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Summarit Disassembly- Help Needed.
Old 03-14-2009   #1
Brian Sweeney
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Summarit Disassembly- Help Needed.

I'm surprised by how little information is available on taking this lens apart. I am doing a "hacking Project", and have been supplied a Summarit-M for the experiment. I need to remove the Optics Module from the Focus Mount. It seems like it should "just unscrew", but I'm not willing to force it as there might be a hidden trick. Just removing the three set screws below the aperture ring allow the whole module to rotate, allowing indexing of the F-Stop ring.

The front group DID unscrew, and at least I cleaned the heavy haze out of it.

I would appreciate some help and Tips on this-
Thanks,
Brian
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Old 03-14-2009   #2
Tom A
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Brian, I have never ventured to take a Summarit apart! If at all possible, I tend to leave lenses to people like you and others who know how.
I will check around for information and if I can find it - pass it on to you.
I have a friend locally who does things like that. Also check with "Vic" on the Nikon site. He takes things like Nikkor 50f1.1's apart!

Last edited by Tom A : 03-14-2009 at 18:04.
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Old 03-14-2009   #3
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Hi Brian,
I don't know if you saw this, but I left you a post in this thread: clean a summilux

I inserted a pin in a hole covered by a side screw until it engaged. Then I could twist them apart.

Let me know if you have any trouble,
Mike
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Old 03-14-2009   #4
Brian Sweeney
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Justin- Thankyou for Summilux info!

Mike- the notes of the differences with the Summarit will be much appreciated.


I've ordered a book that is supposed to cover the Summarit.

Tom- appreciate the help.

I'll follow-up with the results. Mike points out that the Summarit is different from the Summilux, the optics head needs an extra trick to unscrew.

Last edited by Brian Sweeney : 03-14-2009 at 19:08.
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Old 03-14-2009   #5
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Hi Brain,
After removing the three ring screws you'll be able to rotate the optics mount freely. Then, insert a pin in the hole and rotate the optics mount until the pin enters the hole in the focus mount ring. In the second photo you can see the whole in the focus mount ring that you'll need to engage.


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File Type: jpg Hole.jpg (34.8 KB, 1692 views)
File Type: jpg Ring.jpg (38.2 KB, 1672 views)
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Old 03-14-2009   #6
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That was going to by my 419th guess as to how to do it.

Right after breaking out the LASER tip for the Dremel....

Thankyou!
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Old 07-03-2009   #7
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when you are finished, you need to sent the lens to a pro and have redone.
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Old 07-03-2009   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricko of Fla View Post
when you are finished, you need to sent the lens to a pro and have redone.
Ricko, Brian is a pro.

But thanks for the helpful post. Nice work.
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Old 07-03-2009   #9
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Well Ricko, this one did quite well after I finished with it.

It did not work out for a conversion for a Carl Zeiss Opton Sonnar. It can be used for a pre-war Sonnar conversion. Now a Pro machine shop might have been able to bore out the parts of the barrel that got in the way. I did not go that far.

As it was, I opened up the glass, cleaned out the haze, tested it, and sent it to its owner overseas.

I'm not a Pro camera repairman. I'm a Pro FORTRAN programmer. But I did have several optical engineers that worked for me.

This Summarit after cleaning the haze out of the surfaces on each side of the Aperture mechanism.





Not bad for a $200 Leitz lens. The front element had a lot of cleaning marks. But the internal haze was the real killer.

Last edited by Brian Sweeney : 07-03-2009 at 09:53.
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Wow, I'm amazed.
Old 07-03-2009   #10
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Wow, I'm amazed.

I would never have guessed.

Vick




Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeL View Post
Hi Brain,
After removing the three ring screws you'll be able to rotate the optics mount freely. Then, insert a pin in the hole and rotate the optics mount until the pin enters the hole in the focus mount ring. In the second photo you can see the whole in the focus mount ring that you'll need to engage.


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Old 07-03-2009   #11
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As a sidenote, not all pro repairshops can handle these old lenses and you need to find someone that can work on the "old stuff".

I had a Wartime CZJ SOnnar sent to me AFTER it had been worked on by a professional shop. You think they would have tightened up the retaining rings on the optics before reassembling it.

http://ziforums.com/showthread.php?t=120

The other great thing about being an amateur repairman- making offers on stuff that people send you AFTER fixing it and providing test results.



The lens worked better after undoing the previous repair. That took longer than just repairing it.

And I get to try the conversion again. I have a $20 Parts Summarit heading my way.
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Old 07-03-2009   #12
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Brian, OT:

did you post a remark on some other thread last week, saying a 90mm collapsible Elmar was easy to clean yourself, since the lens is a boasted 50mm optical design?

I received a 90mm collapsible with some haze on the front element and like to clean it myself if it turns out it can be done easily. Any tips on how to proceed are greatly appreciated!
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Old 07-03-2009   #13
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I'm building up a collection of 50mm Focus Mounts, lenses with Bad Glass.

The Nikkor 5cm F2 focus mount will work well with a CZJ Sonnar 5cm F2, wartime, pre-war, and probably post-war. The Summarit Mount coming in will end up being an M-Mount CZJ Sonnar.
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Old 07-03-2009   #14
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Collapsible 9cm Elmar: I did not photograph this procedure, but it only took a few minutes.

1) Remove the Name Ring using a rubber grommet, like that used to pass wiring and cables from a project box. Check the electrical section of an appliance store.

2) Under the name ring is the retaining ring for the front element. It has two holes in it for a spanner. I used a stiff set of needle nosed pliers to undo it. Front element comes off, giving access to the surfaces on each side of the aperture. That's where the haze usually accumulates.

From an old post, made right after I did mine:

YES: I just did this. I used as rubber grommet to take off the name ring. The black rim surrounding the front element holds down the name ring. Once it is off, you will see the two holes for the retaining ring for the front element. I used the needle-nosed pliers seen on my Avatar(edit: changed my Avatar!). Spread apart, they fit the two holes on each side of the lens element. The front element is pressed into place on this metal ring. It comes out as an assembly. Once out, I used ammonia based eyeglass cleaner on it, and the inner surface behind the aperture blades.. No need to go deeper, that did the trick for my lens. Open the aperture blades up all the way when opening the lens.

Last edited by Brian Sweeney : 07-03-2009 at 10:31.
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Old 07-03-2009   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney View Post
Collapsible 9cm Elmar: I did not photograph this procedure, but it only took a few minutes.

1) Remove the Name Ring using a rubber grommet, like that used to pass wiring and cables from a project box. Check the electrical section of an appliance store.

2) Under the name ring is the retaining ring for the front element. It has two holes in it for a spanner. I used a stiff set of needle nosed pliers to undo it. Front element comes off, giving access to the surfaces on each side of the aperture. That's where the haze usually accumulates.
Thanks Brian,

sounds real easy, piece of cake. I will proceed with this in the morning. Bedtime now.
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Old 08-04-2009   #16
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Hello Brian,
You mentioned in a previous post you had a $20, Summarit lens coming your way..
Dont know if your just using the bayonet fitting and scraping the rest.. but if so i'd be very interested in buying the screws from you.
Its a long story but i have a pretty good ,glass wise that is,Summarit screwmount with some of the screws missing from it and although its in working order,aperture ring is adjustable with only one pin screw in place,would be nice to have the complete set to finish it off.

Noel
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Aperture ring...
Old 11-12-2009   #17
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Aperture ring...

Hi! I disassembled my summarit, including the aperture ring, because there was no "clicks".
Well, I basically removed the three screws ON the aperture ring. Two of them are quite long, and I can't manage to get them back in! They go on partially, but when I try to screw them, it blocks, even if I perfectly align the arrow with the maximal aperture (diaphragm is fully opened).
The third screw I removed has a small bearing ball inside. Isn't there an other part meant to be there so that it clicks? If yes, how is it shaped?

Thanks a lot in advance for any reply.
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Old 11-12-2009   #18
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Having a Sumamrit lens shell would be awesome. The J-3 looks wimpy when compared with a Summarit.
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Old 11-12-2009   #19
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If I remember correctly the last time I open up my Summarit, that little ball click into a "hole" in the lens body? Try lifting the ring up see if you can figure out where to align the screws
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Old 11-12-2009   #20
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Sent a PM to Alex. Looking at my parts lens, the screws from the aperture ring go through slots to an inner ring. If that ring has moved, the screws will hang-up. Easiest solution seems to be to unscrew the front optics module to expose the mechanism.
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Old 11-12-2009   #21
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alexandre, it sounds like you are missing the spring that pushes the ball-bearing in to the detents.
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Old 11-13-2009   #22
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Thanks a lot everyone! For the spring, it will soon be ok, by disassembling the lens I managed to understand the clicking mechanism, and all will soon be working perfectly.

Haze... any advice on how to clean it?
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Old 11-13-2009   #23
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Have a look at this strangely circular shaped haze just behind the diaphragm... Do you think it is easily cleanable without damaging the lens? How? I am scared by the aperture blades around it...
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Old 11-13-2009   #24
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Not sure what's the best solution to lens cleaning, I've always just use a soft lens cloth to wipe thing. The blade are quite sturdy and as long as you dont exert great force on it they wont break
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Old 03-10-2010   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandre.mur View Post

Have a look at this strangely circular shaped haze just behind the diaphragm... Do you think it is easily cleanable without damaging the lens? How? I am scared by the aperture blades around it...
It probably is not easily cleanable. Mine wasn't. Per the aperture
blades, be scared, very scared. There are 15 of them and
5 of them have to be tucked under the leader, one by one.
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Old 03-12-2010   #26
Bob Corwin
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Gullible me. I just received a Summarit off the auction site
and thought a no-click aperture ring was normal. Does
anyone know the size of the ball bearing and length of the
spring ?
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Old 03-12-2010   #27
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Kiev-mount Jupiter-8M and Helios 103 do.
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Old 03-12-2010   #28
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As to cleaning the haze off old Leica lenses, the Leitz-approved way is to dismantle elements, hold at an angle and pour them with cleaning agent - no wiping.

For removing fungus, if I recall correctly Leitz suggested a mix of ammonia and hydrogen peroxide. I don't remember the ratio, look it up in the M2 repair manual that floats on the web.
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Old 08-04-2010   #29
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varjag, what cleaning agent is recommended for soft coated inner elements of old leica lenses to be used with the pouring method?
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Old 08-04-2010   #30
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Brian, do you do coating as well, any chaps to recommend ? I finally got a very nice keeper but kept thinking that perhaps a modern coat could reduce the flare-y effect ?

cheers!
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Old 02-25-2011   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandre.mur View Post


Have a look at this strangely circular shaped haze just behind the diaphragm... Do you think it is easily cleanable without damaging the lens? How? I am scared by the aperture blades around it...
Sorry for the crazy thread dig, for anyone else attempting it, those blades are quite easy to get back in once you get them the right way around.

I wouldn't be turned off getting them out in order to get behind them.

Question is, do you need to remove the blades to get behind it? I think you can probably clean it when the blades in place (or do you need to remove to them to get the glass out) ?
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service that lens
Old 03-26-2011   #32
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service that lens

The lens needs to be polished not just cleaned. You will find it hard to remove all the build up with common cleaners. We do a four step service on glass like that. Assures damage control and perfect in results. For proper service, this lens should be dismantled from the rear not the front.
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Old 07-05-2011   #33
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Thank you so much for posting the info on how to take the lens head off a Summarit.

I had just bought a very nice Midland Summarit 5cm lens, and it had a slightly rough focusing action.

So, I thought I'd help the lubrication and must have gotten cleaning fluid into the inner focusing sleeve, an ingenious sleeve bearing that allows the lens to not rotate with focusing. Well, at 1:30 am, it locked up solid. In fact, it felt like a shaft seizing up with dirt. I thought I had broken off a bit of debris and it had ground into the metal.

Solidly locked up.

So, I went to bed, and got this morning determined to take the lens head off, according to the info in MikeL's post.

Miraculously (and experimented first with a junker), I got the head off, and found the locked up sleeve. It wasn't debris or damage, just that the cleaning fluid had washed out the lubricant on the sleeve. I re-oiled it, and now the lens is as smooth as silk.

Man oh man, do I feel relieved this morning.


And I love my Midland Summarit, on my Midland IIIf.

Vick
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Old 07-31-2011   #34
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use a wire brush
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Old 02-20-2012   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeL View Post
Hi Brain,
After removing the three ring screws you'll be able to rotate the optics mount freely. Then, insert a pin in the hole and rotate the optics mount until the pin enters the hole in the focus mount ring. In the second photo you can see the whole in the focus mount ring that you'll need to engage.


Fantastic thread guys!
It saved me a lot of riddle cracking, to get into the Summarit last night.

I came over one issue though - the Summarit, I got looks like it has not been opened/ serviced since it's production in 1956.
The grease of the focus mount is dried out and hard, while the grease under the aperture ring looks in a similar condition, but still runs smooth, compared to the dry focus mount.

My issue is, that unfortunately, the rear group of the optical cell does not unscrew easily, once you have locked the focus ring to the inner focus mount sleeve with a pin.

The front element disassembles easily, but from there I am stuck.

I am very reluctant, to use force, just gripping the aperture ring and twisting the optical cell out, as I know about the delicate fine thread on these designs (interestingly the old pre war Hektor is built in a very, very similar design, just that the aperture ring unscrews to the front, not, the back, as it does with the Summarit).

Can anybody tip me off, how to unscrew the optical cell from the focus mount, to get to clean up the dried focus mount?

The lens is parked for now, would love, to use it in nice, fresh condition, as it indeed looks like a keeper with clean glass and nice chrome.
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Old 02-21-2012   #36
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You might try the following risky moves. The rear cell threads need to be loosened from the mount.

- try getting some naptha / lighter fluid into the threads and let it soak. The risk is that you will also get fluid into the focus mount, which may cause the focus mount to freeze. You can then free up the focus mount by dropping oil into the mount.

- you could try turning the aperture ring. Perhaps before doing that, find a replacement for the aperture ring screw, maybe a stronger one.

If I think of anything else, I'll post it.

Vick
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Old 02-21-2012   #37
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The three flat head screws behind the aperture ring need to be removed. It is what stops the lens head from rotating.

If you unscrewed the head with them in place, that is what prevented you from removing the entire head.

Here is a suggestion:
- screw the front cells back in but firmly.
- remove the 3 screws
- put the pin back in to prevent the focus mount from rotating.
- now try to remove the entire optical cell by unscrewing the lens head

Good luck
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Old 02-21-2012   #38
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Hey Vicko, thank you so much for your PM and the post here, but please let me clearly understand, which screws you mean (I can't see flat head screws behind the aperture ring.

There are from lens mount to filter ring:

1) Three flat head screws screwed through the lens mount (screw head sitting between camera and and lens). I had these remained untouched so far.

2) Two short thread flat head screws in the focus ring (only there, to cover the access holes for a pin, to lock the focus mount for disassembly). I removed these.

3) Three grub screws in the focus ring further towards the front of the lens (fixing the focus mount assembly to the main barrel). I removed these, so the focus mount can turn freely towards the optical cell, which in turn is still screwed fixed into the inner sleeve of the focus mount).

4) 2 + 1 screws in the aperture ring - one of them with big head, holding the spring and ball for the aperture clicks, two of them with longer pin, to key into the aperture mechanism. I removed all of them - the aperture ring moves freely on it's thread (but can't be removed without getting the whole optical cell out first, as it unscrews from it's thread towards the rear of the lens).

Do you mean the three flat head screws, that are in the lens mount (I have a 1956 LTM version of the Summarit)?
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Old 02-21-2012   #39
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Sounds like the thread that hold the rear half of the optical head to the focusing mount are tight. You may need to get some solvent into the thread and allow it to soak, and hopefully loosen the threads.

I personally don't like using the aperture ring to loosen a tight optical head. The screws that are used are small and aren't supposed to take a lot of force.


Quote:
Originally Posted by menos View Post
There are from lens mount to filter ring:

1) Three flat head screws screwed through the lens mount (screw head sitting between camera and and lens). I had these remained untouched so far.

***** these hold a tab that prevents the lens front from turning. You do not need to remove these to remove the lens optical head.

2) Two short thread flat head screws in the focus ring (only there, to cover the access holes for a pin, to lock the focus mount for disassembly). I removed these.

***** these cover the hole, for the pin to lock the focus mount.

3) Three grub screws in the focus ring further towards the front of the lens (fixing the focus mount assembly to the main barrel). I removed these, so the focus mount can turn freely towards the optical cell, which in turn is still screwed fixed into the inner sleeve of the focus mount).

***** these hold the optical head and prevent it from rotating when you turn the focus ring. I think you need to remove these to remove the optical head

4) 2 + 1 screws in the aperture ring - one of them with big head, holding the spring and ball for the aperture clicks, two of them with longer pin, to key into the aperture mechanism. I removed all of them - the aperture ring moves freely on it's thread (but can't be removed without getting the whole optical cell out first, as it unscrews from it's thread towards the rear of the lens).

***** these turn the aperture adjustment ring. You don't need to remove these to take out the optical head.

Do you mean the three flat head screws, that are in the lens mount (I have a 1956 LTM version of the Summarit)?

**** My lens is an LTM too. I referred to the three grub screws, but you have already removed them.
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Old 02-21-2012   #40
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Thanks Vick, so it looks like a little stubbornness is involved - I will take my time with this one and post back here, once it's all opened up.
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