Old 4 Days Ago   #161
theblackbrick
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Hi everyone, I'm new here. Came here for the same reason that many, looking info about my next purchase ...

I've been watching the new and used market for months trying to decide. I was up for an M262. Then the MD came out, oh what a beauty! Then the M10 came out ... Slimmer sexy body, physical dial for the ISO, higher ISO, and faster processing. For sure looks great.

Anyway, after narrow it down to 2 cameras, I'm going back and forward in between the 262 or the M10. But that is another story.

The point here is that I've been watching what the used market has been doing and this is how I see what is happening. Well, maybe I see it in a more theatrical way than it really is

If you look closely to it, most of the "great deals" are M240s. The M262 is not depreciating as much and there are not that many out there, at least not as many as 240s. Why? Well, I believe there are couple reasons to it. One the buyers of the M240/M240P where buying the M flagship, a lot of these people bought it because it was "the best M" (unless you shoot exclusively BW). And let's be honest to buy that camera (or any Leica) you have to have deep pockets or going through a midlife crisis like me (replace little sport car for Leica) Pretty much everybody (sorry if you are not everybody) hated the video feature. Really, video on a Leica?!?! So the new camera comes out. Oh God it looks so good! It is what everybody been crying out loud for. So there goes all the people that either like to have the best and the latest all the time, plus all the ones that hated the video feature, plus those that are in both groups, and they flooded the used market with their M240s.
Then you have the M262 owners, they didn't want video in their camera; they might care about not having brass plates so when the camera brasses out looks cool, but heck they paid way less; maybe they didn't have such deep pockets, they bought the cheapest new Leica they could afford, "change now? No way! I just spend a ton of money in this M262". So they stick with it.
Meanwhile you have the MD owners, kind of in a corner looking at all this like :| because they have a "rare" item. So when they bought it they bought it with all their heart in it, "this camera is what i wanted my whole life". But now they are wondering if the camera will keep a good value in the middle of all this craziness or is so much of a niche that it will be hard to sell it later down the road.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #162
uhoh7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblackbrick View Post
Hi everyone, I'm new here. Came here for the same reason that many, looking info about my next purchase ...

I've been watching the new and used market for months trying to decide. I was up for an M262. Then the MD came out, oh what a beauty! Then the M10 came out ... Slimmer sexy body, physical dial for the ISO, higher ISO, and faster processing. For sure looks great.

Anyway, after narrow it down to 2 cameras, I'm going back and forward in between the 262 or the M10. But that is another story.

The point here is that I've been watching what the used market has been doing and this is how I see what is happening. Well, maybe I see it in a more theatrical way than it really is

If you look closely to it, most of the "great deals" are M240s. The M262 is not depreciating as much and there are not that many out there, at least not as many as 240s. Why? Well, I believe there are couple reasons to it. One the buyers of the M240/M240P where buying the M flagship, a lot of these people bought it because it was "the best M" (unless you shoot exclusively BW). And let's be honest to buy that camera (or any Leica) you have to have deep pockets or going through a midlife crisis like me (replace little sport car for Leica) Pretty much everybody (sorry if you are not everybody) hated the video feature. Really, video on a Leica?!?! So the new camera comes out. Oh God it looks so good! It is what everybody been crying out loud for. So there goes all the people that either like to have the best and the latest all the time, plus all the ones that hated the video feature, plus those that are in both groups, and they flooded the used market with their M240s.
Then you have the M262 owners, they didn't want video in their camera; they might care about not having brass plates so when the camera brasses out looks cool, but heck they paid way less; maybe they didn't have such deep pockets, they bought the cheapest new Leica they could afford, "change now? No way! I just spend a ton of money in this M262". So they stick with it.
Meanwhile you have the MD owners, kind of in a corner looking at all this like :| because they have a "rare" item. So when they bought it they bought it with all their heart in it, "this camera is what i wanted my whole life". But now they are wondering if the camera will keep a good value in the middle of all this craziness or is so much of a niche that it will be hard to sell it later down the road.
yup. M240s will go down more......

that's a bad thing?
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Old 4 Days Ago   #163
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theblackbrick, welcome to RFF and thank you for the great analysis of first-gen-CMOS-sensor-M owners (to put all that family of cameras into one category). I definitely fall into one of those characterisations.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #164
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I have no interest in video.

Does anyone know if the M240's video capability degrades its technical performance in any way?
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Old 4 Days Ago   #165
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theblackbrick welcome to RFF! Interesting analysis you made!

I was on the fence in buying the 262 (no need for video personally) but not sure about it, and when I have to spend such an amount of money I desire to be sure!

Now I'm on a waiting list for the M10 which seems to be ideal for my desires. For sure if a few months ago I had bought a 262 I wouldn't sell it now to upgrade but I would try to get the best out of it!

The MD...wow, that is a dream camera, if I already had another good versatile digital camera I had seriously considered it but as the only digital camera no.

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Old 4 Days Ago   #166
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Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
I have no interest in video.

Does anyone know if the M240's video capability degrades its technical performance in any way?
Yes it makes the shutter three times louder, adds 75g to the weight, 6mm to the thickness and halves the battery life, it's always switching on when you don't want it and generally marks your card as being a complete dick.......Oh, just double checked, it seems no, it doesn't.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #167
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Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
yup. M240s will go down more......
I doubt they will go down much more, especially once the M10 frenzy dies down. I have an M10 on pre-order but I am having second thoughts about it.

The reason is that my M240 is just a hell of a workhorse, it just earned me $12k in 10 days shooting a book project on the World Cup skiing finals. From what I could tell the M10 gave me about one stop of high ISO, so that is not blowing my socks off either. Plus....I *really* love using the red frame lines in super low light and the battery life is just nuts, 2,000 shots per charge. I never use the video but it also never gets in the way, I think I have accidentally activated it once.

I think I will just keep right on using my M240 that I paid $4K for used on this forum two years ago. As nice as the M10 is I am not really sure I need it and the 240 is an amazing camera.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #168
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Well, I hope no one got offended by my analysis, I was trying to bring a bit of comedy to the whole depreciation thing, lol. But yeah, basically it is how I see it.

Also uhoh7 was saying if it is a bad thing, I guess depends for who Those who are trying to sell are provably like while those who are looking to buy are provably like

I'm looking to buy
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Old 4 Days Ago   #169
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Coming from the M9 family I bought a barely used MD instead. Never had a movie button, not sure I'd want that "feature." The price difference between the used MD versus a new M10 meant saving over $2000, and I have the MD in hand rather than waiting months or hysterically overpaying on eBay.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #170
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My hope is that enough people continue to prefer the CCD output, so that my M9-P still holds decent value when I'm eventually in the market for a used M10.
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Old 3 Days Ago   #171
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Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
I have no interest in video.

Does anyone know if the M240's video capability degrades its technical performance in any way?
Yes - photographers tend to try it out and discover that it is not too bad at all and comes in handily on occasion.
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Old 3 Days Ago   #172
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A year ago used prices for a M240 in good condition was around 3500-3600 EUR. Now its 3300-3400 EUR. I agree, the M10 completely destroyed the used market
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Old 3 Days Ago   #173
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Originally Posted by theblackbrick View Post
Well, I hope no one got offended by my analysis, I was trying to bring a bit of comedy to the whole depreciation thing, lol. But yeah, basically it is how I see it.

Also uhoh7 was saying if it is a bad thing, I guess depends for who Those who are trying to sell are provably like while those who are looking to buy are provably like

I'm looking to buy
I rather liked reading this thread and appreciate your report.
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Old 3 Days Ago   #174
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A year ago used prices for a M240 in good condition was around 3500-3600 EUR. Now its 3300-3400 EUR. I agree, the M10 completely destroyed the used market
jeez, they're basically giving them away. so much for those knowledgeable people who knew what they were talking about.
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Old 2 Days Ago   #175
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I rather liked reading this thread and appreciate your report.
Thank you
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Old 2 Days Ago   #176
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Originally Posted by tom.w.bn View Post
A year ago used prices for a M240 in good condition was around 3500-3600 EUR. Now its 3300-3400 EUR. I agree, the M10 completely destroyed the used market
I think destroying the market maybe is a bit too dramatic but definitely is harming it. I've see couple M240s go for under the $3000 mark this past month on ebay. Dang, even i'm starting to contemplate the idea of an M240-P if i can get my hands on a silver one under $3500 ... and I'm not a fan of the 240 but at that price is provably the best I can get
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