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Leica M -- Leica CL / Minolta CLE This forum is about all things Leica CL and Minolta CLE, remarkable compact M cameras

View Poll Results: Leica CL or Canon P as back up to M2
Leica CL 10 37.04%
Canon P 17 62.96%
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Different beasts CL or Canon P
Old 10-12-2016   #1
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Different beasts CL or Canon P

I am in the market for a second rangefinder body to run b&W when l have colour loaded in my M2 and/or vice versa. I know they are different beasts but l have the chance of either a CL body or a Canon P. The lenses l have for the M2 are LTM thread with M adapters. Both cameras are in good nick, the money l have in my pocket, (birthday cash), is burning a hole, (GAS attack). which would you choose
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Old 10-12-2016   #2
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The P is larger and better built. The CL may have a working meter. I prefer the handling of the P but if you would like a meter and don't mind the small size of the CL it may be nice to have a meter for color film. On the other hand if you are already good about using a handheld meter or guessing exposure go with the P.
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Old 10-12-2016   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radi(c)al_cam View Post
That's easy!

My brain says «Canon P», my belly says «Leica CL».

many thanks, l feel the same way
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Old 10-12-2016   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superultramega View Post
The P is larger and better built. The CL may have a working meter. I prefer the handling of the P but if you would like a meter and don't mind the small size of the CL it may be nice to have a meter for color film. On the other hand if you are already good about using a handheld meter or guessing exposure go with the P.
many thanks for your wise and insightful words... l have a few things to mull over
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Old 10-12-2016   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radi(c)al_cam View Post
That's easy!

My brain says «Canon P», my belly says «Leica CL».

+1

Plus, while your glass is all LTM, swapping lenses between LTM and M takes longer.

CL.

B2 (;->
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Old 10-12-2016   #6
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None of the two, but second M two.
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Old 10-12-2016   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBingham2 View Post
+1

Plus, while your glass is all LTM, swapping lenses between LTM and M takes longer.

CL.

B2 (;->
many thanks
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Old 10-12-2016   #8
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
None of the two, but second M two.
if only I had the money for a second M2
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Old 10-12-2016   #9
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Originally Posted by lxmike View Post
if only I had the money for a second M2
I don't think money is the problem. Waiting and saving is.
Seriously, don't waste it on CL or P. Wait, save and do what GW and HCB did, two of the same.
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Old 10-12-2016   #10
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I would use two M bodies if a back-up camera is needed.
On the other hand, I used to own two CL cameras, but I sold them. I still own three Canon P cameras. (chrome, black,olive green)
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Old 10-12-2016   #11
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Quote:
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I would use two M bodies if a back-up camera is needed.
On the other hand, I used to own two CL cameras, but I sold them. I still own three Canon P cameras. (chrome, black,olive green)
three O's together l bet that would make a great picture
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Old 10-12-2016   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I don't think money is the problem. Waiting and saving is.
Seriously, don't waste it on CL or P. Wait, save and do what GW and HCB did, two of the same.
two M2 sounds so nice
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Old 10-12-2016   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radi(c)al_cam View Post
Hm. Here in Austria the prices for a Leica CL (e.g., year: 1975, condition: A/B) and a Leica M2 chrome (2nd model, year: 1966, condition: B-, e.g.) are quite the same: EUR 550 for the CL, EUR 590 for the M2.

l have seen a P at a great price
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Old 10-12-2016   #14
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The Leica CL rewind knob is located on the camera bottom.
For this reason alone I would not consider purchasing one.

The viewfinder of the Canon P is barely usable with a 35mm focal length lens.
However it is otherwise an excellent camera.

Chris
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Old 10-12-2016   #15
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Canon P has 1:1 finder that works well for 50mm and less well with other focal lengths.
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Old 10-12-2016   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superultramega View Post
Canon P has 1:1 finder that works well for 50mm and less well with other focal lengths.
L mainly use 50mm
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Old 10-12-2016   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPlatt View Post
The Leica CL rewind knob is located on the camera bottom.
For this reason alone I would not consider purchasing one... Chris
Hi,

You only rewind once per film and the position of the rewind knob means that you can feel it going round when you wind on which is very re-assuring to some; it's just a matter of holding it to find the rewind knob and once you get into the habit it's second nature.

Two M2's sounds a good idea, ditto two CL's. Best to have both metered or both un-metered IMO. And the CL's meter is particularly good.

Regards, David

PS As for the CL's meter failing, this is the internet and when one fails they all get condemned...
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Old 10-12-2016   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPlatt View Post
The Leica CL rewind knob is located on the camera bottom.
For this reason alone I would not consider purchasing one.

The viewfinder of the Canon P is barely usable with a 35mm focal length lens.
However it is otherwise an excellent camera.

Chris

yeah l could keep a 35mm on my m2 and a 50mm on a P
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Old 10-12-2016   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
Hi,

You only rewind once per film and the position of the rewind knob means that you can feel it going round when you wind on which is very re-assuring to some; it's just a matter of holding it to find the rewind knob and once you get into the habit it's second nature.

Two M2's sounds a good idea, ditto two CL's. Best to have both metered or both un-metered IMO. And the CL's meter is particularly good.

Regards, David

PS As for the CL's meter failing, this is the internet and when one fails they all get condemned...

hi David thanks for replying.. l now have a lot of food for thought
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Old 10-12-2016   #20
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I think Ko has the correct answer. I honestly think you would be happiest to save the $$ and get another M in a while, rather than settle for something that seems adequate now, just because it seems exciting to get another camera now. I say this as someone who has travelled that road.

Now, here in the western US, a CL (non-working meter) runs about $250 and a working, clean M2 starts around $500+, so I understand the hurdle that seems to present. But, for those of us who are not particularly wealthy, but enjoy the Leica M, its a matter of delayed gratification. I've saved for all my Leica gear, each piece, ever since I was in my teens (18 to be precise).

And, deals come along. Save and watch. You'll be rewarded.

If you insist on buying one of the 2 stated choices: I'd select the CL. Lenses will move between the M2 and CL without effort. That's a big deal to me. The CL works just fine, but I find it too small. I have one and I almost never use it because of handling. I like small cameras, but something about the CL layout, along with its size, makes it unpleasant to use. I'm forever unlocking the lens when I hold the thing.
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Old 10-12-2016   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfaspen View Post
I think Ko has the correct answer. I honestly think you would be happiest to save the $$ and get another M in a while, rather than settle for something that seems adequate now, just because it seems exciting to get another camera now. I say this as someone who has travelled that road.

Now, here in the western US, a CL (non-working meter) runs about $250 and a working, clean M2 starts around $500+, so I understand the hurdle that seems to present. But, for those of us who are not particularly wealthy, but enjoy the Leica M, its a matter of delayed gratification. I've saved for all my Leica gear, each piece, ever since I was in my teens (18 to be precise).

And, deals come along. Save and watch. You'll be rewarded.

If you insist on buying one of the 2 stated choices: I'd select the CL. Lenses will move between the M2 and CL without effort. That's a big deal to me. The CL works just fine, but I find it too small. I have one and I almost never use it because of handling. I like small cameras, but something about the CL layout, along with its size, makes it unpleasant to use. I'm forever unlocking the lens when I hold the thing.

many many thanks for the reply, very helpful
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Old 10-12-2016   #22
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PS. Internet aside. I have yet to encounter a CL with a genuinely working meter.

My CL's meter is active, but erratic and wrong, even with the correct Hg battery. I've encountered a few more with moving needles, but most are dead. I'm sure there's a few out there with good accurate meters. Its just which one are you likely to find, and will it actually be a good meter, and for how long? My opinion is the odds are against you there. That said, the remainder of the CL is a solid meterless camera.
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Old 10-12-2016   #23
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I am a 40mm fan so CL all the way for me. CL has a less cluttered viewfinder with a clear rangefinder patch compared to the fuzzy blob of the P. The 50mm frame lines are very nice, so if you are a 50mm and 28mm shooter, its a good option. I also like its size, you can put it and the M2 in a smaller bag.
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Old 10-12-2016   #24
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Personally, I prefer the CL. Get a good one and it will be a great first or second body. Sherry Krauter and Don Goldberg seem to have plenty of parts and continue to service them, if that's a question.

G
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Old 10-12-2016   #25
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Viewfinder in the CL is a delight. I use mine almost exclusively with a 50mm, whereas with the older RFs I shoot mainly with wide angles (and auxiliary viewfinders) because they're so hard to see with. Not so with the CL. Did I mention I like the viewfinder of the CL? I do.
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Old 10-12-2016   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfaspen View Post
PS. Internet aside. I have yet to encounter a CL with a genuinely working meter.

My CL's meter is active, but erratic and wrong, even with the correct Hg battery. I've encountered a few more with moving needles, but most are dead. I'm sure there's a few out there with good accurate meters. Its just which one are you likely to find, and will it actually be a good meter, and for how long? My opinion is the odds are against you there. That said, the remainder of the CL is a solid meterless camera.
good point, l always use a sekonic l208 anyway
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Old 10-12-2016   #27
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I am a 40mm fan so CL all the way for me. CL has a less cluttered viewfinder with a clear rangefinder patch compared to the fuzzy blob of the P. The 50mm frame lines are very nice, so if you are a 50mm and 28mm shooter, its a good option. I also like its size, you can put it and the M2 in a smaller bag.

l like 40mm too, has any one got or used the voigtlander 40mm 1.4
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Old 10-12-2016   #28
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Personally, I prefer the CL. Get a good one and it will be a great first or second body. Sherry Krauter and Don Goldberg seem to have plenty of parts and continue to service them, if that's a question.

G
l am not so worried about the meter as l used a hand held meter, are Sherry and Don based in the USA
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Old 10-12-2016   #29
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Viewfinder in the CL is a delight. I use mine almost exclusively with a 50mm, whereas with the older RFs I shoot mainly with wide angles (and auxiliary viewfinders) because they're so hard to see with. Not so with the CL. Did I mention I like the viewfinder of the CL? I do.
what 50mm do you use on your CL, what frame lines doe a fifty bring up on the CL
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Old 10-12-2016   #30
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The CL is a cute camera and it works well with slower 50s (CV 50/2.5, Summicron or similar). But with your 50/1.4 a Canon P would be much more fun for me to use, 1:1 finder, better focusing accuracy, and historically appropriate

In contrast to Ko.Fe. above, if you have a couple of additional dollars, I recommend to by an M3 however. M2 + M3 are a great combo.

Roland.
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Old 10-12-2016   #31
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The CL is a cute camera and it works well with slower 50s (CV 50/2.5, Summicron or similar). But with your 50/1.4 a Canon P would be much more fun for me to use, 1:1 finder, better focusing accuracy, and historically appropriate

In contrast to Ko.Fe. above, if you have a couple of additional dollars, I recommend to by an M3 however. M2 + M3 are a great combo.

Roland.
I have two fifties, a Canon LM 50/1.4 and a 5cm LTM Elmar
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Old 10-12-2016   #32
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The CL is a cute camera and it works well with slower 50s (CV 50/2.5, Summicron or similar). But with your 50/1.4 a Canon P would be much more fun for me to use, 1:1 finder, better focusing accuracy, and historically appropriate

In contrast to Ko.Fe. above, if you have a couple of additional dollars, I recommend to by an M3 however. M2 + M3 are a great combo.

Roland.
Dear Roland,

I really wouldn't bother with an M3, purely because I like 35mm lenses. I've had M3s, and sold them. But I still have my first M2...

I'll go along with those who say, "Save, and buy another M2".

Cheers,

R.
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Old 10-12-2016   #33
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what 50mm do you use on your CL, what frame lines doe a fifty bring up on the CL
50mm brings up the 50 framelines.... I use my Jupiter-8 and Konica M-Hexanon 50mm about half and half, with occasional use of my Canon and Nikkor LTM 50s also.
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Old 10-12-2016   #34
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I have two fifties, a Canon LM 50/1.4 and a 5cm LTM Elmar
Well, there you go: the Elmar won't collapse into the CL but do fine on the Canon P.

Besides, the "Bauhaus Leica" (Canon P) is such a pretty camera

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Old 10-12-2016   #35
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l am not so worried about the meter as l used a hand held meter, are Sherry and Don based in the USA
The meter cell is on a mechanical arm that is linked to shutter operation. Even if the meter is not functional (and it can be disabled), the arm must work correctly for the shutter to function correctly. It's a minor point, but good to know about.

Yes, Don Goldberg and Sherry Krauter are both US based Leica specialists.

G
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Old 10-12-2016   #36
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50mm brings up the 50 framelines.... I use my Jupiter-8 and Konica M-Hexanon 50mm about half and half, with occasional use of my Canon and Nikkor LTM 50s also.
many thnks for the info
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Old 10-12-2016   #37
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Dear Roland,

I really wouldn't bother with an M3, purely because I like 35mm lenses. I've had M3s, and sold them. But I still have my first M2...

I'll go along with those who say, "Save, and buy another M2".

Cheers,

R.
many thanks for the advice Roger
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Old 10-12-2016   #38
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Well, there you go: the Elmar won't collapse into the CL but do fine on the Canon P.

Besides, the "Bauhaus Leica" (Canon P) is such a pretty camera

it certainly is pretty
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Old 10-12-2016   #39
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The meter cell is on a mechanical arm that is linked to shutter operation. Even if the meter is not functional (and it can be disabled), the arm must work correctly for the shutter to function correctly. It's a minor point, but good to know about.

Yes, Don Goldberg and Sherry Krauter are both US based Leica specialists.

G
are there any recommended Leica repair specialists in the UK
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Old 10-12-2016   #40
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Haven't had a Leica CL, but a have a Minolta CLE, which is similar.

I like my Canon P way better. With its Canon 50mm lens it's a dream combination, and with a Voigtländer 21mm or a Ricoh 28mm I use it with auxiliary viewfinders and zone focussing. Feels and works great.

There is one potential catch, though. You can use screw mount lenses on m-mount cameras (with adaptors) but not the other way round.

Probably you should also consider the Bessa R2, R3 or R4. They should not be more expensive than a good CL.
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