholeheartedly dive into this now, in all seriousness. Why do anything any other way than the way it is supposed to be done, right!? [Especially considering the costs involved, am testing my waters and making photographer-level back-of-the-envelope-calculations to make sure that I don't end up gathering all the equipment and then not have money for ink/paper/salts/chemicals/etc...] Fingers crossed on that one! ;D


Paresh
Paresh,

You are welcome.

Understand that 4 years ago I bought a Leica Monochrom ($8K) and for only the last two years have I been printing digitally.

Anyways it kinda pays to hold off until you really know what you want because even a 3880 can use a lot of paper and ink. A 7800 is even more thirsty and hungry.

Do you research. For those first two years when I first had my MM all I did was read and do research. I'm glad I did.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-09-2017   #56
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
11x14 on 13x19 paper leaves 1" and 2.5" boarders available. I would not want to have to step up to a 7800 just to print 11x14 (or 10x15 for full frame 35mm). I guess if you have a 7800, its a moot issue. Only so much space in my workroom.
I came up with a solution I will call the "Faberrman Workaround" that allows me to print with small borders.

Using "Print Tool" I create a custom paper size that is half the 13x19 sheet size. In my case I set up 1 inch borders on three sides to make a print that has an 11 inch length, I have to invert the image upside down to get the placement I want on the page, and I print half the sheet. After the image is printed the sheet gets ejected. This allows me to use different/separate printer driver blended curves. Basically no hassle, but a little extra work.

It seems that the exaggerated border is only needed at the tail end of the print, so I leave a rather big tail that is half the sheet, I let the first print dry and then print on the unused side of the sheet to print two prints on one 13x19.

I have not done it yet but I don't see why I couldn't reduce the borders further and print say two 8x12's on one sheet of 13x19. I printed about ten prints like this on Canson Platine Fibre Rag instead of watching the Golden Globe Awards with my gal. I likely could reduce the borders to 1/4 inch if I wanted to, but it would be two prints to one sheet.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-09-2017   #57
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
So I have used PP enough to express some opinion. The blacks are profound and are likely the blackest black I have ever seen, so much so that the contrast can be heavy, and on some optimized tiffs for K7 contrast has to be lowered. The net effect of PP is not only a darker black, but more contrast.

I can see why K7 is not obsolete: it is just different, but PP wins as far as wider dynamic range, a darker black, and convenience. To print a half sheet of 13x19 it takes only 8 minutes at 2880 DPI and unidirectional.

K7 seems to use a heavier dose of Gloss Overcoat, and in use one uses mostly mid tones, very little black, and only a little of the light tones. In K7 the overlapping of curves for each ink is broader, and there are more inks, but I do not see any difference in the highlights between a K7 print to a PP when comparing 13x19's. It will likely take a much larger print to see any difference in the highlights, but in the shadows PP is mucho deeper. In use PP inks seem to all go down and get consumed at the same rate.

I would believe that K7 will likely control the mid domain with more shades and longer "tails" that overlap on the curves, but it will take 20x30's maybe to see the difference.

That is the problem with Piezography. Small prints are kinda high contrast, and a lot of detail is not revealed until the image is printed big. When printed big (bigger than 13x19) that's when the tonal range really expands and the midrange opens up in a profound way.

I can already see that my small prints are somewhat compressed in both tone and detail, but the contrast is punchy and striking.

I am finding that using the "Faberryman Workaround" to be easy to use and convenient and fast. I made my custom paper profile the perfect size so that I can center an image with an exactly 11 inch width to have a 1 inch border on all four sides. There remains about a half inch gap, a no man's land of sorts, that divides and separates the two prints. I did this intentionally because my 3880, Canson Platine Fibre Rag, and PP are ideal to create pages to create an workbook of prints that I can bind individual pages of 100% rag paper into a book. I can write the curve settings on the back of the prints with file number and other useful information.

Saturday was a frustrating day of mucho headstrikes and wasting of paper. It seems that the ink load is kinda severe so there may be a size limitation to a 3880. It seems as print size gets scaled up so does the ink load, but not in a linear manner. Raising the platine to wide and even wider did not prevent headstrikes with Jon Cone Type 5 because the paper buckles and bows like a banana.

Anyways it seems the PP loves smoother baryta papers. The Baryta Photographic which is $1.27 a sheet in 8 1/2x11 with NYC sales tax is my cheap paper (celulose), and it is a very bright paper. The Canson Presige is brighter still, but costly. I think the Canson Platine Fibre Rag is a great paper, slightly textured, but still smooth. Being a 100% rag paper, it has that feel in the hands. The Prestige is a blend of cotton and cellulose and somehow costs more than the Platine.

So 3880 for making books I am finding to be the inspiration. I hope to scale everything up one day to the 7800 and 24 inch roll paper to make a "table book" using all cotton rag paper. Anyways an impressive way to show your work, but still not too big to handle.

BTW the small prints already "speak." They look great, and because of the Gloss Chroma Overcoat they are durable and can be handled. Basically I can drool on my prints and cause no damage. LOL.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-09-2017   #58
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
I print small full frame 35mm silver gelatin prints at 6.25 x 9.375 on 8x10 paper. That gives me .875" and .315" borders. I over mat with a 6x9 opening which gives me an even 2.5" mat border all the way around in an 11x14 frame. I don't have any problems with the prints not staying flat under the mat. It may sound stingy, but 11x14 paper cost double what 8x10 paper cost, so borders are expensive. If I were selling my prints for $1000 a pop, then I would do it differently. Some people like to have the white border of the print show inside the mat, so my dimensions wouldn't work for them. I do it the old fashion way. You have more flexibility with digital prints because the paper comes in the 8.5x11 size. I won't bore you with the details of my larger size prints.
F,

Printing is expensive. I'm stingy too. I do everything I can do to contain costs like buying in bulk and using sales, but those costs do add up.

Also I have been looking into standardized framing and mats because custom frames are out of the question.

Anyways I envy you for having a wet darkroom. I don't have the space nor the money. I'm broke already. I do know where all my disposable income goes though. LOL.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-09-2017   #59
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
Every carton of PP cartridges should come with a bib.
F,

I was kinda being literal since Glossy Piezo prints can be handled like one of your wet prints and are not as fragile as typical ink jet prints. As a demonstration I take some spit on my finger and wipe my wet finger across one of my prints which I dry with a napkin. No damage results. LOL.

I'll be sure to do it again this Sunday at the NYC Meet-Up when I show off some prints.

Also from printing big I learned that there is something very nice about holding say a 13x19 or smaller print in one's hands. A very different experience than seeing a print framed on the wall. I think the book I am making will have a similar experience.

BTW thanks for the inspiration that helped me adjust my borders.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-09-2017   #60
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by vytasn View Post
I have an Epson P800 and the only option that does not give me pizza wheel marks with Canson Baryta is the front poster load option. I adjust the border size to accommodate this type of loading. I only notice the pizza wheel marks when I have extensive monochrome areas, otherwise I use the sheet feed.
V,

I wonder what are the border restrictions that are imposed with front loading? I am unaware because my 3880 could not front load.

The "Faberryman Workaround" I mentioned could possibly allow you to likewise use smaller borders if it is just a lengthy trailing edge that is required to avoid skewing and head strikes.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-10-2017   #61
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
I failed to mention that for the most recent printing I used NYC night shots that utilize extensive blacks. The purpose is to explore the worse case with Pizza Wheels and with seeing how to manuver around the border restrictions.

I want to test to see if there are limitations to using a 17x22 when using the Faberryman Workaround due to ink load that might cause head strikes.

Currently I advance the platen gap from normal to wide for Canson Platine Fibre Rag. The Jon Cone Type 5 due to ink load is unusable, and I had a difficult Saturday full of head strikes due to paper that buckled and bowed like a banana.

Last night I located my "Bone Folders" from two decades ago. Back then I took a bookbinding course and met my gal. When I folded the Canson Platine Fibre Rag it made the Baryta clay flake and the paper I feel got compromised too much structurally to my liking. Oh-well. I have a plan "B" that will be yet another workaround to make a page, but it now involves more work and creating a hinge to spine interface. Anyways this damage will be where I cut the two prints apart so the damage I mentioned becomes moot.

I am very anxious to see big prints because of how the detail and tonality comes out. I know from printing these tiffs that these small prints have compressed the image and the tonality. The expansion should be profound and deep.

Somehow I feel like a crack head or a drug addict. Been printing every day, except the one day when I reloaded my carts and let the air bubbles and foam settle. Now I'm worrying about running out of paper. That 25 sheet box of Canson 13x19 is almost gone and this Thursday or tomorrow I'll have to load again ($108 with NYC tax). I'm considering using Canson Baryta Photographique which is 100% cellulose which is a few dollars cheaper, but the size increases to 17x22 ($104 with NYC tax). Pretty easy to spend $100.00 a week on just paper alone. Using my Jersey Barrier just multiplies the costs.

Perhaps I'll use the small batch of 11 inch prints (two on 13x19) to make a small mock-up of a book to develop and work out problems. Maybe I can print two 10x15's on a 17x22?

No loss from my failure with Jon Cone Type 5. It seems that PP loves bright smooth Baryta papers that Canson makes. Seems almost like PP was designed especially for them.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-10-2017   #62
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
Definitely think about standardizing print sizes, mats and frames. I have a bunch of mats I have precut and frames I have stockpiled. It's nice to pull a print off the drying screen, pop it into the drymount press for flattening, and five minutes later have it matted and framed. I don't show anything to anybody unless it is at least matted. It makes a huge difference.
F,

Last year I had the honor of printing for exhibition some of my friend's work. The work was shown in Hong Kong as part of a book release. In doing the printing I made sure my friend took into consideration framing, because otherwise custom framing would be cost prohibited.

Sometimes one has to print to use stock sizes, and print sizes have to be carefully considered. Custom framing gets costly very fast.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-10-2017   #63
walkerblackwell
Registered User
 
walkerblackwell is offline
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Just an update to Pro. I finished the *beta* master curve for PiezoDN (digital negative) for Pro inks today. It's available from the PiezoDN download for anyone who has the inkset and wants to make negs.

best,
Walker
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-10-2017   #64
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by walkerblackwell View Post
Just an update to Pro. I finished the *beta* master curve for PiezoDN (digital negative) for Pro inks today. It's available from the PiezoDN download for anyone who has the inkset and wants to make negs.

best,
Walker
Walker,

Thanks for the heads up.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-11-2017   #65
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Today looks like I need to do a run to B&H for more paper. 25 sheets lasts about a week.

I'll be sharing some of this work with a friend at B&H. Hope I have no problem smuggling my prints past the baggage check.

I think I will be graduating to Canson Baryta Photographique in 17x22. I am curious if I can scale things up by using a long trailing edge that will later serve a purpose when binding a book.

I'll be saving about $5.00 on the larger sheet, but I'll be printing on cellulose paper instead of 100% cotton rag.

My goal is if I can get a 13x19.5 offset for binding a landscape book. With the Faberryman I'm able to print 11 inches wide for my image size, so it hopefull is not too big a jump. The question I need to resolve is how much trailing tail do I need to avoid head strikes.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-12-2017   #66
walkerblackwell
Registered User
 
walkerblackwell is offline
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 7
Just FYI. You will want to look very closely at how the GCO works on the white of Canson Baryta. I'm not over-joyed by how canson baryta works. A few batches of this paper don't play well with GCO (nor Hahnemuhle Photo Silk which is essentially the same paper). This is the one paper Canson doesn't actually mill or coat which is part of the reason why it went to Epson as their legacy baryta but also why they came out with Prestige.

I've created a lew of profiles that are called "NWGCO" that do not print GCO into the white of the paper. Pulling you highlights down to 1% or 2% tone will keep GCO throughout the image but not into the white borders.

This may be a way to forgo any issues in the white of canson baryta when their batches shift (generally I saw this only on their ROLL batches but I think it's unstable.)

best,
Walker

I do not see any issue on any other paper.

Last edited by walkerblackwell : 01-12-2017 at 06:46. Reason: typo
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-12-2017   #67
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
So it has been a week and I need to take the "Q" train to B&H and get my weekly fix of paper. I decided to go Canson Baryta Photographique in 17x22 to print for expanded detail, not knowing of how to deal with the extended trailing margin.

The price point with the Canson Baryta Photographique is at $94.00, I save $5.00, and get 17x22 over 13x19 Canson Platine Fibre Rag. The Platine is the 100% rag paper that feels so nice in the hands, but the Baryta is smoother, brighter (trace amounts of OBA's), and is buffered cellulose.

I carry a large archival museum box of prints to show my pals in the used department at B&H, and Pedro at the door told me to go right in, so my concerns about having to check in my parcel were unfounded. I felt mighty cool.

When I opened the box of prints, Brent respectively just looked at the top print. My guess is that he did not want to handle or damage the prints knowing that they were inkjet prints, so then I wet my finger with my spit and I wipe the surface of the print and then squeege the moisture across the print with the palm of my hand. "It is O.K. to pick up the prints and handle them as if they were wet prints," I said. Anyways the demo drew lots of attention and a flash mob began to happen.

What universally happened is that everyone was kinda blown away. The small prints had punchy contrast and everyone loved the black-black, but the larger prints were favored for the expanded tonality and additional fine detail. I further explained how the detail from my Monochrom holds up and expands even further in 20x30 prints.

The largest prints were 13x19 almost full sheet size except for 1/4 inch borders. Everyone like the PP print of the white Montreal Dog over the K7 print. The image had a more 3-D rendering and depth, but I had to point out that the dog's right ear displayed slightly higher resolution in the highlights on the K7 print. Perhaps in a larger print this tiny/subtle difference might get amplified, but in comparing 13x19's the difference requires very-very careful study to notice. Basically I had to point it out.

I was asked if nightshooting is what I do, and I revealed I chose the night shots for testing purposes because I wanted to explore the blacks and shadow details. I explained the Montreal Dog shot as one of those shots of reflections in plate glass windows that look so good in a viewfinder that are so difficult to render in a print, and the Highline car/food vender shot was to render the dusky orange golden hour on the West Side of Madhattan with split tone and strong contrast. I was also asked if the night shots were taken with a tripod because of the detailed rendering. (Monochrom 800 ISO, Nikkor 35/1.8 LTM single coated retro glass).

So anyways I deeply impressed a group of guys who have trained eyes with my early printing that have been just experiments over the past 10 -12 days.

Last night I printed some 12x18's. I used a paper size of 17x20 allowing for an extended trailing margin to avoid those dreaded head strikes. This seems to be the size where tonality and fine detail gets revealed. I would say that this is kinda where you need to print if you are shooting a Monochrom. Smaller prints seem to be compressed.

It seems that I am ahead of schedule as far as printing pages for a larger book. It seems like I am assembling prints that use 12x18 image size for a 17x22 inch book.

One image I printed last night is an almost black on black print. I thought this would be a difficult print to print due to ink load. Last summer there was this high rise building that had a decorative canvas shrouding perhaps a 25 or 30 story building on 57th Street. The canvas depicts a building and hides the building being renovated behind the canvas, and it seems drawn over scalfolding. Now imaging this image at night. Anyways it appears as an abstraction.

In the 12x18 inch print there appears to be fine Arcros like grain (Monochrom 800 ISO) in the blacks, but not in the highlights. The sky is black, like intense black, vividly black, anyways no real way to describe it except you have not seen black like this. There is warmth from the splitone, and a neutral grey that adds depth. This print is "stunning."

Anyways I still reserve judgement and need to compare even larger K7 and PP prints. I do know that I will likely dilute my shade 3 further in my K7 splitone to more closely resemble the results I get with PP. I will mix my shade 3 to be 33% Selenium instead of 25% to tone down the warmth further and make the midrange have a broader "neutral" spread between shades 3 and 4. Perhaps what I'm seeing in PP is the darkest black available, cool highlights, neutral mids, and warm shadows. Basically a broader midrage due to a neutral difference between the cool highlights and warm shadows.

The split tone really is four way and I think that a revised K7 with increased dilution in shade three will reveal a more neutral midrange that perhaps is a little broader to add yet another layer of distinction and detail that draws the eye in. Basically yet another nuance.

IMHO Piezography kinda requires at least a 13x19 sized print, otherwise you don't have the image size to exploit the distinctions and advantages. It seems a 3880 is kinda limited, and from experience owning a 3880 that one will always wish for a larger printer. I'm so glad I have a 7800.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-12-2017   #68
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by walkerblackwell View Post
Just FYI. You will want to look very closely at how the GCO works on the white of Canson Baryta. I'm not over-joyed by how canson baryta works. A few batches of this paper don't play well with GCO (nor Hahnemuhle Photo Silk which is essentially the same paper). This is the one paper Canson doesn't actually mill or coat which is part of the reason why it went to Epson as their legacy baryta but also why they came out with Prestige.

I've created a lew of profiles that are called "NWGCO" that do not print GCO into the white of the paper. Pulling you highlights down to 1% or 2% tone will keep GCO throughout the image but not into the white borders.

This may be a way to forgo any issues in the white of canson baryta when their batches shift (generally I saw this only on their ROLL batches but I think it's unstable.)

best,
Walker

I do not see any issue on any other paper.
Walker,

Again thanks so much for being my mentor. Lowering the overprinting in the margins also allows me to print my image size larger, saves GCO, and allows me some flexibility in page layout using the workaround you provided to avoid Pizza Wheeling.

I'll be sure to download "NWGCO" this weekend. I 'll start a thread on the PPE Forum to get a link started.

I'm looking forward to the availability of "Prestige." From Scott's numbers and testing on the Private PP Forum, I think the dark black that Scott measured in his test, makes Prestige seem to have a whiter-white.

I spoke with Gil at B&H yesterday. Gil is the paper expert at B&H, and I inquired about the delay with Prestige availability. Gil mentioned a change over in ownership as the cause.

I am currently using the Canson Baryta because of price and availability. The Prestige is even more expensive than the Platine Fibre Rag. The Prestige seems to have that look as well as the feel at 340 GSM.

Thanks again for stopping in.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-12-2017   #69
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
BTW for you lurkers on this thread. This Sunday is the January NYC Meet-Up. I'll be bringing a box of prints to show some of the testing, and I should have a few more 12x18's that will be book pages. I also have a small mock-up of this tiny book I made from slides that I will use to design my coffee table books.

1:00 PM Lorelie's on Rivington, by the New ICP on the Bowelry.

The prints speak for themselves.

I'll be bringing my Otte Lite that produces D-5000 (daylight). Come see my famous spit on my print demo. LOL. (Don't do this to non Piezography Glossy prints) LOL.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-12-2017   #70
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
UPDATE: I got a PM from Walker. It seems when I downloaded the new curves that I already have the "NWGCO" curves already from my initial download. I will try them tonight.

The level of support I am getting is so great. It is also great to be surrounded by all these DN guys that are so advanced in these private forums. I only lurk, but a rising tide raises all ships. Anyways I kinda have a private mentor, and the response is always quick.

Know that my friend Scott from PPE also does DN. It seems somehow I did a Calzone thing and kinda cornered the market on Canson Prestige Barata. My friend Robert Rodriguez gave me a sample pack at PhotoPlusExpo, and Robert also gifted a sample pack of Prestige to my friend Joe, but somehow I ended up with both sample packs before the day was over. LOL.

Then I learned that Prestige is not available, basically it is backordered all over the planet, and I kinda have the Prestige market kinda cornered. So I send off Joe's sample pack to Scott who quantified the tonal response of this paper. A mucho deeper black.

I had started a thread on this private forum (PPE only) comparing Canson Baryta Photographique against the Prestige Baryta using the Baryta Photographic curves. Interesting to note that the blacker black seems to make the paper white seem whiter. Looking for extended contrast or long tonal range? Perhaps this is a good paper for you. The only downsides are: trace OBA's, no availability, and price. The Prestige costs more than my 100% cotton rag Platine, even though it is a blend of cellulose and cotton.

Anyways I have two 8 1/2x11's to show how this new paper looks like. Also it is very heavy at 340 gsm.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-13-2017   #71
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
So I ended up making mucho prints last night. The box of 25 sheets of 17x22 is over half gone already.

The book now looks to be a 17x22 mock-up, and I will likely upgrade to the Canson Platine Fibre Rag for the big book when I put the 7800 online.

I think I can recreate the look of PP in K7 by extending the neutral transition by diluting shade 3 further. I have a lot of K7 ink stockpiled that I initially will use, so there will be some crazy overlap of running and maintaining two printers at the same time. I'll learn what it is like to have two inksets available at the same time.

I have a few more images I want to print for my book before the Sunday NYC Meet-Up. Pretty much will be showing some new capabilities and progress.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-17-2017   #72
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
So it has been just over two weeks of printing, and Saturday I pulled some K7 prints I had made to compare with PP prints I made from the same tiffs. The K7 has smoother highlights, but PP has advanced/enhanced shadows.

The difference in the highlights is very slight and perhaps is only noticible if I tell you or if you have a highly trained eye. The difference in the shadows in PP is dramatic due to a more intense black (darkest available) intensified by a wider dynamic range compounded by using smoother baryta coated papers that are brighter (trace amounts of OBA's).

Anyways PP loves the smoother brighter papers and Canson Baryta Presige seems ideal for that extra long tonal range because it prints a darker black than the Canson Baryta Photographique. I can't wait till it becomes readily available.

With less contrast and dynamic range, K7 seems to emphisize a broader midrange, and ideally one should have both K7 and PP to be able to print both depending on image tonality. Still no clear winner, and I love both inksets. What I learned from PP is that a broader neutral midrange is an added nuance that adds a lot of depth.

Looking forward to diluting my shade 3 further to extend that neutral midrange to tone down the warmth a bit further into the shadows. It seems the Canson Papers (Platine, Photographique, and Prestige) all have inherent warmth so there is an abundance that needs to be controlled and toned down in a subtractive manner.

So here is the splitone experience for those not familiar: I use a D-5000 (daylight) Ott Lite to judge my prints and a tungstan lamp. In D-5000 my prints look kinda neutral, but under tungstan the warmth emerges and gets exaggerated. In mixed light there is a rich blending. The trick is to make a print that looks great in all three lighting conditions. Of course I tend to favor daylight.

In use the basic settings in Print Tool (Mac) pretty much once set will work on all my Canson papers with minor tweaking. This is the blending of 3 curves (cool, neutral, and warm) but some prints rich in shadows detail with PP I can easily tone down the warmth in Print Tool so that under incandescent light the warmth is not overdone. Pretty much this is reducing brown in the shadows.

So why the bother, and why would one use splitone? When done right a lot more detail gets teased out of a print. I'm talking very fine detail here. Another reason is for emphisis as well as nuance. Also know that a print seems to jump off the page more and appears to be more 3-D.

So I have 4-5 sheets of 17x22 Baryta Photographic left, and I have 5 prints that I think have been optimized. Another trip to B&H later this week, but this time I will bulk up a bit on the paper.

At the NYC Meet-Up one response was "Why would someone want to wet print anymore?"

Another response was "All the prints look good, and the minor differences is just being obsessive." I brought a selection to show and compare. There was K7 verses PP, and different papers.

Anyways not all my prints I would consider finished, the changes are subtle, but for some the best print is yet to come.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-18-2017   #73
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
So I'm running with the ball now. Last night made three prints of three different images I have printed before, and I made each one the best print I ever made of the image.

I was able to dial in the splitone for not only creative effect, but also to enhance the image. In one shot that is near the Highline near dusk I utilized the warmth to enhance and express the low west coming light to great effect.

In another shot the darkened interior displays warmth that frames a man's face that bathes in late afternoon outdoor light as he peers into the street so the mixed lighting is captured and optimized for both the interior and exterior.

Then there is this other mixed lighting shot from inside the AOL Time Warner skyscraper atrium looking out to Columbus Circle and Central Park South. I somehow captured polarized lighting and was able to mirror image the outside view of Columbus Circle that is bookmatched to a large expanse of glass windows. The effect is that cabs look like they are heading towards each other in Columbus Circle. Anyways the difference in contrast and exposure due to losses in the reflected image verses the direct image is worked out in a gentile subtle difference in the tonal rendering via the splitone.

Anyways three mucho great prints. I only have 2 sheets left of last week's pack of 25 17x22's, so today after work is yet another B&H run for paper. I should be able to bulk up on some paper at this point. I have a contact with the biggest Canson dealer in N.J. PM me if you want in.

So I am very pleased with my 3880 using the Faberryman Workaround. Seems ideal for making pages that will be assembled into a workbook to document my images and settings. The print quality and IQ is supreme.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

A quick report comparing Canson Baryta Photographique and Canson Baryta Prestige.
Old 01-18-2017   #74
jscottyk
Registered User
 
jscottyk is offline
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1
A quick report comparing Canson Baryta Photographique and Canson Baryta Prestige.

Hello All,
Long time lurker, first time poster here at rangefinderforum. Cal mentioned a review of two Canson papers that I posted over at the PiezographyPro forum. I thought it might be helpful here, so I am cross-posting.

Here goes.

A quick report comparing Canson Baryta Photographique and Canson Baryta Prestige.

Here’s what we know about the Baryta Photographique from the Canson website; “very low” OBA, alpha cellulose, 310 gsm.

And the Baryta Prestige from the Canson website; “very low” OBA, alpha cellulose and cotton, 340gsm.

Both papers were re-linearized on my 3880 starting with the Baryta Photographique curve and a 129-step target with an i1 Pro and Colorport.
The following measurements were made with the i1 Pro and QuickRead.

Baryta Photographique
DMax – 2.38
DMin – V.04, C.04, M.05, Y.05

Baryta Prestige
DMax – 2.47
DMin – V.04, C.04, M.04, Y.05

Now for the subject stuff. To my eye, both papers are very very similar. The two main apparent differences are the paper white and surface texture. For me the Baryta Photographique feels a bit more textured than the Baryta Prestige. I realize this is the opposite of what Cal experienced but this is probably just our subjective perceptions. Neither is heavy textured. The Prestige just looks a bit smoother.

The Baryta Photographique also feels a tiny bit warmer in the paper white. I think the measurements confirm this with the DMin numbers. Visually, I don’t notice the difference in DMax when looking at the same image printed on both papers. When I place the two calibration targets side by side, I notice the difference. Regardless, 2.38 is amazing and with that level of black I would not let DMax be a deciding factor when trying to decide between which to use for a print.

Finally, a third difference I noticed by feel. The alpha cellulose and cotton mix of Baryta Prestige is a bit stiffer in the hand and also feels different on the back of the print. I’m a paper-nut and I notice this stuff when handling fine prints. I’m not sure which I like better at the moment; just noticed the difference.


J. Scott King
Austin, Texas
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-18-2017   #75
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Scott,

Thanks for sharing this.

I can't wait till the Canson Prestige becomes readily available. I think of Prestige like being like the Baryta Photographique, but on steroids due to the blacker black and the apparent whiter white.

Also I forgot to mention that Robert Rodriguez stated to me that the gain of the Prestige is such that it has a low memory for the curling that happens with roll paper. Should be really great for large prints.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2017   #76
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
So I feel like a crack head. I had to go home to get a credit card because I had paid down my bills aggressively, and in my bank I did not have funds/cash for a paper fix.

At home I grabbed 9 prints I now considered fully baked and finished, and got a free transfer on the subway after taking the bus home. I save $2.75 by being clever.

So I create another flash mob in the used gear department. Chris says I blew him away with these prints, and he strongly remembers from a week earlier the test prints. Brent sniffs the paper saying my prints even smell like wet prints, and other comments strongly suggest that all my decades of shooting film comes out and is expressed in these digital prints shot with a digital camera. To me this was the most flattering of remarks.

I am deeply influenced by a MOMA show I saw in the late 70's of celebrities shot by Richard Avedon with an 8x10 and printed life size. Of course the prints were spectacular and perfect in every way. One image that stood out as being iconic/memorable was the portrait of Andy Warhol lifting his shirt to expose all the bullet scars when "Viva," one on his groupies, caught him in an elevator and emptied a 38 into him.

Another large format shooter that deeply influenced me is Bernice Abbott. At the hospital where I work is a display/folio of her work that depicts "A Changing New York." The paper used appears to be dry mounted and single weight, and I suspect that the paper is Kodak AZO, a silver cloride paper that is favored by large format shooters for its detail and extra long tonal scale.

So for many years I shot mucho film in small and medium format trying to emulate these large format shooters. I figured out how to remake Diafine and exploit its compensating effect to get a HDR like effect of long tonal range and fine detail in small and medium format film. I have posted here on RFF my "Slacker's Brew." My friend Christian, a large format shooter, looked at some of my 6x9 negatives on my light table and said, "With negatives like these you don't need a 4x5."

So it seems all this analog work has paid huge dividends in my digital printing. Seamlessly it seems I have an analog look without trying, but my choice of paper (always Baryta coated) printing glossy, and enjoying smooth papers to promote fine detail all add voice to the print.

So my friend Gil in the paper department at B&H tells me I am buying the last three packs of 17x22 Canson Baryta they have in the store, and that only 10 packs are in the warehouse in Brooklyn. So far my paper bill for January is more than $500.00, and this was money I wasn't planning to spend... Perhaps I can at least get through January and perhaps the first week in February without having to reload.

When I showed Gil my 9 finished prints he said they were the best prints he has seen in 11 years come his way in the store. Gil went on to mention other photographers, some from Magnum, and I am too embarrassed to repeat any more of the flattering remarks.

Anyways I feel really great about my work and I am mighty proud, but realize humbly it has been a lifetime of struggle to get to this point. Anyways the prints speak for themselves. Don't discount all those decades of shooting film.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2017   #77
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is online now
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NYC
Age: 43
Posts: 17,802
It's like reading a diary in here Cal.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2017   #78
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
It's like reading a diary in here Cal.
John,

It clearly displays a rather unstable obsessive character.

You are a moderator: Why so many views and lurkers? Are people scared of me? LOL.

Anyways somehow I have embedded a blog within RFF.

BTW the prints I made after Sunday's NYC Meet-Up are so much better than the one's you saw. There is a striking difference. That early work was testing the system and experimenting. Too bad it cost over $200.00 in paper.

Over 4K views. LOL. I think I won the lurking award. LOL. So few posts and so many views. Does RFF do analytics?

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2017   #79
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is online now
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NYC
Age: 43
Posts: 17,802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone View Post
You are a moderator: Why so many views and lurkers? Are people scared of me? LOL.
No, I think many of us aren't interested in Piezography but find you entertaining.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2017   #80
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
 
Calzone's Avatar
 
Calzone is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hell Gate, Madhattan
Age: 59
Posts: 7,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
No, I think many of us aren't interested in Piezography but find you entertaining.
John,

Character and strange behavior are part of my "branding."

Never realized I had so many followers. LOL.

Anyways everyone should know by now that I am a lazy slacker, and one of the reasons I do all this writing is to stay awake at work. Never before has a man been paid so much to do so little.

Perhaps the ideal day-job...

Another Calzone quote: "If we knew what we were doing, we wouldn't be called research." LOL.

Cal
__________________
"Vintage Hipster"
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:56.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.