Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Sony Alpha 7 / NEX Mirrorless > Sony NEX APS-C format

Sony NEX APS-C format For the many Sony fixed lens digital compact cameras

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

New A6000 issue
Old 12-03-2015   #1
srtiwari
Daktari
 
srtiwari's Avatar
 
srtiwari is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Posts: 1,022
New A6000 issue

Just picked up a new Sony a6000 at B&H this past weekend, and shot a few frames back here in Florida today.
The RAW files have this strange bright banding on most, but not all images. The JPEGs of the same are just fine.
Anyone know what causes this ? Is this a fixable issue, or should I just return the camera ?
Thanks for any advice...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg banding-2.jpg (20.4 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg banding-1.jpg (32.4 KB, 17 views)
__________________
Subhash
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2015   #2
YYV_146
Registered User
 
YYV_146's Avatar
 
YYV_146 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Durham, NC
Age: 30
Posts: 1,298
If the jpegs are fine, the camera should be okay. Have you tried opening the files with another software?
__________________
Victor is too lazy for DSLRs

Sony A7rII Kolari mod

Noctilux ASPH, 35lux FLE, 50 APO ASPH, 75 APO cron, 21lux, Sony/Minolta 135mm STF

500px
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2015   #3
ColSebastianMoran
Registered User
 
ColSebastianMoran's Avatar
 
ColSebastianMoran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,483
I'm with Victor. Try opening the RAWs with another program.

Never seen anything like this.

If it's new from the store, sounds like you are covered.
__________________
Col. Sebastian Moran, ret. (not really)

In Classifieds Now: Konica Auto S2, Voigtlander VC Meter II, and a pair of XA-2's
Giveaway: Voigtlander Vitoret, Point-N-Shoots
Use this link to leave feedback for me.

Named "Best heavy-game shooter in the Eastern Empire." Clubs: Anglo-Indian, Tankerville, and Bagatelle Card Club.
Sony E/FE, Nikon dSLR, and iPhone digital. Misc film.
Birds, portraits, events, family. Mindfulness, reflection, creativity, and stance.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2015   #4
Bille
Registered User
 
Bille's Avatar
 
Bille is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Age: 39
Posts: 652
Quote:
Originally Posted by srtiwari View Post
Anyone know what causes this ?
Upload the raw file and we will see.
__________________
Tumblr
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2015   #5
srtiwari
Daktari
 
srtiwari's Avatar
 
srtiwari is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Posts: 1,022
Yes the JPGs are fine.
Yes, I opened the files with Iridient, and they show the same banding.

However, when I look at the file directly on the SD card itself when mounted on my Desktop (Mac), it does not show the banding ! It only does that when in Lightroom or Iridient .

Here are links from my DropBox which will allow downloading the RAW files.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0napr18oc...00009.ARW?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8y8qku2kyx...00011.ARW?dl=0
__________________
Subhash
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2015   #6
pvdhaar
Zoom with your feet!
 
pvdhaar's Avatar
 
pvdhaar is offline
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by srtiwari View Post
Yes the JPGs are fine.
Yes, I opened the files with Iridient, and they show the same banding.

However, when I look at the file directly on the SD card itself when mounted on my Desktop (Mac), it does not show the banding ! It only does that when in Lightroom or Iridient .

Here are links from my DropBox which will allow downloading the RAW files.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0napr18oc...00009.ARW?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8y8qku2kyx...00011.ARW?dl=0
I just loaded the first one in Sony's own 'Image Data Converter'.. There are absolutely no artifacts. Converted it to jpg, and that's also fine..
__________________
Kind regards,

Peter

My Hexländer Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2015   #7
pvdhaar
Zoom with your feet!
 
pvdhaar's Avatar
 
pvdhaar is offline
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvdhaar View Post
I just loaded the first one in Sony's own 'Image Data Converter'.. There are absolutely no artifacts. Converted it to jpg, and that's also fine..
Also loaded and converted the second image.. Same story: no artifacts.

On a side note though.. You're shooting a combination of high iso (3200 for the chair, 1250 for the house) and underexposure (-1EV). Sony has a tendency to already marginally expose to avoid blowing out highlights. My experience is that running them at +1/3 to +2/3 EV at higher ISO gives files that give more data/depth to work with in post processing.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC00009.jpg (25.5 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg DSC00011.jpg (14.8 KB, 4 views)
__________________
Kind regards,

Peter

My Hexländer Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2015   #8
YYV_146
Registered User
 
YYV_146's Avatar
 
YYV_146 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Durham, NC
Age: 30
Posts: 1,298
Quote:
Originally Posted by srtiwari View Post
Yes the JPGs are fine.
Yes, I opened the files with Iridient, and they show the same banding.

However, when I look at the file directly on the SD card itself when mounted on my Desktop (Mac), it does not show the banding ! It only does that when in Lightroom or Iridient .

Here are links from my DropBox which will allow downloading the RAW files.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0napr18oc...00009.ARW?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8y8qku2kyx...00011.ARW?dl=0
checked with CC and latest version of ACR. All good.
__________________
Victor is too lazy for DSLRs

Sony A7rII Kolari mod

Noctilux ASPH, 35lux FLE, 50 APO ASPH, 75 APO cron, 21lux, Sony/Minolta 135mm STF

500px
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-03-2015   #9
kxl
Social Documentary
 
kxl's Avatar
 
kxl is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sunny SoCal
Posts: 2,638
I've heard about this before (in fact, here's the thread) and I don't think anyone has really come up with a root cause, although conjecture includes hardware issues during file transfer or the way Lightroom compresses RAW files or ???.

Only consensus seems to be: it's not the camera.
__________________
Keith
My website
RFF feedback


"... I thought the only way to give us an incentive, to bring hope, is to show the pictures of the pristine planet - to see the innocence.” ― Sebastiao Salgado
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2015   #10
tbhv55
Registered User
 
tbhv55 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Devon, UK
Age: 61
Posts: 452
I have just tried with Rawtherapee, and with Faststone Image Viewer, and no sign of the problem.
I also tried it in Sony IDC (as did pvdhaar), and no problem there either.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2015   #11
srtiwari
Daktari
 
srtiwari's Avatar
 
srtiwari is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Posts: 1,022
Thank you all for the feedback !
Further..
I put the same SD card, with the original images still on it, into a different reader, and reimported them into Lightroom, and also Iridient, and they were just fine.
It would seem to point to the SD card reader as the culprit.
The files were not damaged/corrupted.
__________________
Subhash
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2015   #12
srtiwari
Daktari
 
srtiwari's Avatar
 
srtiwari is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Posts: 1,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvdhaar View Post
Also loaded and converted the second image.. Same story: no artifacts.

On a side note though.. You're shooting a combination of high iso (3200 for the chair, 1250 for the house) and underexposure (-1EV). Sony has a tendency to already marginally expose to avoid blowing out highlights. My experience is that running them at +1/3 to +2/3 EV at higher ISO gives files that give more data/depth to work with in post processing.
Thanks for the side note Peter.
I am forced to use high ISO in low light, and use -.7 to -2.0 to generate an image that duplicates the low light, rather than it showing up as bright daylight. Is there a better way to do this ?
Subhash
__________________
Subhash
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2015   #13
pvdhaar
Zoom with your feet!
 
pvdhaar's Avatar
 
pvdhaar is offline
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by srtiwari View Post
Thanks for the side note Peter.
I am forced to use high ISO in low light, and use -.7 to -2.0 to generate an image that duplicates the low light, rather than it showing up as bright daylight. Is there a better way to do this ?
Subhash
There is.. In short: don't underexpose during capture. Dial down the brightness only afterwards in post processing to make the image resemble the scene you saw.

This way you retain much more shadow detail. What you're now doing is the opposite.. the exposure is so thin, that you have no good differentiation between light levels in the shadows, and these now come out mushy and can't be recovered. Moreover, there are no highlights to preserve, so there's no need to underexpose.

Instead of not underexposing at all, you can even go a bit further and overexpose if the highlights don't get blown out. This method is called 'expose to the right' and explained extensively on the web (e.g. Google on ETTR)..

If you really need to create the image in camera, there's a free app that you can install on the a6000 (Photo Retouch) that allows you to change the brightness and contrast of a jpeg image that you've captured. You'll get better results shooting jpeg with the ETTR method and dialing down brightness than with underexposed high ISO RAW and trying to recover detail that isn't there..
__________________
Kind regards,

Peter

My Hexländer Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-04-2015   #14
srtiwari
Daktari
 
srtiwari's Avatar
 
srtiwari is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Posts: 1,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvdhaar View Post
There is.. In short: don't underexpose during capture. Dial down the brightness only afterwards in post processing to make the image resemble the scene you saw.

This way you retain much more shadow detail. What you're now doing is the opposite.. the exposure is so thin, that you have no good differentiation between light levels in the shadows, and these now come out mushy and can't be recovered. Moreover, there are no highlights to preserve, so there's no need to underexpose.

Instead of not underexposing at all, you can even go a bit further and overexpose if the highlights don't get blown out. This method is called 'expose to the right' and explained extensively on the web (e.g. Google on ETTR)..

If you really need to create the image in camera, there's a free app that you can install on the a6000 (Photo Retouch) that allows you to change the brightness and contrast of a jpeg image that you've captured. You'll get better results shooting jpeg with the ETTR method and dialing down brightness than with underexposed high ISO RAW and trying to recover detail that isn't there..
Thank you for that. I'm going to try it.
-Subhash
__________________
Subhash
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-05-2015   #15
srtiwari
Daktari
 
srtiwari's Avatar
 
srtiwari is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Posts: 1,022
Oh, Oh ! Problem NOT solved.
I had thought it was the Card reader, but now another Card reader (which I have used in the past without problems) has the same issue. And yet, the desktop view of the contents of the card look just fine !
Could someone using Lightroom please try this file and see if it has the same problem ? That would implicate the software's RAW conversion...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0napr18oc...00009.ARW?dl=0
__________________
Subhash
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-05-2015   #16
ColSebastianMoran
Registered User
 
ColSebastianMoran's Avatar
 
ColSebastianMoran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,483
I, too, opened the first raw file with no problem (Lightroom and Apple Preview, both on Mac). Tried, but cannot download the file linked in #15 (gives 404 error, not found). So, back to the first files:

It's not the file, and therefore not the camera.

It's not the file, so whatever you used to get the file onto Dropbox is also OK.

That leaves your computer, or more specifically, your computer while running software. Test memory? Reinstall software? This is a thorny one. Please let us know what happens!
__________________
Col. Sebastian Moran, ret. (not really)

In Classifieds Now: Konica Auto S2, Voigtlander VC Meter II, and a pair of XA-2's
Giveaway: Voigtlander Vitoret, Point-N-Shoots
Use this link to leave feedback for me.

Named "Best heavy-game shooter in the Eastern Empire." Clubs: Anglo-Indian, Tankerville, and Bagatelle Card Club.
Sony E/FE, Nikon dSLR, and iPhone digital. Misc film.
Birds, portraits, events, family. Mindfulness, reflection, creativity, and stance.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-05-2015   #17
srtiwari
Daktari
 
srtiwari's Avatar
 
srtiwari is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vero Beach, Florida
Posts: 1,022
Further...
1. It only occurs in Lightroom, although I thought I saw it once in Iridient. Never happened again !
2. Reimporting into Lightroom sometimes does not replicate the problem.
2. Happens with, both, Fuji and Sony RAW files.
3. The Bands are always parallel to the longer side - upright in Portrait mode and horizontal in Landscape, and only cover about half the image.
4. It is inconsistent- sometimes 2 RAW images can be side by side, but only one shows the banding.

It looks like it may be something Lightroom does to the files at the time of importing. Actually, I can see the banding on the thumbnails window in Lightroom just after importing. Since I don't change anything from defaults, I have no idea what causes this !?
__________________
Subhash
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-06-2015   #18
pvdhaar
Zoom with your feet!
 
pvdhaar's Avatar
 
pvdhaar is offline
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by srtiwari View Post
Oh, Oh ! Problem NOT solved.
I had thought it was the Card reader, but now another Card reader (which I have used in the past without problems) has the same issue.
If reading the images from the card sometimes fails and sometimes not, then the card is (intermittently) failing. Best to throw it away, and get a new one; this one is near end of life.

Intermittent reader failure of flash cards indicates that the flash memory cells are only written marginally, so that read-out success depends on temperature and supply voltage drop..
__________________
Kind regards,

Peter

My Hexländer Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-10-2015   #19
ColSebastianMoran
Registered User
 
ColSebastianMoran's Avatar
 
ColSebastianMoran is offline
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,483
I highly doubt a Lightroom bug. It might be a bad installation, but I'm betting it's interaction with other software or a hardware problem.

I suggest:
- Reinstall Lightroom
- Have your computer checked out
__________________
Col. Sebastian Moran, ret. (not really)

In Classifieds Now: Konica Auto S2, Voigtlander VC Meter II, and a pair of XA-2's
Giveaway: Voigtlander Vitoret, Point-N-Shoots
Use this link to leave feedback for me.

Named "Best heavy-game shooter in the Eastern Empire." Clubs: Anglo-Indian, Tankerville, and Bagatelle Card Club.
Sony E/FE, Nikon dSLR, and iPhone digital. Misc film.
Birds, portraits, events, family. Mindfulness, reflection, creativity, and stance.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 18:22.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.