M8.2 to M9
Old 11-02-2016   #1
Smitty
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M8.2 to M9

Has anyone moved from a M8.2 to M9? Just wondering if you would see a significant difference other than elimination of the cut filters and crop factor of the M8?

Thanks, Steve
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Old 11-02-2016   #2
jsrockit
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It feels like a more mature camera as well... less clunky.
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Old 11-02-2016   #3
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And larger native print sizes. It has been a long while since I've opened an M8.2 file, so can't speak to differences in color or processing. I've gotten very used to the M9 files and find the color generally excellent, tho green can sometimes be a touch finicky to set well, something I don't recall so much with the M8.
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Old 11-02-2016   #4
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Might the M8 be better for black and white? The use of IR cut filters was necessary for accurate colors (esp. black), but the absence helped those interested in monochrome..... (ps I don't own an M9, but used an M8)
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Old 11-02-2016   #5
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Bigger files and higher usable ISO are nice, and the colours are a tad more accurate. I do miss the top display quite a bit, though. The main display is still just as awful, as are the file write times.
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Old 11-02-2016   #6
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both can start showing the age. M8 with coffee stain LCD and M9 with sensor "corrosion" (guess that was the word).
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Old 11-02-2016   #7
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I had the M8.2 LCD replaced by Leica (which I understand have since become unavailable). So far it seems to be doing just fine.
Am in the process of a M9 purchase..Seems as though most all have had a sensor replacement and looks as though the same sensor is used i newer models?
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Old 11-02-2016   #8
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Smitty -- good luck with the M9 purchase. What is the current range of prices you have seen? Are there good deals to be had?
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Old 11-02-2016   #9
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From what I have seen $2500-ish to high 3k's depending on condition. Seems that most all have had sensors replaced. Not exactly sure what impact actuation's actually have or if it is because it is now possible to record them.
I should think that if Leica has replace the sensor they would also have gone completely thorough the entire camera. In the case of my M3's 4's and others the camera will pretty much go on and on.
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Old 11-02-2016   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
It feels like a more mature camera as well... less clunky.
Can you give an example? The cameras are basically the same.
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Old 11-02-2016   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marko.oja View Post
..I do miss the top display quite a bit, though...
I really did miss it at first, but had forgotten about it till you mentioned it. I do like the info button, getting battery life at the same time, but yeah, that little screen was really nice.
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Old 11-02-2016   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lss View Post
Can you give an example? The cameras are basically the same.
Shutter is certainly better feeling on the M9 than the M8 (i.e. less clunky). The M8 had shutter issues enough that Leica replaced two of them on two different M8s for free for me. I've never heard of anyone complaining of this on the M9. The M9 felt faster to me. The M9 handled batteries better than the M8 (less freeze ups). The framelines on the M9 are classic M frameline FOVs. Better ISO control (i.e. in-bewteen ISOs). Built in Lens Codes. I can't see how someone would think the M8 and the M9 are exactly the same. Maybe the M8.2 is closer.
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I have both
Old 11-02-2016   #13
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I have both

I originally bought an M8 and sold it when I got the M9. Big difference in ISO, and full format. Less noise. However, when I sent my M9 for sensor replacement (4 month) I purchased an M8.u, which I love. I got my M9 back but I cannot see myself getting rid of the M8.u. I use the M8.u for black and white without UV/IR filter, and for outdoor portraits with 85mm and 90mm, and 135mm lenses. I just love both.
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Old 11-02-2016   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I can't see how someone would think the M8 and the M9 are exactly the same. Maybe the M8.2 is closer.
Obviously the cameras are not exactly the same. The biggest difference is the sensor, as explained in the OP. My question was about the clunkiness, as the cameras appear the same to me in this respect. The topic is about M8.2 to M9.

On the outside, the big differences between these cameras are the loss of the useful top display and addition of the useful ISO button. The M8.2 has the sapphire display, which the regular M9 lacks, but this is not a huge usability issue.

I have had an M8.2 spec M8 for years, and it has never had a freeze up. The shutter feel is the same as the M9 (it may be the same shutter), and the write times are slightly faster due to smaller files. The M9 does have a more mature interface and software in terms of providing an actual ISO control and the manual lens selection. In terms of feel, there is basically no difference. The cameras are basically the same.
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Old 11-02-2016   #15
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Well, I have an M8 and an M9, and had an M8.2 on long loan from Leica, and my view of the differences (at some length) is here. On the same site there are also reviews of the M8.2 and M8.

Cheers,

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Old 11-02-2016   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lss View Post
The topic is about M8.2 to M9.
Ok, that's where I made the mistake. The M8.2 is clearly better than the M8 IMO. I've used all three.
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Old 11-02-2016   #17
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I had an M8.2 and felt I was constantly running into a wall with useability. Night shots are nearly impossible without a tripod. The M9, while still having limits is a more useable camera in my hands. Either, when used within their limits, offer exceptional image quality. I never found the crop factor to be an issue. It isn't enough to be a factor in my mind.
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Old 11-02-2016   #18
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Had a M8u briefly and a M9P now. M8u felt more like an analog in regards to its limitations (mainly ISO). I love M9's higher usable ISO, viewfinder, and full-frame crop.
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Love my M8.2 and my M9 equally
Old 11-02-2016   #19
pepeguitarra
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Love my M8.2 and my M9 equally

Correct, the crop factor is not a factor!
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Old 11-02-2016   #20
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Do not have either of these cameras. I can see that if someone has already and it works , no major reason to dump. I have wanted one for my M lens collection. However, it seems that so much better to have live view, which I believe neither has. I am concerned that the M8.2 despite some improvements over the M8, (although lost the high speed shutter), is just not something I see Leica reliably supporting.

For the money.....Fuji. Just one man's opinion....sure to see blowback.
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Old 11-02-2016   #21
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Quote:
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Correct, the crop factor is not a factor!
It is for me. I was considering buying a 24/1.4 when the M9 came out and my 35/1.4 once again gave me the same field of view as it had on film instead of pretending to be a 48mm standard lens. I was also please to have my wides and ultrawides back, with (for example) 21mm as 21mm instead of 28mm.

Cheers,

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Old 11-02-2016   #22
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Roger,
Thanks for these very useful links. Do you still use both your M8 and M9? In about the same measure? -- martin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Well, I have an M8 and an M9, and had an M8.2 on long loan from Leica, and my view of the differences (at some length) is here. On the same site there are also reviews of the M8.2 and M8.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 11-08-2016   #23
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The M8.2 has been a fine camera for me with my only real complaint being the crop factor in using some of my favorite lenses. When using the M9 for the first time it was refreshing to have the correct perspective and coverage of my lenses, 35 fills the frame nicely and 50 does fine as well.
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Old 11-08-2016   #24
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I have been heavily using the M8 and the M9 together in the same camera bag. They complement each other very well. The 1.3 crop can be used as an advantage to reduce the number of lenses to carry around. A 50mm lens on the M8 becomes a great portrait lens, say. They use the same battery type and charger, of course.
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Old 11-08-2016   #25
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Quote:
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The 1.3 crop can be used as an advantage to reduce the number of lenses to carry around. A 50mm lens on the M8 becomes a great portrait lens, say.
You could as well crop your M9 images in post.
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Old 11-08-2016   #26
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Yes, I could.

I have the two cameras, so I use them the way it suits me best. Here, the crop helps me when we travel as it is in addition to having with me the M9 for full format. I do not crop my M9 images. It works for me this way.
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Old 11-08-2016   #27
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Question: I have a number of cut filters for the M8.2. Will I need to remove these and install regular UV filters when using the lenses on M9?
S
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Old 11-08-2016   #28
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Some say to use them on the M9 too.
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Old 11-08-2016   #29
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I agree regarding the M8 with the 50 as a portrait lens, works well in that capacity.
On another note: I wonder how many shooters are still working with film Leica's?
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Old 11-08-2016   #30
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Raid, do you generally travel with both cameras? Or choose one? Do you assign a specific lens to each (if both)?

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Yes, I could.

I have the two cameras, so I use them the way it suits me best. Here, the crop helps me when we travel as it is in addition to having with me the M9 for full format. I do not crop my M9 images. It works for me this way.
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Old 11-08-2016   #31
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Question: I have a number of cut filters for the M8.2. Will I need to remove these and install regular UV filters when using the lenses on M9?
S
The M8 and M8.2 have a IR-blocking cover glass 0.5mm thick, which lets significant amounts of IR on through. The M9's cover glass is 0.8mm thick, and while it blocks more IR than the M8, it still lets a good bit of IR on through. Not *quite* as necessary to use the filter, but... I would like to block more IR in both cameras, so I leave the UV/IR Cut filters on the lenses whichever camera they're on... to also include the M240 whose cover glass is 0.7mm according to some info sources.

The stray IR has an effect on some colors, depending on the IR content of the light. Heat lamps, incandescent lighting, direct sun... Not just black artificial fabrics turning purple, but foliage taking on a yellowy-brown tint, pinkish skin tones, and generally slightly skewed colors of various sorts.

I thought at first I could get away with not using the filters... wrong! I set off with my new M8 to Malta and Sicily on vacation in 2008 and quickly found that what the experts said about IR was right after all. Similar with the M9 but not to the same degree.
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Old 11-09-2016   #32
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Raid, do you generally travel with both cameras? Or choose one? Do you assign a specific lens to each (if both)?
Yes, I often travel with both cameras. They make a perfect set for me. The M9 gets the 25mm or the 35mm lenses, while the M8 gets the 50mm lens. I prefer to stay away from extreme wide angle lenses and I look for what looks "natural".
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Old 11-09-2016   #33
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The M8 and M8.2 have a IR-blocking cover glass 0.5mm thick, which lets significant amounts of IR on through. The M9's cover glass is 0.8mm thick, and while it blocks more IR than the M8, it still lets a good bit of IR on through. Not *quite* as necessary to use the filter, but... I would like to block more IR in both cameras, so I leave the UV/IR Cut filters on the lenses whichever camera they're on... to also include the M240 whose cover glass is 0.7mm according to some info sources.

The stray IR has an effect on some colors, depending on the IR content of the light. Heat lamps, incandescent lighting, direct sun... Not just black artificial fabrics turning purple, but foliage taking on a yellowy-brown tint, pinkish skin tones, and generally slightly skewed colors of various sorts.

I thought at first I could get away with not using the filters... wrong! I set off with my new M8 to Malta and Sicily on vacation in 2008 and quickly found that what the experts said about IR was right after all. Similar with the M9 but not to the same degree.
The M(Typ240) is even more IR sensitive. I have never stopped using my filters.
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Old 11-09-2016   #34
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That's good to know and I do have a number of cut filters as well as straight IR filters. I am primarily a black and white shooter, some of my film cameras have never tasted color film. M8.2 and M9 images I most often convert to B&W in Silver Effects Pro.
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Old 11-09-2016   #36
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For the money.....Fuji. Just one man's opinion....sure to see blowback.
I'd rather get M8 or R-D1, not for money, but for RF. But I'm not live view user, I don't want to waste my time with it.


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On another note: I wonder how many shooters are still working with film Leica's?
With Barnacs probably three times more than with digital M.
I have three film M and one digital M.
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Old 11-09-2016   #37
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That's good to know and I do have a number of cut filters as well as straight IR filters. I am primarily a black and white shooter, some of my film cameras have never tasted color film. M8.2 and M9 images I most often convert to B&W in Silver Effects Pro.
Hi -- We should make sure to distinguish between the UV/IR Cut filters which block IR + UV, and those previously called simply IR filters which let IR through and block most everything else!

For black & white, some like to leave off the UV/IR Cut filter to let some IR through, preferring the mild change in tonality. This was how I intended to use my first M8, but instead I got a very useful lesson that I am really a color shooter at heart!

But one potential drawback with the IR content in B&W is that it's focused to a slightly different point than visible light, resulting in slight fuzzing of sharp detail. And for some this also could be an attractive feature. I suppose an apochromatic (APO) lens, which is expected to focus a wider range of light frequencies to the same point, would avoid that issue.
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Old 11-09-2016   #38
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I have never used an IR filter with my M8 or M9.
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Old 11-09-2016   #39
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The higher pixel count of the M9 lets me crop out empty foreground when using the vertical (portrait) orientation to eliminate converging verticals in architectural shots. I can crop out 1/3 or 1/2 out of the bottom, and still have 9 to 12 megapixels left--which is plenty.

I do miss the more accurate framelines of the M8.2. But overall, I like the M9 better. And one more thing: I like being able to enter the lens data without needing to have lenses coded (mine aren't).
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Old 11-09-2016   #40
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I have no coded lenses for the M8.
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