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HOW TO: FED & Zorki Curtain tension.
Old 10-28-2006   #1
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HOW TO: FED & Zorki Curtain tension.

FED/Zorki shutter set-up.

This is what I do to set up the shutter curtains on FED and Zorki cameras. There are frequent questions posted about this subject, so I thought that it could be of value if I documented it.
I don't claim to be an expert on this, I've just developed this procedure over a couple of years. It has worked well for me when setting up my FED, Zorki and Zenit shutters, hopefully it will be of use to others.


........ Dave..

Last edited by fidget : 10-28-2006 at 11:16.
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Old 10-28-2006   #2
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It is common for these shutters to have been misadjusted at some stage, often over-tightened to overcome shutter problems related to debris in the path of the curtains or lack of appropriate lubrication as old grease dries out. The adjustments shown here will not help to clear problems caused by these or speed selection and release mechanism faults. You are advised to check that the curtains, their mechanisms and paths are in suitable condition and preferably serviced prior to making these adjustments.

These notes do not cover the slow speed mechanism, which deserves a tutorial of its own.



Checking the general operation of the shutter release and curtains.


This procedure checks that the shutter release and general curtain path are serviceable. Any problems seen here should be rectified before attempting to adjust the curtain tension.

Remove the camera lens and back. Looking through the film aperture from the rear, against a bright, uniform background (wall, window etc), cock and release the shutter repeatedly for all speeds from the fastest down to a 25th or 30th, depending on the camera. For each speed you should see the background at a consistent brightness across the film frame aperture.

If it starts (from the right) through a much darker area, or both curtains travel without a gap between them, then you may have a problem in the release mechanism.

If it ends in a much darker area, indicating that the second curtain has caught up with the first, be sure to check for debris and dried grease behind the removable top and bottom curtain shields and around the gears at the base of the large curtain drum, inside the shutter crate.

Check that the curtains work on the ”B” setting, failure of the second curtain to be released can be a problem in the selector/release mechanism or low spring tension on the second curtain. Press the shutter button as you might in normal use, both gentle, gradual presses and more enthusiastic jabs, it makes a difference to the mechanism.

If all is OK, carry on to the more detailed checks.....

Last edited by fidget : 08-22-2007 at 04:57.
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Old 10-28-2006   #3
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Adjusting the curtain tension.

The first image below shows the spring tension adjustment shafts and their locking nuts on a FED2 (the nuts are usually locked by small screws). This arrangement is typical for the cloth curtains of FED, Zorki, Zenit and perhaps a few others.
To adjust, remove the locking screws then release the locking nut whilst holding the shaft end with a screwdriver, as Image 2. Note that the shafts and nuts have left hand threads. It's a little fiddly but is easier than it looks when you've got the hang of it.

I use a block of firm foam with a slot cut in it to hold the camera whilst I work on it, makes jobs like this a little easier.

The shaft nearer the camera back tensions the first curtain. Make adjustments as required whilst holding the shaft at all times when not locked by the nut. I would not recommend that all tension is removed from the curtains as the ribbons can come off their guides and be creased or damaged if not seen and rectified, but if you feel the need, or do it accidentally, it shouldn't otherwise be a problem.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tension1.JPG (68.5 KB, 1296 views)
File Type: jpg tension2.JPG (91.6 KB, 1777 views)

Last edited by fidget : 08-22-2007 at 04:57.
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Old 10-28-2006   #4
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The curtains operate with their curtain ribbons overlapping and some shafts and drums loosely coupled. This tends to cause them to become synchronised to each other unless there is a large enough mismatch in spring tension. The different shutter speeds are obtained by setting different gaps between the curtains (done on the speed selector), which move at the same rate for every speed, therefore if one speed is correct, then the others will be too.
{The exception to this is 25th (or 30th), the flash sync speed and all slower speeds. The first curtain has made it all the way across the frame before the second is released, so it is possible that their speeds are different, but not enough to effect the overall exposure}

There are two elements to checking and adjusting the curtain spring tensions:

Adjusting one or the other so they travel across the aperture with a constant gap, (synchronised) and:

Adjusting both by a similar amount to regulate their rate of travel across the frame, to give an even exposure.

The following checks use a CRT monitor or TV as a means of “seeing” a sample of the path of the curtains. If we have a suitable shutter speed and screen refresh rate ( the rate at which the screen picture is built up from the top to the bottom, horizontal line by line), we will see stripes when looking through the operating curtains. What we see will vary according to the refresh rate of the screen and the shutter speed selected. A faster refresh rate will make the stripes for a given shutter speed appear more vertical. It's better to run slower as this shows up the movement of the curtains more clearly. Most fast screens can be turned down for these tests, look in monitor properties and choose a low rate which your monitor will support.

My screen was set to 60Hz for these tests, a lower rate would be even better. Alternatively, try your CRT TV, it may be quite suitable. A suitable rate is indicated when the strip you see is clearly leaning to the right.



Curtain synchronisation.

In this section we aim to check and adjust as necessary to ensure that the pair of curtains travel across the film frame aperture with a constant gap between them.

Hold the camera upright and level, again with the lens and back off, looking through the frame at a bright, relatively plain screen. Arrange your view to see most of the screen “square on” as viewing at an angle will cause distortions in what is seen. Release the shutter at various speeds between 1000th and 125th. You should see something like that shown in the images below.
Note how the width of the strip doubles as the next slower speed is used. Fire the shutter at 250th several times. You should see one or more bright stripes from the top to the bottom of the frame, slightly sloping from the right to the left. Each time the shutter is fired the stripe might be seen in a different position.

For the moment, concentrate on a stripe which occurs near the centre of the frame. Get an idea of it's shape. It should be fairly straight sided, tilted to the right and could have non-parallel sides like Image 2 or 3 below. The leading edge of the stripe (the left side, remember that this runs right to left) shows the track of the edge of the leading curtain, the trailing edge is the path of the second curtain.

Our aim here is to get the sides of the stripe to be parallel.
If the stripe is wider at the top than the bottom (image 2), then the second curtain is catching up to the first and so either the first curtain tension is too low or the second is too high. (extreme cases of this can lead to “capping” where the second curtain actually closes on the first before their travel is completed, although this is usually due to impediments to free movement).
Similarly, if the strip is narrower at the top (image 3) then the first curtain is pulling away from the second, indicating either an over-tensioned first or an under-tensioned second curtain. (Try this at some other speeds, you should see a similar shape to the stripe, although the slower speeds give wider stripes and the differences become more difficult to see).

You could adjust one of the curtains now if you have a feel for which one you want to re-tension, or you could read through the next section of the curtain checks, which may help you to choose which curtain to adjust. Either way it's better that the curtains are in sync before adjustments are made to regulate the speed of the curtains as a pair.

When running correctly, we should see one or more stripes that are similar to that in the last image below where the important feature is its parallel sides.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cs1.jpg (7.3 KB, 449 views)
File Type: jpg cs2.jpg (9.4 KB, 352 views)
File Type: jpg cs3.jpg (9.0 KB, 299 views)
File Type: jpg cs4.jpg (4.7 KB, 312 views)

Last edited by fidget : 08-22-2007 at 04:59.
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Old 10-28-2006   #5
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Curtain speed.

In this section the rate of travel of the pair of curtains across the frame is checked and regulated.

Again at a 250th (or a speed that suits you) fire the shutter repeatedly and get an idea of the width of the stripe near the left hand side of the frame (you may see two or even more if your screen has a high refresh rate). Compare the width of this to a stripe seen towards the right (it's best to compare those which occur on the same release if you have the patience). You might see something like that in Image 1 below. Where the left stripe is noticeably sloped more to the right and/or is narrower than the right, indicating that the curtain pair is accelerating and thus one (if they've not been synchronised yet) or both are over-tensioned. The converse applies when the left stripe is more vertical and/or wider.
If the curtain synchronisation is yet to be set up, this will indicate whether to increase the tension of one {if the left stripe is wider} or decrease the tension of the other {if the left stripe is narrower}.
The tension of both curtains is adjusted to get the stripes the same width and with the same slope on either side of the frame. Adjustment of both curtains is best done gently, make small changes, maybe half or quarter turn at a time. After adjustment check that the curtains remain synchronised as large changes in both can upset this setting. If tension has been released, check that the second curtain is capable of making its solo trip across the frame at 25th and “B”.

When you've finished, you might see something like that in Image 2, a constant gap traveling at a constant speed across the aperture, even exposure!

This can be a fiddly and sometimes tedious process and it may be that the curtains cannot be set up to perfection, but hopefully you will be able to get it quite close.

{Edit to text and Image 1 to add detail}
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sp1.jpg (7.5 KB, 252 views)
File Type: jpg sp2.jpg (7.1 KB, 205 views)

Last edited by fidget : 11-11-2006 at 09:06.
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Old 10-28-2006   #6
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Additional notes.


Adjustment of the top and bottom curtain shields.

These are the shields which can be seen when looking in through the open lens mount. They not only help trap light getting round the curtains, but have one or two other uses which may not be obvious.
When cocking the shutter, the laths of the curtains are pulled back in the channel provided by the shields. It is easy (I've missed it a couple of times already) to allow the shields to give too much clearance for the laths, leading to leaks onto the film as the laths are able to separate on their way across the frame. As you cock the shutter, notice how the curtain laths are almost non-overlapping as they start off, and gradually overlap more during the wind. The starting point of the curtains is the likely point of leakage.
(Test for this by cocking with a bright light shining into the lens mount whilst looking at the rear of the curtains). Clearly, this will only give problems if light is on the curtains as you wind, so may look like an intermittent problem.
Set up the clearance to give a close fit for the pair of laths.
I notice that later FEDs have the lath side of the shield coated with a velvet type of material, this could help to hold the laths together more effectively as they are wound.
Edit.....Nov 07


Note that no checks have been made for the actual effective shutter speed, rather we have made the mechanics run to give an even exposure. You might understand that increasing or decreasing the tension to change the shutter speeds (or noise) is likely to simply create uneven exposure as the gap moves across the frame. How much leeway there is in this is an attribute of that particular camera.

When looking at a bright even scene for the initial shutter release checks, you may see odd patterns if the scene is lit by flourescent lighting.

Remember that the shape of the lens mount will begin to effect the stripes, as when viewing at the extremes of the aperture it shields your view, cutting them off at the top and bottom.

Remember that the curtains move from the right to the left as we are looking through the back.
Remember that the curtain tension shafts have a left hand thread.

EDIT: Some concerns have been raised regarding possible damage to the RF mechanism of the Zorki 5 when tripping the shutter without a lens fitted. Some caution should be used when running one of these At least a sensible precaution would be to hold the rf cam arm back into the body as if a lens were fitted.

Last edited by fidget : 07-08-2008 at 04:21. Reason: Update
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Old 10-28-2006   #7
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Can we have this stickied?
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Old 10-28-2006   #8
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Thumbs up

Yeah, great job here Dave. I've done this operation several times and this is good info for every FSU junkie.
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Old 11-01-2006   #9
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Thanks for the comments guys, seems that there may not be many who would find this of use.
Should this have been posted in a repair forum or such?
(shameless bump coming.......)

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Old 11-01-2006   #10
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IMHO, most folks looking for FSU maint/adj/help/info come right here to the FSU forum. With two forums dedicated [mostly] to Barnack-esque LTMs and their cousins, I can't believe there aren't many who use this info. In the 18 mo. I've been hanging out here, I've seen questions about this process come up about a gazillion times... no wait, a BA-zillion... no... which is more?

Again, two thumbs up, Dave. Many thanks. I added it to my subscribed threads.
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Old 11-01-2006   #11
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All good stuff , Be nice if a mod could sticky it so that its easier to find .



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Old 11-11-2006   #12
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I edited the second part of the instructions to clarify some detail.
The setting up of the "rate of travel" across the film plane is presented here in a simple form. I will look at a further addition which expands upon this adjustment.
BTW I've just spent an evening setting up another FED2. This just would not give stable and repeatable results, even though it is fully serviced and otherwise (as far as i can see) fault free. I will run some film through it to see if this shows on photos in practical use.

Dave..
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Old 11-14-2006   #13
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Can this be explained?

Each picture has an exposure gradient and is overexposed at the side of low index numbers, but has normal exposure at the other side. Isn't that strange?

This is how I understand the shutter works as a sequence of events:
- release button pushed
- first curtain starts it's movement = exposure starts!
- exposure speed button starts to spin and after 1/60sec (e.g.) it 'hits' the release for the second curtain
- second curtain starts it's movement (should be ~at the same speed of the first curtain) = exposure stops!
- first curtain is completely open
- second curtain is completely closed

If the second curtain runs faster than the first, the part of the film that's exposed last will be underexposed. If the second curtain runs slower than the first, the part of the film that's exposed last will be overexposed.

But the part of the film that's exposed first (which is the part at the lower index numbers side), should always be properly exposed, unless there's something wrong with the exposure speed timer itself. But in that case, the whole picture will be over/underexposed.

Can someone explain?

Groeten,

Vic

top view (Zorki 1):

( )____/( )

>> film movement

.. 4 3 2 1 film index

<< shutter movement
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Old 11-14-2006   #14
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Hi Vic, I think that your explanation of the sequence of events in the chain is good. I agree with your understanding of the exposure across the frame. I'm not sure if I should see attachments in your post (I can't) and I'm not sure what would need to be explained, as you've done such a good job.
Only the point about the exposure always starting as the right one, as you say, is subject to the photogs settings of speed and aperture and the mechanics of the camera not being faulty. So, if you see an exposure which starts incorrectly but ends correctly, this suggests that the initial operator chosen settings were not appropriate for the scene and/or camera/film/process. This could be be for many reasons, only one of which is that the actual shutter speed of the camera is subject to a surprising variation between cameras.
.
So, I don't think that it is strange, rather one of several indicators of the same problem. The problem you see is typical of the over-tight shutter springs.

Dave..

Last edited by fidget : 11-23-2006 at 01:17.
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Old 11-14-2006   #15
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Thank you, Dave. This is tremendously helpful. I spent a little time this evening checking the speeds on my Zorki 3M and Zorki 1D (or so I believe it to be, but that's another story... I've dubbed it the Reidski ). I cleaned out the Reidski's shutter, but your tutorial arrives just as I'm about to leap into real adjustment.
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Old 01-12-2007   #16
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As a proud receipient of Fidgets(Dave) Technological genius! My Fed 2 runs as smooth as a Singer sewing machine. No more stuck or dragging shutter curtains for me! From not even knowing anything about what a tension screw was to becoming a Oleg jr. my Fed is as smooth as hot butter. Just follow Daves simple instructions and that fsu will have a feel like it just rolled out of the KMZ factory.
Serously though, the info with pics were a big help and I recommend this service for your fsu and save alot of bucks. I was almost ready to ship this thing off, I'm glad I didn't. Thanks Dave!


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Excellent advice
Old 03-29-2007   #17
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Excellent advice

Excellent advice.

Ive resurrected many a "dead" FSU camera over the years this way, and rarely had a complete failure.

I thought it was "my little secret"!

Now everybody knows I wont be able to get all those cheap FSU cameras at fairs anymore...which I tell the vendor are no-good because they dont work!
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Old 06-09-2007   #18
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Working on a recently arrived Fed-2c [mushroom knob]:

With fidget's post of some months ago... along with a bit of support from Spyderman,
I backed off curtain tension about 1/4 turn on the front shaft, or Curtain 2. To get the balanced images with the camera held near my PC monitor, against a blank screen in Notepad... I had to tighten up a tad on Curtain 2, and fiddle with the shaft on rear
Curtain 1, about 1/8 turn this way/that way.

The net result:
Shutter speeds are quieter, and winding, already smooth, is even softer. Now it's time for a test roll. Cheers, mike
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Old 08-05-2007   #19
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Ive been (and still I am) a fan of the Contax/Kiev family however...
One day I was tempted by a nice Zorki 1 (d or e) and thought that there should be a very good reason why too many people love this Barnack descendant cameras.
Then I decided to buy it and try it.
Fortunately the two Zorkis are OK, but this info means gold if something wrong happens.
Thanks for posting such detailed info to save those babies!
Cheers
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Old 08-05-2007   #20
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Invaluable information, should it ever be needed.
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Old 11-14-2007   #21
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Hi, you have a problem which I think that i have seen on my FSU cameras several times.
I hope this helps, see thread....
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ad.php?t=49845
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Old 07-08-2008   #22
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Just recently I have been hit by minor GAS and have acquired a few M42 cloth shuttered SLR bodies. Zenit, Fujica ST605, ST705, Cosina CSR, CSM (there may be more on the way!)
The preliminary checks that are described at the beginning of this tutorial are relevant to these shutters as well, although the mechanics of adjustment is obviously not the same.

Performing these simple checks has shown a sticking 2nd shutter curtain on one and fairly serious fade as the curtains slow whilst travelling. Seeing these has helped to avoid the disappointment that the first test films would have brought. It is, of course, no surprise that 30-odd year old SLR bodies may need a service to rectify these points...
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Old 12-28-2008   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitxu View Post
Check that the curtains work on the B setting, failure of the second curtain to be released can be a problem in the selector/release mechanism or low spring tension on the second curtain. Press the shutter button as you might in normal use, both gentle, gradual presses and more enthusiastic jabs, it makes a difference to the mechanism.

If all is OK, carry on to the more detailed checks.....

Hi fidjet, I've got a problem of this sort (release mechanism). Could you read my thread "lens de-centered" and tell me what you think. Thanks, Pitxu.[/quote]


I just got a FED 2 and once in awhile the 2nd shutter curtain will release itself and start its travel at the same time as the first, producing no gap. This is most pronounced on bulb, but it will also happen occasionally at 1/25 as well. Is due to the selector/release mechanism on the second curtain ?

The camera came with a lot of debris in the rails and the shutter dragged, spraying a cleaning solution seemed to cleared the shutter from dragging, except then this popped up.
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Old 12-29-2008   #24
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Given that it's all clean and lubed, the part of the release mechanism which traps the second curtain isn't doing its thing. This is usually because the shaft which carries the crescent shaped catch is sticking (not cleaned or lubed properly). The shaft works on a very fine spring in two dimensions so is easily upset.

This question would probably be better posted in the FSU section as a new thread. More members will chip in with help.

This has been covered recently and is in a thread with some good detail. I will try to search it out.
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Don't have a CRT monitor or TV, what's the alternative?
Old 12-30-2008   #25
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Don't have a CRT monitor or TV, what's the alternative?

Hi,

My curtains need adjusting but this technique relies on a CRT monitor or TV. I have neither, all the monitors and TV's in my house are flat screen. I'll probably venture over to my parents as they aren't quite as up to date .

Is there an alternative way of checking without a CRT?

Regards,
Lee
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Old 12-30-2008   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fidget View Post
Just recently I have been hit by minor GAS and have acquired a few M42 cloth shuttered SLR bodies. Zenit, Fujica ST605, ST705, Cosina CSR, CSM (there may be more on the way!)
The preliminary checks that are described at the beginning of this tutorial are relevant to these shutters as well, although the mechanics of adjustment is obviously not the same.

Performing these simple checks has shown a sticking 2nd shutter curtain on one and fairly serious fade as the curtains slow whilst travelling. Seeing these has helped to avoid the disappointment that the first test films would have brought. It is, of course, no surprise that 30-odd year old SLR bodies may need a service to rectify these points...
Look forward to a tutorial on the Fujica SLR's (if needed). My ST 801 and 901 cameras are fine so far, but one never knows. Fujica made cameras apparently to a pretty high standard. I think they intended to break into the pro market, but didn't market well as such. By the time they decided on a bayonet mount, I don't think they had kept up with the quality control. Maybe they just moved too fast. Their AX3 seems to have held up well though.
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Old 12-30-2008   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oftheherd View Post
Look forward to a tutorial on the Fujica SLR's (if needed). My ST 801 and 901 cameras are fine so far, but one never knows. Fujica made cameras apparently to a pretty high standard. I think they intended to break into the pro market, but didn't market well as such. By the time they decided on a bayonet mount, I don't think they had kept up with the quality control. Maybe they just moved too fast. Their AX3 seems to have held up well though.
Yes, I too would like to see instructions on how to service these and solve elementary problems. I just love the feel of the Fujicas. A quick reccy under the base cover really put me off having a go.
Now my 35mm gear repair efforts are going on hold for a year whilst I get some use out of the gear (MF mainly) that does work. Got to get back on track, piccies not cameras.....
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Old 12-30-2008   #28
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Originally Posted by mynameislee2 View Post
Hi,

My curtains need adjusting but this technique relies on a CRT monitor or TV. I have neither, all the monitors and TV's in my house are flat screen. I'll probably venture over to my parents as they aren't quite as up to date .

Is there an alternative way of checking without a CRT?

Regards,
Lee
Hi Lee,
I guess that at one time everyone had access to a scanning screen of some description. Perhaps there are other ways of doing this. A trip to yesterworld may be in order....good luck...
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Old 12-31-2008   #29
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Hi Leea,

Quote:
Originally Posted by mynameislee2 View Post
My curtains need adjusting but this technique relies on a CRT monitor or TV. I have neither, all the monitors and TV's in my house are flat screen. I'll probably venture over to my parents as they aren't quite as up to date . Is there an alternative way of checking without a CRT?
The slower speeds (1/30 to 1/125) can be adjusted using a turntable using this method, but having a turntable around is also somewhat unusual nowadays. The really slow speeds (1/30 and slower) can be tested using a digital camera that can record video as per this thread (but it's unreliable for 1/30, especially if you don't know the exact frame rate of your camera).

The main point of the TV and the turntable is to provide fast-moving objects with a clearly defined speed. As long as you have something like that at home and know the numeric values, you can improvise similar testing methods yourself, but it takes some being comfortable with numbers.

Alternatively, you might build a shutter speed tester yourself. There's a lot of articles on the Web that describe how to build one - ranging from the simple to the intermediate and the elaborate. We've also had a couple of threads here at RFF, including a fairly detailed one.

Philipp
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Old 01-08-2009   #30
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Given that it's all clean and lubed, the part of the release mechanism which traps the second curtain isn't doing its thing. This is usually because the shaft which carries the crescent shaped catch is sticking (not cleaned or lubed properly). The shaft works on a very fine spring in two dimensions so is easily upset.

This question would probably be better posted in the FSU section as a new thread. More members will chip in with help.

This has been covered recently and is in a thread with some good detail. I will try to search it out.
I sprayed a cleaning solution on the bottom protruding rod and that seemed that have fixed the issue. It wasn't popping out all the way.
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Old 12-29-2009   #31
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My FED-2's shutter is running fast, fidget, leading to under-exposure. I plan to rotate both nuts a half turn at a time. Do I rotate them clock-wise?
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Old 12-29-2009   #32
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The first thing you to is remove the lock screw from the nut. You have to be careful when making shutter speed adjustments, if you loosen the lock nut without using a screw driver to hold the spindle screw in place, it may turn fully out, and you'll completely lose shutter tension.

First, set the screwdriver in the spindle screw, and then turn the lock nut slightly counter-clockwise (if I remember right). Turn the spindle screw in the same direction to decrease tension, then, using the screwdriver to keep the spindle screw in place, tighten the lock nut and replace the lock screw.

You should try to adjust only the leading curtain, and just enough to bring it down to speed. If you get any capping, then reduce the tension to the following curtain as well.

Last edited by Frontman : 12-29-2009 at 23:31.
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Old 12-30-2009   #33
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Thank you, Frontman. I first turned the nuts clockwise a half turn each. That did not seem enough, so I turned them another full turn each. That seemed to be too much, so I went back a half turn each. The speeds seem better now, when seen against my monitor's screen, but I shan't know if they are right until I do tests on film.
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Old 01-09-2010   #34
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Not good enough -- still getting underexposure. So I exposed several frames of the last roll with aperture set to meter recommendation for 1/100 sec. but with shutter at 1/50 sec. Perfect. I shall stick with this and not tinker more.

Something I do not understand. I did a series of exposures of a blank wall, starting at 1/500 and f/2 and going down to 1/50 and f/5.6. I did not get the same negative density: the fastest speeds were underexposed. This means that the speeds are not linear. Why this should happen with a shutter whose curtains should move at a constant speed, with only slit width varying, is beyond me.
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Old 01-13-2010   #35
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I didn't notice these new posts for a few weeks!

It's sometimes seen when testing shutter performance that the gap can be irregular, having a slightly different gap over a few actuations at the same speed. I had put this down to a slightly poor setup on the release mechanism, but never really chased "why".

The actual shutter speeds are notoriously approximate, but I too would expect that their progression would be fairly linear, most certainly between two adjacent speeds.

A few on this forum have used electronic shutter testers. It would be interesting to learn how they found the speed progression.

Dave
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Old 06-20-2010   #36
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Thank you for this precious info! I managed to tighten my Zorki 4K's second curtain, as it was really sticking with slow speeds (actually sometimes even with 1/30s which I now understand not being a slow speed).

Unfortunately I don't have a CRT monitor or TV at home so will have to check synchronisation at work later, however, I have encountered another problem: after tightening the second curtain axle by two full turns everything else seems to work fine, except now 1/30s speed occasionally acts like B ... anyone got any idea what's going on? Do I have to pull it completely apart for lubrication (not looking forward to that!)?
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Old 06-20-2010   #37
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Thank you for this precious info! I managed to tighten my Zorki 4K's second curtain, as it was really sticking with slow speeds (actually sometimes even with 1/30s which I now understand not being a slow speed).

Unfortunately I don't have a CRT monitor or TV at home so will have to check synchronisation at work later, however, I have encountered another problem: after tightening the second curtain axle by two full turns everything else seems to work fine, except now 1/30s speed occasionally acts like B ... anyone got any idea what's going on? Do I have to pull it completely apart for lubrication (not looking forward to that!)?
To answer your post in two parts:
First, two turns is a lot to have to add to make the second curtain close, almost certainly it suggests a proper CLA is needed. The "fix" is likely to be temporary I'm afraid. A second common cause for some speeds hanging is the spring that tensions that catch, it can put too much pressure on. This is more common at higher speeds though.

Second, why 1/30th acts like B. The second curtain is released by a catch, the crescent-shaped arm partially around the shutter speed selector. That catch is released by one of two things, either the first curtain reaching the appropriate position or by the shutter button being released. If it fails to get released by the proper mechanism (in this case the end of the first curtain's travel) then that adds more weight to the need of a proper CLA.

If you fancy braving it yourself, I wrote a thread specifically on the Zorki 4/4k which is stickied on this sub-forum,
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Old 06-20-2010   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fidget View Post
It's sometimes seen when testing shutter performance that the gap can be irregular, having a slightly different gap over a few actuations at the same speed. I had put this down to a slightly poor setup on the release mechanism, but never really chased "why".

The actual shutter speeds are notoriously approximate, but I too would expect that their progression would be fairly linear, most certainly between two adjacent speeds.
Fidget,

I can shed some light on possible explanations. First, as I'm sure you know, the curtains are not in any way linked and their speeds are not guaranteed to be the same. Second, on some models there is no positive latch for the cocking mechanism, therefore it's possible to cock it slightly short of 100% of the way, leaving a slightly variable exposure. Thirdly, on models with slow speeds I find that 1/15th is often inconsistent, this being due to how critical it is for the slow-speed mechanism to be wound to a small and *exact* extent, which the design doesn't really lend itself to. When using 1/15, I tend to set 1/8 then back off to 1/15. If re-cocking at 1/15 I'll wind it absolutely and very firmly to the stop.
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Old 06-20-2010   #39
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Originally Posted by wolves3012 View Post
To answer your post in two parts:
First, two turns is a lot to have to add to make the second curtain close, almost certainly it suggests a proper CLA is needed. The "fix" is likely to be temporary I'm afraid. A second common cause for some speeds hanging is the spring that tensions that catch, it can put too much pressure on. This is more common at higher speeds though.

Second, why 1/30th acts like B. The second curtain is released by a catch, the crescent-shaped arm partially around the shutter speed selector. That catch is released by one of two things, either the first curtain reaching the appropriate position or by the shutter button being released. If it fails to get released by the proper mechanism (in this case the end of the first curtain's travel) then that adds more weight to the need of a proper CLA.

If you fancy braving it yourself, I wrote a thread specifically on the Zorki 4/4k which is stickied on this sub-forum,
Thank you very much for the info. Looks like I'm going to have to try to find a clear slot of few hours to have a proper look inside the camera. Don't get me wrong, I love tinkering with cameras - just have a pretty demanding 6 month old boy in my hands so finding time to tinker is a challenge!
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Old 06-29-2010   #40
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Hi!

I'm looking for an answer to my Fed 5b .

I have this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U4doaR5JGo

What happens is that in B mode, the curtain doesn't stay.

I have tried to adjust the speed of the curtains, but doesn't work.

All other speeds i think they are working good.

Only B mode and 30 i think they are wrong.

Hope that you have an idea!

David
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