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Old 11-19-2015   #481
Corran
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Thanks guys. I don't have anything to fix the engraving, but if I ever get it CLA'd (the slow speed escapement needs to be worked on) I'll have it done.
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Old 11-19-2015   #482
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Peeling around lettering happens pretty often, chemical reaction with the alloy. Might be related to how the camera was stored. Btw in the reality this was not Woods metal, melting temperature of 60C would be too low. This is another alloy based on Bismuth with addition of Zn and Pb.
Polishing - yes, however carefully, lettering alloy is pretty soft.
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Old 11-20-2015   #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerzyw View Post
Btw in the reality this was not Woods metal, melting temperature of 60C would be too low. This is another alloy based on Bismuth with addition of Zn and Pb.
Very interesting information. Do you know the procedure how this lettering was applied? This still remains a mystery to me. Years ago some RFf-members tried to find an answer on this question in a thread, but to no avail.

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Old 11-20-2015   #484
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Many years ago I worked in a shop that made large diameter rings for jet engines out of high temperature alloy's. Many of these rings were very thin and holding them in the lathe's stress free was a challenge. To get around it they used something called Cerro metal. This metal would melt at a little below the boiling point of water. The ring was placed in a fixture and we used a small squirt bottle (and thick gloves) to pour the Cerro metal around the part which would cool and hold the part well enough to allow machining. I expect a much smaller bottle or syringe could hold the liquid metal and allow a skilled hand to fill an engraving. Speculation for what it's worth. Joe
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Old 11-20-2015   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny Lane View Post
My first Leica, '48 IIIc converted to IIIf BD:


Leica IIIc-f BD 1 by bimmer1502, on Flickr


Leica IIIc-f BD 2 by bimmer1502, on Flickr
Derk, what a beautiful camera.
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Old 11-20-2015   #486
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Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Very interesting information. Do you know the procedure how this lettering was applied? This still remains a mystery to me. Years ago some RFf-members tried to find an answer on this question in a thread, but to no avail.

Erik.
Erik,

I understood that the item was painted, the paint hardened then engraved and then the bismut/bismuth/Woods metal or whatever it is was, was wiped over, sticking to the exposed brass but wiping off the already hardened paint. This could just be 'legend' mind you...

What I do know is that if you take a small torch/gas soldering iron etc and heat the underside of some of this lettering you can get the lettering to appear to 'shine up' as if it has been partially re melted in situ. I did this once some time ago, Peter at CRR has also done it with some success but I wouldn't suggest that we all start trying it and watching our nice black cameras start to bubble!
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Old 11-20-2015   #487
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This is the process as I heard. I was doing some experiments in the past, however with no real success. There are two critical aspects, firstly to find precise chemical formula for alloy and secondly timing between engraving and applying alloy. It has to be done immediately after engraving otherwise brass is oxidizing and alloy does not stick to brass.
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Old 11-20-2015   #488
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All these assumtions are sounding immensely complex in my ears. Thousands of cameras have this type of lettering. It must have been something relatively simple, also given the fact that this type of metal is very toxic.

Erik.
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Old 11-20-2015   #489
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I think it is less complicated then it sounds. Few years ago I heard it from former Leitz employees. This October, when meeting very well known Leica repairman from Wetzlar he confirmed the process. I was however not able to get info about formula of alloy. Either they really do not know or keep it as a secret.
For engraving Leica used so called pantograph, later on, mainly with chrom plated they switchedto stamping. Stamping was used as well for black Leicas, lettering was done with white paint. You may observe it for example on sync conversions.
Toxity of heavy metals was not a subject in 20ties and 30ties and Soldering metal used nowadays contains both Pb and Sn.
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Old 11-21-2015   #490
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Thank you Jerzyw for this information. Is the very well known Leica repairman Ottmar Michaely?

I know the pantograph, pantographs were also used for the lettering on the early Nikons. The difference between stamping and engraving is easy to see; as far as I know the serial numbers were always engraved. The conversion-Leicas were always engraved completely, presumably because of the low quantity.

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Old 11-30-2015   #491
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Shot with my black post war Leica II conversion.

Leica II, Color-Skopar 50mm f/2.5, Tmax400.

Erik.

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Leica IIIa upgrade to IIIa-syn
Old 01-14-2016   #492
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Leica IIIa upgrade to IIIa-syn

My Leica IIIa upgrade to IIIa-syn

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Help with this 1a converted???
Old 05-10-2016   #493
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Help with this 1a converted???

Hi, just joined RFF, have a few M cameras and have just started collecting a few old LTM's. I would appreciate any help that you LTM gurus might be able to give regarding just what has been done to this camera. Its a 5 digit 1a but obviously has had the "hockey stick" modified, cut back... Also, it came without a lens and when i bought it (at an online auction with zero info about it) I had thought it was modified to take standardized lenses, but that is not the case... the threaded mount on the lens ring as shown on the camera will not take a standardized nickel Elmar 5cm that i bought for it, and even when I dis-assembled the lens, the barrel thread will not start in the on camera ring either, although it seems to be very close. Could be that the threads are bad?

Basically I would like to know more about it, and get a lens on it... Any ideas or thoughts would be appreciated, thanks
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File Type: jpg Leica Model 1a-330a.jpg (30.7 KB, 38 views)
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Old 05-10-2016   #494
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I would say that the ring on the camera is the female part of the focusing assembly. The male part of the lens unit is removed. When you remove the screw with the long head at least the male part of the original lens should fit. I don't know if a male part of any Elmar will fit.

It looks to me a normal late Leica I with rather strange strap lugs added.

The camera is partly repainted or is it dirt? Maybe you can remove this with lighter fluid. The camera will look better and maybe the serial number will become readable.

Erik.
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Thanks Erik
Old 05-11-2016   #495
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Thanks Erik

Thanks for the info Erik. Yes, it looks to have been at least partially repainted some decades ago, and the paint over the serial number has been mostly removed so that I can make out the serial number, just.

For the female lens ring on the camera, I had removed the 'long head' screw and tried installing the female section of the standardized nickle lens (see photo attached here) but as I mentioned, the threads would not start easily, and I did not try to force the issue.

So then, the female ring that is on the camera has the upper part of it cut flat to fit under the top plate... so I assume then I need to find a lens like that to install on the camera, correct? I have had a look around on eBay and did not see any like that, rare I suppose, all are the fully round type. Not sure about the 7 vs 11 oclock lens issue so will study up on it to see if there is some thread variation?? Thanks again
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Old 05-11-2016   #496
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I agree with Erik regarding the ring or mount. No clue about those odd lugs.

To make things worse it is possible, though unlikely, that the missing lens might have been a Hektor...

I think the fixed lens cameras have a different mount to film distance. I remember that certainly the earlier ones had the lens mounted over machined vulcanite and were built accordingly.

Ages ago we had a thread about 'short' and 'long' 50mm Elmars that highlighted differences between fixed or converted and interchangeable lenses. Obvious a converted lens has the same mount to film distance as an interchangeable one, the differences being taken up in the mount.

Furthermore I haven't got anything to check it with but isn't the 'throw' of a fixed lens different from that of an interchangeable one? If so this would mean the helical's pitch was different.

Islandor has got a bit of a problem here. The solution would be to find a whole 'fixed' lens and mount. It will need shimming etc. He'll also need to find a hockey stick too but that is not essential.

Curiously, here's one but at that price and bearing in mind the condition of the camera (and this lens) I would think twice.

http://mwclassic.com/product/leitz-w...i-flange-only/

Please correct me if I am wrong, don't want to start any internet myths!

Michael
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Old 05-11-2016   #497
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This was the thread about short and long Elmars (in retrospect somewhat inconclusive methinks)

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ht=short+elmar

And here is the missing pic

IMG_0487-001 by dralowid, on Flickr
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Old 05-11-2016   #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandor View Post
Not sure about the 7 vs 11 oclock lens issue
These names indicate the position of the knob of the lens at infinity seen from front. Originally it was 11-o-clock, but later this became 7-o-clock.

An advise: do not remove and replace the screw with the long head too often. This screw goes right into the soft aluminium of the housing of the camera. The thread into the aluminium is easily damaged. This is the weak point of the Leica I with fixed lens. Take care!

Erik.
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Old 05-11-2016   #499
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Michael:
Quote:
The solution would be to find a whole 'fixed' lens and mount. It will need shimming etc. He'll also need to find a hockey stick too but that is not essential.

Curiously, here's one but at that price and bearing in mind the condition of the camera (and this lens) I would think twice.
Erik:
HTML Code:
These names indicate the position of the knob of the lens at infinity seen from front. Originally it was 11-o-clock, but later this became 7-o-clock.

An advise: do not remove and replace the screw with the long head too often. This screw goes right into the soft aluminium of the housing of the camera. The thread into the aluminium is easily damaged. This is the weak point of the Leica I with fixed lens. Take care!
Thanks guys, great info... so it seems that I need the Leica 1 "fixed lens" similar to the one for sale in that link, only that one seems to have the long head screw well stripped out... so guess I will look for one as I would like to get it back in shape so that it will work as intended.

Cheers, Bob

Last edited by Islandor : 05-11-2016 at 05:12. Reason: Added PS
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Old 05-11-2016   #500
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Bob,

They do come up for sale a little more often than you might think.

Good luck

Michael
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Thanks Michael
Old 05-11-2016   #501
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Thanks Michael

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They do come up for sale a little more often than you might think. 

Good luck

Michael
Glad to hear it, thanks !
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Brochure?
Old 09-09-2016   #502
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Brochure?

In this lot they mention a brochure that describes upgrades/conversions and their costs. Does anyone have a copy?

http://auction.catawiki.com/kavels/7...age_bid_on_lot

Big money for a II syn....
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Old 09-09-2016   #503
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Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
Does anyone have a copy?


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Old 09-10-2016   #504
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Thanks Erik,

I didn't realise it was they were talking about the same thing! You kindly posted this for me ages ago.

Off topic but I wonder if there is any contemporary literature relating to factory Contax I revisions and upgrades, the application of the 'A' prefix to serial numbers etc etc
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Old 09-10-2016   #505
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Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post

Off topic but I wonder if there is any contemporary literature relating to factory Contax I revisions and upgrades, the application of the 'A' prefix to serial numbers etc etc
I only know the book of Kuc, good, but that is now very old, 25 years or so.

I think in Germany there is some serious collecting, but not much.

I've repaired myself two Contax I until now, a v5 and a v7. I've put new ribbons in them, Aki Asahi. They keep well. However, they do not open their shutters at 1/500 and 1/1000, but for me that is no problem as I never use these speeds. The repair is not really difficult, but is time consuming. Highway 61 (Nicolas) gave me good advice.

Apart from the ribbons the camera is built like a tank.

I shoot quite a lot with a v4. Maybe that camera is upgraded in the fifties because it has a flash synch. The socket is beautifully placed behind the right strap lug, seen from front. This camera works flawless. I prefer the clean design of the early versions, v1, v2, v3 and v4. They look like a cigar box.

Erik.
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Old 09-10-2016   #506
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...The finder is highly valued....
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Old 01-03-2017   #507
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Took delivery of a nice little Leica today, that needs work done.

Started out as a Standard in 1932, but was upgraded to a IIa-syn. Oddly enough, most of the trim was kept in nickel, only the speed dial, flash dial and lens mount were changed over to chrome. And the strap lugs of course!

It needs a new shutter curtain and I've decided to do it myself. Probably will do them both. Might take me a while to get it right but I've got abundant spare time anyway. Supplies and instruction book are in the mail, ready, set, go.

Picture to follow. There's the early Jupiter-8 from my avatar on it now, and it looks right.
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Old 01-04-2017   #508
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Quote:
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Took delivery of a nice little Leica today, that needs work done.

Started out as a Standard in 1932, but was upgraded to a IIa-syn. Oddly enough, most of the trim was kept in nickel, only the speed dial, flash dial and lens mount were changed over to chrome. And the strap lugs of course!

It needs a new shutter curtain and I've decided to do it myself. Probably will do them both. Might take me a while to get it right but I've got abundant spare time anyway. Supplies and instruction book are in the mail, ready, set, go.

Picture to follow. There's the early Jupiter-8 from my avatar on it now, and it looks right.
Show us please....
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Old 01-04-2017   #509
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Can anyone shed any light on this IIIf conversion?




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Old 01-06-2017   #510
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Robert, I'll let the experts shed a light on the specifics of the conversion. But, that camera is 216 cameras away from Yevgheni Khaldei's camera (no. 257498) that took this shot:





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Old 01-06-2017   #511
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Can anyone shed any light on this IIIf conversion?




This is originally a Leica Standard from 1937 turned into a Leica IIIa with flash synch in the period 1954 - 1960.

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Old 01-06-2017   #512
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Thanks Erik, they only offered such conversions during that time?
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Old 01-06-2017   #513
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Factory conversions were offered from the very beginning of production, well obviously not the very beginning but as soon as there was a newer model to convert to (if you see what I mean).

This can mean that a Standard converted to IIIa in the 1930s can have quite different features to the same conversion done in the 1950s
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Old 01-06-2017   #514
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Thanks Erik, they only offered such conversions during that time?
No, you also could have them converted into a II, III or IIa, with or without flash synch. "a" means the addition of the 1/1000 speed.

Conversions without flash synch are much more rare however, because in the fifties flash photography became popular and people wanted their old Leicas to be converted for that.

Personally I am a big fan of the conversions without flash synch, but than in black.

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Old 01-06-2017   #515
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But what I'm getting at is the IIIa sync was only offered during that time?
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Old 01-06-2017   #516
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"a" means the addition of the 1/1000 speed.
As I understand things from one of your previous posts, this is really a second setting for 1/500?
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Old 01-06-2017   #517
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Yes, the 1/1000 was not really working. The same is true on the M-Leicas. 1/1000 on a classic M-Leica is about 1/750 in reality.

These old screwmount cameras have a really slow running shutter. The slit runs in 1/20 of a second from one side of the shutter opening to the other. In a M-Leica this is 1/50 of a second. In a Nikkormat it is 1/125 of a second. The faster the shutter runs, the more precise it can be.

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Old 01-06-2017   #518
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Thanks Erik!
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Old 02-08-2017   #519
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Something a bit different about the style of the serial number engraving?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEICA-III-...wAAOSwopRYmkOX
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Leica IIIa syn, Nickel-Elmar 3.5-50mm, VALOO
Old 04-22-2017   #520
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Leica IIIa syn, Nickel-Elmar 3.5-50mm, VALOO

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