Old 11-14-2016   #41
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Not sure if it is related to the M10 rumors but I noticed in the last few days by my dealer in the pre-owned site there are more M 240 or P-P 240 type for sales...4.000/4.500 EUR...
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Old 11-14-2016   #42
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Originally Posted by CameraQuest View Post
Its great to see Leica following RFF's lead and finally getting back to naming their M cameras properly LOL
...
Except by any realistic naming in the old number system, this one should be M12 (M10=M/M-P240/MM246, M11=M/M-D262, etc).

It is good to see new products appearing, as always.

G
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Old 11-14-2016   #43
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The M10 is obviously a 35mm camera. The change to the lens mount is purely a trick of the eye.
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Old 11-14-2016   #44
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The M10 is obviously a 35mm camera. The change to the lens mount is purely a trick of the eye.
What are you trying to say?
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Old 12-08-2016   #45
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Old 12-08-2016   #46
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I'll get the "M10" in three years time when it's value has plummeted because everyone will be raving about the upcoming "M11"
;p
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Old 12-15-2016   #47
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Old 12-15-2016   #48
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sweet. size of analog m though which one?
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Old 12-15-2016   #49
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Since all the film Ms are the same size with the exception of M5 and M7 and the M7 is barely larger than the rest, I'd say any of them.
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Old 12-15-2016   #50
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Originally Posted by Chubberino View Post
sweet. size of analog m though which one?
M5, of course!

I'd also be interested to see if they manage to keep the weight reasonable. I thought the M240 was a bit heaftier than I would have liked.
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Old 12-15-2016   #51
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The M262 is lighter than the M240? and if they managed to size it down then maybe lighter than the 262?
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Old 12-15-2016   #52
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The M262 is lighter than the M240? and if they managed to size it down then maybe lighter than the 262?
Yeah, the M262 feels a lot better than the M240. The M10 may or may not be lighter. It depends on the metal they decide to use on the top plate. The 262 has an aluminum top plate which makes it much lighter than the brass M240.
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Old 12-15-2016   #53
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sweet. size of analog m though which one?
I think when this is said, it is going to be a typical M, not a monster like the M5...
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Old 12-15-2016   #54
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Funny thing is I only have a problem with the size of the M when I compare it to something like an M3. But when I compare it to something tacky like a Nikon DF it feels awesome.
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Old 12-15-2016   #55
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Will it take a Leicavit ;-)
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Old 12-15-2016   #56
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Funny thing is I only have a problem with the size of the M when I compare it to something like an M3. But when I compare it to something tacky like a Nikon DF it feels awesome.
Well I think I will just keep my 'tacky' Df
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Old 12-16-2016   #57
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Since all the film Ms are the same size with the exception of M5 and M7 and the M7 is barely larger than the rest, I'd say any of them.
.....M6TTL?
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Old 12-16-2016   #58
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i predict M6ttl/M7 size, which would be fine imo.
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Old 12-16-2016   #59
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They had a full size "sensor" in the Barnacks, well, one can dream.

Does the rumoured spec. look like a leap forward or a small step to you? I suppose it depends on where you are looking from, from my M8, which is progressively failing and I suspect would be un-economic to repair even if parts were available, given the size rumours it looks like time to make a leap.
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Old 12-16-2016   #60
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Will it take a Leicavit ;-)
No but you can make your own batteries in old IXMOO canisters...
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Maestro II ?
Old 12-16-2016   #61
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Maestro II ?

Thanks for the specs link.

Besides the thinner body/flange length trade-off. A significant difference could be switching to the MAESTRO II in-camera processing engine.
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Old 12-16-2016   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
Except by any realistic naming in the old number system, this one should be M12 (M10=M/M-P240/MM246, M11=M/M-D262, etc).

It is good to see new products appearing, as always.

G
I wonder if "M10" is a nod to 10 years of digital Ms. Whatever it's called, and why, the camera sounds wonderful.

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Old 12-16-2016   #63
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No video, only three buttons on the back, M7 size...

http://leicarumors.com/2016/12/15/mo...-m7-size.aspx/
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Old 12-16-2016   #64
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I would not spend a single EUR more for a camera body that is slimmer. So the basic question is, what can this camera do better than a M240?
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Old 12-16-2016   #65
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I would not spend a single EUR more for a camera body that is slimmer. So the basic question is, what can this camera do better than a M240?
Many people have wanted a digital Leica the size of a M. They will get it now. I guess it wasn't made for you or I, but this will sell even if it is not an improvement in "IQ" vs. other Ms.
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Old 12-16-2016   #66
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I mean, it's not like it's a rehoused M240. It's thinner, it will have a better sensor, supposedly better VF, probably a higher buffer, etc. I always look at stuff as having "generational upgrades." Everything is going to be slightly better in the new model, generally speaking.
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Old 12-16-2016   #67
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... just like getting a new computer.
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Old 12-16-2016   #68
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... just like getting a new computer.
Pretty much...
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Old 12-16-2016   #69
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It's thinner, it will have a better sensor, supposedly better VF, probably a higher buffer,
lower price ...
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Old 12-16-2016   #70
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Ah, the gold ol' lower priced Leica dream...
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Old 12-16-2016   #71
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Ah, the gold ol' lower priced Leica dream...
Oh how true!
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Old 12-16-2016   #72
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I'm doubting the "thin as an analog M"... The body still looks fairly thick, surely dependent on the battery and SD card slot. That front flange doesn't look more than about 2mm thicker than on the M240/262. The rear screen may have been slimmed a mm or so too, but that still doesn't get it to M6-skinny! But that's ok with me.
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Old 12-16-2016   #73
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Why would the viewfinder stick out like that ?
Because it is designed for current thickness bodies and they don`t want to change it.

Or it is to accommodate electronic RF.
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Old 12-17-2016   #74
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I mean, it's not like it's a rehoused M240.
...
But it is!

The 'housing' differences may be very attractive to some people.

But the most important component - the sensor technology is identical.

The in-camera image rendering engine is the Maestro II system used in other Leica products. How this change is accepted by the digital M community remains to be seen.

IMHO it's non issue. Some will like it. Some will say there's no practical difference. And some will decide the original M240/M262 image engine is better.
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Old 12-17-2016   #76
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A bit of a non-sequitur, I am glad everyone here is generally courteous and respectful when discussing the new M10. The comments on LR has been atrocious, full of name-calling and insults, hate and disdain. Okay, *rant over* and Happy Holidays (I know what Ill be asking for Christmas *next* year!).
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Old 12-17-2016   #77
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But the most important component - the sensor technology is identical.
?

I was under the impression it would most likely have the Q's sensor.

Stephen
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My Error
Old 12-18-2016   #78
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My Error

Then I stand corrected. Thanks for setting the record straight.

This is a much greater change than I realized. In terms of DC-signal noise levels the Q's data stream out performs the M240/262... except at ISO 200 . And the M240/262 has better analog dynamic range at ISO 200. Something odd is going on with the Q at ISO 200 (??).

Here's a comparison of the two sensors' dynamic range vs ISO.

Here's data for their read noise vs ISO with no light present (a measure of the photo sites' signal-to-noise ratio independent of ISO signal amplification after the shutter closes.

And, noise vs ISO results in raw-file digital numbers (a measure of noise added by ISO signal amplification in between photo sites and the ADC input).

I would rather have the Q sensor if the only consideration for IQ was their data streams' signal-to-noise ratios. Of course, there are other technical factors that influence IQ... mainly the IR filter layer's and color-filter array's characteristics.

Equally important are aesthetic and other subject differences when actually using different camera bodies.

PS These data are from statistical analyses of un-rendered raw file data.
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Old 12-19-2016   #79
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?

I was under the impression it would most likely have the Q's sensor.

Stephen
It is not going to have the sensor from the Q
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Old 12-19-2016   #80
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M10 is going to be a big hit, you watch.

But they are well behind the latest sensors. Genius would be to follow the M10 with "modern" body, new from the ground up with the latest Sony BSI 42 mp, 4K as the "interchangeable" Q. Such a camera could easily have AF for M lenses as well. Techart has already shown this works quite well on the Sonys.

The real Leica secret is that unlike all other Digital camera makers, they put the IR cut in the base coverglass and leave out the sensor stack altogether. Canikon and Sony use clear hard glass in the coverglass and put the IR cut in the stack. RF wides don't like that. But there is nothing stopping anyone from doing exactly the same thing to a Sony BSI sensor and like magic it would shoot all M glass potentially BETTER than M240, since there are newer slimmer IR cuts which get even closer to film in how sharp rays angles are handled.

Of course we all know no way in hell Leica is buying Sony sensors, but maybe a strong kick in the Panasonic butt could result in something similar.

Not just a interchangeable Q but a state of the art field platform for M, smaller and lighter than the SL with all modern options included, even "eye-AF", which is quite a feature if you try it sometime.

Here you can see M/LTM glass AFing great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOgpf09y44M
Now of course, the last thing most M10 buyers want is AF. The optical RF is so sweet. But in the wider market and for working pros this would be huge, and tied to 4k, 42mp great high ISO....Leica would be at the leading edge of the whole industry.

But that would be alot of work
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