Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Rangefinder Forum > Image Processing: Darkroom / Lightroom / Film > Scanners / Scanner Software

View Poll Results: How much is this scanner worth to you? (USD)
$600 or less 40 25.64%
$800 30 19.23%
$1000 34 21.79%
$1500 26 16.67%
$2000 16 10.26%
$3000 or more 10 6.41%
Voters: 156. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Old 12-04-2016   #201
Chromacomaphoto
Registered User
 
Chromacomaphoto is offline
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 282
Just read this over, the whole thread from start to finish = mind blown!

Seriously well done.
__________________
http://www.chromacomaphoto.com
Photos of Thailand and Thai people. Bangkok street and candids, urban landscapes, and lots of film work plus a blog on all of this.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2016   #202
pyeh
Registered User
 
pyeh is offline
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Taylor Square
Age: 56
Posts: 247
John is not overstating the potential of quejai's scanner concept. It really has the capability for incredible resolution and versatility. It was a real honour to witness quejai and Caleb's presentation. We are very fortunate to have such inventive and generous people amongst us.
__________________
Peter
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2016   #203
Penzes
Registered User
 
Penzes is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Age: 44
Posts: 422
Nice, good luck with the conceptual challenges and realization! I'm interested, so will follow this further.
__________________
regards, István

my flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-05-2016   #204
Tijmendal
Young photog
 
Tijmendal is offline
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Age: 26
Posts: 489
Great to hear you guys chime in. I've been following this from the beginning and can't wait till I can get my hands on mine.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-09-2016   #205
Fernando2
Registered User
 
Fernando2's Avatar
 
Fernando2 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Rome, Italy
Age: 48
Posts: 261
Amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep on the wonderful work guys!!!! Thanks for sharing!!
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-10-2016   #206
Prest_400
Multiformat
 
Prest_400's Avatar
 
Prest_400 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Spain
Posts: 415
No comment. – I have followed the thread since you first posted, and been aware of the updates. Like a child who is amazed and doesn't know what to say anyways.
Really looking forward to how it is evolving, excited to see such development around scanning, which has been stagnant and in need of propulsion towards a more 21st century approach.

Much support quejai!
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2016   #207
jzagaja
My website www.horns.pl
 
jzagaja is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 260
Next step would be design new electronics/soft, laser light, PMT modules for Scanmate drum scanners
__________________
Jack

www.horns.pl
www.horns-diy.pl
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2016   #208
quejai
Registered User
 
quejai is offline
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 91
thanks all! Just remember that although much of the hardware is done, there are several things still yet to finish. Electronics, software (just linear raw scans for now), film holders (there will be several types), and the enclosure to isolate dust and noise (currently thinking about a dark transparent material). Each of these is getting a fair bit of attention from Caleb and I, although we've realised that we still need to order in a few more parts.

So unless it is (literally) bolted down, the design is still being worked on and improved. We are finishing up though - and once this is done, then yes jzagaja, I'll give that a go.

Last night I was messing around with how to implement the source and take-up spools for scanning uncut rolls of 135 and 120, I'm quite happy with what I ended up with.

Also, I've talked to some people on RFF and against my expectations, they said that they think more people would prefer to buy an assembled scanner than build one themselves.

Be aware that regardless of which option you choose, it will always be in your interest to be well read on the design, when those details are published. Personally I think the design is thoroughly simple, moreso than a typical camera, even though it might look like something out of a terminator movie. It all comes from how familiar you are with the workings.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2016   #209
Prest_400
Multiformat
 
Prest_400's Avatar
 
Prest_400 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Spain
Posts: 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by quejai View Post
Also, I've talked to some people on RFF and against my expectations, they said that they think more people would prefer to buy an assembled scanner than build one themselves.

Be aware that regardless of which option you choose, it will always be in your interest to be well read on the design, when those details are published. Personally I think the design is thoroughly simple, moreso than a typical camera, even though it might look like something out of a terminator movie. It all comes from how familiar you are with the workings.
The stage of simply having linear RAW cound be supplemented by outsourced plugins. One of the workflows I read around for these is using PS and Colorperfect. For the particular case of Color Negs, legacy software (Kodak, Fuji, Noritsu) seems to have a good hand on getting things right. Probably just due manufacturer's effort at the time when creating the software and profiling...I've often wondered how those could be ported/reverse engineered/based on (IP issues perhaps though).

Perhaps a semi-assembled kit with the essential/most critical parts already put together would be an interesting option. After taking a second look at the hardware I have to agree that the structure looks quite simple.
I may have the heart to try building it, and I bet it would be a fun affair including some frustrating moments.

I ran out of much comments to add really, rereading some of the progress shown in the thread and John's impressions of the prototype. Versatility, Quality and Simplicity seem nice strengths. Thanks for the update!

PS: Not being from a STEM background kind of frustrates me here, because I'd even join core development if I had tech skills.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2016   #210
jzagaja
My website www.horns.pl
 
jzagaja is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 260
Don't forget about film gate for 8/16mm film. There will be growing market for cine film. Scanner must at least compete with Shadow telecine. Software must registrate frames by perforations.
__________________
Jack

www.horns.pl
www.horns-diy.pl
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-12-2016   #211
Jockos
Registered User
 
Jockos's Avatar
 
Jockos is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Sweden
Age: 29
Posts: 869
Do you have any idea of when we'll be able to buy the first scanners/kits?

Hoping for Q1, and wouldn't mind being on a beta team!
__________________
Don't trust anything I say or write before I get my morning coffee, at least I don't.

Da gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-12-2016   #212
quejai
Registered User
 
quejai is offline
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post
Don't forget about film gate for 8/16mm film. There will be growing market for cine film. Scanner must at least compete with Shadow telecine. Software must registrate frames by perforations.
Won't forget about it, still anticipate designing those gates but haven't started yet tbh. Should be pretty similar to the other holders.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockos View Post
Do you have any idea of when we'll be able to buy the first scanners/kits?

Hoping for Q1, and wouldn't mind being on a beta team!
We are also hoping for Q1, and thanks! We've also been thinking about a beta release. Haven't worked out many details for that yet though.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-13-2016   #213
pembrokehouse
Fast-flying cameraman
 
pembrokehouse's Avatar
 
pembrokehouse is offline
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Brooklyn
Age: 28
Posts: 1
hello quejai,

i joined rff a few weeks ago to help with an issue i've been facing for a number of years - scanning the 35mm photos (i use my family's leica m4) i've taken from my times as flying (i work in brooklyn for a private airline company and regularly bring my leica up with me). i've always been unhappy with the results of scanning my images a few weeks ago i realised a number of images have started to really fall in quality. so i came to the rff (a passenger told me about the rff - he had a widelux!) to find a solution- and alas!!!

i'm really excited with this project but i have one concern & its how long will it take you to build these? when can i purchase the kits & will they be offered first??? on what jockos said - wouldn't mind also being on the beta team!!!

__________________
Been flying for decades.
Wouldn't change a thing.
But just the lens.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-13-2016   #214
luuca
Registered User
 
luuca's Avatar
 
luuca is offline
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: italy
Age: 41
Posts: 452
hi quejai,
I'm very interested in your project, I hope there will be the chance to buy a kit in Italy too.
__________________
.
.
http://alliluca.wordpress.com
.
.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #215
Fernando2
Registered User
 
Fernando2's Avatar
 
Fernando2 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Rome, Italy
Age: 48
Posts: 261
What Luuca said!! :-)
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #216
Prest_400
Multiformat
 
Prest_400's Avatar
 
Prest_400 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Spain
Posts: 415
Piano adagio!

The last couple of posts by Italian forumers remind me of the Ferrania approach and how this project matches it for its focus on "future" and sustainability; Modularity/adaptability and smaller scale with a focus on quality. It's great that you took an idea and optimised it for film scanning.

We're excited to hear more of course. Still, quejai, don't feel pressured.
  Reply With Quote

Designing a new film scanner; need your help
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #217
JChrome
Street Worker
 
JChrome's Avatar
 
JChrome is offline
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 773
Designing a new film scanner; need your help

Love all of the positivity of this thread and the DIY spirit.

Quejai, excellent work! I just wanted to mention, if you haven't heard of Hackaday, it's a great site that I think you'd be interested in. Lots of folks hacking electronics and building projects like these on it.

Anyway, they have a great write up about structural framing systems (like the kind you are using).

http://hackaday.com/2016/12/14/a-how...uded-profiles/

Oh, and this could be of interest as well:
http://hackaday.com/2016/12/15/high-quality-film-transfers-with-this-raspberry-pi-frame-grabber/

They are scanning images at different exposures and combining them using OpenCV.

Keep up the great work!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
www.stillthrill.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #218
jzagaja
My website www.horns.pl
 
jzagaja is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 260
Scanning a film roll like telecine machines or Imacon is best approach. Use ClingZ foil to attract dust with electrostatic force or ultrasonic rolls. When I was developing 16mm film in WFDiF Warsaw it came out very clean after ultrasonic cleaner. Projectors tend to scratch delicate Kodak Vision negatives.
__________________
Jack

www.horns.pl
www.horns-diy.pl
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #219
quejai
Registered User
 
quejai is offline
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 91
Caleb and I are currently putting a fair bit of work on the motors, and how to make them fast and quiet, as recent experiments have shown the current speed and sound as undesirable. A new job has slowed down my progress a bit, but of course it is still being worked on - it's also funding some more items, such as a new microscope lens that could increase the maximum scanning speed by 2.5x.





Quote:
Originally Posted by pembrokehouse View Post
hello quejai,

i joined rff a few weeks ago to help with an issue i've been facing for a number of years - scanning the 35mm photos (i use my family's leica m4) i've taken from my times as flying (i work in brooklyn for a private airline company and regularly bring my leica up with me). i've always been unhappy with the results of scanning my images a few weeks ago i realised a number of images have started to really fall in quality. so i came to the rff (a passenger told me about the rff - he had a widelux!) to find a solution- and alas!!!

i'm really excited with this project but i have one concern & its how long will it take you to build these? when can i purchase the kits & will they be offered first??? on what jockos said - wouldn't mind also being on the beta team!!!

Hola! Well hopefully this will be the machine you're looking for. Regarding manufacturing rates, we're thinking that we could each manufacture at least one per week, perhaps even up to 3 or 4 per week. Any faster than that would be too expensive to pull off. When they become available to buy, to avoid the who-gets-theirs-first chaos I'm imagining that we'd specify a time period in which people can buy a scanner from the first beta batch (a couple of weeks?), and then after that time period closes, we'll randomly work the order out, and open up orders for the next non-beta batch.



Quote:
Originally Posted by luuca View Post
hi quejai,
I'm very interested in your project, I hope there will be the chance to buy a kit in Italy too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando2 View Post
What Luuca said!! :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prest_400 View Post
Piano adagio!

The last couple of posts by Italian forumers remind me of the Ferrania approach and how this project matches it for its focus on "future" and sustainability; Modularity/adaptability and smaller scale with a focus on quality. It's great that you took an idea and optimised it for film scanning.

We're excited to hear more of course. Still, quejai, don't feel pressured.
Of course, we'll be happy to ship some to Italy. Postage might be a bit steep though...
Prest 400: The main motivation for working on the current scanner is how much other ones sucked, and it just so happens that modularity / the ability to be updated over time was a side effect of it. Hopefully it does work out, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JChrome View Post
Love all of the positivity of this thread and the DIY spirit.

Quejai, excellent work! I just wanted to mention, if you haven't heard of Hackaday, it's a great site that I think you'd be interested in. Lots of folks hacking electronics and building projects like these on it.

Anyway, they have a great write up about structural framing systems (like the kind you are using).

http://hackaday.com/2016/12/14/a-how...uded-profiles/

Oh, and this could be of interest as well:
http://hackaday.com/2016/12/15/high-...frame-grabber/

They are scanning images at different exposures and combining them using OpenCV.

Keep up the great work!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Super cool links, I know the site but those articles are new to me. I'm going to try the first link's suggestions! We were considering using a rapsberry pi camera a long time ago, but for some reason (can't remember which now) we decided to move onto something else. I have used the pi and pi camera before, and their approach is interesting in its elegance - just sub in the pi in place of the film.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post
Scanning a film roll like telecine machines or Imacon is best approach. Use ClingZ foil to attract dust with electrostatic force or ultrasonic rolls. When I was developing 16mm film in WFDiF Warsaw it came out very clean after ultrasonic cleaner. Projectors tend to scratch delicate Kodak Vision negatives.
That's pretty much what we're doing already - and this ClingZ foil sounds awesome! do you have any links for its use in telecine machines?
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #220
jzagaja
My website www.horns.pl
 
jzagaja is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 260
Got ClingZ samples will chcek usability. I'm planing use it for electrostatic speaker.
__________________
Jack

www.horns.pl
www.horns-diy.pl
  Reply With Quote

Old 2 Weeks Ago   #221
jzagaja
My website www.horns.pl
 
jzagaja is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 260
Similar comercial scanner?

http://www.hamamatsu.com/jp/en/C12000.html
__________________
Jack

www.horns.pl
www.horns-diy.pl
  Reply With Quote

Old 2 Weeks Ago   #222
quejai
Registered User
 
quejai is offline
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzagaja View Post
Interesting, it is similar. I was actually reading about an identical machine from another company yesterday. Seems overly complicated though.

So the 10x objective arrived, I did some tests, and it looks promising for that 2.5x speed boost by lowering the lower end of the resolution range. So with two 4x and one 10x and 20x objectives, we can modify the native resolution of the current sensor to between 2,600 - 33,000 ppi by changing which two objectives are in use.

Also did some proof-of-concept experiments for Caleb's idea for the gripper for a film loader that would allow pakon-like operation, and the idea is sound. There isnt too much more work to do before the dry loading holder should be ready.

I also played with the super bright backlight LEDs we have, and worked out a much better configuration if different LEDs are used. I'll send an order through for some tomorow. This will allow a more modular construction, ease of swapping out the LED module for, say, LEDs optimised for monochrome, and more even illumination.

So... getting there.
  Reply With Quote

Old 2 Weeks Ago   #223
Evanjoe610
Registered User
 
Evanjoe610 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 97
Sorry, I'm a late comer to this Scanner project. Read the entire thread and find it quite promising.

I would like to join in the final production when it comes to fruition.

I'm a former drum scanner and X-Y flatbed prepress scanner user.

At home I have an X-Y flatbed prepress scanner, Scitex Eversmart Pro II and the Imacon Flextight Precision III.

Both has performed excellent work for me based on the tight space I have allocated it to . The weight of the Scitex Eversmart Pro II is HEAVY...

Keep up the good job and progress.
An open source product that IS not proprietary is best for this community.


Evan
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #224
rfaspen
Registered User
 
rfaspen's Avatar
 
rfaspen is offline
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 866
I'm excited about this!!!

I like the idea of a 3-tiered offering and pricing:
1. Fully assembled scanner $$$
2. Partially assembled scanner $$
3. Box of parts $
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #225
CliveC
Registered User
 
CliveC is offline
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
Posts: 651
To be honest, I didn't initially think that this project would succeed. I am glad to be proven wrong! Any chance we can get a short video seeing this thing in action?
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #226
Archlich
Registered User
 
Archlich is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 667
I'm ready to spend $$$$ on this. Existing medium format scanners are that expensive anyway!
  Reply With Quote

Old 1 Week Ago   #227
struene
Registered User
 
struene is offline
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 63
I follow the thread from the first starting and i am very excited. Just dont forget the most important thing:

there are plenty of more or less nice but useable scanners out there, you address most of their shortcomings. Just dont forget the strongest: its the software! A reliable and constant workflow in my view can only be achieved with the approach of exact densitometric calibration of the scanner and according paperlike gradation-curves. With a change of the light emmision after prescan, not by moving around endpoints of RGB-curves... Thats, as i understand the way noritsu/pakon/Fujitsu goes and they shine in that. Of couse the hardest thing stays still the white ballance for colour negative....

thanks for your efforts!!
schöne Grüße,
Johann
__________________
28 35 50
flickr
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:12.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.