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Optics Theory - This forum is aimed towards the TECHNICAL side of photographic OPTICS THEORY. There will be some overlap by camera/manufacturer, but this forum is for the heavy duty tech discussions. This is NOT the place to discuss a specific lens or lens line, do that in the appropriate forum. This is the forum to discuss optics or lenses in general, to learn about the tech behind the lenses and images. IF you have a question about a specific lens, post it in the forum about that type of camera, NOT HERE.

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From the 50mm Dual Range Summicron Samples Thread
Old 11-28-2007   #41
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Cool From the 50mm Dual Range Summicron Samples Thread

You've seen most of these before. I'm wondering. With all of the chatter about the v. 4 35mm Summicron being the "King of Bokeh", I reckon the 51.9 mm DR Summicron gives it a run for the title. All of these are at 1:2.0 or maybe 1:2.8. I hope the last one isn't too big for your monitor.









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Old 11-28-2007   #42
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where are the noctilux examples ?
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Old 11-28-2007   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NB23
Gabriel,
<snip>
You're always making it a point to make a point about how people are posting large images
<snip>
I don't see large images. They are all about 500x700 72dpi... which is very small.
You always make it a point to think that everybody has the same setup as your own.
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Old 11-28-2007   #44
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Technical note - following Dave's, Gabe's and Ned's comments (and suggested best practices for the forum) all the photos we post in-thread should be 800 px wide or less for readability. Also those of us with fast cable and DSL do tend to take it for granted, and forget that some folks are still on dial-up but that's a reality that's unlikely to change.

There are some really great images showing up here!

Rico - very cool rig, and great illustrative shots. The Aposonnar does seem to render near-field and far-field OOF differently (and nice Zeiss circles in the background highlights). Trivially this may be because the near field is shallow and the far field could go to infinity, but someone with real knowledge of optics may have a deeper explanation (surely including uncorrected spherical abberations, point sources and circles of confusion).

Gabriel - the the bokeh of 50mm Summilux shot with the digital p&s is pure cream. Love the irony as well. And again it looks to me that the background geometry in the healer and parking plot shots is smoothing what would be otherwise harsh bokeh.

Mauro & Chambrenoire - where have you guys been? Thanks for some really great contributions. Mauro I am challenged by the old lady in the church. The bokeh effect of the candelabras in the background is a little harsh, but not swirly - and really seems to push her toward the viewer's eye.

Roland, that's some scary Bokeh (Sonnar footballs?) in the Halloween shot. Maybe those are the shades of all our dead shots coming to haunt your jack-o-lantern.

Erik, that Canon 0.95 is such a bad lens it does not know how to put a circle around a background highlight. What's up with that? And that may be the smoothest background I have ever seen from the CV 50/1.5 - nice.

Wayne - that Summicron paints beautifully, except for the trees. So far from the shots in this thread it looks like it would be a good idea to avoid trees in the background when shooting any Summicron at wide apertures. Unless you like that sort of thing.

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Old 11-28-2007   #45
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OM 50/1.4 @ 1.4


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Old 11-28-2007   #46
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All taken with a Canon 85mm f1.2 shot at 1.2:





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Old 11-28-2007   #47
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Here come the $30 slobs (slobkeh?)...

Fed 50 3.5...



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Old 11-28-2007   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferider
Halloween bokeh, kind of ugly if you ask me:



Canon 50/1.2, probably Superia 400.

Roland.
NO! You didn't carve a Leica pumpkin! The attention to detail is frightening. I think I see a soft release!!
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Old 11-28-2007   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans voralberg
OM 50/1.4 @ 1.4

I like the framing/crop!
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Old 11-28-2007   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A.
Wow, Rico; that's a mighty cool lens. 200mm f/2 oh yeah.

Alright, since nobody's really caring for off-screen display and download-choking for others, I'll post some large photos too:
OK I'll stop quoting images, too! But the image that would have been in the above quote is very nice!


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Old 11-28-2007   #51
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Old 11-29-2007   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferider
Example of good or bad bokeh, Gabriel ? Always wondered about the Summitar.
It's special bokeh.

It's like mint chocolate: I can't stand it, but others love it. It's good if you love it, bad if you hate it.

I guess bokeh is like a box of chocolates...
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Old 11-29-2007   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayPA
I like the framing/crop!
Thanks it's original, no crop. It was a 1920s French villa in Vietnam :

@ Gabriel: I like the OOF of that summitar, alot. Shame about the highlight balls though, very weird and distracting
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Old 11-29-2007   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A.
It's special bokeh.

It's like mint chocolate: I can't stand it, but others love it. It's good if you love it, bad if you hate it.

I guess bokeh is like a box of chocolates...
I have to look at it After Eight then ...
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Old 11-29-2007   #55
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After Master Todd , some about the Summitar:

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Old 11-29-2007   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc-A.
After Master Tood , some about the Summitar:
Thats a shocking case of Bokeh donuts!!!
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Old 11-29-2007   #57
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Great pics guys. I assume if you don't post a comment, it means you like
the lens' bokeh ? Please comment ...

I like all Sonnars and Canon 50/1.5 in particular !
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Old 11-29-2007   #58
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Wow nemo, those shots look great. I think the Noctilux has the most apparent 3D effect I've seen -- your subject seem to pop out of my screen. I also quite enjoyed raid's shot with the 35/1.5. I've seen more and more of this lens recently, and it's all been good.
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Old 11-29-2007   #59
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Luxon 50mm/2.0 LTM @2.0 (originally for braun paxette):



Canon 85mm/1.9 @1.9:


The Luxon is difficult to find on sale, and it is maybe the only copy out there in LTM. The swirling effect gets more pronounced as I open up the aperture.

The Canon 85mm/1.9 is an underappreciated lens, in my opinion. People praise its more expensive cousin, the Canon 85mm/1.8.
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Old 11-29-2007   #60
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The bokeh of the 85/1.9 is very creamy. Maybe I am just lucky.
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Old 11-29-2007   #61
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The good--

Voigtlander Bessa II (6x9), 105/4.5 Heliar around f:8 (the separation between sharp and unsharp here is the signature characteristic of classic Heliars)--



The bad--

Soligor 500/8 compact mirror lens--



And the ugly--

Carl Zeiss Jena 1950s 58/2 Biotar, probably around f:8--

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Old 11-29-2007   #62
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I don't have a lot of bokeh shots, but I kinda like this one (Canon 50/1.8):



And this one, too (Canon 50/1.5):



Roland, is the beautiful shot above w/ your Canon 50/1.5 keeper?
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Old 11-29-2007   #63
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mamiya 6mf + 75mm lens. i really love the bokeh on this lens because it is smooooth. it renders scenes very well in 3d, but doesn't really call attention to its bokeh.




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Old 11-30-2007   #64
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Old 11-30-2007   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingley

Roland, is the beautiful shot above w/ your Canon 50/1.5 keeper?
Steve, I think that was taken with your lens, actually Thanks !
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Old 11-30-2007   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid
The bokeh of the 85/1.9 is very creamy. Maybe I am just lucky.
Raid------Is that the old Canon 85mm I sold you a few years back? If so, it's serving you well!

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Old 11-30-2007   #67
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enoch, those are really sharp, and I agree about the the background. P C, excellent framing and the delicate background works well in this context.

From last pre-asph Summilux 50/1.4 (exposure unrecorded):
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Old 11-30-2007   #68
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I really like the smoothness from the Mamiya lenses for the MF rangefinders.

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80/4 at f4





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Old 11-30-2007   #69
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That's it, I'm loading up the GW690 with Tmax 100 this weekend and seeing what that lens can do at f3.5. More MF shots!

Here's my contribution for today:

Zeiss Ikon, 75mm Summilux @ f2, HP5+ in Ilfosol-S

I really love this lens. This is my idea of perfect bokeh - abstract smooth dimensionality without distraction. I'm looking for shots I made with this lens that have point light sources in the background - haven't found any yet - may have to make some.

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Roland wants comments
Old 11-30-2007   #70
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Cool Roland wants comments

Out of focus trees/foliage:

Given what the earlier lenses do to foliage backgrounds (Summitar, Luxon 50/2.0 and my Nikkor 50/1.4), I'll take my 51.9mm DR Summicron or Canon 50/1.4 S.S.C. lenses any day.

Todd.Hanz could take a Holga, replace the "lens" with the bottom from a Coke bottle, load it with 50 year old Verichrome Pan, develop with vitamin pills, stale Starbuck's espresso and the Coke from the bottle he used for a lens, fix in vinegar and wash in pond water and still come up with great photographs.

Gabriel M.A. has great models/subjects for his portraits.

Great work everyone. Keep them coming.
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Old 11-30-2007   #71
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Ferider, lovely pic with that Canon
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Old 11-30-2007   #72
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Things I've learned from this thread:
1. We have some really good photographers here
2. There are some really nice images posted here
3. Take care when shooting wide open with trees, woods, forests, etc. as a background

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Old 11-30-2007   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayPA
Things I've learned from this thread:
1. We have some really good photographers here
2. There are some really nice images posted here
3. Take care when shooting wide open with trees, woods, forests, etc. as a background

Agree on all counts! In general, busy backgrounds will produce busy bokeh (duh!), but foliage will exacerbate 'bad' bokeh because you often find backlit areas, in relation to the foreground, just beyond the foliage.

I remember in another photo board reading complaints about a particular lens's awful bokeh, when in acutality no lens could have handled the foliage + back-lighting.
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Old 11-30-2007   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jja
Agree on all counts! In general, busy backgrounds will produce busy bokeh (duh!), but foliage will exacerbate 'bad' bokeh because you often find backlit areas, in relation to the foreground, just beyond the foliage.

I remember in another photo board reading complaints about a particular lens's awful bokeh, when in acutality no lens could have handled the foliage + back-lighting.
yup! and that's the point. I've seen highly regarded lenses produce some vertigo-inducing bokeh! Tough conditions for shooting wide open.
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Old 11-30-2007   #75
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I use light filtered through trees as my usual bokeh test, because there aren't many lenses that handle it well.

I'm getting out of RF territory, but bad bokeh is a real killer in bird photography, since foliage is the norm, not to mention highlights on rippling water, and backlighting isn't too unusual. These are with the Canon FD 600/4.5, which has pretty nice bokeh--





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Old 11-30-2007   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackinaw
Raid------Is that the old Canon 85mm I sold you a few years back? If so, it's serving you well!

Jim B.
Jim,
Yes, it is. I cannot bring myself to sell it even though I have many 85mm-90mm lenses. I love how portraits come out with this lens.
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Old 11-30-2007   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Goldfarb
I use light filtered through trees as my usual bokeh test, because there aren't many lenses that handle it well.

I'm getting out of RF territory, but bad bokeh is a real killer in bird photography, since foliage is the norm, not to mention highlights on rippling water, and backlighting isn't too unusual. These are with the Canon FD 600/4.5, which has pretty nice bokeh--
Ahh, birds ...

Which reminds me, my "Bokeh Queen" is the Zuiko 180/2.8, here
wide open:



Nothing beats a good fast long lens ....

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Old 11-30-2007   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayPA
Things I've learned from this thread:
1. We have some really good photographers here
2. There are some really nice images posted here
3. Take care when shooting wide open with trees, woods, forests, etc. as a background

4. If you want a smooth background, longer focal length and a larger format negative help.
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Old 11-30-2007   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeL
4. If you want a smooth background, longer focal length and a larger format negative help.
Ugly bokeh, for me: Tokina ATX 100-300/4 at 300 wide open:

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Old 11-30-2007   #80
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I said helps! I said helps!

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