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1938 Coated Contax Tessar 2.8/50 Real or Fake
Old 12-12-2016   #1
newst
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1938 Coated Contax Tessar 2.8/50 Real or Fake

As listed on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Collectible-...cAAOSw4GVYNjhx

Personally I don't like how that red T got squeezed into the nameplate. I'm no expert but I am not buying. Pre-war Zeiss calligraphy is better than that.

But< I could be wrong. Are there any other opinions out there?
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Old 12-12-2016   #2
sevo
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The lens itself must be original - no cheaper source for a Contax mount Tessar around, so there is no base to build a fake on. The coating and engraving might not be, though - it certainly is not the engraving I'd expect on a lens originally sold as T-coated. Which makes it a after-market upgrade - could be a original Zeiss one. I'd have expected a new nameplate with that, but in the war and post war years they might have saved on that and cut the T into the existing one. Many third parties offered coating services as well - these would not legitimately have engraved a T, but it might be a original period fake, stuff like that was not uncommon in the early fifties, when there was a considerable price jump between old Contax gear and the new West German cameras and lenses.
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Old 12-12-2016   #3
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Thank you Sevo. I didn't even think that it might have been coated after production. Certainly a viable possibility.
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Old 12-12-2016   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newst View Post
As listed on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Collectible-...cAAOSw4GVYNjhx

Personally I don't like how that red T got squeezed into the nameplate. I'm no expert but I am not buying. Pre-war Zeiss calligraphy is better than that.

But< I could be wrong. Are there any other opinions out there?
Contact Carl Zeiss directly, they usually provide detailed information very quick.
But Zeiss pre-war coating usually didn't labeled by red "T" (in this case 1937-38 too early for "T", when Zeiss patent was published in 1939).

What is a Red "T" Coating? http://www.zeisscamera.com/services_...a-lenses.shtml
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Old 12-13-2016   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deklari View Post
Contact Carl Zeiss directly, they usually provide detailed information very quick.
So far I've never managed to get any relevant historical information out of Zeiss themselves, except for bits that pertain to Opton/Oberkochen. They managed to lose what was left of their Jena archive and museum over post-reunification squabbles, and anything Zeiss Ikon went other ways or was destroyed as well...

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Originally Posted by Deklari View Post
But Zeiss pre-war coating usually didn't labeled by red "T" (in this case 1937-38 too early for "T", when Zeiss patent was published in 1939).
The patent was registered in Germany in 1935, the first coated lenses were demonstrated at the 1936 Olympic Games - Zeiss obviously geared up for marketing them in 1936, but somehow did not make it. Just why is hard to tell now, with most documents lost and a long history of blaming everything on the Nazis - personally I guess that it was a matter of technical feasibility and bringing it from lab scale to industrial dimensions rather than politics (with the patent, the cat was already out of the bag, so there would not have been any point in holding back mass marketing from that point on). That said, it might be that the Tessar may only have been available in coated in 1939 (when coating became optionally available for most lenses in their catalogue) - but not because coating was not invented or patented earlier. And the lens in question obviously was not sold originally coated in any case.

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Originally Posted by Deklari View Post
That, by the way, is NOT Zeiss, nor anybody affiliated with them, but Henry Scherer, a independent, strongly opinionated (and often plain wrong regarding facts) Contax rangefinder repairman in the US.
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Old 12-13-2016   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
So far I've never managed to get any relevant historical information out of Zeiss themselves, except for bits that pertain to Opton/Oberkochen. They managed to lose what was left of their Jena archive and museum over post-reunification squabbles, and anything Zeiss Ikon went other ways or was destroyed as well...



The patent was registered in Germany in 1935, the first coated lenses were demonstrated at the 1936 Olympic Games - Zeiss obviously geared up for marketing them in 1936, but somehow did not make it. Just why is hard to tell now, with most documents lost and a long history of blaming everything on the Nazis - personally I guess that it was a matter of technical feasibility and bringing it from lab scale to industrial dimensions rather than politics (with the patent, the cat was already out of the bag, so there would not have been any point in holding back mass marketing from that point on). That said, it might be that the Tessar may only have been available in coated in 1939 (when coating became optionally available for most lenses in their catalogue) - but not because coating was not invented or patented earlier. And the lens in question obviously was not sold originally coated in any case.



That, by the way, is NOT Zeiss, nor anybody affiliated with them, but Henry Scherer, a independent, strongly opinionated (and often plain wrong regarding facts) Contax rangefinder repairman in the US.
Maybe I lucky with my Tessar historical lens. I got all information from them. Not just when it make but also which surface is coated and there/when they ship this lenses before WWII. I not expert in history of Zeiss lens, but base on Zeiss information and any other available in internet, this will be a first know pre-war coated lens with "T".
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Old 12-13-2016   #7
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this it pre-war coated lens from January 1939 (patent was published in December, 1939) ..
no "T".. and all text distributed equally
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Old 12-13-2016   #8
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Originally Posted by Deklari View Post
Maybe I lucky with my Tessar historical lens. I got all information from them.
From WHOM? Zeiss Oberkochen?
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Old 12-13-2016   #9
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Originally Posted by Deklari View Post
this it pre-war coated lens from January 1939 (patent was published in December, 1939) ..
no "T".. and all text distributed equally
... and presumably a (original Zeiss Jena) after-market coating - these red dot marks are generally assumed to be from the immediate after-war years only.
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Old 12-13-2016   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
... and presumably a (original Zeiss Jena) after-market coating - these red dot marks are generally assumed to be from the immediate after-war years only.
From Carl Zeiss .. They conferm what this lens pre war coated and labaled

yes from Zeiss Oberkochen
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Old 12-13-2016   #11
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Below e-mail from Zeiss Oberkochen:

" ....Here is the answer from our expert of vintage Zeiss Ikon equipment:
Those lens with the serial number 2422436 was delivered to ENSIGN in the UK in January, 1939. The patent for the T coating was just published end of 1939, so the lenses delivered before were marked with a red dot for the new T coating (only on internal surfaces)."

I also have a Sonnar with "T" from 1941.. Looks like "red dot" is a early "T" on coated lens..
If you have more accurate information, Please share, I will be very appreciate, Thanks
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Old 12-13-2016   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deklari View Post
Below e-mail from Zeiss Oberkochen:

" ....Here is the answer from our expert of vintage Zeiss Ikon equipment:
Those lens with the serial number 2422436 was delivered to ENSIGN in the UK in January, 1939. The patent for the T coating was just published end of 1939, so the lenses delivered before were marked with a red dot for the new T coating (only on internal surfaces)."
"Only on internal surfaces"? Now that is interesting, in that it is evident that your lens is coated on the front face. Does that mean that they started the red dot branding as they extended coatings to all surfaces? Or that that patent was for internal surface coated lenses?
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Old 12-13-2016   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
"Only on internal surfaces"? Now that is interesting, in that it is evident that your lens is coated on the front face. Does that mean that they started the red dot branding as they extended coatings to all surfaces? Or that that patent was for internal surface coated lenses?
No idea.. I not claiming it fully coated, I just also try to discovery a little history here.. My understanding, they didn't coated front surface. I think patent is about general coating or not?
Also why they ship them to UK?
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Old 12-13-2016   #14
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Now comeback to original question. If this Tessar (on e-bay) post-war coated
it is better (on my opinion). Because coating technology become better after WWII. It probably give a better contrast picture. Or I miss something?
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Old 12-13-2016   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deklari View Post
No idea.. I not claiming it fully coated, I just also try to discovery a little history here.. My understanding, they didn't coated front surface. I think patent is about general coating or not?
Also why they ship them to UK?
Might be that they only got the UK patent by that time, so they could start exporting - the war did not start until September that year. Or it was a patent for internal-surface coating (the general German patent for vacuum coating had already been granted in 1935).
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Old 12-13-2016   #16
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Now comeback to original question. If this Tessar (on e-bay) post-war coated
it is better (on my opinion). Because coating technology become better after WWII. It probably give a better contrast picture. Or I miss something?
Probably not much difference there - the Zeiss coatings were pretty good and consistent right from the start. And they did not begin the first attempts at multi-layer coating (then only two or three layer) until the mid to late fifties, when the era of after-market coating was already over, so these lenses will never have received anything superior to the original coatings.
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Old 12-13-2016   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
Probably not much difference there - the Zeiss coatings were pretty good and consistent right from the start. And they did not begin the first attempts at multi-layer coating (then only two or three layer) until the mid to late fifties, when the era of after-market coating was already over, so these lenses will never have received anything superior to the original coatings.
Generally speaking, no seance to pay extra just for single coating
Personally for this age B&W is only option. Color it just for fun.
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