M10 images leak
Old 11-11-2016   #1
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M10 images leak

It looks like the M10 body is thinner and the lens flange extended.



http://leicarumors.com/2016/11/11/th...0-camera.aspx/

Dial in the same position as the film rewind is also a nice touch
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Old 11-11-2016   #2
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Maybe I'm feeling too optimistic but the thickness somehow seems... less thick!
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Old 11-11-2016   #3
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The FCC ID is for: Leica Camera AG Medium-format digital SLR camera

So.... huh???

Letters filed with the FCC:

https://fccid.io/document.php?id=3193276
https://fccid.io/document.php?id=3193277
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Old 11-11-2016   #4
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Note the thickness of the lens flange mount. It appears Leica may have traded off extending the lens mount for a thinner body.
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Old 11-11-2016   #5
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And what's the dial above the VF?
The M10 is obviously a wi-fi enabled film camera, the only logical explanation...

The new sensor from CMOSIS is larger that full frame, only by a few mm in height, but that would be "medium format".
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Old 11-11-2016   #6
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Things just got interesting again.
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Old 11-11-2016   #7
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What did they take those images with a gopro? They look so outa wack!
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Old 11-11-2016   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelwj View Post
The new sensor from CMOSIS is larger that full frame, only by a few mm in height, but that would be "medium format".
But an SLR???
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Old 11-11-2016   #9
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Originally Posted by kxl View Post
But an SLR???
Nah! It's all a hoax. Leica are into this typ notation now, M10 is never going to happen. I bet the next S has wi-fi though.

On a side note, I wonder if all interchangeable lens cameras are lumped as SLRs to the FCC?
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Old 11-11-2016   #10
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Interesting. I look forward to seeing what Leica offers when it comes to product announcement time.

That said, I don't think I'll be buying anything anytime soon. My Leica M-D typ 262 is as perfect an M as I need or want, and my Leica SL typ 601 is my "do anything system camera".

G
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Old 11-11-2016   #11
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Don't like the look of the silver lens mount ring on a black finish body... Will probably have to pay extra for the 'P' variant to get it in black.

I'm sure people will complain it's still not thin enough. Looks like it might 'only' be a few mm reduction. I'm also not keen of the look of the ISO dial over the viewfinder. Feels a bit tacked on, IMO.
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Old 11-12-2016   #12
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Leica if you can keep it under 600 grams with M6 thickness, take my money now.

Actually I'm a fan of that "film rewind" dial -- although I wonder if it's actually ISO or EV compensation. I can see justifications for either, although if there is a back scroll wheel a la Canon for exposure compensation, a dedicated ISO dial on the top would be quite handy.

I'm okay with chrome like the M6 or 262 if that reduces heft, which I think should be a priority for the MX line with the classic genes. Perhaps go with the nice brass and full features (video etc) for the Typ XXX line, if that is indeed how Leica intends to fork its rangefinder products down the road, as some speculate.

I love my M9. It's 95% perfect. The 240 (or 262, which is more or less what I described above) is 99% there, but if they can trim down the size to M6 dimensions, put in the Q sensor with EVF functionality back in it would be just the perfect, timeless digital M. It would last me, and I suspect many RFF members, a lifetime. I simply don't lust after 30 MP, 20 stops dynamic range and 1 million ISO. Don't feel drawn to that game. Come on Leica, we're almost there.

If they can deliver that I would probably buy two M10s and Leica might as well call it a day on the M and work on other product lines!
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Old 11-12-2016   #13
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Genuinely interested for the thickness alone.

Kinda hope the dial on top is for exposure compensation...
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Old 11-12-2016   #14
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How much difference do you think there is vs. the current mount protrusion? And is this enough for the thickness crowd?
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Old 11-12-2016   #15
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What M10 are we talking about? Stephen's or the rumoured Leica one?

It seems that Leica has found a subtle way to scupper his quest
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Old 11-12-2016   #16
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Leica disregarding the laws of physics...
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Old 11-12-2016   #17
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Leica disregarding the laws of physics...
Haha! I know, what magic! Perhaps next they'll break the speed of light. Physics!
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Old 11-12-2016   #18
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Why would the viewfinder stick out like that ?
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Old 11-12-2016   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferider View Post
Why would the viewfinder stick out like that ?
If you look at the M240 from below the viewfinder sticks out a bit too and here it seems to be slightly more. They probably didn't want to redesign the whole rangefinder mechanism.
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Old 11-12-2016   #20
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wow! finally a digital M as thin as the M2/3/4/6 it seems .. good idea moving the flange like this to achieve the clearance for the sensor thickness!
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Old 11-12-2016   #21
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Originally Posted by tom.w.bn View Post
If you look at the M240 from below the viewfinder sticks out a bit too and here it seems to be slightly more. They probably didn't want to redesign the whole rangefinder mechanism.
Exactly. And the reason the framelever is positioned so strangely.
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Old 11-12-2016   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelwj View Post
Nah! It's all a hoax. Leica are into this typ notation now, M10 is never going to happen. I bet the next S has wi-fi though.

On a side note, I wonder if all interchangeable lens cameras are lumped as SLRs to the FCC?
The M10 on the photo might be a hoax but Leica did file for a product (FCC# N5A3656), and it does say Medium format SLR -- THAT comes directly form the FCC website.
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Old 11-12-2016   #23
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The ubiquity of lens mount adapters of every sort makes the slightly extended flange of the new M seem like not such a big deal.
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Old 11-12-2016   #24
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So maybe Leica is planning a mirrorless medium format camera to compete with the new Fuji/Hasselblad offerings? Or possibly just an update to the S line.
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Old 11-12-2016   #25
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Why would Leica go back to numbers in camera names?
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Old 11-12-2016   #26
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Body Appears thinner. The extruded lens flange shows this and also implies the image is genuine.

If it's a fake image, somebody knows this would have to be the case.

If this is true, it's going to boost sales considerably.
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Old 11-12-2016   #27
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Why would Leica go back to numbers in camera names?
Why not? A rose by any other name...
It's their baby, they name it.
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Old 11-13-2016   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kxl View Post
The M10 on the photo might be a hoax but Leica did file for a product (FCC# N5A3656), and it does say Medium format SLR -- THAT comes directly form the FCC website.
If the photo (the bottom plate one) is a fake, the new product may be S line.

But if the photo is real, then the SLR part is obviously a mistake. Have previous M bodies been called SLR by FCC?

Anyway, medium format would probably mean that Leica has put that new CMOSIS sensor in there. That would be pretty interesting. While the sensor may be slightly too large for M (I did not check any facts), this may at least allow for various aspect ratios with as much sensor area as possible, potentially driven by 6-bit coding for a lens-specific selection. Leica must have at least toyed with such ideas in their research department. Of course, various digital corrections may also be done, but so far the M line in-camera fixes have been rather minimal concentrating only on the vignetting and colour shift issues.
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Old 11-13-2016   #29
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How much bigger than FF is the sensor? Maybe it could be used to emulate a digital RFF with visible area outside the 'frame lines'?
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Old 11-13-2016   #30
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Without more, I don't think it being a few mm thinner will have hoards of existing Leica digital owners abandoning their existing cameras in favor of the M10, nor do I see it tipping the balance in favor of those sitting on the fence about acquiring a digital M.
You may be right, but just as the cumulative improvements and additions in the Nikon D810 resulted in many D800 being traded in, Leica hopefully has addressed small issues with the M240, such as start-up time, body thickness (check), weight, improved ISO/DR, return of preview lever, direct ISO control, LV refresh rates, video performance, improved handling (bigger buttons and relocating that rear "LV" button somewhere else). Maybe Leica has added features such as sensor cleaner, 4K, Solitaire, Facebook, espresso maker, laser gun, etc. I'm keeping my mind open, but my wallet closed (for now).
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Old 11-13-2016   #31
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Genuinely interested for the thickness alone.

Kinda hope the dial on top is for exposure compensation...
I hope it is an ISO dial. I think that exposure compensation should be on the thumbwheel so that you can focus with your left hand and simultaneously adjust exposure with your right hand.
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Old 11-13-2016   #32
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Without more, I don't think it being a few mm thinner will have hoards of existing Leica digital owners abandoning their existing cameras in favor of the M10, nor do I see it tipping the balance in favor of those sitting on the fence about acquiring a digital M.
I disagree

I never heard of "hoards" of Leica users, in any context.

A thinner, lighter body would be attractive to many, I know that. Look at how the Barnack lives on. Why?

Smaller, if well designed, and equally powerful, is better

Now, I'm shooting a loaner Sony Rx1r2 alot right now, and it's tiny, and it makes unbelievable images. I'll never buy one though, because the design is so unfriendly, in so many ways. Smaller is not always "better", but done right....
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Old 11-14-2016   #33
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The extended lens-mount flange will annoy some people. I think it is an interesting and useful compromise way to make the body thinner.

You can have either a thicker body or an extended lens flange... but you have to pick one.

The total distance remains constant and is mandated by the 27.80 mm flange focal distance (a.k.a lens register) of the circa 1954 M mount.
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Old 11-14-2016   #34
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While the sensor may be slightly too large for M (I did not check any facts), this may at least allow for various aspect ratios with as much sensor area as possible, potentially driven by 6-bit coding for a lens-specific selection.
Ok, checked the CMOSIS sensor size. It's not that much bigger at 36.43mm x 27.62mm, but it would at least allow for an improved square mode over any standard fullframe sensor. There may be a small advantage for various other crops, too, where the 6-bit coding could be utilized if they wish to push it.

Rethinking of the frameline masks or even the projection solution may also be needed to provide a good user experience.
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Old 11-14-2016   #35
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I hope it makes the fat models a lot cheaper...
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Old 11-14-2016   #36
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The M10 on the photo might be a hoax but Leica did file for a product (FCC# N5A3656), and it does say Medium format SLR -- THAT comes directly form the FCC website.
Hm, even the photo is from there, https:// fccid. io/img.php?id=3193280&img=bg1.png :

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Old 11-14-2016   #37
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I hope it makes the fat models a lot cheaper...
What message are we sending our children when the old and the fat are depreciated in favor of the young and slim?
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Old 11-14-2016   #38
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What message are we sending our children when the old and the fat are depreciated in favor of the young and slim?
It's the middle aged and healthy vs. the young and skinny.

Lately I had an M6 again in my hands and found the M240 to be just perfect in size.
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Old 11-14-2016   #39
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What message are we sending our children when the old and the fat are depreciated in favor of the young and slim?
The same message "we" have always sent!
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Leica M240 aka Leica M10, M-P, M60
Old 11-14-2016   #40
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Leica M240 aka Leica M10, M-P, M60

Its great to see Leica following RFF's lead and finally getting back to naming their M cameras properly LOL

More seriously it is very encouraging to see Leica finally bringing out what could be an M240 update.

I look forward to seeing the updates and improvements.

Stephen
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